Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Patch 2.0.0 official balance changes

[Nekoo]

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

They did what was needed.
They removed the Chrombo.

But Chrom still have a "respect me" option off stage and won't get gimped for free.


That's the best of both worlds and both side.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They did what was needed.
They removed the Chrombo.

But Chrom still have a "respect me" option off stage and won't get gimped for free.


That's the best of both worlds and both side.

I disagree. I think he shouldn't be allowed to do Chromicide at all without losing his stock first. Unless Ganondorf and Bowser get the same option. As do the rest as well. All or nothing. He's getting special treatment in this regard and I think it's unfair. I also don't believe he's unbalanced even with the Chrombo in itself. They didn't nerf it well enough to remove the actual issue to begin with. It wasn't the fact it was easy either. That was more annoying. The issue is he got a free stock many many times essentially

So they almost had it right. Even the nerf of the Chrombo is arguably a good idea. They didn't fix the real crux of the issue at all. There is no reason the -icide moves shouldn't work for other characters, especially when they're blatantly worse like Ganondorf, who needs it to be remotely good. Bowser might be good enough without it, but Chrom is still pretty unfair design with it.

 

[Nekoo]

I disagree. I think he shouldn't be allowed to do Chromicide at all without losing his stock first. Unless Ganondorf and Bowser get the same option. As do the rest as well. All or nothing. He's getting special treatment in this regard and I think it's unfair. I also don't believe he's unbalanced even with the Chrombo in itself. They didn't nerf it well enough to remove the actual issue to begin with. It wasn't the fact it was easy either. That was more annoying. The issue is he got a free stock many many times essentially

So they almost had it right. Even the nerf of the Chrombo is arguably a good idea. They didn't fix the real crux of the issue at all. There is no reason the -icide moves shouldn't work for other characters, especially when they're blatantly worse like Ganondorf, who needs it to be remotely good. Bowser might be good enough without it, but Chrom is still pretty unfair design with it.

And so what? Chrom Should become Little Mac tiers with his recovery with free gimps with any back throw?

That's not how you balance a game either
Buff the rest. Don't nerf what's fine.

Chrombo was jank and dumb.

Chrom not being free off-stage and getting respected is not.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And so what? Chrom Should become Little Mac tiers with his recovery with free gimps with any back throw?

That's not how you balance a game either
Buff the rest. Don't nerf what's fine.

Chrombo was jank and dumb.

Chrom not being free off-stage and getting respected is not.

Chrom isn't free with Chromicide existing. He should not get that kind of win if nobody else can. Just making him die first does balance him. Nobody is getting free wins otherwise. He's very strong on stage. He's supposed to be weak off of it. That's a proper balance. Making him die first is enough. He honestly didn't need to lose the Chrombo either to achieve a good balance. At least then he is harder to gimp. Now he's too easy to gimp but also still can secure unfair wins.

Look, it's fine if you think this is better, but I don't. I do not believe any icides should be special among any characters. I already made that clear, but it's all or nothing to me. Maybe my balance won't work for others, but that's how I view it in these cases. That's what I consider a way to balance suicide moves properly. They should be the same for everyone. I am not asking you to agree, of course.

 

[Lanny]

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

I play a fair bit of Chrom and I wouldn't mind if it changed to Chrom-dies-first for consistency with other suicide attacks (I thought that's what this patch was but I guess not?) but I don't think it's really that bad. It doesn't seem all that hard to avoid, and most of the time where it kills a fair would as well which is a lot easier to land unless you're a 3+ jump character or have a very strong recovery.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I play a fair bit of Chrom and I wouldn't mind if it changed to Chrom-dies-first for consistency with other suicide attacks (I thought that's what this patch was but I guess not?) but I don't think it's really that bad. It doesn't seem all that hard to avoid, and most of the time where it kills a fair would as well which is a lot easier to land unless you're a 3+ jump character.

It's consistency I have an issue with, to be clear. I don't think any character should have that kind of advantage over another. I consider it unbalanced.

It's mainly on principle, though.

That said, I forget the details. Nekoo explained it last past how it works.

 

[Cosmic77]

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

Even though I completely agree with you, I kinda feel like they should leave it alone just so his terrible Up Special has some kind of advantage over Roy's.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even though I completely agree with you, I kinda feel like they should leave it alone just so his terrible Up Special has some kind of advantage over Roy's.

Just having him die first is fair. Or have Ganondorf and Bowser die second. Either works.

I don't want it lose its outright power, as he needs it. He just shouldn't get that kind of easy win when nobody else is allowed to. As I said before, I feel the icides should be consistent. Either they all have the character die first, or they die second. No exceptions.

 

[Momotsuki]

I like what they did with my boy Bowser.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I disagree. I think he shouldn't be allowed to do Chromicide at all without losing his stock first. Unless Ganondorf and Bowser get the same option. As do the rest as well. All or nothing. He's getting special treatment in this regard and I think it's unfair. I also don't believe he's unbalanced even with the Chrombo in itself. They didn't nerf it well enough to remove the actual issue to begin with. It wasn't the fact it was easy either. That was more annoying. The issue is he got a free stock many many times essentially

So they almost had it right. Even the nerf of the Chrombo is arguably a good idea. They didn't fix the real crux of the issue at all. There is no reason the -icide moves shouldn't work for other characters, especially when they're blatantly worse like Ganondorf, who needs it to be remotely good. Bowser might be good enough without it, but Chrom is still pretty unfair design with it.

Well, they nerfed it. The Chromicide Chrombo is no longer a thing. It's only an issue for people who tierpicked Chrom.

Also they nerfed IC's desync again which is going to make them even worse

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

Honestly Chromicide is BS. It should be all or nothing, yo're right.

Edit: Sorry double post, got hit by storm, internet is bust rn.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So is this where I say that all my attacks, jumps, and run speed feel faster?

On a serious note, has anybody figured out what "vulnerability" means in these notes? My only thought is cooldown here, but I'd like to have a solid idea what was changed.

 

[FartyParty]

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

Ike should die first too with Aether-cide

 

[Deleted member]

Oh sweet, Incineroar's recovery was improved a little bit. Apparently the vertical range & horizontal range were both increased. Now his up special won't be complete garbage if you want to recover lol.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

K rools so OP that the developers cant even touch him.

Nah they nerfed the **** outta him nvm lololol

All they changed was the range on up-B and the bury duration (which is a change other characters got too)

that is not "nerfed the **** out of him" that is a very minor change

The only K. Rool nerf I support was shortening the distance on his up special. No character that heavy should have a recovery that good.

And nerf the hitbox on the propeller, which, according to some peoples' testing, seems to be one of the highest priority hitboxes in the entire game....what? Who the hell thought this was a good idea?

 

[The Slayer]

K rools so OP that the developers cant even touch him.

Nah they nerfed the **** outta him nvm lololol

He's not that nerfed. Definitely a little less oppressive against people that are new or poor knowledge of the matchup, but still workable as a character. Honestly, he's becoming more aligning with what most heavyweights should have for flaws.

 

[CaP_Omega]

So is this where I say that all my attacks, jumps, and run speed feel faster?

On a serious note, has anybody figured out what "vulnerability" means in these notes? My only thought is cooldown here, but I'd like to have a solid idea what was changed.

My suspicion is "reduced vulnerability" means that hurtboxes were adjusted. Not really sure, but I doubt it means that they added I-frames or anything of the like.

 

[Gyrom8]

What do they mean with ROB's side b by 'made it easier to hit multiple times'? Is that something to do with it being more reliable against smaller characters like Pichu?

 

[Magik0722]

The mashing B while holding up and shield oos option select seems to have been removed.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

I mean, you really shouldn’t be trying to challenge Aether from below anyway, regardless of whether or not it kills you first.

Aethercide doesn’t really bother me because of the risk Chrom has to take, but I do think something should have been done about his forward tilt. It’s stronger than some smash attacks and as fast as most tilts.

 

[soviet prince]

I don't think icdes should exist, they should win like everyone else not get cheap wins

 

[kraw23]

Ugh, Chromicide is still doable? Patch wasn't good enough, then. He should die first if Ganondorf and Bowser die first. Zero exceptions. That was really the only worthwhile thing to even nerf him on, anyway. He was completely fair otherwise with reasonable balance.

I disagree. Chrom's up B is closer to Cloud, Kirby and Ike (obviously) than the command grabs you listed. A spike should kill your opponent first just like all other spikes in the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I disagree. Chrom's up B is closer to Cloud, Kirby and Ike (obviously) than the command grabs you listed. A spike should kill your opponent first just like all other spikes in the game.

To me, all icides should end up the same way. Same person dies first/second. I wasn't meaning just command grabs. Those were two examples of characters I feel should have their icides back as well. I actually don't remember any others besides Chrom, Ganondorf, and Bowser, so I can't use other examples.

It's a principle argument, so to be fair, it's probably not the best way to look at it for entire balance.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

I like how people always complain about PK Fire and it's never been nerfed. Goes to show it isn't the move that's the problem

 

[TheSeelGoesMeow]

My mains they are buffed

Incin : Yes!

Greninja : sure landing lag but so do a lot of characters

Ganon : check

Ike : did not use meteor

Corrin : why buff him/her

Sheik : hmm

ryu/ken : ok

Shulk : woo hoo

pit : buffed if you are not online

mii : eh

Wii fit : not buffed

Main​

​

 

[Arthur97]

At least it seems that K. Rool's Propeller still goes as high from what I've seen.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

Did they make Nana stupider? I know the patch notes say they made her AI better, but these past couple days have been frustrating. She is acting especially off lately.

 

[EGsmash]

I see they changed the way GSP is calculated but for the life of me I can't tell the difference.

What they should have done was to issue permanent bans and brick the systems of anyone caught playing with items and smash balls on in quickplay modes. Seriously, why the hell are people allowed to accumulate GSP with items on?