Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

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True I would just rather have an immediate follow up to The Lost Age since I think there was more that could have been done before the timeskip. Like, the immediate aftermath of Alchemy being reintroduced to the world and how the world changes.
I'm in support of a remake, definitely, to reintroduce everyone and the like, but if I were in charge of the direction they were taking, I'd do a prequel about sealing alchemy, staring Jenna and Felix's ancestor. That could be a super cool story with Lemuria and a whole new cast. Make the MC a Venus Adept and put her in Smash instead of Issac or Felix (or maybe with a Felix alt costume/echo).

Then you relieve the new people of having to play 3 games before they catch up, and you get new characters and story (if I recall, creating ideas for Weyward was never an issue for Camelot, and they said as much). And I think a female character would be more well received to be slotted into Smash for game promo a la Corrin and Roy. I've always thought too that the Golden Sun attachment was not too much to the character of Isaac, but more to the franchise itself.
 
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I think a prequel would be interresting, after a remake. Depending on the story having it released before Dark Dawn sequel can be interresting, but confusing.
I always thought it would make a great period for a MMO. Right at the brink of the seal, during the alchemic wars
A prequel would be a perfect way to expand the lore of the series and keep things fresh, I'm thinking if they ever do that it can either be DLC for the remake or it's own game if a remake is successful
 

Hydewell

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Hydewell

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I never got Aces so I wasn’t aware of the GS references that were in that game. It makes me happy that Camelot didn’t forget about the franchise
Even if you had it, you wouldn't know about the Sol Sanctum reference, because, sadly, they put a different name in the translation (Bask Ruins/Temple of Bask).
 
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Ura

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Hey guys I know I mentioned to you about my own movement I would start yesterday called Operation Warzone (similar to Opeartion Sunrise but for Advance Wars). For those of you that didn't see it, it's officially started and I would greatly appreciate anyone's support for this movement!
Tbh having some GS influence in the game is better than having no GS anything at all in this situation.
That's pretty much my attitude towards any dormant franchise TBH. Any kind of relevance is better than nothing at all.
Was low key hoping for an Isaac reveal in that game when they started releasing DLC.

But I knew it was not very realistic.
I mean I was low-key hoping Spirits had a chance in this pack and I was made to look like a fool so don't worry lol.
 

NessAtc.

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Hey guys I know I mentioned to you about my own movement I would start yesterday called Operation Warzone (similar to Opeartion Sunrise but for Advance Wars). For those of you that didn't see it, it's officially started and I would greatly appreciate anyone's support for this movement!

That's pretty much my attitude towards any dormant franchise TBH. Any kind of relevance is better than nothing at all.

I mean I was low-key hoping Spirits had a chance in this pack and I was made to look like a fool so don't worry lol.
we aren't done yet
 

N3ON

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Tbh having some GS influence in the game is better than having no GS anything at all in this situation.
If only more people had had this mentality about Ultimate back in November...

I still think the next character at least will be a third party. I’m just hoping it’s someone I wanted like Lloyd
I'd be shocked if it wasn't third-party.
 

N3ON

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I'd just be confused why they saved a first-party for last instead of a bigger reveal like Banjo. The expectation has been very clearly set up for all third parties, and all the characters for this pass should have been locked down ages ago.
You aren't selling nearly as many passes by the fifth as you would towards the top. Play your big guns earlier, to get people on board for the entire thing. Also, engagement drops off the further you get from release.

People look at it like it's a narrative, where there will be some climax at the end, but it's not. It's a business, where you put the shiniest, most appealing things up front. Not that character 5 won't be noteworthy in and of itself, because the DLC still needs to sell on an individual basis as well.
 

THE 6r

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You aren't selling nearly as many passes by the fifth as you would towards the top. Play your big guns earlier, to get people on board for the entire thing. Also, engagement drops off the further you get from release.

People look at it like it's a narrative, where there will be some climax at the end, but it's not. It's a business, where you put the shiniest, most appealing things up front. Not that character 5 won't be noteworthy in and of itself, because the DLC still needs to sell on an individual basis as well.
Yes, but character 5 also has to act like a sort of bridge to the next batch of DLC. While, yes, it was decided a while ago, probably well before there was total certainty of more DLC, it was probably chosen with that possibility in mind.
 

N3ON

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Yes, but character 5 also has to act like a sort of bridge to the next batch of DLC. While, yes, it was decided a while ago, probably well before there was total certainty of more DLC, it was probably chosen with that possibility in mind.
If anything, the onus is on the seventh character, the first after the pass. That character sets the perception for what's to follow. The fifth pass character won't get people to keep buying DLC afterwards - many are probably already locked in with the pass. It's not going to sell many remaining passes, nor future passes (it wouldn't be in them), at that point it'd exist mostly to sell itself.

Meanwhile, the seventh character may have to convince people to purchase an entirely new pass. Or, if it's just by itself, it won't have the benefit of being part of a package deal. So either way, it carries a larger burden than the one after Terry.
 

StormC

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You aren't selling nearly as many passes by the fifth as you would towards the top. Play your big guns earlier, to get people on board for the entire thing. Also, engagement drops off the further you get from release.

People look at it like it's a narrative, where there will be some climax at the end, but it's not. It's a business, where you put the shiniest, most appealing things up front. Not that character 5 won't be noteworthy in and of itself, because the DLC still needs to sell on an individual basis as well.
This has basically been my stance with the Fighters Pass. They are selling you a whole product, not the individual characters. Fighters Pass is an easier sell to consumers and makes more money for Nintendo. In this way it's similar to the base game which frontloads the hype cycle with Everyone Is Here, Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. Smash 4 DLC was piecemeal so they had to make each DLC stand on its own merit (whether or not Bayonetta was sufficiently "hype enough" it's clear Nintendo felt she would be a strong note to end on). Ending on like, Ryu Hayabusa might have caused some groaning without more DLC announced, but by then Nintendo has already sold the overwhelming majority of passes anyway.

In that sense speculation would be a lot more exciting if it was piecemeal. No need to be resigned to E3 being the "peak."
 
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I'd just be confused why they saved a first-party for last instead of a bigger reveal like Banjo. The expectation has been very clearly set up for all third parties, and all the characters for this pass should have been locked down ages ago.
Smash has never saved it's biggest names for last. The concept of ending on a high note is something fans just keep expecting despite 5 games and one DLC cycle doing the exact opposite.
 

Xenigma

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If anything, the onus is on the seventh character, the first after the pass. That character sets the perception for what's to follow. The fifth pass character won't get people to keep buying DLC afterwards - many are probably already locked in with the pass. It's not going to sell many remaining passes, nor future passes (it wouldn't be in them), at that point it'd exist mostly to sell itself.

Meanwhile, the seventh character may have to convince people to purchase an entirely new pass. Or, if it's just by itself, it won't have the benefit of being part of a package deal. So either way, it carries a larger burden than the one after Terry.
I think the question is when they were planning on revealing that fifth character and/or when they plan to reveal their first post-pass character. With the pass scheduled to be fully released by February 2020, my eye is on the place where the pass began: The Game Awards. If the final pass character was intended to be revealed there much like Joker was last year, then I'd argue it would make sense for them to have something big saved up as a final marketing push. On the other hand, if that reveal comes with Terry's release in November (Game Awards should be early December), then maybe they use that stage for our seventh DLC character, in which case yes, there is a ton of pressure on that reveal to get fans to spend more money. Either way, I'm interested to see what exactly happens.

Smash has never saved it's biggest names for last. The concept of ending on a high note is something fans just keep expecting despite 5 games and one DLC cycle doing the exact opposite.
I'm going by the precedent of Sm4sh DLC, where I'd argue Bayonetta was a very high note of an ending. Granted, she wasn't as big as earlier releases Cloud and Ryu, but I know I wasn't alone in thinking she was an amazing finale.
 

Kumashock

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I'm going by the precedent of Sm4sh DLC, where I'd argue Bayonetta was a very high note of an ending. Granted, she wasn't as big as earlier releases Cloud and Ryu, but I know I wasn't alone in thinking she was an amazing finale.
Bayonetta is still a niche character in general. People bring up this grand finale expectation and it never happened with any Smash.
 

SNEKeater

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Even if Bayo is niche I think she was a great ending for Smash DLC.
Usually Smash games don't end with a great character. When I say great I'm not talking about better or worst characters. A great character in this case would be something hype for the most part of the community, like Banjo.

But I would argue that actually there's not a single character who would end a fighter pass in a high note without some people getting angry. Every character would have haters, even the most popular and requested ones.

I think that some characters are more suitable to end the fighter pass in the sense of reception and impact, but in that regard I believe no matter who is gonna be fighter number 5 because some people will complain anyway.
 

N3ON

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The difference between DLC and base is, because DLC still needs to sell on its own merit for people who didn't pick up the pass (which is not an insignificant number), you can't end on a low point - but that doesn't mean it's a high point. If base reveals its a-tiers at the beginning and middle, and c-tiers at the end, DLC still has to end with at least a b-tier.

Like... Bayonetta isn't a low point, she's just not Cloud or Ryu or Mewtwo. If you compare her to base, she shines brighter than a lot of 4's newcomers. And they didn't even have a pass to sell. Though to be fair, Nintendo also aimed for her to be the "fanbase pick", even if their predictions ended up a bit off the mark.

I think the question is when they were planning on revealing that fifth character and/or when they plan to reveal their first post-pass character. With the pass scheduled to be fully released by February 2020, my eye is on the place where the pass began: The Game Awards. If the final pass character was intended to be revealed there much like Joker was last year, then I'd argue it would make sense for them to have something big saved up as a final marketing push. On the other hand, if that reveal comes with Terry's release in November (Game Awards should be early December), then maybe they use that stage for our seventh DLC character, in which case yes, there is a ton of pressure on that reveal to get fans to spend more money. Either way, I'm interested to see what exactly happens.
The only guess I have for timing regarding the sixth and seventh characters is that before all five characters in the Fighters Pass are available for purchase, we will know the character that's coming afterwards, and if there is a second pass to follow.

One possibility which makes sense to me is indeed revealing character six at the Game Awards, then having the Jan/Feb Direct reveal the seventh character and be followed by another in-depth look at the sixth character, before they are released that day or next, much as they did with Banjo. However, that possibility leans heavily on precedent, which is always risky. Another option is that they have a Smash Direct/broadcast between now and February.
 
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Gioka

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Regarding timing I feel we will the 5th from the pass announced either when they showcase Terry or at Game Awards depending on who that character is (obviously third party I assume but then again Game Awards is a very expensive place to showcase). Now in terms of that, I feel we will get a hint on who will open the pass either together with 5th's announcement or when that one is showcased.
 

FlawedAI

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Well, since Terry is being released in November, I'm sure we'll see his showcase before then, and it's my guess that either the fifth character is announced during that showcase, or is saved for the Game Awards, like Joker last year. If DLC 5 is revealed during Terry's showcase, then I bet we see DLC 6 at the Game Awards, or in a Nintendo Direct not long after. (Maybe even at the end of DLC 5's showcase.)
 
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I'm going by the precedent of Sm4sh DLC, where I'd argue Bayonetta was a very high note of an ending. Granted, she wasn't as big as earlier releases Cloud and Ryu, but I know I wasn't alone in thinking she was an amazing finale.
I mean her being a good finale really shapes up to her being "the ballot winner" I don't think it would have been quite so notable without that ruse.
 
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Remember to vote for Isaac on the Sabi/Scott the Woz/Papa Genos DLC poll. So far it has over 5k votes so I'm really hoping we can give Isaac a good ranking.
https://t.co/w6g3lqyiWf?amp=1
 

N3ON

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Just the fact that the thread is moving at a nice clip again is great, it was crawling along for a while. Now it very well may break 1000 pages by the time all is said and done, which is crazy.

Remember to vote for Isaac on the Sabi/Scott the Woz/Papa Genos DLC poll. So far it has over 5k votes so I'm really hoping we can give Isaac a good ranking.
https://t.co/w6g3lqyiWf?amp=1
The best times to gauge popularity is right at the beginning of a Smash cycle, when there are ideally no deconfirmations, and everyone rests of equal ground. After that, results such as this are going to be coloured by the interpretation of what's already come.

For instance, I bet the results of this ballot are dominated by third-parties, because for a long time, first-parties have played little role in active speculation. Additionally, ATs, with the possible exception of Waluigi, probably won't rank well, despite being some of the most popular candidates in the lead to release.
 
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Midget Master

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I'm basically hoping that the reaction Isaac's deconfirmation left an impression. I think that hopes for him could pick up more steam as the pass goes on, depending on the types of characters we get. But I think there's no way he's not at least on their minds - dude got a LOT of compensation. Costume, AT, lots of spirits. I also feel like he has the easiest to "replace" assist trophy because you really could just throw Felix or Matthew into that role, if they decide that's what they want to do. But if they don't, then that's kinda like, whatever. Two Isaacs, fine by me. All I want is them to go for it with a playable Golden Sun character, the rest is their business.
 
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The best times to gauge popularity is right at the beginning of a Smash cycle, when there are ideally no deconfirmations, and everyone rests of equal ground. After that, results such as this are going to be coloured by the interpretation of what's already come.

For instance, I bet the results of this ballot are dominated by third-parties, because for a long time, first-parties have played little role in active speculation. Additionally, ATs, with the possible exception of Waluigi, probably won't rank well, despite being some of the most popular candidates in the lead to release.
That's definitely true but we might as well get him ranked up as high as we can. At least it isn't one of those other recent bogus polls that use Twitter replies as a metric for votes. Just being in the top 15 for this one should at least should suffice
 

Tetiro

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That's definitely true but we might as well get him ranked up as high as we can. At least it isn't one of those other recent bogus polls that use Twitter replies as a metric for votes. Just being in the top 15 for this one should at least should suffice
I agree. The worst that will happen is Isaac is not on the list and we all assume it is due to "deconfirmation"

I have already voted
 
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