Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[AreJay25]

The first Backroom Tier List is out http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/

Thoughts?

Feel like they should have waited, since the next update is in 2 days...

On the placings themselves, can't say I disagree with most of them. Though, I'd honestly place Duck Hunt a little lower.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why the **** would you realese a tier list literally two days before a balance patch that adds two characters?

 

[ChikoLad]

The first Backroom Tier List is out http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/

Thoughts?

I'm glad Rosalina is in S Tier still. I've seen a lot of people underrate her lately. While I believe she is the character in the game with the best potential, she's heavily underutilised for how good she is and lacks the player base of Sheik and ZSS. This is all due to the fact that she's such an unorthodox character that shouldn't rely on one play style. Sheik and ZSS, while they can do a variety of things, they both rely a lot on the typical rushdown combo game so heavily, and that's just really the most popular play style, in part because it's "Melee-like". So while I think Rosalina has the potential to be the top spot, I don't think we are going to see a player rise up to really show her stuff. And ZeRo and Nairo are just better than Dabuz, flat out. So I think Rosalina's placement is actually perfect.

In general I actually pretty much agree with it. The only thing I'll say is that Cloud being ranked at all feels forced. He's only been out for a month and a half, I think he shouldn't be placed yet.

There's a few characters I WOULD disagree with if I went with general raw potential and nothing else (e.g Pac-Man), but since this is heavily results and match-up based (e.g. Pac-Man doesn't see a lot of top play, and he gets **** on by Rosalina, according to most. Not sure I agree but I can see it), I think it's fair.

 

[Burruni]

>tfw low tier mains

**** it, I guess I should drop them for Cloud. Atleast it's not as bad as Ganon and Zelda mains. That's just TOO much suffering

Also Palutena not in the bottom 3 is BS m8

(Mostly) Low Tier Hero represent.

 

[AreJay25]

Wait, I didn't even notice Mii Brawler's placement

Wtf

 

[Wolfie557]

The first Backroom Tier List is out http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/

Thoughts?

hold up.


How the hell is DDD so low?! wut. Impossibru!

Also way too early for a tier list...

 

[wedl!!]

Slack has more functionality than Discord in some places and in others it doesn't.

For Discord there's voice chat and integration with separate servers. Slack, however, provides far more customization, allowing you to pick the color scheme, make emotes, pin content, etc.

Pick whichever you prefer.

Also I'm not gonna touch the tier list for now because this isn't a thread for competitive. Plus I'm still thinking about my opinions of it (Pikachu is mad overrated though).

 

[Champ Gold]

(Mostly) Low Tier Hero represent.

We will stay strong against the high tier menace

Don't you main Zero Suit Samus[/spoiler]






.....Damn it

 

[Burruni]

hold up.


How the hell is DDD so low?! wut. Impossibru!

Also way too early for a tier list...

He lost his ability to chain grab and the movement from Waddle Gliding which I believe were his two biggest tools in Brawl where he was mid-high.
He's pretty easy to combo with a predictable recovery with most of his major means of killing being sluggish?
I don't know by any means but I can kinda get the mentality behind it.

 

[SuperMii3D]

I play all types of Miis. I feel criticized....

I hope Corrin gets put in at least a B. He certainly looks like hell be tricky to deal with.

 

[Solfiner]

Oh and I disagree with having S-J as tiers. It should just be S-G at the most.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Placements confuse me.

Especially , like he got **** on, like wtf.

 

[PK_Wonder]

Why the **** would you realese a tier list literally two days before a balance patch that adds two characters?

100% this.

Is there any reason for it to exist other than to ignite controversy? What a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Fenriraga]

The first Backroom Tier List is out http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/

Thoughts?

All seems about right to me. Feel like they should have just waited till the Corrinetta patch to do this, but that's why I'm not a backroomer. :V

It all seems to check out. Stinks that is as low as he is but it's understandable why.

Just don't forget guys.... this is literally for the HIGHEST OF THE HIGH levels of competitive play. Don't let any of it deter you from your current characters! It's also only the first revision, with patches not done yet.

 

[Wolfie557]

I main

With as secondaries.

I plan to main/secondary & main .

 

[Con0rrrr]

"Too Early for a Tier List".

The games been out over a year guys. Its fine.

I get thinking its weird since we are getting our final patch in two days. But this is something to look back at. It's the state of Smash 4 right now.

Also, I absolutely love people who get so upset at tier lists. They're usually a pretty good source for viability, especially when it comes from a solid group of people.

Like, chill out. You don't have to follow the tier list to find a main. You think your character is better than what the tier list says? Go get the results in tournament and prove it.

 

[Wolfie557]

He lost his ability to chain grab and the movement from Waddle Gliding which I believe were his two biggest tools in Brawl where he was mid-high.
He's pretty easy to combo with a predictable recovery with most of his major means of killing being sluggish?
I don't know by any means but I can kinda get the mentality behind it.

Well I don't get the practicality of it. DDD is middle tier imo.

 

[Burruni]

Like...
Legitimately
Why would be bottom tier again?
Yes. She's got her normal Jiggs problems of being light as hell and slow on the ground.
But where the game's got a heavy aspect of off-stage edge guarding (since the change of ledge physics) and rest being good but not great in this game (alongside back air killing ~120% on mid weights last I really looked).
I've not focused that hard on competitive play for this game because of college but like what?
Have shields being "weaker" in this game been THAT big of an issue?

Edit: Also her lack of weight ironically gets her OUT of a number of follow ups particularly from throws that work on most of the cast... coupled with her high air speed to achieve such.

I don't truly know; just it's a shock to see THAT low.

 

[SuperMii3D]

"Too Early for a Tier List".

The games been out over a year guys. Its fine.

I get thinking its weird since we are getting our final patch in two days. But this is something to look back at. It's the state of Smash 4 right now.

Also, I absolutely love people who get so upset at tier lists. They're usually a pretty good source for viability, especially when it comes from a solid group of people.

Like, chill out. You don't have to follow the tier list to find a main. You think your character is better than what the tier list says? Go get the results in tournament and prove it.

Patch comes out in 2 days. The list gets messed with.

Also, Id prove the Miis worth in a tournament.

But the tournament organizers never let me

 

[A Distant Demon]

Like...
Legitimately
Why would be bottom tier again?
Yes. She's got her normal Jiggs problems of being light as hell and slow on the ground.
But where the game's got a heavy aspect of off-stage edge guarding (since the change of ledge physics) and rest being good but not great in this game (alongside back air killing ~120% on mid weights last I really looked).
I've not focused that hard on competitive play for this game because of college but like what?
Have shields being "weaker" in this game been THAT big of an issue?

hard to use that offstage game if you can never approach lol.




Reminder that most of us don't go to tournaments and play competitively and have no real knowledge of how strong the roster is

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You know what really grinds my gears

People that have to slow down to 10 MPH to go around ANY sort of minor curve

But tailgate you if you aren't going 45 MPH in a 30 MPH road

 

[wedl!!]

DDD blows haaaaard. Awful mobility + horrible frame data + lack of real confirms + combo food + forced to approach despite being **** at it= death sentence in S4 meta.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Patch comes out in 2 days. The list gets messed with.

Also, Id prove the Miis worth in a tournament.

But the tournament organizers never let me

Then get your scene to organize to allow Miis to be legal.

I literally mentioned in my post that its fine when it gets messed up in 2 days. This is something to look back at.

I just get very annoyed with people constantly complaining when they dont ever try and do something about it.

 

[Champ Gold]

I still going by my belief that Palutena is the worst character in the game.

Puff has off-stage advantages and while Zelda and Dorf don't have the results, they can still have some use.

Palutena has the massive issue of that she's too dependent on customs, awful frame data and just overall bad moves.

Also I think Samus should get sent up the tiers a bit, she's actually a lot better than what most make her out to be

 

[AreJay25]

It's so weird seeing Falco in a low tier.

Do something about that Sakurai, please. I want good lasers, dammit.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I used to main Dedede in Brawl, but I haven't really liked him in Smash 4

But, that may just be partially because I liked having my waddle dee's and Bowser Jr kind of fills that gap for me

 

[Fenriraga]

It's so weird seeing Falco in a low tier.

Do something about that Sakurai, please. I want good lasers, dammit.

Look at the bright side. At least he isn't pre-patch Falco.

*Shudder*

 

[A Distant Demon]

It's so weird seeing Falco in a low tier.

Do something about that Sakurai, please. I want good lasers, dammit.

This was the game I decided to use my favorite character in smash.* (I had previously though playing a high tier makes you a loser. I blame Brawl Taunts)

This was not the game to do that >_>



*before Cloud

 

[Ivander]

I:
J:


****ing bull****

I have a big feeling that their placement is based on what people think of them in general compared to how good they are, cause the Brawler and Gunner are FAR from bottom by my experience with them.

 

[Chrono.]

Dark Pit is still in the middle-ish as always so I'm fine lmao

Though this is the first time I've seen him ranked above Pit.

That side-b buff is just too good.

 

[Opossum]

Plus, I honestly think releasing it two days before a patch is a cool thing to do. You get to see how much of a difference one patch makes by the next list.

 

[Das Koopa]

>tfw low tier mains

**** it, I guess I should drop them for Cloud. Atleast it's not as bad as Ganon and Zelda mains. That's just TOO much suffering

Also Palutena not in the bottom 3 is BS m8

She's nowhere near as bad as the Ganondorf/Puff/Zelda trio.

I disagree with a lot of things on this Tier List, truth be told, and I strongly disagree with releasing it now of all times; Why would you release this before we get the last DLC? I'd wait till' the Summer of Smash/TBH6 is done.

 

[Champ Gold]

It's so weird seeing Falco in a low tier.

Do something about that Sakurai, please. I want good lasers, dammit.

I feel like a buff to his jab, a stronger down Smash, better throw options and just don't feel sluggish in the air will benefit him greatly

 

[ChikoLad]

If we're doing our characters:

The ones I would feel confident entering a real tournament with:
(I play Sonic more but I feel like I do more consistently well with Mario. Sonic is usually "I win looking like a pro or lose looking like a newbie")

The ones I could probably use as pockets, I can definitely do well with them in friendlies:


Potential other pockets if I play them more, they're characters I definitely have fun with and "feel right" for me. There are others too but these are the top 5:


With Cloud, I think he could actually replace Mario for me. He fills a similar niche for me.

I've also been outright told by numerous people that my Rosalina is tournament worthy so that helps. One of them was an extremly talented Bowser player here in Ireland, probably the best Bowser in the country, and one of the overall best Smash 4 players.

And no, my "tournament ready" mains are not all top-high tier on purpose. Rosalina is self-explanatory. Sonic was my main in Brawl and he wasn't high tier there. And Mario just feels real fun to play in this game, and fit like a glove. I also had the Special Demo of Smash 3DS and practiced a lot with him and Mega Man there.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

My only real problem with it is the fact that lucas is so low when he's at least (going by their tiers) a D-tier character.Also i argue villager and cloud spots as well as robin being better than kirby or robin.But whatcha gonna do

 

[Fenriraga]

Guys, I'm gonna be honest here.

without Helicopter Kick is honestly not that great at all.

The tier list is going purely by their 1111 moves just like , and of course the development team chose the WORST moves for their defaults. Brawler is nearly levels of bad with his recovery.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Let me guess, another BS tier list was released by someone?

 

[Das Koopa]

Let me guess, another BS tier list was released by someone?

The official tier list

I wouldn't call it BS. It's mostly accurate with a few problems here-and-there, I think most people have a problem with the timing of the list.

 

[Fenriraga]

Let me guess, another BS tier list was released by someone?

If by BS and someone you mean the official backroom, then sure. :V

 

[wedl!!]

Palutena is actually a bag of good moves (all her aerials, Dash Attack, Jab mainly) that don't function in tandem. She has invinciblity there, huge damage here, good poke there. But overall it's kind of bleh. Not worst character but still not good.

Ganondorf is a bundle of amazing moves barring Jab, grab, and Utilt. It's just on a horrendous character, which is why he sucks so hard. Falcon's moves except far slower and lacking the knot that ties Falcon together (mobility) does not a good character make. Not to mention he gets bodied by pretty much every good character for many reasons.

Zelda is legitimately the most dysfunctional character in the whole game and I cannot understand why people don't see it. She has like... a handful of good moves (Utilt, Dtilt, Dsmash, Up-B) compounded onto a zoner who can't zone. An approaching Zelda is common sight and it's bad. Her options in the neutral are so limited against the top echelon of characters that she basically doesn't have one. Her advantage is... ok. She can kill with reads. She has quite a few combos. And her disadvantage state is... pretty bad. No reliable landing options on top of being hilariously easy to juggle/kill? Yea ok, see ya. Her recovery is fairly great, though.

If these characters were to be changed:
Palutena: Jab buffs, vanilla specials buffed barring Warp, other than that IDK

Ganondorf: Kill throw, 50/50 setups off a throw. Slight mobility buff? Like very slight.

Zelda: Din's no longer causes freefall in the air; Phantom charge can be held; Jab speed increased; Fair/Bair buffs

There's stuff I'm missing but as far as basics go this should work.