Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Cutie Gwen]

I still want Black Mage for Final Fantasy.

Or Yuna/A Summoner.

I just want someone who is a very extensive magic user in Smash in the traditional sense.

Sure, Zelda's all magic attacks, but I think you all know what I mean.

Time for another Fire Emblem character, though this time, magic only

 

[ChikoLad]

SomecallmeJohnny is doing another Sonic stream for Extra Life, with Kirbopher on it, so if you need some background noise, it's a good time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvjuB6akToE

 

[Champ Gold]

Time for another Fire Emblem character, though this time, magic only

That was so insulting to . You owe them an apology. NOW

 

[Luigi The President]

I'll say it every time; Eggman is an awesome choice for our first villain 3rd party rep and in my opinion the ideal 2nd Sonic rep. I'd love to see him in Smash 5.

 

[Chrono.]

Full mage character?

Spoiler

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That was so insulting to . You owe them an apology. NOW

I said 'magic only' for a reason. They still have swords

 

[ChikoLad]

Doesn't Rosalina count as a full mage character?

Literally all of her moves have some kind of magical type thing going on.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So ya, makin' Corrin my wiafu.

Uhhhhh context?


Also the best magic character is a "black mage"

Spoiler

Spoiler

*laughs maniacally*

 

[Aetheri]

lol...Ike Climbers confirmed guys...

Spoiler

 

[ChikoLad]

lol...Ike Climbers confirmed guys...

Spoiler

We need Nana & Popo coats as an alt for Ike when modding kicks off more.

 

[Spazzy_D]

No Moai.

0/10.

And don't tell me he can't work.
DreamMix TV World Fighters exists.

He was on our list, but didn't make the final cut. Got to save some characters for the sequel.

 

[Luigi The President]

Also, there is one thing about Chief that I see people get messed up on a lot. Reasonbly so.

Chief's not 100 percent Microsoft console exclusive. He's been in iOS games. So has every other character in the world by this point but it's a point

 

[Spazzy_D]

Doom Guy in Smash would legitimately make me excited. Can you imagine his stage?

 

[Schnee117]

Chief's not 100 percent Microsoft console exclusive. He's been in iOS games. So has every other character in the world by this point but it's a point

No. Chief isn't the star of those games.
Spartan Assault had Sarah Palmer and Edward Davis.
Spartan Strike was a War Master Spartan filling in for ODSTs.

 

[Burruni]

Rayman: I feel like he's the Inkling of the third parties.

I'm sorry...
But I don't get the connection.
Inklings are a fresh new IP from the company behind the game which has been a MASSIVE system seller; breaking 5 million copies and is a really creative change to a somewhat stagnating genre that has had utterly massive hype behind it and a LARGE international fanbase.
Rayman isn't new, has never been a system seller, had little that was revolutionary for platformers, and has never had the raw backing for any individual game that we've seen with Splatoon.

Edit: Barring leaks; Rayman's had no real power in Smash speculation. You can definitely say that Inklings have, though.

Also, there is one thing about Chief that I see people get messed up on a lot. Reasonbly so.

Chief's not 100 percent Microsoft console exclusive. He's been in iOS games. So has every other character in the world by this point but it's a point

No. His SERIES isn't exclusive to consoles.
But he's a Microsoft-owned character that has never been on a console or handheld that Microsoft doesn't own. He's 1st Party Microsoft and THAT is the nail in his coffin as far as people see.

Until we see Mario on the Xbone or Cheif on NX, I wouldn't be swaying on that.

 

[Dustination]

Or PC.

Most likely PC if it's going to come to one other platform. SE are putting a lot on PC, FFXV has already been confirmed for PC.

http://www.gamepur.com/news/21551-final-fantasy-xv-not-coming-pc-square-enix.html

There are rumors but as of right now, no, it has not been confirmed for PC.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

**** it, getting Advance Wars

 

[Burruni]

**** it, getting Advance Wars

Enjoy your Fire Emblem with expendable units.

(Advance Wars for 3DS when)

 

[Coricus]

He was on our list, but didn't make the final cut. Got to save some characters for the sequel.

Yeah, like Axel Gear, Axel Gear, Axel Gear, and Axel Gear.

Did I mention Axel Gear?

 

[Spazzy_D]

Yeah, like Axel Gear, Axel Gear, Axel Gear, and Axel Gear.

Did I mention Axel Gear?

So you're saying you want us to consider Axel Gear?

 

[Coricus]

So you're saying you want us to consider Axel Gear?

Hey, maybe (definitely) it's bias, but he IS a recurring antagonist.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm sorry...
But I don't get the connection.
Inklings are a fresh new IP from the company behind the game which has been a MASSIVE system seller; breaking 5 million copies and is a really creative change to a somewhat stagnating genre that has had utterly massive hype behind it and a LARGE international fanbase.
Rayman isn't new, has never been a system seller, had little that was revolutionary for platformers, and has never had the raw backing for any individual game that we've seen with Splatoon.



No. His SERIES isn't exclusive to consoles.
But he's a Microsoft-owned character that has never been on a console or handheld that Microsoft doesn't own. He's 1st Party Microsoft and THAT is the nail in his coffin as far as people see.

Until we see Mario on the Xbone or Cheif on NX, I wouldn't be swaying on that.

Rayman completely upped the ante in animation not just for platformers, but for gaming in general. The original Rayman had it's character sprites and backgrounds drawn by professional French animators, something that was unheard of at the time. And even to this day, Rayman still serves as the pinnacle of 2D animation in gaming, with Origins and Legends looking literally just like a modern cartoon and moving painting respectively. No other franchise touches Rayman in 2D animation quality for the in-game graphics, it's literally Rayman's "thing". This is far more revolutionary and noteworthy a thing than most Smash characters and potential Smash characters can have a claim to.

And what do you mean by "raw backing"? Sales? Because the first Rayman game sold over 10 million copies alone. And the franchises sales are in the same range as Mega Man's, and even beats franchises like Kingdom Hearts, Uncharted, and Animal Crossing.

When I say "Rayman is the Inkling of third parties", I mean he's that one third party without a playable rep that can be agreed whom A) has his foot in the door already, having some representation in Smash. The only other one is Commander Video but he only has one trophy as opposed to 3 Rayman trophies. And B) Rayman did have a surge in popularity over the course of Smash 4 speculation, but maybe too late for him to get in the game proper, like Inklings.

You cannot make a reasonable argument for any other third party being in as good a position as he is for the next Smash (except for maybe a second Sonic/Mega Man/etc character), just like how you cannot make a reasonable argument for any other Nintendo character being in as good a position as the Inklings for the next Smash.

Also lol at implying Rayman doesn't have a large international fanbase. Inklings may have one, but Rayman has a far bigger one. Again, his franchise is around the same level as Mega Man's franchise sales (it's a bit behind, but it was ahead until recently. They are generally always around the same level).

Also Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan.

 

[Champ Gold]

I said 'magic only' for a reason. They still have swords

Yeah but their swords are full magic aside from the Bronze Sword. (Levin Sword has Thunder Magic attached to it and has a small projectile effect with his DSmash.)

Jab Attack uses Magic (Wind Tomes and Fire Tomes)
Grab and Pummel uses Magic (Somewhat dark magic)

 

[Spazzy_D]

Hey, maybe (definitely) it's bias, but he IS a recurring antagonist.

Our thought process going into this was that we wanted a balanced and diverse roster that represented Konami well. We figured most of the smaller franchises would only get one rep as this is the first game in this hypothetical series. The only franchises that ended up getting multiple reps this go around were Metal Gear, Bomberman, Contra, and Castlevania.

Most of our "cuts" either came from us looking between various secondary reps for medium to large franchies or series being considered but not added. Momotaro Densetsu, Gradius, Bloody Roar, Bayou Billy, Vandal Hearts, Azure Dreams, Air Zonk, Neutopia, Zone of the Enders, Rakugakids, Getsu Fūma Den, Milon’s Secret Castle, Star Soldier, Dewey's Adventure and other were looked at but not chosen, for example.

Axel is totally the sort of character you add in Konami Brawl.

 

[Coricus]

Are we discussing something about the current characters not being "magic enough?" . . .Eh. I don't really see the point of adding a full mage just to add a full mage. If you do it solely for that reason, you'll likely end up with a super bland moveset.

You have to cite a full or nearly full list of possible useable spells complete with small ability descriptions before my attention will hold. You can't just use Firaga/Thundaga/Blizzaga and their lower/higher equivalents and be done because TBH that'd be boring, and a lot of other spells are either really niche in application or really hard to actually balance if you can balance them at all. I mean, if you want to clone Witch Time I guess you can use Slow, and the Final Smash can be Meteor or something, but since I'm not a FF buff I don't know what most of the interesting spells are.

 

[Wolfie557]

It's almost like every DLC 3rd party character was chosen to say "screw your arbitrary rules speculation people"

Ryu: More than one per company
Cloud: They don't have to be heavily associated with Nintendo (or buddies with Sakurai for the "Snake doesn't count because..." crowd)
Bayonetta: Your opinions are not reflective the general public's.

And I loved the ride with this. Seeing all the fan rules break one by one was as delicious as floor ice cream!

 

[Coricus]

Our thought process going into this was that we wanted a balanced and diverse roster that represented Konami well. We figured most of the smaller franchises would only get one rep as this is the first game in this hypothetical series. The only franchises that ended up getting multiple reps this go around were Metal Gear, Bomberman, Contra, and Castlevania.

Most of our "cuts" either came from us looking between various secondary reps for medium to large franchies or series being considered but not added. Momotaro Densetsu, Gradius, Bloody Roar, Bayou Billy, Vandal Hearts, Azure Dreams, Air Zonk, Neutopia, Zone of the Enders, Rakugakids, Getsu Fūma Den, Milon’s Secret Castle, Star Soldier, Dewey's Adventure and other were looked at but not chosen, for example.

Axel is totally the sort of character you add in Konami Brawl.

Well he IS basically Konami , (I.E. recurring character from relatively small but not impossibly small franchise that crops up constantly across the storyline basically to mess with you) so I'm OK with this.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Well he IS basically Konami , (I.E. recurring character from relatively small but not impossibly small franchise that crops up constantly across the storyline basically to mess with you) so I'm OK with this.

I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE CALLING AXEL A CLONE!

 

[Shroob]

Uhhhhh context?


Also the best magic character is a "black mage"

Spoiler

Spoiler

*laughs maniacally*

Context? Who needs it?

 

[Schnee117]

Well he IS basically Konami , (I.E. recurring character from relatively small but not impossibly small franchise that crops up constantly across the storyline basically to mess with you) so I'm OK with this.

Even though he'd be cut in the fourth game?

 

[Luigi The President]

And I loved the ride with this. Seeing all the fan rules break one by one was as delicious as floor ice cream!

Not trying to get confrontational here but you said Chief can't be in because of a fan rule of your own.

 

[Coricus]

Even though he'd be cut in the fourth game?

And then EVERYONE WOULD LOVE HIM.

 

[Wolfie557]

Not trying to get confrontational here but you said Chief can't be in because of a fan rule of your own.

Didn't say he can't, said he shouldn't because it makes no business sense to me.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Well he IS basically Konami , (I.E. recurring character from relatively small but not impossibly small franchise that crops up constantly across the storyline basically to mess with you) so I'm OK with this.

Color swap three is kind of a tribute to him as of now:

Oh, for those of you that didn't click the link, we did actually create a full 8 color swaps for each character. Here's some more:

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/06/dream-roster-konami/

 

[ChikoLad]

Wolfie557

You may tear them apart with your superior knowledge of Bayonetta trivia.

 

[Chrono.]

Wolfie557

You may tear them apart with your superior knowledge of Bayonetta trivia.

I saw people pointing out how the Eggman reference was wrong.

Wonder what else is. lol

 

[Spazzy_D]

I saw people pointing out how the Eggman reference was wrong.

Wonder what else is. lol

That was fellow Source Gaming staffer @Nirbion. SG and DYKG are not currently the best of friends. Which is a shame, because all we really want are hugs.

 

[Luigi The President]

SourceGaming needs to be the new DYKG. Not only are they super nice, unlike what I hear about the DYKG guy, they're just about always right.

 

[Z25]

So, thought I would share this as a fun change of pace. New article written by Nantendo, @TheAnvil, and myself. This is what our Konami Fighting game dream roster would look like. Coming soon to a Pachinko parlor near you!

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/06/dream-roster-konami/

Frogger gets you an automatic win... But the pachinko makes makes sad...

Full mage character?

Spoiler

I was going to say anything but black mage is wrong ,but I could accept this.

SourceGaming needs to be the new DYKG. Not only are they super nice, unlike what I hear about the DYKG guy, they're just about always right.

DYKG is done by a different person each video, unless your referring to whoever runs the site, in which case I don't know much about them. I agree with SG being the new DYKG as they always know their facts right!

 

[Dravidian]

The difference though is that Bayonetta is a 3D action game, functions very differently to a 2D fighter.

Kat's moveset came first as far as how it all works in 2D.

The diferences aren't that great. There's actually pretty similar, especially considering that PSAS plays more like an action platformer than a traditional fighting game. A 3D plane can be interpreted as an infinite amount of 2D planes. And combat between the character and target occurs more or less on a 2D plane; changing targets simply changes the 2D plane you're playing on. The main differences are that movements/attacks also exist on the z-axis and that camera angles and object scaling to to distance have a greater effect on perception since the player view is no longer orthogonal.

But at the base 3D action and 2D action are really similar.

I don't think they really copied each other. But Smash Bayonetta's resemblance to PS All-Stars Kat is an uncanny one.

This I agree with, though. The moves they use aren't that original. Bayonetta borrowed a good bit from Dante. There's a a ton of functional overlap with a coat of aesthetic changes. Kat borrowed elements from other games as well. And even if they didn't, they only share a few moves.