Super Mario Bros. Characters Discussion.

[D-idara]

Bowser Jr. is the one i hope for the most...Dr. Mario could suck if he's introduced as a character but will rule if he's Mario's costume. Then comes Waluigi; he's awesome people, from his thron-based abilities and crotch chop from Mario Strikers to his wacky techniques and use of Bullet Bills and Bob-Ombs.

Besides, it'd be awesome to select him and have your Gamepad yell "WALUIGI TIME!"

 

[lobotheduck21]

Baby Mario/Luigi/Peach/Bowser/Wario will not get in for the simple reason of Kamek, besides, Baby Mario the least important character in Yoshi's island DS since the only ability he gives Yoshi is to run a tiny bit faster than the other characters. Kamek being the main villian makes it seem like she definitely should get in.

Baby bowser is the main villian as he order the capture of babies mario and luigi, and babies mario and luigi were in partners in time

 

[Deleted member]

Well, there is this

You could say this is as close to a Warioware appearance Waluigi gets. He also has a biker-esque outfit like Wario in this "appearance"

Can't believe I missed this.
It's not Waluigi, just another exaggerated caricature of Wario. See the mustache?

 

[---]

Something concerning about Waluigi.

Not only do we all know that he isn't important to the Mario series (being relegated to Mario spin-offs), Sakurai also stated along the lines of that saying that he dismissed unimportant characters, Waluigi was the example he mentioned. Given the competition Waluigi has along with the question of if Mario gets a newcomer, this is bad news for every unimportant character and especially Waluigi.

I know this exist, so perhaps I may dig it up in the SSB Wii-U thread or maybe even --- can save the day and show where Sakurai said that. It's not exactly the same wording, but it's similar, so take that as you will.

Did a quick search of the thread for the heck of it didn't find anything. Don't really remember that ever coming up or even Waluigi ever being mentioned in any Sakurai related interview.

There's nothing really related to Mario characters in any of the links in the directory thread outside of Dr. Mario and Sakurai liking the Fever theme. Pretty much why arguing Mario characters is a ***** to deal with. Can grab some old Toise arguments depending on what you're trying to make a push towards.


I myself like to stick with the high bar entry theory.

 

[Deleted member]

@---: I think I did remember seeing Waluigi mentioned before as an example of some sort. It was in the same (I believe Famitisu) article back in February, 2008 where Sakurai considered the only worthy new franchise to be Animal Crossing and Pikmin. It was posted in the thread sometimes between April, 2012 and E3 2012.

You can check that one.

 

[---]

Well I looked up Famitsu didn't really find any link in particular that relates to Waluigi, did find what you're trying to remember though.

I remember Animal Crossing and Pikmin being mentioned somewhere, but I think it was this. Either way I don't think that there's anything Sakurai and Waluigi related at the moment other than adknowledging that he has a fanbase on his AT profile on the Dojo.

 

[Deleted member]

@---: The first link was to the last page of the thread; which was not when I last saw the thing.

Around the same time the article in regards to Animal Crossing and Olimar being the only worthy series, ChronoBound made a post in regards to how that news was bad for Starfy and Isaac.

But I think I need to find it for myself. I remember that it was there somewhere.

 

[gothrax]

*sigh* i see nobody's mentioned birdo... ~_-
Nonetheless BIRDO IS MY MOST WANTED MARIO REP EVAA!!

And doesn't really have THAT bad a chance, i mean its not like he'd be new to smash ~.~

And Behind birdo is Bowserjr then waleegee...
and if kamek gets in then i wouldn't like "tear the head off of the first person i see"...

But if toad gets in then you can count on that ^^^ happening ;D

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, so I did find what I remembered (just looked through ChronoBound's OP), but it turns out I was wrong about it.

Still, here's the quote I was thinking of:

- Nintendo has not created many new character-based series since Melee, so it is hard for Sakurai to add more meaningful characters. He is against adding unimportant characters just to beef up the roster count.

Given that it turns out it didn't mention Waluigi, it wasn't as bad as I thought. That said, it stills puts him and any non-important character in a poor position to be added.

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

I actually realized awhile ago that the Mario series has the most characters I would like playable in smash they are:

Characters who have a shot:
Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Paper Mario, Kamek and Toad

Characters who have little to no chance of inclusion:
Petey Piranha and Fawful.

---

Bowser Jr. has the best shot to me. He has a unique weapon and has been in every main Mario game since his first appearance.

Waluigi has a pretty good chance at this point as well after being an AT and most fans have warmed up to him (myself included) Crotch chops and Brawl in the Family helped with that. When Brawl came out I despised Waluigi actually, but now he's too weird no to like a little.

Paper Mario could go either way: on one hand he has pretty big potential and a pretty big fanbase. On the other hand they might avoid his inclusion because he is just another Mario. It's hard to convince some Smash fans that Toon Link is important after pretty much being a sub-series of Zelda let alone a flat version of Mario.

Kamek Though for him to even be considered he would have to be dubbed a Yoshi rep, but with that in mind he is the best choice. The only other options are a generic Shy Guy who is...well,...a generic Shy Guy, and the Baby Mario duo. The duo is a bad choice to me because even the majority of Mario fans (that I've come across anyway) dislike them, and accuse them of eating up space in spin-offs. Kamek, meanwhile, has a major role in nearly every Yoshi game, unique moveset potintal, and no one despises him. (that I know of)

Toad...poor Toad. At this point I don't think he will ever be playable. If he dosn't make the leap from attack to playable in SSB4 I think it is officially time to count him out. I honestly don't care either way anymore; his role as a move for Peach fits him remarkably well. There is something very appealing about having every SMB2 character playable though.

---

Petey: My favorite Mario character by far. He's big awkward speedo wearing flower with attacks built around spewing goop. After his apperance in SSE I'm not counting him out completely yet. Ridley is more then likely going to shrink from his Brawl size to fit into the roster, and there is no reason Petey can't follow suit. I'm not holding my breath though.

Fawful: It's Fawful. Do I really need to explain why I like Fawful? He's quirky... he's been an antagonist twice now...he has a pretty large fanbase...he has movset potintal...and he has fury. I'll be lucky if he even gets a trophy.

---

But like everyone else has said I doubt we are getting more then two new Mario characters. I would honestly be shocked if we get three or more.

 

[jigglover]

In the bowser Jr. thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324278&page=4 there has been much speculation that he could be able to transform into shadow Mario much like Zelda does to Sheik. I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but if it does, would that count as one mario rep or two?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

In the bowser Jr. thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324278&page=4 there has been much speculation that he could be able to transform into shadow Mario much like Zelda does to Sheik. I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but if it does, would that count as one mario rep or two?

Why would he transform, he only did that in 1 game

 

[N3ON]

In the bowser Jr. thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324278&page=4 there has been much speculation that he could be able to transform into shadow Mario much like Zelda does to Sheik. I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but if it does, would that count as one mario rep or two?

Yeah I agree with Psycho in that he really doesn't need the transformation if he is included, he has enough material to use without it anyway (even if he doesn't use his paintbrush, which I hope he does).

But if he did transform into Shadow Mario, Sakurai would count it as two characters, just like he does for Zelda/Sheik, Samus/ZSS, and 3 for PKMN Trainer.
Everybody else would probably count it as one Mario rep though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In the bowser Jr. thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324278&page=4 there has been much speculation that he could be able to transform into shadow Mario much like Zelda does to Sheik. I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but if it does, would that count as one mario rep or two?

There's only one problem. Bowser Jr. no longer wears the bandanna that depicts Mario's signature nose and mustache, which is what he needs in order to make the Shadow Mario transformation.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, so I did find what I remembered (just looked through ChronoBound's OP), but it turns out I was wrong about it.

Still, here's the quote I was thinking of:Given that it turns out it didn't mention Waluigi, it wasn't as bad as I thought. That said, it stills puts him and any non-important character in a poor position to be added.

In the context, it's about series not already represented, which goes along with his statement about only Pikmin and Animal Crossing being worthy.

Welp, sorry Golden Sun fans, but Sakurai said that Isaac is too unimportant to be included.

 

[Starphoenix]

In the context, it's about series not already represented, which goes along with his statement about only Pikmin and Animal Crossing being worthy.

Welp, sorry Golden Sun fans, but Sakurai said that Isaac is too unimportant to be included.

Dark Dawn doesn't exactly help.

Then again, now that I think about it, Mother 2 & 3 both changed their protagonists and stories yet both of them are playable. I guess the caveat is that Ness was already added into the series before Mother 3 was even in development. Well, I assume it was.

 

[Deleted member]

There are a bit of differences between Mother and Golden Sun in that regard, Star.

With Mother, Sakurai clearly thought it was worthy of a series, to which he did not think so about Golden Sun come Brawl's time.
Also, Golden Sun's original protagonist, Isaac, has appeared in every game of the series, despite not being the main hero since the 1st, while Ninten has faded in obscurity (other than Ness being an Expy of him).

But anyways, you are right in that Dark Dawn doesn't help. If Sakurai didn't find Golden Sun and Isaac worthy with the first two Golden Suns, Dark Dawn isn't going to change his mind.

That's getting a little off topic though, as this is a Mario thread.
I guess we're back to square one on who's getting in if at all.

 

[Starphoenix]

Either way, I think the best choice for a new Mario character would be Paper Mario, and here's why. Not only will he be a unique character (yes people, not a clone) but he would bring with him a series that, I feel, was extraordinarily neglected in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. The Mario RPG series as a whole has been a large, staple spin off for some time now, and though I am generally opposed to "repping", it makes sense in this case. My loose thoughts.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad seems like the most logical Mario newcomer when compared to the likes of Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Geno, and Waluigi. Toads are playable in the newest 2D Mario platformer games - New Super Mario Bros. Wii (and U) - and that puts Toad back in the spotlight. The fact that two generic Toads were playable in those games isn't detrimental to THE Toad's chances of getting in Smash. THE Toad can have those two generic Toads as palette swaps (it's the same case with THE Yoshi getting generic Yoshis as palette swaps). There's also the fact THE Toad (and generic Toads) have been playable in countless Mario spin-off games. Toad has a wider audience compared to Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Geno, and Waluigi.

You see... Bowser Jr. may be in both spin-off games and main games but he's only in the newer Mario games while Toad has been in both the older AND newer Mario games. Toad is timeless and iconic.

Paper Mario may represent the Paper Mario series but we already have Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser for that. They have been playable in Super Paper Mario. I mean, if we add Paper Mario, then why not add Paper Luigi, Paper Peach, and Paper Bowser as well? Why add one character who only represents one sub-series when you can add one character who can represent the whole franchise? There ARE Toads in the Paper Mario games, too.

Geno may represent Super Mario RPG but it was only one spin-off game, and a third-party one at that! We already have Mario, Bowser, and Peach. They also use some attacks that originated from Super Mario RPG so it's not like Super Mario RPG is lacking representation. There ARE Toads in Super Mario RPG, too.

Waluigi may represent the Mario spin-off games. But he is only limited to the spin-offs while Toad is present in both the spin-off games AND the main games. Toad is universal, Waluigi is not. Why add a character who only represents a small section of a larger franchise when you can add a character who encompasses the whole franchise like Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser have?

Been playable in main games?
- Toad

Been playable in spin-off games?
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.
- Waluigi
- Geno (only in Super Mario RPG)
- Paper Mario (only in Paper Mario games)

Years active
- Toad: since 1985 to present
- Geno: only in 1996 and 2003 (if you want to count that cameo in the first Mario & Luigi game)
- Paper Mario: only in 2000, 2004, 2007, and 2012
- Waluigi: since 2000 to present
- Bowser Jr.: since 2002 to present

Number of game appearances
- Toad: 60+ games
- Waluigi: 30+ games
- Bowser Jr.: 20+ games
- Paper Mario: 4 games
- Geno: 1 game (and 1 cameo)

That's why I think Toad is the most logical Mario newcomer for Smash, IMO.

 

[cloud9]

Toad seems like the most logical Mario newcomer when compared to the likes of Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Geno, and Waluigi. Toads are playable in the newest 2D Mario platformer games - New Super Mario Bros. Wii (and U) - and that puts Toad back in the spotlight. The fact that two generic Toads were playable in those games isn't detrimental to THE Toad's chances of getting in Smash. THE Toad can have those two generic Toads as palette swaps (it's the same case with THE Yoshi getting generic Yoshis as palette swaps). There's also the fact THE Toad (and generic Toads) have been playable in countless Mario spin-off games. Toad has a wider audience compared to Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Geno, and Waluigi.

You see... Bowser Jr. may be in both spin-off games and main games but he's only in the newer Mario games while Toad has been in both the older AND newer Mario games. Toad is timeless and iconic.

Paper Mario may represent the Paper Mario series but we already have Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser for that. They have been playable in Super Paper Mario. I mean, if we add Paper Mario, then why not add Paper Luigi, Paper Peach, and Paper Bowser as well? Why add one character who only represents one sub-series when you can add one character who can represent the whole franchise? There ARE Toads in the Paper Mario games, too.

Geno may represent Super Mario RPG but it was only one spin-off game, and a third-party one at that! We already have Mario, Bowser, and Peach. They also use some attacks that originated from Super Mario RPG so it's not like Super Mario RPG is lacking representation. There ARE Toads in Super Mario RPG, too.

Waluigi may represent the Mario spin-off games. But he is only limited to the spin-offs while Toad is present in both the spin-off games AND the main games. Toad is universal, Waluigi is not. Why add a character who only represents a small section of a larger franchise when you can add a character who encompasses the whole franchise like Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser have?

Been playable in main games?
- Toad

Been playable in spin-off games?
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.
- Waluigi
- Geno (only in Super Mario RPG)
- Paper Mario (only in Paper Mario games)

Years active
- Toad: since 1985 to present
- Geno: only in 1996 and 2003 (if you want to count that cameo in the first Mario & Luigi game)
- Paper Mario: only in 2000, 2004, 2007, and 2012
- Waluigi: since 2000 to present
- Bowser Jr.: since 2002 to present

Number of game appearances
- Toad: 60+ games
- Waluigi: 30+ games
- Bowser Jr.: 20+ games
- Paper Mario: 4 games
- Geno: 1 game (and 1 cameo)

That's why I think Toad is the most logical Mario newcomer for Smash, IMO.

You will also find that most of those arguments also apply to Koopa Troopa. However, Koopa Troopa is in even more games than Toad, is arguably more well known, and has a greater move set potential.

 

[jigglover]

You're right, toad is in a lot of mario games, but most of them are cameos, like the toad house or rec room etc.
Also, you're now saying that Waluigi deserves to get in more than Bowser JR! I'm speechless. It should really be rated on importance to series, in which case it would be:
Bowser JR.
Paper Mario
Toad
Geno
Waluigi.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Geno
Everyone else

 

[jigglover]

Toad is present in both the spin-off games AND the main games.

My dad was fairly disappointed when he wanted to play mario sports mix and mario and sonic at the olympic/winter olympic/ london 2012 olympic games as Toad but found that he couldn't because he isn't in them!

 

[Opossum]

You will also find that most of those arguments also apply to Koopa Troopa. However, Koopa Troopa is in even more games than Toad, is arguably more well known, and has a greater move set potential.

As far as natural moveset potential goes, Toad has spores, mushroom summoning powers, bomb use, superhuman strength, great jumps, and item usage, just to name a few.

Koopa Troopa walks, bites, goes into his shell, and possibly can get wings for an Up B if borrowed from Paratroopa.


I say Toad wins in that regard.

 

[Deleted member]

@jigglover: Toad is in Sports Mix...
@Opossum: Don't forget moves that various Koopas can use, such as Koops and Kooper. If Toad can borrow moves from Blue Toad and Yellow Toad, Koopa Troopa could borrow moves from those guys and others, etc.

 

[Arcadenik]

You will also find that most of those arguments also apply to Koopa Troopa. However, Koopa Troopa is in even more games than Toad, is arguably more well known, and has a greater move set potential.

Koopa Troopa was never playable in the main games, only the spin-offs. There are only two generic species that have been playable in both main games and spin-offs as opposed to just limited to spin-offs. They are Yoshi and Toad.

 

[Opossum]

@jigglover: Toad is in Sports Mix...
@Opossum: Don't forget moves that various Koopas can use, such as Koops and Kooper. If Toad can borrow moves from Blue Toad and Yellow Toad, Koopa Troopa could borrow moves from those guys and others, etc.

True. I forgot about those guys, actually.

 

[Veggi]

Mario Power Tennis GBA, Mario Golf Toadstool Tour, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games.

*ring* *ring*

Veggi: Hello?

Jhonnykiller45: Get **** on.

Veggi: ok

 

[Deleted member]

@cloud9: Except for one important thing; very few want to see a Koopa Troopa in Smash whereas Toad is highly requested.

 

[cloud9]

@cloud9: Except for one important thing; very few want to see a Koopa Troopa in Smash whereas Toad is highly requested.

And that's the problem. Koopa Troopa would be awesome in Smash, but no-one else sees that. Speeding around the place smashing people with shells would be amazing.

 

[jigglover]

Hmm... That doesn't seem familiar at all, what other fast, bipedal turtle-like creature that's in a shell was in smash... A Pokemon maybe..?

 

[Waluigi]

Jr is definitely to most logical choice he's become a mainstay in the main series like the other 4 and has some moveset potential.

Waluigi is second place although i still think he could rep himself he's very popular and has a ton of moveset potential.

I frekin hate toad with a passion the helpless coward shouldn't come anywhere near smash but i can't deny his importance in the series.

Daisy comes in around the bottom she is just to similar to peach

Birdo..........ROFL sorryi just don't see it

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think Waluigi has great potential, as there is nothing really to inspire him on. Though, with his frame and personality I could see them add Waluigi and have him unique. But he's by far not my choice for a Mario character. Not this time around at least.

Toad has had lot's of apperances, and he's highly important to the series overall. Potential plenty, though his 'super human strenght' and SMB2 status are a bit out of place, seeing as Peach already has the turpins, and even uses a Toad as a shield. There's a lot they COULD do with him, but things are looking bad for him. Especially as Sakurai stated he doesn't view Toad as fighting material. If he doesn't make it now, he won't ever be playable I feel.

Bowser Jr., Birdo, Rosalina all scream semi-clone to me. Bowser Jr. could be unique. Easily. Though I cannot picture him being fully unique in all of his moves. He'd probably just have a different Side B. But you could add Waluigi to this list as well, as he could be a more Luigified Luigi.

Paper Mario is also out there. And I'd personally love to see him make it in. Though I feel it's also highly unlikely.

They might as well just re-add Dr.Mario again with all these choices...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And that's the problem. Koopa Troopa would be awesome in Smash, but no-one else sees that. Speeding around the place smashing people with shells would be amazing.

Generics are usually looked down though, being limited to Assist Trophy and enemy roles. Toad and Yoshi are beyond generic, making them more valid options for being playable.

 

[Venraneld]

I think the top choices are Bowser Jr and Waluigi. Although I'd prefer to see the Koopa Kids instead of Bowser Jr. They could be one character all with the same moves but just have 7 different skins. Each one being a different Koopa Kid.

Other than them, I'd say Daisy and Rosalina are up there, but are very Peach-like.

Toad, meh. Take him or leave him. He's been generic since after Mario 2.

Geno was cool in Mario RPG, but he's Square and I really don't have a desire to play as him in Smash.

Paper or Baby Mario characters. No way. They would bring down the quality of the whole game. Just like G&W did. Okay, maybe I'm being a bit over-dramatic, but I can't stand 2D characters in 3D games. They just don't look right to me.

 

[Deleted member]

And that's the problem. Koopa Troopa would be awesome in Smash, but no-one else sees that. Speeding around the place smashing people with shells would be amazing.

With so few people wanting Koopa Troopa in Smash, it's a good sign that people don't want to play as him. I for one would hate to see him as the fifth Mario character when we can't even guarantee ourselves a newcomer.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

If I was Sakurai, this is probably what I would do:

--

You see this Sakurai?

Make everyone happy!

I know, that so far, a character/stage get's a logo to represent a "series of games." To me, there is no "set rule" about a logo HAS to represent a series of games. It's been the consistency, yes, but it's an unspoken rule. I'm one to believe that Dr. Mario might have gotten his own "pill" logo if he was planned from the very beginning. However it's an unspoken rule, that I think can be bent!

If this ends up not happening (which is a 99% chance haha) I still think, if Waluigi get's added, he'll get his own logo. I'd be willing to bet for it.


[COLLAPSE="REASONING:"]Mushroom Logo: Represents the Mushroom Kingdom of the Main Mario Series: Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad are under this.

Bowser's Logo: Bowser has his own established logo that can be taken advantage of! and Bowser Jr. represents it as well! I think 2 characters are enough to justify a new logo

Star Logo: A symbolic shape of the Mario franchise, it represents the "RPGs" of the Mario franchise. Geno and Paper Mario fall under this. As well as other Mario RPG Characters.

Waluigi's Logo: I'm probably one of the few who firmly believe that if Waluigi gets in the next Smash Bros, he will have his own "upside down L" as his logo. I feel that this will be the first case of breaking the unspoken "logo=franchise" rule.

It's far-fetched, I know, but this would be my solution to the problem if there was a big demand for both Bowser Jr. AND Toad. Having Toad, Bowser Jr., Geno, AND Waluigi under the Mario Mushroom would seem very "over-representational". But this is a good way to Mask it [/COLLAPSE]

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@Onyx Oblivian: There is an issue with one of your franchise symbols. The star icon already represents the Kirby franchise, but I did mention a hammer icon being used to represent Paper Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Why not expand it even further and give Luigi his own icon for Luigi's Mansion and add King Boo as a 2nd rep for that?

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Instead of using a star for the RPG characters' logo, just slap the word 'RPG' there.
I also approve of giving Luigi his logo. He deserves more love.