Swag Halloween Mafia --- swag NEVER ends

[#HBC | ZoZo]

yeh

worst case scenario joker's town and it's xonar with that scummy ****ing distancing of "i can see gheb but he's not a priority and your case is weak"

also it got randomized. i was legitimately considering shooting you when you replaced in and dealing with gheb/xonar (those two were my other choices) but i didn't get it in in time and jimbo has obviously not been here.

Your case was weak, had strong points which you chose not to outline. Get over it skrub

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Your case was weak, had strong points which you chose not to outline. Get over it skrub

"i got nothing of value, laundry was right for the right reasons but i'mma devalue it"

k

 

[Ashemu]

zonar if you raed this be4 hammer can you explain orbo > joey

i mean i am leaning that way, but i remember on my initial read some interactions between joey/ryu made me paranoid about my joey townread

 

[Ashemu]

er, before the flip loll

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

zonar if you raed this be4 hammer can you explain orbo > joey

i mean i am leaning that way, but i remember on my initial read some interactions between joey/ryu made me paranoid about my joey townread

Joey's reaction to Gheb's stupid wagon **** was a townie PoV, as Kantrip accidentally outlined. Gheb's attitude of "a wagon is useless because scum is on it" doesn't make sense because scum is scumhunting all the time. Joey, however, did not realize this... which is a town PoV. The interaction between Ruy/Joey (with the dragons gif etc?) didn't exactly read as scum distancing to me. Outside of that, I see no reason to townread Orboknown at all... like, whatsoever. He's eternally null. Joey had a decent case on Gorf, even if it was a mislynch so I'm not holding it against him... then again, you can't give too many town points either as scum is trying to scumhunt. His jump on the wagon was pretty iffy as Joker pointed out but in retrospect I can see what Joey was trying (giving it the bad side in a bad or scum argument).
Basically at this point I'm also saying "If Orboknown played so bad to not make himself known as town and Joey played good enough to make me have a somewhat decent townread on him, I'm willing to give him the win". I'd recommend you not put too much value in this game, only 3 slots out of 12 in total were actually active, so giving a scumJoey the win is not a bad deal. Ofc I'd preferably endgame with you myself, but Laundry would rather shoot me because he can't read me for ****, I don't think anyone else really has a scumread on me, so idk. I mean there's not like there's pages of me trying to figure people out out there as well as my entire readlist with reasoning which you can link to my play in different phases of the game, if anything I'll enjoy telling him how bad he is after the game... and during the game, which brings me to the next quote :D

"i got nothing of value, laundry was right for the right reasons but i'mma devalue it"

k

at this point we're not even playing the game anymore, of course i'd take any opportunity to let you know you're a baddie mcscrub

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

ebwop: baddie mcscrub, you're a dead man anyway.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

So are you so stop mansplaining at me

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

For real: why shoot orbo. You keep saying he's eternally null but I want more than your words saying it. I want to see his posts and judge them for myself.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And before you say, "look at his posts," you're the one presenting the case here bub, not me. The burden of proof falls to you.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well the thing is that if we let me endgame that also means people townread me more than Joey, which I think won't happen. The easy way to solve this issue is to prove that I am more town than both of them, but I can hardly do that without suggesting you re-read and hope you can adjust your reads from there on.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Let me just say this much: Orboknown has done nothing. He has read and provided ****-for-reads. He never got his hands dirty. When I asked him to provide some reads he came up with nothing. He has consistently come up with nothing except for, as far as I recall, some standard reads at the end of his read of the game, without reasoning might I add. There's not much of a case to make, because Orboknown hasn't done much. He also hasn't pretended to do much, but him not even bothering when directly asked by me is the most worrying factor to me.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

For real: why shoot orbo. You keep saying he's eternally null but I want more than your words saying it. I want to see his posts and judge them for myself.

Missing the point bub

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nah an answer can be derived from my posts. You shoot Orboknown because I want to endgame (because I know my alignment is town), then lynch Joey. If I'm not the one going to endgame, there's no reason to shoot Orboknown.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You're also being an idiot expecting me to provide a case yet not wanting "just" my words. If you want a case, then ask for my words. If you want to see his posts and judge for yourself, then read his posts. What, you want me to quote all his posts just to remedy your laziness? Why did you sign up for a mafia game? There's a search function and you can limit it to this thread and search for all posts made by Orboknown. If you didn't catch on yet: a big part of my argument is him not doing anything. I can't exactly go around quoting stuff to prove the absence of something (which would lead to me quoting every single post of him and saying "see? there's nothing"), especially when you want to "judge for yourself". Hell, if you need quotes to prove that he hasn't done anything, isn't the point actually proven? I'd imagine you remember all the things he's done if he has been so busy and townie.

I remember being frustrated with you being dense before your claim, but come on dude. This is frustrating.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You're also being an idiot expecting me to provide a case yet not wanting "just" my words. If you want a case, then ask for my words. If you want to see his posts and judge for yourself, then read his posts. What, you want me to quote all his posts just to remedy your laziness? Why did you sign up for a mafia game? There's a search function and you can limit it to this thread and search for all posts made by Orboknown. If you didn't catch on yet: a big part of my argument is him not doing anything. I can't exactly go around quoting stuff to prove the absence of something (which would lead to me quoting every single post of him and saying "see? there's nothing"), especially when you want to "judge for yourself". Hell, if you need quotes to prove that he hasn't done anything, isn't the point actually proven? I'd imagine you remember all the things he's done if he has been so busy and townie.

I remember being frustrated with you being dense before your claim, but come on dude. This is frustrating.

What I want is reason to believe that he is scum and you are not. Why is he a worthwhile shot over you. I don't buy your words and so it is on you, being the one making claims that are different than at least two other people in this thread (ashemu, myself), to prove that he should be shot over you. When I don't buy what you're saying, that means going above and grabbing examples of what you're trying to say. Don't get salty that I'm putting the burden of proof on you, if you think it's so obvious that he's not doing anything, show me. You don't need to quote all his posts. Just show me enough for me to see that your conclusion is correct.

And no, my basis right now is to catch scum and him doing little of anything means nothing compared to Joker's play on a whole and your whack interaction with Gheb.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

'Sides, Joey can't be scum. Look at his treatment of my slot in comparison to his potential scummates. He said he was surprised I was actually Werewolf and that I had fooled him. I remember him saying he wouldn't lynch me even in D1. Why would he be in direct contrast to Ruy/Gheb, both of whom were hard on my wagon D2 and part of D1? Why wouldn't at least be looking for ways to put himself on that wagon? It doesn't make sense for a group in communication and working towards a goal. Joey legitimately cannot be scum.

So if Joker somehow flips town, it's you/Orbo. Given your weird stance around Gheb, I'm shooting you. Then Orbo dies after I do and congrats the game is over.

 

[Ashemu]

yea id kill zonar before orbo

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well in that case it doesn't matter in the first place, I'd never endgame with Ashemu if he himself doesn't townread me. I'm not about to reread this game a fifth time (even though only since Orbo joined) when nobody here bothers putting effort into it anyway.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

And no, my basis right now is to catch scum and him doing little of anything means nothing compared to Joker's play on a whole and your whack interaction with Gheb.

Let me just say this though; I have no idea how my interaction with Gheb equals scummy. It's literally my thought of him at the time and if it's out of place, then sure, call it scummy. Is it impossible or unlikely for a town to think that? No, not at all.
If you want to catch scum, then go figure out the game. You got a short right? Get a grip on the playerlist then. If you don't know where my read on Orbo comes from, try to figure it out. Maybe put some effort into this game, 'cause this time Ryker isn't here to do it for you.

 

[Ashemu]

if youre confident on your joey townread why does it matter who dies first between you/orbo ?_?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

if youre confident on your joey townread why does it matter who dies first between you/orbo ?_?

It doesn't. I'm also not entirely confident on my Joey town read, seeing as he only played 1 dayphase. This is about a hypothetical scenario in which I am to endgame with you instead of Joey.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Let me just say this though; I have no idea how my interaction with Gheb equals scummy. It's literally my thought of him at the time and if it's out of place, then sure, call it scummy. Is it impossible or unlikely for a town to think that? No, not at all.
If you want to catch scum, then go figure out the game. You got a short right? Get a grip on the playerlist then. If you don't know where my read on Orbo comes from, try to figure it out. Maybe put some effort into this game, 'cause this time Ryker isn't here to do it for you.

It's literally my thought of him at the time and if it's out of place, then sure, call it scummy

Took the words right outta my mouth.

"I find him scummy but he's just not a priority man."
"You're right on him but it's not for the right reasons so even though you're right and I even agree with you, it's a **** case and we're gonna look the other way."

Yeh, that's real outta place. Saying "but a townie can come to the conclusion" doesn't change the fact that it's grody as hell to say that even though you agree with my conclusion you're not gonna follow my case (on a now flipped scum) and instead try to throw all attention away from it. That's scummy as **** dood.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

"go figure out the game"
"ryker's not here to do the work for you"
"i don't need to show you quotes"
"listen and believe"
"educate urself"

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

if youre confident on your joey townread why does it matter who dies first between you/orbo ?_?

cause's he's trying to posture not to get shot by me so he can lynch me and endgame joey.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I did not throw attention away from it, neither did I whole heartedly agree with your conclusion. I agreed with some points of your case. You're painting it in a very bad light.

"I am concerned about him but he's not a priority." Is that strange coming from the guy who's been saying he was focused on getting Joker from post 1 that day onwards? If anything, it would be weird for me to go "oh right, let's forget all about Joker and focus on Gheb right now, based on a case which I mostly thought was weak!".

You got a problem with me telling you to figure out the playerlist or try to put in effort in a game you signed up for? You literally came into the game, spent the entirety of day1 arguing with Ryker, posted 1 page of posts on day2 only because you were about to get lynched, then came into day3 and claimed scum after a little pressure. God forbid you have to actually figure slots out.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

cause's he's trying to posture not to get shot by me so he can lynch me and endgame joey.

I can't endgame Joey, though. IF I was scum, I'd be endgaming Ashemu. J/s

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I can't endgame Joey, though. IF I was scum, I'd be endgaming Ashemu. J/s

"i'd endgame the confirmed cop instead of the one guy i could lynch"

pls

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

the last scum would lynch not-ashemu and then endgame Ashemu himself because equal scum and town numbers, lmao.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

why can't i search posts by members containing specific words

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

the last scum would lynch not-ashemu and then endgame Ashemu himself because equal scum and town numbers, lmao.

i used the wrong word. i meant get to lylo and lynch joey.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

why can't i search posts by members containing specific words

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I did not throw attention away from it, neither did I whole heartedly agree with your conclusion. I agreed with some points of your case. You're painting it in a very bad light.

Fine, let's let others judge it:

Re Gheb case: I agree that the switch on to Ruy was late. That's part of what you matched me on [in terms of scumread]. What I'm more concerned about is the way he just sat on Kantrip, but that also makes me think that IF he's scum, he doesn't have access over the nightkill. You mention that he hasn't made much effort to develop his read, which I think is actually something part of his playstyle in general that I do not like. He's been playing very judgmental, in that he judges slots but doesn't do much to get things out of them. He's very much "the observer", which is also the approach he's taking with me right now. I was fine ignoring that and waiting until later in the day where I could either catch him on another "easy" switch or await for him to actually give reasoning if he wanted to lynch me and get others to follow him. But yeah, that's more what worries me, him not actually getting his hands dirty, ya know?

Gheb I've just outlined. I feel like he's worth pressure but not a priority right now... which as I'm writing this I realize this has been my view of him since day1, which actually worries me. The issue with the points that I raised is that I remember Gheb has always played that way, armchair mafia, so it weighs less to me. I got my eyes on him, a wagon I can feel, a lynch I'm not sold on. The issue is that his playstyle lines up with that of a ccop.

"I am concerned about him but he's not a priority." Is that strange coming from the guy who's been saying he was focused on getting Joker from post 1 that day onwards? If anything, it would be weird for me to go "oh right, let's forget all about Joker and focus on Gheb right now, based on a case which I mostly thought was weak!".

Also not the truth, otherwise why would you come out swinging at me in D2? I don't recall much emphasis on Joker D1, you were definitely talking about one of Maven/Kantrip/Ruy albeit I cannot remember which of those three. Your real emphasis on that slot didn't start until D3 to my memory, but I didn't read much of D2. Either way, he was not your main priority then, why did he become one over a guy who was legitimately scum that you at least partially agreed with me and even saw your own reasons to believe he was legitimately scummy?

You got a problem with me telling you to figure out the playerlist or try to put in effort in a game you signed up for? You literally came into the game, spent the entirety of day1 arguing with Ryker, posted 1 page of posts on day2 only because you were about to get lynched, then came into day3 and claimed scum after a little pressure. God forbid you have to actually figure slots out.

No I have problems with you insinuating that I haven't done anything or come up with my own original ideas or things of that ilk. I have had little presence but I am, practically singlehandedly, about to destroy the entire scumteam and win this game for a faction that is not my own. Call me inactive but don't call me worthless.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And Ramses, before you write up a giant retort, remember this: you are not convincing a crowd here. You are not convincing anyone here but me. I am the one who decides whether you live or you die. I alone have sole power over your life in this game. If you believe you deserve this win, calling me useless and incapable of thinking for myself is not the right way of going about it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

"from post 1 that day onwards"

that day
day 3
day2 you were a priority
and day1 I did not play much and in the end followed the gorf lynch

so gheb was not a priority on all the days in which I actually played

I'm not saying you're worthless, I'm saying you're an asshole for signing up for a game and then when asked to put in effort forget it. Fine, forget it then. Like I said before, I don't care much about this game anymore, win or lose, exactly because others haven't given a ****. If you wanna get a surefire win for town, then properly research Orbo's slot, mine, and Joey's.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

And Ramses, before you write up a giant retort, remember this: you are not convincing a crowd here. You are not convincing anyone here but me. I am the one who decides whether you live or you die. I alone have sole power over your life in this game. If you believe you deserve this win, calling me useless and incapable of thinking for myself is not the right way of going about it.

Except you do not. After you shoot Orboknown, Joey and Ashemu will simply lynch me. The only reason I'm still arguing this is because I'm hoping you're better than this and hoping that this is a giant misunderstanding on your part.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

"from post 1 that day onwards"

that day
day 3
day2 you were a priority
and day1 I did not play much and in the end followed the gorf lynch

so gheb was not a priority on all the days in which I actually played

Let me also say that (together with you, though I think I suggested it first), I was one of the first to point out Gheb being scummy, and even there he was not a priority (as I mentioned in my read list).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

^that was day1

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Either way, he was not your main priority then, why did he become one over a guy who was legitimately scum that you at least partially agreed with me and even saw your own reasons to believe he was legitimately scummy?

If you still want an answer to this:
Joker became suspicious after re-framing his play in my mind, and at that point was already a priority over Gheb. I wanted to talk to you or Drew about it, but that didn't happen. Eventually I decided to take matters into my own hands, but you were a priority over Joker day2. Seeing as I wanted to feel you out some more, a Joker push day3 would've been a good measuring tool (for you and other slots too) as well as finally giving me that conversation with you about Joker I've been fishing for since day1. As I mentioned, I had somewhat of a trap for Gheb based on where he would go at the end of the day, and that was enough for me at the time.
Gheb not being a solid scum read was due to me agreeing with what Ryker said day1, Gheb did do some good things to redirect town's focus. Gheb was also active and I found myself agreeing with his posts pretty often. I.e. his thoughts on Kantrip or you, so an active player that I found myself agreeing with even if it's only sometimes. What reason would I have to prioritize Gheb over Joker or you?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

"from post 1 that day onwards"

that day
day 3
day2 you were a priority
and day1 I did not play much and in the end followed the gorf lynch

so gheb was not a priority on all the days in which I actually played

that point was about joker but thanks for proving it.

I'm not saying you're worthless, I'm saying you're an ******* for signing up for a game and then when asked to put in effort forget it. Fine, forget it then. Like I said before, I don't care much about this game anymore, win or lose, exactly because others haven't given a ****. If you wanna get a surefire win for town, then properly research Orbo's slot, mine, and Joey's.

i have done enough research based on flips to give me the information i need:

1. joey's stance on me is in direct contradiction to gheb/ruy and his actions supplement this->why would one scum completely contradict his mates and not help them if they were working in unison?
2. orbo is not contributing much->did the same **** in g3s xl->got shot, he flipped town->not repeating mistakes->shooting people who i think is scum because i am not a vig
3. when i had a case on a legit scummer with something to finally hang him on, you were quick to shoot it down->weird stance on gheb in general ("i think he's scummy but he's not a priority yet despite seeing all this scummy actions from him for reasons")->out of place reaction to my case->scummier over null
4. gheb pushes me all game->pushes ruy over me in start of d2->sought towncred after being faced with a shot->also did the same thing with you after ruy died->similar situations for likely the same reasons, gheb is liable to bus mates for towncredit too (see: tranq mafia)
5. i still think joker is more likely scum than you, you are just a fallback plan if he somehow is not.
6. ashemu is cop->town
7. i am werewolf->scum

i don't need to reread the thread five times looking for wording catches and **** to catch scum. all i need is an inch and ruy gave it to me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

that point was about joker but thanks for proving it.

That's what I was saying you dense ************. My priority day1 was nowhere, really. Day2 it was you. Day3 it was Joker. Never Gheb. Hence the following:
"I am concerned about him but he's not a priority." Is that strange coming from the guy who's been saying he was focused on getting Joker from post 1 [of day3] onwards? If anything, it would be weird for me to go "oh right, let's forget all about Joker and focus on Gheb right now, based on a case which I mostly thought was weak!".