Super Mario Bros. Characters Discussion.

[PsychoIncarnate]

Geno's inclusion is highly unlikely though, since he is Square Enix's property, and there are better Square Enix reps out there.

Nintendo is able to license a character without representing Square Enix

The only way it really represents Square-Enix is if Square-Enix is involved in creative consulting. SEGA was involved with Sonic, and Konomi was involved with Snake. But it's not like Square would get involved with Geno.

The Mario game he cameo'd in didn't need Square printed on the box or anything despite the character, they just put a little part in the credits.

 

[jigglover]

That was a cameo. He/it was not playable or anything like the extent of smash bros. if he was in.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That was a cameo. He/it was not playable or anything like the extent of smash bros. if he was in.

Doesn't matter. Square wouldn't need or want to get involved with anything to do with the character. They wouldn't even need their copyright symbol on the box because they wouldn't work on any of the development

 

[jigglover]

Of course they wouldn't put their logo on the box, even in smash, they put one character in. Besides, if the cut music from brawl is anything to go by, then squeenix don't want geno or his game in smash. Plus, Geno doesn't deserve the spot at all, his game was only released in Japan and America (I know, another brilliant fact against his inclusion) meaning that I, and billions (literally) of other people couldn't play the game without a japanese or american console before the virtual console on the Wii. Not many people even know it's on virtual console, I only found out because it was published in an ONM magazine once! This means that if Geno was included, then a hell of a lot of buyers wouldn't know who he is, and that is not a good route for Sakurai to go down. Before you bring up several characters, like Roy or Lucas, the only character I didn't know their identity of was R.O.B, since I wasn't born then. I loosely knew who Roy was, I knew enough about the series and the star character was released when Melee was, so someone as obscure as that was known. Geno on the other hand, I would never have known if not coming on here actually, since I don't like the virtual console's controller I didn't even get to Geno (not to mention Mallow is useless at the start, and I'm kind of crap at the genre except for Pokemon, my first nintendo franchise) and I'm not the only one who don't know **** about Geno either. Sakurai would be seriously mad to try and include him, since he is A) A bad decision overall, and B) A Mario character that needs permission, that would waste time trying to get him in, when he could easily go with a nintendo-owned character, like almost every other. Hell, Goomba seems a better inclusion, no licensing problems, and I don't know about you, but those seven votes on that poll on the Geno thread, 3/4 more than Geno, looked pretty sweet to me.

 

[Banjodorf]

My money's been on Jr. Since back in the Brawl days. The way I see it, Toads are generic assistants these days; Jr. also has tons and tons of move set potential.

 

[Deleted member]

The way I see it, Toads are generic assistants these days;

Yoshi says hi.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Paper Mario beats Bowser Jr. if you ask me. He represents his own series, with a new title coming out in a month. Bowser Jr. would be cool as well but he doesn't represent anything in particular.

Having both would solve any problem anyway.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Toad is most likely. He has his own game and is currently the last of the major protagonists and the last of the big Mario 8. I would like to see Toad and Bowser Jr and Waluigi and Paper Mario and Geno and Rosalina and the Koopalings and Fawful and Birdo and King Boo but Mario isn't going to get all the newcomers.

So I'll be happy is Toad and Bowser Jr get in.

 

[Arcadenik]

I notice that Sakurai tend to put characters from games that Nintendo EAD or R&D1 developed more often than other characters from games that other 1st party development teams and 2nd party development teams. Toad and Bowser Jr. originated in games that were developed by Nintendo EAD. Paper Mario originated in games that were developed by Intelligent Systems but Sakurai always add Fire Emblem characters. Waluigi originated in games that were developed by Camelot, a second-party development team. Sakurai didn't add any Camelot characters in Brawl so Waluigi and Isaac are Assist Trophies.

Sakurai tend to add protagonists (or at least playable characters) from the "main" games of a series. Dr. Mario is the exception to this rule but that's only because Sakurai added him as a last-minute filler clone to buff the Melee roster (at least he was R&D1). Anyway, what I am saying is that I believe that the most likely Mario newcomer is Toad (playable in SMB2 and NSMBW/U), followed by Bowser Jr. (secondary antagonist), followed by Paper Mario (Intelligent Systems), followed by Waluigi (2nd party), and finally Geno (3rd party).

 

[jigglover]

All of what you said is true (just run before SSBF wrings your neck) but I believe that Bowser junior is more likely than Toad, Waluigi more than paper mario and Rosalina more than Geno (). The reason being, is that Toad wasn't picked because he was unique in SMB2, he was picked, because honestly, what other non-antagonistic characters were there at the time? The leads to NSMBW because the new super mario bros series is trying to be as close to the super mario bros series while still appealing to old and new gamers alike. Toad was in SMB2, we had NSMBW, the second in the new super mario series. His being playable wasn't from a sudden spark of popularity or something, it was because he was in SMB2, and he was in SMB2 because he was the only other non-antagonistic character from SMB(1). I mean, the damsel in distress was playable! Bowser junior was accepted beautifully in SMS, giving him the full antagonistic role in NSMB (since while Bowser was Dry Bowser he was in charge of the koopa troop, if you didn't know) and then secondary antagonist in NSMBW again. Unfortunately, Bowser junior wasn't in SM3DL or NSMB2, but this is most likely because Nintendo wanted to get the koopalings known to the newer generation. Don't worry bowser junior fans (and me) though, Bowser junior is BACK with PM:SS , even being on the boxart, so this could be alerting us of things to come! Toad has never been more than a small supporting character except in Wario woods, Doki Doki panic and the (very loosely) remake (of sorts) to Doki Doki panic, being only playable in mario kart, mario party (actually no, I don't think he is, maybe in one), mario tennis and maybe other similair games, whereas bowser junior, actually bringing some sort of antagonism to mario party, and playable in nearly every other spin-off after his release, even MK:DD released just over a year after his debut. That is why.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Toad was playable in every Mario Party starting with Mario Party 5, with the exception of Mario Party Advance (which doesn't matter since it was garbage anyway).

Also Bowser Jr. wasn't exactly warmly received in his debut game Super Mario Sunshine nor several games afterwards. I don't think his reputation changed until somewhere between Super Mario Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, even then he's still not universally liked by everyone. It not hard to see why, he's kinda thrown in more games then he deserves and is not really appealing as a character.

 

[vGxVisions]

Judging by what I've read, the most wanted 4 from the Mario Bros. Universe are, Geno, Toad, Bowser Jr. and Waluigi. I beleive that the order of relevance would be Toad>Bowser Jr.>Geno>Waluigi. I personally would rather have Goomba and some more enemies but since no body seems to be talking about those guys, I won't get into them.
Firstly, Waluigi is only really in Sports and Party games.
Secondly, Geno is third party and he is only in one game (I think, I don't really know much about him, I never played RPG)
Finally, I just prefer Toad to Bowser Jr., I wouldn't mind if either of the two got in.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I seriously don't understand why people would want Waluigi. I mean c'mon...

Paper Mario uber alles

 

[3Bismyname]

i just find Toad to be a little boring when compared to Paper Mario, Bowser Jr, or Waluigi. I agree that he deserves a spot but that is the reason i don't support him for the next smash. the other 3 just have more to work with.

I do however support Bowser Jr more than any of them but to each his own.

 

[FZ64]

I seriously don't understand why people would want Waluigi. I mean c'mon...

Paper Mario uber alles

[COLLAPSE="big pic"]

[/COLLAPSE]

all so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXgYdl_pEfo

 

[SmashShadow]

How is Geno more relevant than Waluigi. He's been in 1 game -_- Don't get me wrong, Geno>Waluigi for me but I don't see how he's more relevant than Waluigi.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yoshi says hi.

Yoshi also got a big deal made out of him as Mario's partner, where Toad is always just an assistant of the assistant, that lately have been used to push the story along.


I don't hate Toad, I just don't see them using him for anything other than Peach's neutral-B.

Edit: Yoshi has also had his own games.

 

[FZ64]

Yoshi also got a big deal made out of him as Mario's partner, where Toad is always just an assistant of the assistant, that lately have been used to push the story along.


I don't hate Toad, I just don't see them using him for anything other than Peach's neutral-B.

Edit: Yoshi has also had his own games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYbnXnE2vc

ya toad has a game to

 

[Robert of Normandy]

This is why I don't put any Mario characters on my prediction roster. It's literally impossible to get a consensus on which character is the most worthy.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi also got a big deal made out of him as Mario's partner, where Toad is always just an assistant of the assistant, that lately have been used to push the story along.


I don't hate Toad, I just don't see them using him for anything other than Peach's neutral-B.

Edit: Yoshi has also had his own games.

However, you can count how many games the main Yoshi played a major role in on one hand.

The Yoshi series isn't even about him; it's about the Yoshi species as a whole. He doesn't even come in until the very end of Yoshi's Island DS, where he's revealed as the 7th Star Child.

So my point is that the "generics" have pushed Yoshi along, and they will likely do the same with Toad due to the prevalence of Blue Toad and Yellow Toad as of late.

 

[jigglover]

Yoshi also got a big deal made out of him as Mario's partner, where Toad is always just an assistant of the assistant, that lately have been used to push the story along.


I don't hate Toad, I just don't see them using him for anything other than Peach's neutral-B.

Edit: Yoshi has also had his own games.

Not another one.... I do NOT want Toad in, but there are reasons to include him. Toad has had his own game, Wario's woods (was it for virtual boy?) and has at least some Move-set potential (not anything unique, but enough for Sakurai if he [/I] wants Toad in, though it would be quite boring probably.

 

[FZ64]

Not another one.... I do NOT want Toad in, but there are reasons to include him. Toad has had his own game, Wario's woods (was it for virtual boy?)

nope NES and SNES

 

[blueman99]

Honestly I do not want to see either Toad or this Geno Character(dont know much about him) The best choices are Bowser Jr, Shy Guy, or Maybe Professor E Gadd, since the new Luigis mansion 2 is coming out soon. WE DO NOT NEED MORE VARIATION Characters like Paper mario or baby mario or stuff like that. We need more of the original characters from the games.

The whole toad thing is ridiculous , I really cant see him being in the next smash bros whatsoever.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Not another one.... I do NOT want Toad in, but there are reasons to include him. Toad has had his own game, Wario's woods (was it for virtual boy?) and has at least some Move-set potential (not anything unique, but enough for Sakurai if he [/I] wants Toad in, though it would be quite boring probably.

Hell, Toad's been around longer than Yoshi, or even characters like Wario, I see no reason not to include him. I'm pretty sure Sakurai can think up a movest for Toad, he can have a move-set inspired by NSMBWII/NSMBU with a bit of SMB2, regardless, it wouldn't be hard to do so. =P

 

[8-peacock-8]

Shy Guy

 

[SmasherMaster]

Honestly I do not want to see either Toad or this Geno Character(dont know much about him) The best choices are Bowser Jr, Shy Guy, or Maybe Professor E Gadd, since the new Luigis mansion 2 is coming out soon. WE DO NOT NEED MORE VARIATION Characters like Paper mario or baby mario or stuff like that. We need more of the original characters from the games.

The whole toad thing is ridiculous , I really cant see him being in the next smash bros whatsoever.

E Gadd would only be in if Luigi would be considered not a Mario character but a Luigi's mansion character AND THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

 

[jigglover]

E Gadd would only be in if Luigi would be considered not a Mario character but a Luigi's mansion character AND THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

If it did then King boo would get picked before E Gadd anyway.

 

[Propeller Toad]

Honestly I do not want to see either Toad or this Geno Character(dont know much about him) The best choices are Bowser Jr, Shy Guy, or Maybe Professor E Gadd, since the new Luigis mansion 2 is coming out soon. WE DO NOT NEED MORE VARIATION Characters like Paper mario or baby mario or stuff like that. We need more of the original characters from the games.

The whole toad thing is ridiculous , I really cant see him being in the next smash bros whatsoever.

It's funny that you say that Toad is a ridiculous choice (despite him being the one of the main playable protagonists in the Mario games throughout the years); yet, you suggest Shy Guy and Professor E. Gadd who have shown little moveset potential aside from being a mere enemy and a npc in a few games.

Toad, in the games he and his species have been playable in, have shown more than plenty of moveset potential; however, they are continuously ignored. SMB2 has many elements remaining leftover, while the NSMB games have more than enough elements to give Toad a real unique moveset. Even his own game Wario's Woods has potential. His own stats (like super speed and strength, power-ups and items [which make sense as he is often associated with items]) can all work. Not to mention that Toad's own characteristic of being a humanoid mushroom gives him unique attributes (already represented through his spore attack in the previous Smash games). This proves that Toad has more than enough at this point of time to be unique.

Also I'm quite puzzled as to how people are labeling characters such as Toad to being uninspired or boring when they have yet to be in Smash yet. Nobody expected characters like Peach or even Luigi to get unique movesets when they were put into Smash Bros.. Heck, most Mario characters in Brawl even got many made up moves to make them unique. Toad has more than enough to stand out...however, he is just overlooked due to his cutesy nature. Toad is one of Mario's original characters and has as much potential of being a fun fighter as the other main four are.

Seriously, how much could Peach, Zelda, Luigi (in SSB64 before LM was released), Captain Falcon, G&W, ROB, etc do before they were added in Smash Bros.? Expect surprises from any character and the fact that Toad has unique moveset potential now is already a good sign.

 

[jigglover]

The problem is, is that the move-set potential is there, it's just drab. It wouldn't make sense to spend time and resources making an interesting though made-up set for Toad, when he has fairly basic and similar material to use. Just a quick specials set:

Stats:
Speed: 11/10 (faster than Sonic)
Jump: 2/10
Traction: 6/10 (he skids when he turns around, and is more viable to trip if it comes back)

Neutral B, Snowball toss: This is like Mario's and Luigi's, except at a steadier fall, Mario's fall straight down, while Luigi's stay in the air, Toad's fall at a degree somewhere in the middle! It causes freezing if it hits, much like IC's down B.

Up B, Power squat jump: Because of Toad's abysmal jumping stat, 2 out of 10, instead of this making him jump twice as high like in super mario bros. 2, he jumps not triple, but quadruple, to be fair, both jumps and the recovery attack is still less than Peach's in Melee, and possibly the same as Captain Falcon's in Brawl.

Down B, Summon: Due to often being associated with items, he pulls out a random power-up from somewhere with this move and it does what it usually would. He can pull out any item, however if it is a helping item it would react immediately on Toad if in a basic brawl etc. but Toad can either use it on himself or throw it at a team-mate in a team battle. He can also pull out hindrance to his opponents, like a bob-omb he can throw at them, or a poison mushroom. There is a 5% chance he will pull out a smash ball.

Side B, checkpoint flag: In super mario galaxy 1 and 2, especially 2, checkpoint flags often end up near to or on the starshroom or Toad, like here: 'Additionally, Toad's starshroom at this point has a Checkpoint Flag on the underside of the spaceship that Mario can use to save his progress before facing Digga-Leg.' So I thought that Toad could get out a checkpoint flag and either throw like a javelin, like the bows and arrows on Toon, young and adult Link, or swing it like a bat like Ness' baseball bat attack. This could also reference the fact that Toad is one of that faces you could use on your planet as a save file in the galaxies.

Final smash, an assortment of things from the several games that Toad has been in or is associated with along with several abilities shown in-game or just cameos that he ended up doing:
Ok, after that extremely long title (I'm sure Sakurai could come up with a catchy name) we come to the actual attack: The first part is much like Olimar's, Toad summons those big mushroom things from Mario sports mix and then flies up in his starshroom, but instead of crashing down at the end, he goes into a final smash like Snake's (this would be especially good if Snake left, but I am completely opposed to him being cut) but with FLUDD shooting quick bursts of water. This references his special ability in mario sports mix, the starshroom from the galaxies and the fact that he fixed FLUDD at the end of sunshine, but then at the end of that as well, Toadette comes and sits next to Toad, while uncontrollable star bits rain down onto the opponents, much like thinner but far more common and wider-spread star-storms, more Lucas' than Ness'. This might sound a little broken, but the Spores are only half as effective as the bulborbs in Olimar's, racking up damage a little more than half of Olimar's, and the Squirts of water from FLUDD are more knock-back based than damage based like Snake's are, not to mention the star bits are worse than Lucas' final smash for the reasons above. It was just that Toad has so much stuff to do with Mario's history, I had to get them all into his final smash.

After doing that set, I would actually very much like it in, and I half-support Toad in now. I've never actually read this article to the complete: http://www.mariowiki.com/toad but now that I have, I didn't realize just how much he has to do with Mario, and the amount of games he's been in, I think almost all of them, let's see: SMB, SMB:TLL, SMB2 (First playable), SMB3, SM64, SM64DS, SMS (Wooh!), NSMB, SMG, NSMBW, SMG2, NSMB2 and soon to be NSMBU. I don't think that has missed out anything. He has actually been in every Mario platformer or 3D adventure! :O Toad is now my second-most wanted, (sorry WAAH!) behind Bowser junior, Toad has more worth to the series, but I've loved Bowser junior since mario sunshine, and would endlessly play him and Paratroopa in MK:DD (I love Paratroopa for some reason too) so it's just personal.

Do you guys like his move-set?

 

[vGxVisions]

I like the move-set but if the characters move-set's were based on the games they were in Captain Falcon would drive and Peach would get kidnapped. A lot of the characters moves are unique to Smash Bros. which makes it practically impossible to predict a move-set.

 

[8-peacock-8]

@Jigglover

Here's a better moveset.

http://projectcrusade.wikia.com/wiki/Toad

 

[jigglover]

I like the move-set but if the characters move-set's were based on the games they were in Captain Falcon would drive and Peach would get kidnapped. A lot of the characters moves are unique to Smash Bros. which makes it practically impossible to predict a move-set.

LOL. To be fair, Captain Falcon drives for the final smash and Peach gets kidnapped in the story mode!

 

[vGxVisions]

Paratroopa would be cool. In fact any of the enemies would be cool. But Paratroopa would be the coolest.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

No offense jigglover, but no one should be outrunning Sonic, since he's supposed to be the fastest runner out there.

 

[Deleted member]

No offense jigglover, but no one should be outrunning Sonic, since he's supposed to be the fastest runner out there.

Wrong. Dr. Eggman is the fastest runner out there. I'm only half-trolling.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Of course Dr. Eggman would be fatter faster then Sonic. Have you seen those long legs he has? Very useful for achieving faster speed with less stamina consumption thanks to the longer stride.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What about the Flash?

The guy who got his powers by smoking in his laboratory and accidentally knocking over some hard water and breathing in it's deadly fumes for hours

 

[Deleted member]

We're straying a little too far off subject....

But anywho, I agree that Toad should be the fastest Mario character (which doesn't really mean much since Bowser and Peach are slow, while Mario and Luigi are average), but definitely not the fastest character in the game.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Right, the third fastest. After and

 

[Deleted member]

Again, Toad would be the fastest Mario character, but bear in mind that Bowser and Peach are on the slow side while Mario and Luigi are just average.

I feel he'd be fine around Meta Knight's speed.
Toad's not insanely fast, but he's pretty fast.