Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

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JaidynReiman
Why is there no time after another Mario Sports game? Camelot seems to release a game every couple of years.

Of course, we don't yet know how long the Switch will last, and we'd prefer not to hit the end of the console's lifetime again, so I see the concern.

And yeah, I just quickly looked at a vid of the credits and didn't see the Takahashi bros. Sorry for not double checking.
If you assume every two years (which I'm not fully confident in, I honestly think they were devving the last two Mario Tennis games with reduced teams and were potentially working on something else at the same time), then their first title is in the Switch's second year. Their second title will be in the fourth year, and the third title will be in the sixth year. By the sixth year, Switch is getting a successor announced and people aren't buying as many games. Whatever comes out is probably not going anywhere. This is where you should release something like Mario Golf.


If Mario Golf releases in the fourth year and nothing in the third, guaranteed anything like a GS is ****ed if it releases on Switch still. GS has to be next.



So I checked Camelot's employee numbers and they are at 42. Not too bad, but more would be needed if they were to ever dream of tackling a full scale Golden Sun game that we are dreaming of.
Its said 42 since 2010. Those numbers aren't current. If they haven't changed at all in 8 years, guaranteed GS is in development and has been since likely before Ultra Smash released (Ultra Smash only has around 33 people from Camelot credited).
 
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If you assume every two years (which I'm not fully confident in, I honestly think they were devving the last two Mario Tennis games with reduced teams and were potentially working on something else at the same time), then their first title is in the Switch's second year. Their second title will be in the fourth year, and the third title will be in the sixth year. By the sixth year, Switch is getting a successor announced and people aren't buying as many games. Whatever comes out is probably not going anywhere. This is where you should release something like Mario Golf.


If Mario Golf releases in the fourth year and nothing in the third, guaranteed anything like a GS is ****ed if it releases on Switch still. GS has to be next.




Its said 42 since 2010. Those numbers aren't current. If they haven't changed at all in 8 years, guaranteed GS is in development and has been since likely before Ultra Smash released (Ultra Smash only has around 33 people from Camelot credited).
When you say Switch Successor don't you just mean something along the lines of DSI and DS Lite? It may just be a Switch with better battery life and improved schematics.
 

Silo777

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I do want to bring up something. Remember the interview with the Takahashi brothers on Mario Tennis Aces where they talked about Golden Sun and compared it to Mario? Well, that interview happened when the game launched. In other words, they’re probably looking towards what their next project is going to be. Then, just a month or two after, we got the Rathalos tweet and the trademark. Now, isn’t it just a little strange that the last time Golden Sun even got mentioned was in 2012, 6 years of silence, then suddenly we get three significant things in the span of a couple months? But that isn’t all. Mario Tennis Aces referenced Golden Sun with the name of the sanctum. Now, this alone probably wouldn’t mean anything, but combined with something else does raise a bit of an eyebrow. Anyone else notice how Aces’ campaign was almost...RPG-like? There were even some RPG mechanics like leveling and stats, and it even had a somewhat RPGish overworld. Maybe, just maybe, they’re slowly preparing their team for their next project by doing this. A lot of questionable things. Nothing 100% concrete, but it does start to add up.
 

StrawHatX

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So we have a few things going for us.

1. I’m sure NoJ has seen with the Smash Ballot from 2015 that people want Isaac in Smash. That means they know people are still interested in the Golden Sun series

2. RPG’s are making a huge comeback on the Switch. Square has their own division now for development for the system, Xenoblade is doing great, and Octopath did well.

3. Mario Tennis Aces is pretty much done so Camelot can move on to the next project. If they don’t have the resources themselves to get a new GS game done Nintendo can assist them with it by assigning another company to aid them.
 
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When you say Switch Successor don't you just mean something along the lines of DSI and DS Lite? It may just be a Switch with better battery life and improved schematics.
No, by Switch successor I mean Wii U to the Wii. Or Super Nintendo to Nintendo Entertainment System. 3DS to DS. What else would I be talking about?

DSi was not a DS successor. That was a DS upgrade. A Switch upgrade probably happens during the third or fourth year. Not the sixth. Sixth year is when the console is on it's last legs and a brand new one is coming out.
 
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StrawHatX

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No, by Switch successor I mean Wii U to the Wii. Or Super Nintendo to Nintendo Entertainment System. 3DS to DS. What else would I be talking about?

DSi was not a DS successor. That was a DS upgrade. A Switch upgrade probably happens during the third or fourth year. Not the sixth. Sixth year is when the console is on it's last legs and a brand new one is coming out.
Unless it’s the 3DS. Nintendo is milking the crap out of that. I also think the Switch can last longer than most consoles. It’s hybrid ability of being a home console AND portable really helps it. And it’s already on pace to sell better than the Wii.
 
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Unless it’s the 3DS. Nintendo is milking the crap out of that. I also think the Switch can last longer than most consoles. It’s hybrid ability of being a home console AND portable really helps it. And it’s already on pace to sell better than the Wii.
Maybe but with the next gen jump in console power it might leave the Switch in a Wii situation where the only games on it are shovelware as the system no longer has the power to meet what devs want to do. The novelty of taking home console games on the go might start to wear thin once devs other than Nintendo move on just like motion controls did. That being said it will likely last longer but that's just something worth thinking about.
 

StrawHatX

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Maybe but with the next gen jump in console power it might leave the Switch in a Wii situation where the only games on it are shovelware as the system no longer has the power to meet what devs want to do. The novelty of taking home console games on the go might start to wear thin once devs other than Nintendo move on just like motion controls did. That being said it will likely last longer but that's just something worth thinking about.
I don’t know man. The Gameboy line has lasted a very long time because people enjoy being able to move around the house or on the go and still play games. Even when Nintendo’s home consoles were failing (WiiU) Nintendo was still fine thanks to the 3DS. I think they struck gold with this balance.
 
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I do want to bring up something. Remember the interview with the Takahashi brothers on Mario Tennis Aces where they talked about Golden Sun and compared it to Mario? Well, that interview happened when the game launched. In other words, they’re probably looking towards what their next project is going to be. Then, just a month or two after, we got the Rathalos tweet and the trademark. Now, isn’t it just a little strange that the last time Golden Sun even got mentioned was in 2012, 6 years of silence, then suddenly we get three significant things in the span of a couple months? But that isn’t all. Mario Tennis Aces referenced Golden Sun with the name of the sanctum. Now, this alone probably wouldn’t mean anything, but combined with something else does raise a bit of an eyebrow. Anyone else notice how Aces’ campaign was almost...RPG-like? There were even some RPG mechanics like leveling and stats, and it even had a somewhat RPGish overworld. Maybe, just maybe, they’re slowly preparing their team for their next project by doing this. A lot of questionable things. Nothing 100% concrete, but it does start to add up.
This is... interesting to think about. I really like the timing of all this, however. I think Aces was somewhat of an experiment, both for Camelot and the Mario Tennis series, and the generally positive response (I think?) to Aces' RPG-esqe story mode might help push Camelot towards a Golden Sun, but hopefully that won't be needed. I'm not sure how much water this holds, but we can throw onto the pile (and I do mean pile) of circumstantial evidence and "coincidences" going our way. Camelot's thinking about Golden Sun, but what comes out of it, nobody yet knows.

Quick edit: I was looking on VGChartz for Aces' sales data (1.44 mil, btw) and I discovered that Golden Sun has outsold Xenoblade lifetime. Xenoblade has 3.55 million across 5 games (XBC Wii, XBCX, XBC 3DS, XBC2, XBC2 Torna) while Golden Sun has 3.79 across three games (GS, TLA, DD). Not that this means anything, but it's just something to bring up if people try to suggest Xenoblade has sold more than Golden Sun (not to mention XB X and 2 were boasted by Shulk in Smash, while Golden Sun has always been on its own).
 
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No, by Switch successor I mean Wii U to the Wii. Or Super Nintendo to Nintendo Entertainment System. 3DS to DS. What else would I be talking about?

DSi was not a DS successor. That was a DS upgrade. A Switch upgrade probably happens during the third or fourth year. Not the sixth. Sixth year is when the console is on it's last legs and a brand new one is coming out.
I doubt Nintendo is going to upgrade it in the way that isolates early adapters of the Switch. That would just be a bad business decision, especially with how successful the Switch currently is.
 

Silo777

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Off topic here, who was the one who made that glorious video of Isaac edited into a My Hero Academia scene here? I have an idea that can be just as great given the circumstances we’re in. Unfortunately, I lack the skills and computer to do it. :/
That was me! One of the very first things I posted on this thread. Ah, how time flies...
 

SPEN18

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If you assume every two years (which I'm not fully confident in, I honestly think they were devving the last two Mario Tennis games with reduced teams and were potentially working on something else at the same time), then their first title is in the Switch's second year. Their second title will be in the fourth year, and the third title will be in the sixth year. By the sixth year, Switch is getting a successor announced and people aren't buying as many games. Whatever comes out is probably not going anywhere. This is where you should release something like Mario Golf.
Well I'll take a GS late in the Switch's lifetime over no GS at all. But yeah I definitely see the concern. I'd rather it be earlier on so that it can sell better.

But even if Mario Golf gets confirmed in the next Direct, I don't think that closes the door on GS.
 
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I don’t know man. The Gameboy line has lasted a very long time because people enjoy being able to move around the house or on the go and still play games. Even when Nintendo’s home consoles were failing (WiiU) Nintendo was still fine thanks to the 3DS. I think they struck gold with this balance.
Well that's the thing the Switch isn't Nintendo's handled it's their home console and they darn sure present it that way. Once the 3DS goes they are going to make something to replace it and the Switch might not look as good when there's another cheaper and newer handheld option and better home options.

I doubt Nintendo is going to upgrade it in the way that isolates early adapters of the Switch. That would just be a bad business decision, especially with how successful the Switch currently is.
You mean like PS4 did a PS4 Pro or Xbox did the X? It won't alienate people just give those who want the extra power the option for a premium and those who want cost efficiency a cheaper version.
 
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Well that's the thing the Switch isn't Nintendo's handled it's their home console and they darn sure present it that way. Once the 3DS goes they are going to make something to replace it and the Switch might not look as good when there's another cheaper and newer handheld option and better home options.
They will probably not make another handheld, they’ll just have the Switch as both pillars.
 
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They will probably not make another handheld, they’ll just have the Switch as both pillars.
If there were going to do that they would have from the start and consolidated the Switch into both their home and handheld system but they didn't. They made it very clear, the Switch is their home console you can take on the go out is not also their handheld console. The 3DS will eventually get a successor for sure despite making the Switch both would be a far better move but this is the path they are taking with the Switch at least at the moment.
 
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If there were going to do that they would have from the start and consolidated the Switch into both their home and handheld system but they didn't. They made it very clear, the Switch is their home console you can take on the go out is not also their handheld console. The 3DS will eventually get a successor for sure despite making the Switch both would be a far better move but this is the path they are taking with the Switch at least at the moment.
That the 3DS is still alive is just PR talk to me. I don’t see them making a follow-up.
 

StrawHatX

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If there were going to do that they would have from the start and consolidated the Switch into both their home and handheld system but they didn't. They made it very clear, the Switch is their home console you can take on the go out is not also their handheld console. The 3DS will eventually get a successor for sure despite making the Switch both would be a far better move but this is the path they are taking with the Switch at least at the moment.
I don’t think they plan on making another handheld line for awhile and there is one major reason for this. Pokemon. The mainline Pokemon games are coming out for the Switch. Those were the games they used to sell the handhelds. We’re getting Gen 8 on the Switch next year.
 

Nazyrus

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That the 3DS is still alive is just PR talk to me. I don’t see them making a follow-up.
Not to mention making a follow up would just get in the way of Switch sales. Switch should be the main focus and they would make way more money 100%, specially serving for both target audiences at the same time, home and handheld ones.
 

Sentinel07

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The 3DS is likely "still alive" due solely to the fact they are focused on getting people invested in the Switch a year or two later is likely when they will announce the 5DS or whatever.
Honestly speaking, I wish there could be a true 3DS successor.

Look, I love my Switch as much as the next guy, but I don't see it as a true portable. It's too bulky to take anywhere in my opinion, hence why I treat it as a regular home console while the 3DS is still my go-to system outside the house. It's much easier to carry around as it can fit in my pocket.

Plus....I've come to really love and appreciate the two-screen feature. I know many take it for granted and think it not necessary to keep going with, but I've loved the feature ever since the original DS.
 

StrawHatX

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Honestly speaking, I wish there could be a true 3DS successor.

Look, I love my Switch as much as the next guy, but I don't see it as a true portable. It's too bulky to take anywhere in my opinion, hence why I treat it as a regular home console while the 3DS is still my go-to system outside the house. It's much easier to carry around as it can fit in my pocket.

Plus....I've come to really love and appreciate the two-screen feature. I know many take it for granted and think it not necessary to keep going with, but I've loved the feature ever since the original DS.
Where do you go with a 3DS successor anyways? They went to dual screens and then to 3D. I mean I suppose they could just make the next one have better graphics, but Nintendo usually tries to come up with a new revolutionary idea.
 
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If there were going to do that they would have from the start and consolidated the Switch into both their home and handheld system but they didn't. They made it very clear, the Switch is their home console you can take on the go out is not also their handheld console. The 3DS will eventually get a successor for sure despite making the Switch both would be a far better move but this is the path they are taking with the Switch at least at the moment.
They did, they just don't want to admit it yet. If 3DS was getting a successor, it'd have it by now. The 3DS has been dead for years, Nintendo's just throwing the occasional game its way. Switch is the replacement to both lines, and the Switch will get a far more powerful following that effectively does the same thing the Switch does. Act as a hybrid console.
 
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Dark Samus had a Mii Costume and ended up playable
She was an Assist Trophy, never a Mii Costume.
Maybe Shadow, if they can't get the rights to him
If he's an Assist Trophy, Spirit with Super form, and player icon, then they have full rights to use him. It's just a matter of Sakurai picking and making a moveset for the character. I don't think SEGA would mind, especially if it were to tie into something like Team Sonic Racing or an Adventure 2 remake (please).
Everyone seems to be talking about Sephiroth a lot recently. Is he the front runner now for the first DLC character? I guess he would make sense with FF7 coming to the Switch next year.
He is on the list of Square characters heard about, and in my opinion it's either him or Geno. Hopefully we'll find out soon.
Plus, if Isaac was always going to be an Assist, what is up with his model? It doesn't match the quality of any of the others. Look at the other returning Assist: Gray Fox. His model is smoother, the textures are better, and he just looks fantastic. You may say that's because he's third-party, but how about Krystal, Tiki, or Vince? All three are new, first-party Assists, and all three look loads better than Isaac. None of this adds up for me, and I think it's all leading to something bigger for us.

For the Square character, I see Sora as the one. I'd like Geno, but I just have this feeling Sora's the one this time around.
That is not a solid argument, numerous ATs have lower-poly models like Zero, Alucard, Yuri, and Black Knight. Assists get less attention in the modelling process than actual fighters (this is the first game where Shadow's shoes aren't just blocks) because they aren't onscreen very long and have less functions. Isaac's model seems to fit in just fine with the others given his aesthetic, Gray Fox likely needed more polygons because he's more realistic.
 
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She was an Assist Trophy, never a Mii Costume.

If he's an Assist Trophy, Spirit with Super form, and player icon, then they have full rights to use him. It's just a matter of Sakurai picking and making a moveset for the character. I don't think SEGA would mind, especially if it were to tie into something like Team Sonic Racing or an Adventure 2 remake (please).

He is on the list of Square characters heard about, and in my opinion it's either him or Geno. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

That is not a solid argument, numerous ATs have lower-poly models like Zero, Alucard, Yuri, and Black Knight. Assists get less attention in the modelling process than actual fighters (this is the first game where Shadow's shoes aren't just blocks) because they aren't onscreen very long and have less functions. Isaac's model seems to fit in just fine with the others given his aesthetic, Gray Fox likely needed more polygons because he's more realistic.
Isaac's AT looks way worse than any other in the game though. Sure, Alucard obviously has a lower polygon count compared to the Belmonts, that's to be expected, but Isaac notably has a lower polygon count than Alucard, and less work put into textures and rigging as well. His stance just looks awkward, and his eyes are not right.
 
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Isaac's AT looks way worse than any other in the game though. Sure, Alucard obviously has a lower polygon count compared to the Belmonts, that's to be expected, but Isaac notably has a lower polygon count than Alucard, and less work put into textures and rigging as well. His stance just looks awkward, and his eyes are not right.
Again it's likely because Isaac only has a few animations and isn't onscreen very long. I doubt the devs are worried about making him look good so long as he is identifiable and functions properly.
 
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She was an Assist Trophy, never a Mii Costume.

If he's an Assist Trophy, Spirit with Super form, and player icon, then they have full rights to use him. It's just a matter of Sakurai picking and making a moveset for the character. I don't think SEGA would mind, especially if it were to tie into something like Team Sonic Racing or an Adventure 2 remake (please).

He is on the list of Square characters heard about, and in my opinion it's either him or Geno. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

That is not a solid argument, numerous ATs have lower-poly models like Zero, Alucard, Yuri, and Black Knight. Assists get less attention in the modelling process than actual fighters (this is the first game where Shadow's shoes aren't just blocks) because they aren't onscreen very long and have less functions. Isaac's model seems to fit in just fine with the others given his aesthetic, Gray Fox likely needed more polygons because he's more realistic.
But their textures still look good, as well. Isaac's sleeves and tunic end (skirt?) look pretty blocky for a game in 2018. Not to mention you can clearly see pixels on his face, specifically his eyes. His hands are a little off proportion as well. Isaac's model is noticeably poorer compared to the rest, which is a bit telling to me. Meanwhile, the hands look smooth as **** (almost better than some fighters), so perhaps that was repurposed from his playable incarnation while the model was too high-poly? They must have had to change his model, and probably somewhat last-second as well, showing why it doesn't look so good.
 

Kremling Man

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Yeah even though I've never played the series much I've fallen in love with Donkey Kong Country and am incredibly glad King K. Rool is in, great series with great protagonists and antagonists that Donkey Kong Country! Apperciate the support from our Golden brothers!

But that aside if Isaac, got in an Echo?

I'd say Felix or Matthew.
 
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