Survival DI-ing with Samus

[LanceStern]

The MBB Survival Myth

I'm going to be brief. For a long time I thought the best way to use survival DI (particularly when hit horizontal diagonally up) was to hold up, uair and then jump and cancel it with the Morph Ball Bomb. I thought the MBB had bucket breaking type of properties.

Turns out I was wrong. For some reason the MBB puts you in the upper KO box range. I tested this by standing in the middle of FD at 89%. Snake uses an uncharged fsmash. If you try to uair -> MBB you die in the upper corner

The better and more commonly accepted method is hold up, uair and try to fastfall it, then as soon as possible jump and cancel the jump with dair.

It helps you survive longer.

P.S. ~ With that said, I may have been the only one who believed the MBB myth and everyone else was DIing correctly

Collecting Survival DI Data

What I would like to do is get the percentages that the opponents BEST KO moves KO Samus with DI and what's the best way to DI to survive from the center of final destination. That way we know what to avoid when we hit a certain percentage and how best to keep alive. You might even find some interesting things as well, like Snakes Utilt KOs in different directions depending on whether you're grounded or not (just like Samus' utilt).

Example:
(Name of the attack)
Best DIrection: Whats the best way to DI to survive the attack
with DI: Samus will survive at this percentage with DI. If you get over this percentage, your dead whether you DI or not... from the center of FD
without DI: Samus will die over this percentage if you don't DI at all

Snake

Uptilt (grounded)
----------------
Best DIrection: Hold analog stick TOWARD Snake, so you fly over his head.
with DI: 116%
without DI: 106

Snakes Uptilt (Samus in air)
------------------
Best DIrection: Hold analog stick away from Snake
with DI: 116%

Snakes FSmash (Uncharged)
------------------
Best DIrection: Hold analog stick TOWARD Snake (not in a diagonal. Directly to him). When in the air start doing the survival DI basics
with DI: 95%
without DI: 58%

Marth

Marth Fsmash
----------------
Best DIrection: Hold analog stick UP
with DI: 108%
None: 79%


You can help

I am a very busy person and it could take some time to get these numbers. If people could help test some of the most common KO attacks and send me the data that would be great. Plus in that busy-ness I can rush and get incorrect data.

Would that be useful or no? And could you help?

 

[NO-IDea]

I lol'ed at the MBB Myth. It does need to be said however.

USING ANY SPECIAL AFTER AERIALS REMOVES ANY MOMENTUM CANCELING PERFORMED.

The only exception to this rule are certain b-reversals (which havemomentum-resetting characteristics) (DK's side+B, Zelda's neutral B) and momentum-resetting moves (GW's down+b, Yoshi's side+b,) These moves don't lower or raise momentum, rather give it new values.

Otherwise, simply fast fall an u-air performed. N-air can be used an alternative. However, because n-air has longer ending frames, the time available to double jump and further cancel momentum is put off. Therefore, u-air is the better option.

With that said, if you're TDI'ing correctly (TDI encompasses DI and SDI,) you should naturally u-air after hitstun with your use of the C-stick. Momentum canceling is not a hard habit to get into. Obtaining the reflexes and knowledge (hence this thread) to DI correctly is what players need to do.

I love LanceStern's threads. We should remove the compendium on the front page (honestly, it's not very useful) and make a compendium of LanceStern's research threads. These are extremely useful and should be developed more by the community.

I've been inactive as of late. Need to raise my GPA (it's faltering below 3.3, which is really bad considering I want to leave graduate school as an option.) But WHEN I get the chance, I will contribute to your threads, Lance.

 

[Rhyme]

Is it possible that CS works better than either MBB or Uair->FF->jump?

 

[Sago]

Is it possible that CS works better than either MBB or Uair->FF->jump?

cant believe i didnt think of this. I might try to work with that later

 

[NO-IDea]

It's been tested. No =/

 

[LanceStern]

I thought about that one time Rhyme and Sago, what if we could B-reverse or turn-around B a plasma shot in midair? Cause the fully charged shot stops your horizontal momentum.

But I don't think it's fast enough

 

[Alfa]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=251039

So you can work out what kills earlier for some characters, save finding which moves are strongest.

Also:

G&W's Usmash uncharged kills at 85%, and sourspot Dsmash 88% (the invisible hitbox past the hammer). I'm in the middle of testing him at the moment.

You're welcome to use this idea if anyone wants to, or help me out on the Wario boards.

When you do Bowser, make sure to test his Fsmash with one and two hits hitting, and charged too, as Bowser as a quick and easy way of breaking shields, which I shall not divulge here. And shield breaks could happen anyway.

Hooray, more views on the thread.

 

[KillerJawz]

I noticed this in training mode a few months ago, I posted my findings in the Q&A thread but got no replies x.x.

Anyway, this is very useful, I'll do a few tests myself on some KO moves <3.