Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Strofirko]

Now people are speculating about some random tweet again,gr8!

 

[A Distant Demon]

So how long until the character boards reopen and the madness starts all over again

 

[memoryman3]

Another Daisy talk?

I begin to think that it was a good idea to erase my Daisy Mii in the past.
Really, it's really boring now. Buttercup are better than Daisy anyway.

I'm sure that Daisy would have been much more well received than any of the clone trio if she was added...

 

[ChikoLad]

why you talk about paper mario while i miss it?

I think rosalina and luma are likely to be paperised. Remember that TTYD had piantas

As for spm design, i really love the cubic design. A cube is a simple shape and looks kinda fun to play with so I liked to have the thibess of paper being combined with cubes

I personally don't see Rosalina showing up in Paper Mario, at least not to a very noteworthy degree. Lumas are more likely though.

The reason I think this is because of Koizumi's strictness with the character (and to a lesser degree, Miyamoto's apprehensiveness to the character).

You'll notice that EVERY appearance Rosalina has made since Galaxy 2 has been completely without story context (or at least her appearance specifically is, like her being a post-game unlockable in 3D World for no real explained reason in the story. Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker didn't even elaborate on it either, despite it being a prequel to 3D World). People often say that "Nintendo doesn't care about the integrity of the character's story because they put her in everything", due to the "she only comes near the Mushroom Kingdom every 100 years" plot point in Galaxy. However, Nintendo have actually NEVER broken this rule. Rosalina only ever appears without context, and usually in scenarios where every other character does too. Games like Mario Kart, Mario Party, Smash Bros, etc, have no story or real context for the characters being there. Everyone is just there because they are ensemble games that let you play as these characters for the sake of it.

However, this is not the case with the RPGs (both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi). The RPGs have stories, and every character has a context for being there. As such, they can't (or at least, shouldn't) break that rule they set for Rosalina. While Rosalina had context for being there in Galaxy 2, Mario went out into deep space himself and ran into her, rather than her going near the Mushroom Kingdom. While they could theoretically do this just fine in an RPG game, that means they have to have a good reason for Mario to go to deep space to begin with. Which I see as an unlikely scenario (Super Paper Mario did it but unfortunately, that game started development long before Rosalina was a thing).

So yeah, I don't think Rosalina has a possible role as a major, plot-important, or even side, character in any RPG game due to the circumstances of her character.

At most, I can see:
-Her showing up at the climax of the game provided the game builds up to something like the fate of the universe hanging in the balance, and is a crucial part of saving the day since she's effectively god in the Mario universe.
-Her being the host of some kind of post game content, like an arena of super bosses linking to "warriors and monsters from across the cosmos", with her possibly being the final super boss herself.
-Brief cameo or mention as part of a random gag.
-Appearing as one of her Cosmic Spirits to aid Mario in some fashion.
-Non-canon amiibo functionality, similar to the Fire Emblem characters in Codename STEAM.

Granted, I think of the two RPG series, I think Paper Mario is more likely to utilise her due to the fact the Paper Mario universe is more lenient with relevance to the main series (i.e. it takes more liberties, such as there being good Koopas and Goombas). But I'm not counting on it. And hey, that's fine, I don't need her to appear in everything.

 

[Deleted member]

So how long until the character boards reopen and the madness starts all over again

It will probably never end until... Actually, nevermind, it won't ever, even if the series were to end completely.

 

[Burruni]

These games...don't really focus on the plot too much, otherwise the Snowmad or Tiki Tong would be a definite shoo in.

I'm still surprised that he isn't in Mario Kart yet.

Except that they're one-off villains, Lord Frederik is the name of the Snowmad Leader, and Tiki Tong is another damn "Hands + Face" Boss so if we were going to get one of those it'd be Andross if anything.

And the DKC games had some of the best dialogue and plot writing of anything first party Nintendo produced around the time.
Not to mention DK 64 having an overarching plot that actually had multiple cutscenes detailing it throughout while Super Mario 64 had just the intro and outro...

And, if we're gonna go by any stretches of logic.

Daisy gets just a crown for Mii gear. K. Rool gets an entire kostume. Look who's got the better love in smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just realized something. Sakurai is contradictory. Wario's Shoulder Barge was changed because 'I can't make EVERYTHING canon' yet in the Ridley article he says 'I want the characters to be as accurate as possible'. What the actual ****? That was the ONLY thing from Wario Land!

 

[Fenriraga]

I think a Sprixie would actually make for an interesting party member in a Paper Mario game. Or a Luma.

Please make a proper Paper Mario again...

 

[Bedoop]

reddit.com/r/mario

(Oh hi Memoryman)
Follow the link
http://memoryman3.tumblr.com/post/138098374469/rumour-daisy-in-the-new-paper-mario-game (Oh Hi memoryman. Again.)
Follow that link
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-wii-u/73183710
Follow THAT link
https://i.gyazo.com/20ae8b87a3f621cad7f8f1c1dfded473.png
Absolutely nothing about Wario, Waluigi or Daisy at all
I feel like I'm on a wild goose chase here

 

[memoryman3]

Except that they're one-off villains, Lord Frederik is the name of the Snowmad Leader, and Tiki Tong is another damn "Hands + Face" Boss so if we were going to get one of those it'd be Andross if anything.

And the DKC games had some of the best dialogue and plot writing of anything first party Nintendo produced around the time.
Not to mention DK 64 having an overarching plot that actually had multiple cutscenes detailing it throughout while Super Mario 64 had just the intro and outro...

And, if we're gonna go by any stretches of logic.

Daisy gets just a crown for Mii gear. K. Rool gets an entire kostume. Look who's got the better love in smash.

Err...

Peach's second outfit.

Daisy Mii hat.

4 trophies.

A Smash Tour Item...

reddit.com/r/mario
View attachment 94132 (Oh hi Memoryman)
Follow the link
http://memoryman3.tumblr.com/post/138098374469/rumour-daisy-in-the-new-paper-mario-game (Oh Hi memoryman. Again.)
Follow that link
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-wii-u/73183710
Follow THAT link
https://i.gyazo.com/20ae8b87a3f621cad7f8f1c1dfded473.png
Absolutely nothing about Wario, Waluigi or Daisy at all
I feel like I'm on a wild goose chase here

Read on a few pages...

 

[Metal Shop X]

I'm sure that Daisy would have been much more well received than any of the clone trio if she was added...

She would have been clone.
No, i don't say she don't have anything for a unique moveset.
I said just that Sakurai would have probably made her just a clone because it would have been more fast and easy to make.
Just like , and we're made.
Anyway, Daisy will never be in Smash as a playable character. A recolor and a trophy are enough for her.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I ain't ready to go through another toxic speculation phase, especially if the rumor is true AND it's an entirely new game and not a port for the Wii U Smash.

If it's a new game, you have the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases all over again, both possibly angrier if Sakurai is back on board. And then literally every other fanbase begins the echo chamber anew. We go back to thinking [character] is a shoo in(because that's worked SO WELL for us) and [character] is impossible because reasons. Expectations subverted, salt produced, cycle repeats.

Sigh.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I just realized something. Sakurai is contradictory. Wario's Shoulder Barge was changed because 'I can't make EVERYTHING canon' yet in the Ridley article he says 'I want the characters to be as accurate as possible'. What the actual ****? That was the ONLY thing from Wario Land!

There is a difference between adhering to canon and making absolutely everything canon.
Sakurai wanted to buff Wario so he did something to improve the game. His plan was foolish but still innocent.


BTW any other things leaker bro was a part of leaking? I can never remember these people and how credible they are.

 

[memoryman3]

Anyway, Daisy will never be in Smash as a playable character. A recolor and a trophy are enough for her.

Well I still believe in her! In fact, I'll bet that she'll get in playable next game! We're running out of major Mario characters - plus Daisy doesn't seem like the type who would stand around watching the battle

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There is a difference between adhering to canon and making absolutely everything canon.
Sakurai wanted to buff Wario so he did something to improve the game. His plan was foolish but still innocent.


BTW any other things leaker bro was a part of leaking? I can never remember these people and how credible they are.

To keep Wario canon he removed his most iconic thing from his canon. That's what bugs me. I LOVED the shoulder barge before knowing Wario had his own games

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Apart from being really wrong about many factors and characters, there are many reasons why I'm not ready go go back to character speculation.

When the time does inevitably come again I'll merely be hanging back in the dark and pop my head in on occasion to say a few things about maybe, like, one or two different subjects. I decided a long time ago to not actively or heavily participate in speculation again.

 

[PushDustIn]

Personally, I trust Dr. Serkan Toto. He has a lot of connections in the video game industry, and is based in Tokyo where Bandai Namco is located.

Oh ****, not this again.

PushDustIn : You guys apparently retweeted this person, do you have anything to say about this at all?

I might take a break after DLC is released, so I can refresh myself for the next cycle.

 

[Burruni]

Well I still believe in her! In fact, I'll bet that she'll get in playable next game! We're running out of major Mario characters!

Besides the fact that 's very justification by Sakurai says that the uniqueness of a character exceeds the series they are from.

Captain Toad, Waluigi, and Paper Mario still stand well before her.

 

[Fenriraga]

I sincerely doubt it's an entirely new game, especially not so soon after Wii U. Sakurai did say he may make an "Ultimate" Smash Bros with all the DLC on the next system at one point, and I doubt Sakurai would be okay with putting exclusive characters on it with how adamant he was with keeping the Roster the same between Wii U and 3DS.

Either way the rumor really isn't worth getting fussy about yet. It really has no merit.

 

[ChikoLad]

If it turns out it is a new game, the only characters I will support (quietly, I might draw up movesets at most to contribute to the fandoms of the characters in a positive way) are:

-Captain Toad
-Henry Fleming
-Rayman
-Sora
-Professor Layton
-Shovel Knight

Pretty much those. Don't really mind whatever else they do. Bringing back Wolf and Ice Climbers would be nice too.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Well I still believe in her! In fact, I'll bet that she'll get in playable next game! We're running out of major Mario characters!

Dafuq?...

Please, you're logic doesn't make sense.
First: Another Smash game is going to be else, very long before it happen or just never.
Second: Do you see the number of Mario character? It's like the franchise with the most character in all Smash game!
Lastly: Please, stop talking about her. Thing will be better for you.

 

[memoryman3]

Besides the fact that 's very justification by Sakurai says that the uniqueness of a character exceeds the series they are from.

Captain Toad, Waluigi, and Paper Mario still stand well before her.

Daisy can be unique if they choose to pull from her flower and crystal powers (hinted at in Mario Party and Strikers).

Plus, I don't think that they'll add 3 Mario's before we get all of the core cast...

 

[A Distant Demon]

To keep Wario canon he removed from canon.

No? He explicitly says e isn't trying to keep canon

He made Ridley as canon as possible as he believed he could. Based on the existence of that weird goop proves he doesn't stay strictly to canon.

He wanted to make Wario better. For him, game balance > canon.

Daisy can be unique if they choose to pull from her flower and crystal powers (hinted at in Mario Party and Strikers).

Plus, I don't think that they'll add 3 Mario's before we get all of the core cast...

Paper Mario is far more important to Mario as a whole than Daisy.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ugh.

Smash NX.

Launch Title.

Rumors.

 

[Naoshi]

Also Smash Bros 5 not having a new Mario character won't be unheard of. Brawl didn't have any new Mario characters, and no, Wario and Diddy Kong don't count because they represent completely different games.

Daisy can be unique if they choose to pull from her flower and crystal powers (hinted at in Mario Party and Strikers).

Plus, I don't think that they'll add 3 Mario's before we get all of the core cast...

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are the core cast. Not Daisy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No? He explicitly says e isn't trying to keep canon

He made Ridley as canon as possible as he believed he could. Based on the existence of that weird goop proves he doesn't stay strictly to canon.

He wanted to make Wario better. For him, game balance > canon.

This isn't about Ridley, I only mentioned him because the quote was about that specific article. It was a nerf, not to mention other aspects could have been rebalanced

 

[Schnee117]

No? He explicitly says e isn't trying to keep canon

He made Ridley as canon as possible as he believed he could. Based on the existence of that weird goop proves he doesn't stay strictly to canon.

He wanted to make Wario better. For him, game balance > canon.


Paper Mario is far more important to Mario as a whole than Daisy.

So... buff the Shoulder Barge's stats so the reward is much greater then?

 

[Burruni]

Daisy can be unique if they choose to pull from her flower and crystal powers (hinted at in Mario Party and Strikers).

Plus, I don't think that they'll add 3 Mario's before we get all of the core cast...

Extrapolating a moveset from those HINTED powers is not an inherent uniqueness.
And we had the core cast in Melee.

THAT is the core cast of Mario.
's a rising star that's had proper playable roles.
are staple "Second-in-Command" antagonists under Bowser.

If anything, Toad is the one missing from an extended Core Cast due to being the staple seat-filler for a Slot 4.

 

[powerprotoman]

so heres my predictions if leak is real
every character comes back
1-5 "new" characters
all wiiu stages with 5-10 3ds stages
new ui
smash tour and smash run both return
boss battles mode returns
new classic mode is a mix of 3ds and wiiu
8 player smash no longer its own mode allways available can have special smash options on
trophy shop has more options to buy
all wiiu trophies+ 3ds trophies added(with beter resoultions)
custom moves can be bought in the trophy shop
all characters will have custom moves
target blast returns as does trophy rush
break the targets is brought back with the melee standard

again this is my predictions because if sakurai is doing anything he will do it excessivly its just how hes does things

 

[memoryman3]

Also Smash Bros 5 not having a new Mario character won't be unheard of. Brawl didn't have any new Mario characters, and no, Wario and Diddy Kong don't count because they represent completely different games.


Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are the core cast. Not Daisy.

The extended core Mario cast (excluding Boos and Koopas) according to Nintendo

 

[Burruni]

so heres my predictions if leak is real
every character comes back
1-5 "new" characters
all wiiu stages with 5-10 3ds stages
new ui
smash tour and smash run both return
boss battles mode returns
new classic mode is a mix of 3ds and wiiu
8 player smash no longer its own mode allways available can have special smash options on
trophy shop has more options to buy
all wiiu trophies+ 3ds trophies added(with beter resoultions)
custom moves can be bought in the trophy shop
all characters will have custom moves
target blast returns as does trophy rush
break the targets is brought back with the melee standard

again this is my predictions because if sakurai is doing anything he will do it excessivly its just how hes does things

>Boss Battles Returns.
So, Ridley, Yellow Devil, Metal Face, and then the full gauntlet of Master Core?

>Break the Targets for 58 characters.
I... Pipe dreams. I can't see it as anything less.

Edit:

The extended core Mario cast (excluding Boos and Koopas)

View attachment 94137

Excluding Boos & Koopas?
Then I'd expect to get Lakitu and Goomba in before Daisy as anything more than a clone.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Paper Mario is far more important to Mario as a whole than Daisy.

I like Daisy but pretty much everyone already in Smash to represent Mario is more important to Mario than her.

Toad, all of the recurring henchmen, etc are more important than Daisy.

 

[Solfiner]

I just realized something. Sakurai is contradictory. Wario's Shoulder Barge was changed because 'I can't make EVERYTHING canon' yet in the Ridley article he says 'I want the characters to be as accurate as possible'. What the actual ****? That was the ONLY thing from Wario Land!

Monado Jump and Smash still make my butt hurt

 

[memoryman3]

I like Daisy but pretty much everyone already in Smash to represent Mario is more important to Mario than her.

Toad, all of the recurring henchmen, etc are more important than Daisy.

I love how not getting kidnapped for 20+ years and being a fully playable character in various sports games makes you unimportant...

Well that's just Smash speculation for ya.

 

[Arcanir]

View attachment 94101
How do you even **** up something so simple?
Laslow looks like someone just hit their heads into a keyboard and called it a day
And why remove a single letter from Pieri to make the most awakward sounding name ever?

Because then we wouldn't have this:

I ain't ready to go through another toxic speculation phase, especially if the rumor is true AND it's an entirely new game and not a port for the Wii U Smash.

If it's a new game, you have the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases all over again, both possibly angrier if Sakurai is back on board. And then literally every other fanbase begins the echo chamber anew. We go back to thinking [character] is a shoo in(because that's worked SO WELL for us) and [character] is impossible because reasons. Expectations subverted, salt produced, cycle repeats.

Sigh.

I think the Ridley fanbase will be smaller for the next game if this rumor's true. Remember that Sakurai blatantly said "no" to the character and gave a reason why, it may be a controversial reason, but it's still a reason and many detractors are going to dangle that over the fanbase's head. Additionally, if the game's a launch title, it's coming out within the next year, which means that Ridley's situation wouldn't have changed unless Federation Force has a fun sized Ridley hidden somewhere. So him and his fanbase will likely be kept down compared to Brawl and 4 unless we get a Villager situation please.

As for speculation, I will admit that I'm concerned about some of the debates that will pop up, Fire Emblem and Pokémon in particular are not going to be pleasant if it's not a port since those have rotating casts.

 

[Burruni]

I love how not getting kidnapped for 20+ years and being a fully playable character in various sports games makes you unimportant...

Well that's just Smash speculation for ya.

Appearing in one mainline title as a Peach replacement and being barely anything more than a variant of Peach in the "festive" spinoffs makes you unimportant because you've not had an impact.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

In fact as much as I love Waluigi and Daisy I understand their spin-off cast and not important to the main line games at all.

If a spin-off must be represented it's probably best it's Paper Mario.

Paper Mario, Toad/Captain Toad, and a Koopa Troopa (They, Goomba and Boo are the most iconic Mario villains after Bowser himself after all) would be the ideal next Mario representatives to represent core games and the RPG spin-off.

I suppose Peach/Toad could cover the sports things in their movesets, but if not that's the only way Daisy/Waluigi is getting in right now. To represent them.

And obviously Sakurai thinks the Mario Kart items, Waluigi assist trophy, and Peach's references in her moveset to represent those spin-offs well enough.

 

[Zzuxon]

Daisy should be an alt.
Not because she doesn't have the potential to be unique, she definitely does. It's just that she is the only one who could be an alt.

If you made daisy a full character, then you couldn't make Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi etc. a playable character, you wouldn't have time. Then only Daisy fans get something.

But if you made Toad, Paper MArio, Waluigi, etc. a full character and Daisy an alt, then people who wanted both get something.

 

[memoryman3]

Appearing in one mainline title as a Peach replacement and being barely anything more than a variant of Peach in the "festive" spinoffs makes you unimportant because you've not had an impact.

At least the casual crowd can recognise her in the Mario series, which isn't true for a lot of characters inside and outside this game.

 

[Burruni]

At least the casual crowd can recognise her in the Mario series, which isn't true for a lot of characters inside and outside this game.

So.
Your evidence for her being likely.
Is something that doesn't apply for "a lot of characters inside this game."