Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Lonodel]

Sephiroth is not getting in. There was zero demand for him, and even if Square had a say and was going for promotion, they wouldn't pick him.

I hear what your sayinf, i dont think sephiroth should be the square rep but after pirhanna plant i have no idea why they pick what they pick

 

[StrawHatX]

Sephiroth is not getting in. There was zero demand for him, and even if Square had a say and was going for promotion, they wouldn't pick him.

What? Why would Sephiroth not be a good pick for promotion? I literally just said FF7 and other FF ports are coming to the Switch next year. That benefits Square AND Nintendo. Who else would be a better promotional pick?

 

[NessAtc.]

What? Why would Sephiroth not be a good pick for promotion? I literally just said FF7 and other FF ports are coming to the Switch next year. That benefits Square AND Nintendo. Who else would be a better promotional pick?

Because there's plenty of other promotional picks that benefit Square greatly. Even if Square had a say (which I don't think they do), they would still push their new boy Noctis.

 

[StrawHatX]

Because there's plenty of other promotional picks that benefit Square greatly. Even if Square had a say (which I don't think they do), they would still push their new boy Noctis.

I mean... could you give me some examples? Because I’ve given you some pretty good reasons why Sephiroth would be a smart choice.

And I’ve never even played FF7 and I know who he is. Most gamers do. He’s an iconic villain. To say there is zero demand for him is definitely not true. In the Smash community he is probably on the lower tier of wanted SE characters, but this isn’t Sakurai making these choices. It’s NoJ and Square.

 

[NessAtc.]

I mean... could you give me some examples? Because I’ve given you some pretty good reasons why Sephiroth would be a smart choice.

And I’ve never even played FF7 and I know who he is. Most gamers do. He’s an iconic villain. To say there is zero demand for him is definitely not true. In the Smash community he is probably on the lower tier of wanted SE characters, but this isn’t Sakurai making these choices. It’s NoJ and Square.

I believe I've already brought this up, but it isn't non-smash players buying DLC. It's Smash players. Sakurai bothered with Cloud because people wanted an FF character, and Cloud was the most popular. FF doesn't have as much of a draw anymore now that Cloud's in, and the desire for more FF has largely gone away to other protagonists if any at all.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I mean... could you give me some examples? Because I’ve given you some pretty good reasons why Sephiroth would be a smart choice.

And I’ve never even played FF7 and I know who he is. Most gamers do. He’s an iconic villain. To say there is zero demand for him is definitely not true. In the Smash community he is probably on the lower tier of wanted SE characters, but this isn’t Sakurai making these choices. It’s NoJ and Square.

And no way in hell would NoJ choose Sephiroth over another FF game's character, a DQ character, or someone like Sora to try and convince Square to port the game over. Its completely ridiculous to even suggest it.

 

[StrawHatX]

I believe I've already brought this up, but it isn't non-smash players buying DLC. It's Smash players. Sakurai bothered with Cloud because people wanted an FF character, and Cloud was the most popular. FF doesn't have as much of a draw anymore now that Cloud's in, and the desire for more FF has largely gone away to other protagonists if any at all.

Well I’ll agree to disagree. When it comes to FF (as somebody who has never played any except for one on the SNES) the characters I always hear are Cloud and Sephiroth. FF7 is the game that’s always talked about more than others and it’s releasing on the Switch next year so I think Square wants to take advantage of that.

Btw I’m not wishing for Sephiroth, I just feel like he makes a ton of sense. I’d be totally down for any other Square character. As for the DLC selections I agree more hardcore Smash fans buy them, but Nintendo still likes to use them for promotional purposes too. Square would want to as well and they have a lot of FF coming to the Switch.

 

[WaddleMatt]

If Nintendo were to pick a FF character (I think Geno is who they would pick personally for a SE rep anyway) wouldn't it make sense to choose someone who had a legacy with Nintendo like Terra or someone anyway.

Either way I don't think another FF character is happening.

 

[StrawHatX]

If Nintendo were to pick a FF character (I think Geno is who they would pick personally for a SE rep anyway) wouldn't it make sense to choose someone who had a legacy with Nintendo like Terra or someone anyway.

Either way I don't think another FF character is happening.

Geno is like the one SE character I definitely don’t see happening. I know spirits don’t 100% deconfirm characters, but I think we have a Geno and Mallow spirit because Sakurai wanted some Geno representation in there since he won’t be a character. Geno does nothing for Square. I think Geno’s best chances were base roster with Sakurai picking them.

Sora would be cool but apparently all the leakers say he has no chance, or that’s what I’ve heard. But with KH3 coming out and we could maybe get KH and KH2 ports on the Switch in the future, why not Sora?

 

[WaddleMatt]

Geno is like the one SE character I definitely don’t see happening. I know spirits don’t 100% deconfirm characters, but I think we have a Geno and Mallow spirit because Sakurai wanted some Geno representation in there since he won’t be a character. Geno does nothing for Square.

I think it is more we have the spirits because SE won't let them use anything else.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think it is more we have the spirits because SE won't let them use anything else.

This exactly. SE is Geno or nobody because Square wouldn't license anything else out to Nintendo.

 

[_Sheik]

If Nintendo were to pick a FF character (I think Geno is who they would pick personally for a SE rep anyway) wouldn't it make sense to choose someone who had a legacy with Nintendo like Terra or someone anyway.

Either way I don't think another FF character is happening.

You could say that about Cloud too.

 

[StrawHatX]

I think it is more we have the spirits because SE won't let them use anything else.

I don’t see why that would be the case. Square and Nintendo have been really close lately and they’re even creating their own team to work exclusively on the Switch.

 

[Deleted member]

The Square Enix rep?

Hoping for Geno though looking like a Dragon Quest rep at this point.

Sephiroth would be rad him and Cloud clashing again whoa their battle is not over even in Smash.

Sora not e though would not mind.

 

[NessAtc.]

I don’t see why that would be the case. Square and Nintendo have been really close lately and they’re even creating their own team to work exclusively on the Switch.

Doesn't mean they're making things easy. We have substantial evidence pointing to the fact that Cloud was last/took the longest to be secured for the game, and was implemented in WoL in a way where he could be removed without too much work.

 

[StrawHatX]

Doesn't mean they're making things easy. We have substantial evidence pointing to the fact that Cloud was last/took the longest to be secured for the game, and was implemented in WoL in a way where he could be removed without too much work.

Well, I mentioned the Cloud thing in the main thread and according to a lot of people including Geno supporters that whole thing was apparently a bunch of bs.

I’d like to Geno more than any other SE rep because I really feel for the Geno fans, I just don’t see why Square would want to use him. He does nothing for them. Sora, Sephiroth, a DQ character, they all are more recognizable outside of the Smash bubble and also promote interest in their series. Geno unfortunately is from an old Mario game that’ll most likely never get a sequel since Nintendo moved on with other Mario RPG’s.

 

[WaddleMatt]

You could say that about Cloud too.

Sakurai chose Cloud not Nintendo.

 

[StrawHatX]

Sakurai chose Cloud not Nintendo.

I mean, don’t you think Sakurai wanted Geno first since he mentioned a few years ago he’d like him as a playable character yet Square probably said no and so he went with Cloud? So as a consolation prize Sakurai got the Geno costume for the Geno fans.

 

[Deleted member]

https://i.imgtc.com/1DeiiZr.png

Anyone seen this? Sure you guys did.

It's just a rumour.

Full credit to our boys in the Geno thread for it.

Sad if true. But hey we're trying to bring the games back and hopefully in the future Golden boy is in Smash.

 

[SonicLink125]

Man, next year (especially when it comes to the Smash DLC) is either going to be the wildest/most hype thing ever or the most disappointing/boring thing ever...or both?

It really makes you wonder what IS going on behind the scenes.

https://i.imgtc.com/1DeiiZr.png

Anyone seen this? Sure you guys did.

It's just a rumour.

Full credit to our boys in the Geno thread for it.

Sad if true. But hey we're trying to bring the games back and hopefully in the future Golden boy is in Smash.

Yeah, we saw that. Regardless if it’s true or not, it doesn’t change what our initial goal is: Bring back Golden Sun and eventually lead to a playable Isaac (or GS rep) in Smash.

I will say if its true, then we’ve made a dent to their “deft tone” ears and now we got to let them know that we are not a “small” group.

 

[NessAtc.]

I mean, don’t you think Sakurai wanted Geno first since he mentioned a few years ago he’d like him as a playable character yet Square probably said no and so he went with Cloud? So as a consolation prize Sakurai got the Geno costume for the Geno fans.

No, he's actually stated that Cloud was in response to Smash fans wanting an FF character, and Cloud being the most popular. Geno wasn't because he couldn't get him to be playable, it was because Cloud was the priority.

 

[StrawHatX]

Man, next year (especially when it comes to the Smash DLC) is either going to be the wildest/most hype thing ever or the most disappointing/boring thing ever...or both?

It really makes you wonder what IS going on behind the scenes.

Regardless of who is DLC I’ll buy it all any way because I have to have all the Smash Bros. stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

Think really hard if you want DLC,

I think that's the main thing.

My most wanted is in King K. Rool, so I'm content.

If you want the DLC get it.

If not don't because who knows what this DLC will be at this point.

 

[StrawHatX]

No, he's actually stated that Cloud was in response to Smash fans wanting an FF character, and Cloud being the most popular. Geno wasn't because he couldn't get him to be playable, it was because Cloud was the priority.

Fair enough. I just think the notion of Square not allowing Sakurai or Nintendo to use any other character other than Geno is ridiculous based on their relationship with each other over the last few years.

 

[Deleted member]

Whoever the Square rep us I'm content.

But let's see what happens.

Wonder if their the first character shown.

 

[FlawedAI]

In regards to the new info on DLC, I personally doubt it. I share the same doubts on why a NoA employee would have detailed info on Sakurai's thought process, or even any of the higher-ups at NoA. The only ones that needed to know were NoJ, so they could negotiate deals with third-parties. Plus, if Isaac was always going to be an Assist, what is up with his model? It doesn't match the quality of any of the others. Look at the other returning Assist: Gray Fox. His model is smoother, the textures are better, and he just looks fantastic. You may say that's because he's third-party, but how about Krystal, Tiki, or Vince? All three are new, first-party Assists, and all three look loads better than Isaac. None of this adds up for me, and I think it's all leading to something bigger for us.

For the Square character, I see Sora as the one. I'd like Geno, but I just have this feeling Sora's the one this time around.

 

[StrawHatX]

Back to Golden Sun though, if there was a time in the future where we already had Isaac in Smash and we could get one Echo and one Villain, who would you want.

For the Echo character of Isaac I’d obviously want Felix because he’s my favorite character and I’d like for the second protagonist to have a spot.

For the villain spot Saturos or Menardi would be great, but I’d want Alex. He could even have an alt costume where he wears his mask.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Man, next year (especially when it comes to the Smash DLC) is either going to be the wildest/most hype thing ever or the most disappointing/boring thing ever...or both?

It really makes you wonder what IS going on behind the scenes.



Yeah, we saw that. Regardless if it’s true or not, it doesn’t change what our initial goal is: Bring back Golden Sun and eventually lead to a playable Isaac (or GS rep) in Smash.

I will say if its true, then we’ve made a dent to their “deft tone” ears and now we got to let them know that we are not a “small” group.

Drawing Nintendo's attention to Isaac is a good start. Getting them to acknowledge Isaac is the 1st step, convincing them to put a team together to make another Golden Sun game and make it a priority title will be the challenging part.

Our focus should be getting a new Golden Sun game that will bring the franchise into Nintendo's big titles. If Golden Sun gets big then it will undoubtedly stick around and Smash Brothers will give Isaac a spot as a result.

We just need to somehow convince Nintendo that gathering a team of developers to create/remaster Golden Sun will be worth the investment.

 

[SonicLink125]

Drawing Nintendo's attention to Isaac is a good start. Getting them to acknowledge Isaac is the 1st step, convincing them to put a team together to make another Golden Sun game and make it a priority title will be the challenging part.

Our focus should be getting a new Golden Sun game that will bring the franchise into Nintendo's big titles. If Golden Sun gets big then it will undoubtedly stick around and Smash Brothers will give Isaac a spot as a result.

We just need to somehow convince Nintendo that gathering a team of developers to create/remaster Golden Sun will be worth the investment.

Personally, I think it would be a great investment. Octopath Traveler has proven that people are hungry for Turn-Based RPGs and Golden Sun can easily satisfy that hunger and I hope Nintendo really saw that.

My only worry is this: Will they at least give the Takahashi Bros. and Camelot a full fledge team to help on such a project?

 

[StrawHatX]

Think really hard if you want DLC,

I think that's the main thing.

My most wanted is in King K. Rool, so I'm content.

If you want the DLC get it.

If not don't because who knows what this DLC will be at this point.

Other than Isaac K. Rool has always been my most wanted Nintendo character by far. Very happy to have him in the game. I hope the next DKC game has him back as the main villain.

I still haven’t played DKC Tropical Freeze. I really need to get on that.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Personally, I think it would be a great investment. Octopath Traveler has proven that people are hungry for Turn-Based RPGs and Golden Sun can easily satisfy that hunger and I hope Nintendo really saw that.

My only worry is this: Will they at least give the Takahashi Bros. and Camelot a full fledge team to help on such a project?

The pro behind building up Golden Sun is having a Traditional RPG that they have no licensing worries; especially, if an in house team of developers make the game. Square could just not allow the developers who worked on Ocotpath Traveler to make a sequel.

The con behind building up Golden Sun is the investment with no promises of returns. Not to mention that Nintendo might believe Octopath Traveler is all they need and would find reviving Golden Sun too consuming of a task when a preexisting series has already proven itself.

Having their own Traditional RPG series like Golden Sun would benefit Nintendo greatly; however, doing so would take time, man power and tons of investment. The only benefit that Golden Sun has is that it has a cult following and has no problem licensing wise.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Other than Isaac K. Rool has always been my most wanted Nintendo character by far. Very happy to have him in the game. I hope the next DKC game has him back as the main villain.

I still haven’t played DKC Tropical Freeze. I really need to get on that.

I'm the opposite. K. Rool was my most wanted and Isaac second. Definitely get DKC TF, its incredible. Only real weaknesses are lack of Animal Buddies and lack of Kremlings, though TF's Snomads still are solid enemies in general.


I'm fully expecting a new DK to get announced with K. Rool as the antagonist.

 

[StrawHatX]

The pro behind building up Golden Sun is having a Traditional RPG that they have no licensing worries; especially, if an in house team of developers make the game. Square could just not allow the developers who worked on Ocotpath Traveler to make a sequel.

The con behind building up Golden Sun is the investment with no promises of returns. Not to mention that Nintendo might believe Octopath Traveler is all they need and would find reviving Golden Sun too consuming of a task when a preexisting series has already proven itself.

Having their own Traditional RPG series like Golden Sun would benefit Nintendo greatly; however, doing so would take time, man power and tons of investment. The only benefit that Golden Sun has is that it has a cult following and has no problem licensing wise.

If Camelot doesn’t have the manpower or resources to work on a sequel right now Nintendo could always have another company remaster the first two games on the Switch. Grezzo (I think it was) did an amazing job on Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask for the 3DS.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

If Camelot doesn’t have the manpower or resources to work on a sequel right now Nintendo could always have another company remaster the first two games on the Switch. Grezzo (I think it was) did an amazing job on Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask for the 3DS.

The main reason to have Camelot making the game is series direction. Main developers who worked on the original Golden Sun have left, but the Dark Dawn team should still be around.

Nintendo benefits most from their in house studios' talents and variety of skills, the issue is utilizing them properly and investing money.

The Takahashi brothers should remain head of game direction to maintain series familiarity. Grezzo are good programmers and look to be promising. Monolith Soft's world building team would be good to have. Camelot for Djinn engine.

The only issue is putting these groups of developers together and under one management director.

Edit: Our saving grace right now is that Camelot and Grezzo are not busy at the moment with any projects.

 

[SPEN18]

DKC Tropical Freeze

It wasn't as good as Returns for me, but it was still solid.

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Personally, I don't think Sephiroth would be the Square rep. I also wouldn't think that mere ports are something that a company is gonna try to heavily push via a Smash character. But honestly I don't really have any idea who the Square rep would be.

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Grezzo (I think it was) did an amazing job on Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask for the 3DS.

They also recently did Luigi's Mansion on 3DS.

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IMO the biggest thing going for Golden Sun right now is the fact that Camelot's already made Mario Tennis and I can't see them doing more than one more Mario Sports game on the Switch, be that Mario Golf or something like Mario Sports Superstars. We have time, guys, we just gotta keep pluggin away.

Also, I am just now noticing that Mario Sports Superstars (3DS, 2017) was codeveloped with Bandai Namco. So there is a precedent for Camelot going to outside companies. Seems like Bandai Namco may have done a lot of the programming, but Google lists the Takahashi brothers as the designers.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It wasn't as good as Returns for me, but it was still solid.

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Personally, I don't think Sephiroth would be the Square rep. I also wouldn't think that mere ports are something that a company is gonna try to heavily push via a Smash character. But honestly I don't really have any idea who the Square rep would be.

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They also recently did Luigi's Mansion on 3DS.

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IMO the biggest thing going for Golden Sun right now is the fact that Camelot's already made Mario Tennis and I can't see them doing more than one more Mario Sports game on the Switch, be that Mario Golf or something like Mario Sports Superstars. We have time, guys, we just gotta keep pluggin away.

Also, I am just now noticing that Mario Sports Superstars (3DS, 2017) was codeveloped with Bandai Namco. So there is a precedent for Camelot going to outside companies. Seems like Bandai Namco may have done a lot of the programming, but Google lists the Takahashi brothers as the designers.

After one more Mario Sports game on Switch there's no time left. However, GS has a new trademark and Mario Golf does not. Mario Golf also hasn't been particularly successful recently either. So I think both these things are rather telling. Also, Mario Sports Superstars was primarily developed by Bandai Namco. Camelot merely provided the source code for Golf and Tennis.

 

[StrawHatX]

The main reason to have Camelot making the game is series direction. Main developers who worked on the original Golden Sun have left, but the Dark Dawn team should still be around.

Nintendo benefits most from their in house studios' talents and variety of skills, the issue is utilizing them properly and investing money.

The Takahashi brothers should remain head of game direction to maintain series familiarity. Grezzo are good programmers and look to be promising. Monolith Soft's world building team would be good to have. Camelot for Djinn engine.

The only issue is putting these groups of developers together and under one management director.

Edit: Our saving grace right now is that Camelot and Grezzo are not busy at the moment with any projects.

The only thing that worries me with the Takahashi brothers is last I heard they really wanted to work on Shining Force again. So if they did Golden Sun once more I just hope their heart is in it. I’m sure it would be, but they haven’t been as vocal about returning to GS. I’m sure they’re disappointed with DD’s results, but still.

I hope they see how much people want Isaac/GS back and it brings back that drive for them. With Aces done I hope Camelot doesn’t have much more on their slate and can focus on a new GS. Do we know any future games Camelot has up next? I know they’ll probably do some more Aces DLC at least.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The only thing that worries me with the Takahashi brothers is last I heard they really wanted to work on Shining Force again. So if they did Golden Sun once more I just hope their heart is in it. I’m sure it would be, but they haven’t been as vocal about returning to GS. I’m sure they’re disappointed with DD’s results, but still.

Shining Force is owned by Sega as of now. They might leave Nintendo to work at Sega and make a Shining Force or just try to contract with Nintendo to allow them to work on a Switch Exclusive Shining Force.

I hope they see how much people want Isaac/GS back and it brings back that drive for them. With Aces done I hope Camelot doesn’t have much more on their slate and can focus on a new GS. Do we know any future games Camelot has up next? I know they’ll probably do some more Aces DLC at least.

So Camelot has few developers were they needed Bandai Namco to help with the sports titles? That is honestly not a good sign. Alright, this shows that Camelot may not have the man power to develop a AAA title that many Golden Sun fans would want; however, I am thinking maybe making a game like those from the Gamecube days might work. Take a game that is not as expansive, but has tons of content to delve into and uses cel shaded graphics to limit costs on the graphics teams.

 

[WaddleMatt]

So Camelot has few developers were they needed Bandai Namco to help with the sports titles? That is honestly not a good sign. Alright, this shows that Camelot may not have the man power to develop a AAA title that many Golden Sun fans would want; however, I am thinking maybe making a game like those from the Gamecube days might work. Take a game that is not as expansive, but has tons of content to delve into and uses cel shaded graphics to limit costs on the graphics teams.

Sports Superstars or whatever its called was made by Bandai Namco they just used some of Camelot's source code for parts of it.

 

[SPEN18]

After one more Mario Sports game on Switch there's no time left. However, GS has a new trademark and Mario Golf does not. Mario Golf also hasn't been particularly successful recently either. So I think both these things are rather telling. Also, Mario Sports Superstars was primarily developed by Bandai Namco. Camelot merely provided the source code for Golf and Tennis.

Why is there no time after another Mario Sports game? Camelot seems to release a game every couple of years.

Of course, we don't yet know how long the Switch will last, and we'd prefer not to hit the end of the console's lifetime again, so I see the concern.

And yeah, I just quickly looked at a vid of the credits and didn't see the Takahashi bros. Sorry for not double checking.