Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[True Blue Warrior]

Don’t forget that around this part Sakurai seems to be treating the Bomberman Mii costume similarly to a full playable character. Pay attention to how he describes the costume.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

We have had DLC Mii costumes based on assist trophies before with Takamaru and Ashley in Smash 4. This one is a little special because it looks identical to the assist since they both use the Super Bomberman R model. Regardless I feel Isaac has enough in his favor for him to be a good enough contender for DLC

 

[Guynamednelson]

This one is a little special because it looks identical to the assist since they both use the Super Bomberman R model

I was actually thinking among the lines of how Sakurai specifically brought up Bomberman as being an AT character who has a Mii costume, but that works too.

 

[Xenigma]

Personally, my Isaac-tinted glasses saw Bomberman's Mii costume as a very good thing. It's further confirmation that revisions to base-game content are on the table, particularly regarding characters/franchises that players clearly wanted more of. Min Min and the corresponding ARMS content very much felt like that, and while Bomberman is just a costume at the end of the day, it's one of the highest quality costumes we've gotten, as if to try to appease fans despite not making the cut for full-fledged character. It's in no way a confirmation that Isaac or Golden Sun is getting anything in FP2, but it sure does feel increasingly plausible.

Also, I'm just amused that Travis Touchdown went from speculation to confirmed so dang quickly. Guess that "no comment" was the real deal after all!

 

[Nazyrus]

Personally, my Isaac-tinted glasses saw Bomberman's Mii costume as a very good thing. It's further confirmation that revisions to base-game content are on the table, particularly regarding characters/franchises that players clearly wanted more of. Min Min and the corresponding ARMS content very much felt like that, and while Bomberman is just a costume at the end of the day, it's one of the highest quality costumes we've gotten, as if to try to appease fans despite not making the cut for full-fledged character. It's in no way a confirmation that Isaac or Golden Sun is getting anything in FP2, but it sure does feel increasingly plausible.

Also, I'm just amused that Travis Touchdown went from speculation to confirmed so dang quickly. Guess that "no comment" was the real deal after all!

Yeah Bomberman literally broke the final sillyness of the AT rule that was already broken imo. ATs can be upgraded to a playable form if desired, period, proved by bomberman, which is no different from being a fighter in the end, only difference is just having a unique moveset and … bigger body lol.

Yeah I think Suda51 not only was under NDA but also just didn't want to get people's hopes up, but sadly , as usual, people take that type of thing as good lead since they dont know the reason behind the "no comment" thing… It's too dangerous to rely on such things

 

[ZelDan]

I didn't really take Sakurai's comment on Bomberman as a hit against ATs.

If you just look at it as a straight forward comment, it's just simply him saying "Hey this character is already in the game in some form, but I'm giving you another way to play him!" No more no less. There's nothing about the comment that really says that Sakurai is against making an AT character a playable, unique character.

 

[Kalaam]

It almost looks like Sakurai is slowly hinting at an Assist being upgraded
First a spirit becomes a fighter.
Then an assist gets a mii costume.
What would next step be ? (Total tinfoil, just joking but who knows)

 

[Gioka]

I agree that the Bomberman promotion is a good thing, as well as with MinMin, it means the team is willing to go back to base game and reevaluate the characters that missed the cut then. We might get an AT promotion to playable for the fan requested character of the pass, though tbh I'd feel much more certain on Isaac's chances if we got the GS remakes at least teased officially. Not to say he isn't one of the more popular options, but I could also see the team go for Waluigi or even Geno as the fan demanded pick (and not upgrade any AT)

 

[chocolatejr9]

In other news, I noticed you guys talk about Sveta a lot, so I figured I'd go a head and share this:

Sveta
First appearance: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn (DS)
A beastman princess, and one of the game's playable characters. Her enhanced senses allow her to read others' minds and render scents visible. pic.twitter.com/01ZYw7RI7F

— Obscure Nintendo Characters (@oncotd) October 4, 2020

Same account I posted the last one from. At least someone remembers Dark Dawn, huh?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I could also see the team go for Waluigi or even Geno as the fan demanded pick

Well it isn't exactly smooth sailing for either or them. Millions were disappointed by Waluigi's AT still being a thing, but he has the burden of needing to fill out a challenger pack, and Min Min and Steve had too many resources put into them to dedicate time to a bonus fighter (except for their animations in Steve's case, but coding/balancing is another story). Geno can fill out a challenger pack with the lack of a stage and music from SMRPG as well as the only two SMRPG spirits being him and Mallow, but (hopefully coincidentally) it seems Nintendo did not choose ANY of the third-party Mii costumes to promote to fighters. We keep seeing them come back one by one.

 

[NessAtc.]

Huh? I guess I don't understand. Wouldn't that already have been thrown out when Isaac was both an AT and a Mii costume in Ultimate?

I don't see Assist Trophies and Mii costumes as contradicting each other at all, because... Mii costumes are just that, costumes. Whereas Assist Trophies are the actual character themselves showing up to assist.

Isaac's Mii costume is obviously not Isaac himself. Mii costumes are Miis in costumes that look like characters. Like cosplaying, essentially. The Assist Trophy, however, is Isaac himself. This is a distinction.

I don't see any problem with these two coexisting, but an Assist Trophy coexisting with a playable character is much more strange, for the reasons I listed above. This is why spirits, Mii costumes, etc. are not as solid (although I do think Mii costumes are effectively saying "this character will not be playable", TBH).

(Yes, there are strange cases of characters showing up in multiple rules that break this logic, it doesn't mean that it's a standard. It means that it's not completely and totally impossible for Isaac or any other ATs to be upgraded, but it most certainly doesn't make it likely)

then turn off the AT when he's on the field playable? IDFK, you're making way too much of a deal of this imo

 

[Gioka]

Well it isn't exactly smooth sailing for either or them. Millions were disappointed by Waluigi's AT still being a thing, but he has the burden of needing to fill out a challenger pack, and Min Min and Steve had too many resources put into them to dedicate time to a bonus fighter (except for their animations in Steve's case, but coding/balancing is another story). Geno can fill out a challenger pack with the lack of a stage and music from SMRPG as well as the only two SMRPG spirits being him and Mallow, but (hopefully coincidentally) it seems Nintendo did not choose ANY of the third-party Mii costumes to promote to fighters. We keep seeing them come back one by one.

I understand both of those but if we are talking solely on fan demand I could see either of those 3 being picked, obviously Geno and Isaac seem to be a better fit for the stage and music part of the bundle, but I am sure of they wanted Waluigi they could still sort something out.

However, regarding the mii costumes part, I understand it too, but I'd be genuinely surprised if we don't get another Square Enix rep in this fighter pass after they have had two spirit events. We know Square Enix are not the most generous third party regarding their content so I'd think all that "free stuff" comes with something they will actually profit from later down the line.

 

[Monue]

The Trophy and Mii stuff seem more irrelevant to me than ever before. Sakurai has hinted that if Nintendo wants something done, it's gonna get done - whether it requires editing the code of every single stage in the entire game like with Steve, or upgrading a spirit/trophy based on who the IP controlling company wants for their representative as with Minmin (who could have potentially been Springman had they wanted that).

Base game these things were consolation prizes, with the DLC these characters are chosen with a clear agenda of Nintendo's. Unless it's simply impossible, Sakurai's going to give the okay - whether they have to adjust a few minor (or hell, major as with Steve) things or not.

That said, I've had a growing concern that Isaac isn't happening. Just an intuition thing, like vibing with the frequencies of the universe has lead me to some dark conclusion - it just seems like a pipe dream all of a sudden. I hope I'm wrong of course! It's entirely possible that it's been a growing concern of mine simply because... every single other possible thing that I've wanted or hoped this year recently has crashed and failed miserably for one reason or another.

 

[Dendros]

I still have hope for Isaac based on the following evidence:

1. - The Rathalos Tweet from Sakurai himself showing the Camelot angle like in golden sun. They could have bene working on Isaac but he got pushed back or something. Maybe to coincide with the release of golden sun 4 that they decided on. Why would he recreate and draw attention to this specific scene that he knows everyone will see like a scene from golden sun. My theory is that Isaac got pushed back (Again probably to coincide with Camelot's future game) But Sakurai knew how much fans wanted Isaac, so he threw together this little clue sort of like saying "Now is not yet the time. But don't give up hope" He also put in Isaac as an AT over fear of fan backlash over lack of golden sun content like there was in Smash 4. This picture can still be seen on the smash bros website when you view the Rathalos AT
2. - The trademark for a new golden sun. Those trademarks are expensive to file for and they would have needed to show proof of concept and some early work at least. Couple this with the fact that Camelot hasn't released anything since 2018's Mario tennis aces and they usually release a Mario sports game every 1-2 years like clockwork. (Jun 2018). the trademark was filed in September of 2018 and approved in the spring of 2019. This would give Camelot 6 months after Mario tennis to plan and develop a proof of concept to apply for the trademark in fall of 2018. The trademark is classified under the same category as other switch single player games like BOTW. This is also right around the time that they would be seeing JRPGs having huge success on the switch. I think until "Mario golf switch" or something is announced from Camelot, I will firmly believe they are working on the next Golden Sun and we will hear about it near E3 time 2021 for a November 2021 release date or maybe spring 2022. Golden sun was brought back once after 8 years to mild success. It seems like they want to try it again after 10 years now.
3. - All of the specific language used in favor of assist trophies when talking about playable characters based on them (Salurai treated spring man as being a totally viable character from ARMS, and his statement about bomberman being an AT that you can play as too). Nothing along the lines of "They are an AT so therefore they cannot be playable" has ever been said and language like that is seemingly avoided on purpose.
4. The Smash ballot poll data we have shows Isaac right behind K. Rool in requests. Smash Ballot 2018 aggregate data. I can see the final 4 being the final heavily requested characters from the polls, Isaac, Geno, bandanna dee, Sora. Something like this would be a nice DLC finish for both the west and japan.

Steve was in development since 2015 at least, Isaac could have been in development longer but after seeing the success of the switch and JRPGs on the switch Nintendo wanted to bring Golden Sun to the switch and plans to release Isaac as a fighter before to promote the game were made. With each Nintendo direct that doesn't include news of a Mario sports game, This theory looks more and more likely. Dark dawn took about 4-5 years to fully develop at most. Therefore we shouldn't give up hope until late 2022. Smash could also receive more DLC up until the end of the switch's life sometime in 2022 or 2023.

Our future is looking bright. Keep an eye out for the sunrise.

 

[Pinguino21v]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

 

[SharkLord]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

In my defense, I covered 10 possible characters instead of four so I added to more overall totals, Isaac included. A little under half were safe picks, the others were fairly overlooked.

 

[7NATOR]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

As someone that didn't put in Isaac in that thread

I think Isaac actually has good shot...I just don't predict him at the moment, because I'm predicting the other characters first. Also when it comes to Assist Promotions, I always gotta Stand with Shadow.

 

[Nazyrus]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

I think it's as simple as none of them actually wanting Isaac therefore there is no reason for them to be paying attention, since honestly most of their predictions are probably based on what they like / want, lol, which is totally fine I guess.

 

[Kalaam]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

Since the characters ending up in passes are always those they tend to ignore, that's actually good for us !

 

[MeatOfJustice]

All of the specific language used in favor of assist trophies when talking about playable characters based on them (Salurai treated spring man as being a totally viable character from ARMS, and his statement about bomberman being an AT that you can play as too). Nothing along the lines of "They are an AT so therefore they cannot be playable" has ever been said and language like that is seemingly avoided on purpose.

I think there's a small chance that he considers ATs not being elegible for upgrades as something obvious for the viewers.

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

Most probably don't know about the trademark.

 

[amageish]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

I think it's partly just that people, when challenged to just name 4 characters, tend to go for the biggest names that they have already seen discussed a lot. Isaac's speculation is comparatively-contained and not as mainstream as Rex/Sword-Shield/Ryu/all-the-other-ones-coming-up-over-and-over.

I imagine Isaac's chances in the eyes of the general public would go up if a GSHD was announced...

 

[chocolatejr9]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

In my defense, I just think Rex and Euden are more likely at the moment. As it stands, that trademark is nothing but a trademark, so I have to act accordingly. If it actually pans out, then I'll consider it.

Since the characters ending up in passes are always those they tend to ignore, that's actually good for us !

Hooray! Another Fire Emblem character!

 

[SharkLord]

Since the characters ending up in passes are always those they tend to ignore, that's actually good for us !

I mean, we have accurately predicted some characters before. It's just that not all of us predicted them for various reasons.

• Hero was overlooked due to lack of Western popularity, and only got the attention they did because of the leak.
• Banjo was too irrelevant and unprofitable, and was overshadowed by Steve, who had all that.
• Byleth was considered too recent, and was expected for FP2 rather than FP1.
• Steve, ironically, became overshadowed by Master Chief like her he overshadowed Banjo, and this time it's because MC was the earth-shaking pie-in-the-sky character.

So basically, if we have both eyes on the prize, we won't reach it. If we have only one, they're fine. If there's no eyes on them, start looking at them before they blindside you and hit you in the face.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It is somewhat infuriating to see all these "end of pass 2" predictions in the Speculation and rate Their Chance threads with a lot of Rex, SwSh Pokémon, Waluigi, and even Euden, BWD or Dixie, meanwhile everyone is skipping Isaac. Are they oblivious or are we complete fools to believe in his chance?

To me it's just that I can't bring myself to expect Isaac after being burned so much. I do believe in everything that he has going for him but in my mind if I actually start to expect him I'll just be disappointed again.

 

[TempestSurge]

I still have hope for Isaac based on the following evidence:

1. - The Rathalos Tweet
2. - The trademark for a new golden sun.
3. - All of the specific language used in favor of assist trophies
4. The Smash ballot poll data

Steve was in development since 2015 at least, Isaac could have been in development longer but after seeing the success of the switch and JRPGs on the switch Nintendo wanted to bring Golden Sun to the switch and plans to release Isaac as a fighter before to promote the game were made. With each Nintendo direct that doesn't include news of a Mario sports game, This theory looks more and more likely. Dark dawn took about 4-5 years to fully develop at most. Therefore we shouldn't give up hope until late 2022. Smash could also receive more DLC up until the end of the switch's life sometime in 2022 or 2023.

Our future is looking bright. Keep an eye out for the sunrise.

I think another thing to note is Smash Ultimate in general had such few newcomers that that there was only one new first party franchises added in Splatoon. I was so sure that Isaac and Springman were a lock because of that. Then when I saw that they were assist trophies, I felt it was more so Sakurai trying to represent as much franchises as he could vs it just being a massive 'deconfirm party' lol.

Fast forward and an arms rep is announced, who likely would have been in the base game as one of the new franchises anyways. I feel like Isaac is also in that boat, not being enough time to add those new first party franchises in base so they were made assist trophies to compensate. Since Sakurai also doesn't hold out content in base just because of potential DLC. It also took till like the last direct for Isaac/Springman to even make an appearance compared to Waluigi's assist trophy bandage was ripped off in the first direct.

Even though Isaac's assist didn't make an appearance in 4. It'd be a bit odd for Nintendo to leave it out again in Ultimate when they started the process for a new golden sun game in 2018.

 

[jweb23]

In my defense, I just think Rex and Euden are more likely at the moment. As it stands, that trademark is nothing but a trademark, so I have to act accordingly. If it actually pans out, then I'll consider it.

Hooray! Another Fire Emblem character!

To be honest...I don’t think Rex has a chance. Considering Steve was in negotiations for roughly 5 years, this could mean Fighters Pass 2 was having it’s characters/game series at least selected before Fighters Pass 1 was announced. So it’s difficult for me to imagine Sakurai making that Rex mii costume as a bonus for buying FP1 if Rex was being planned for FP2.

Of course I could be wrong but right now...I don’t have high hopes for Rex’s inclusion.

 

[TempestSurge]

To be honest...I don’t think Rex has a chance. Considering Steve was in negotiations for roughly 5 years, this could mean Fighters Pass 2 was having it’s characters/game series at least selected before Fighters Pass 1 was announced. So it’s difficult for me to imagine Sakurai making that Rex mii costume as a bonus for buying FP1 if Rex was being planned for FP2.

Of course I could be wrong but right now...I don’t have high hopes for Rex’s inclusion.

Then again Arms did get an assist despite now having a playable character in the 2nd pass. I do like the idea of the 2nd pass not being initially planned until sometime later cause there's possibilty for Isaac to be in this pass as part of the waves of disappointment expressed in the last direct.

On that note, I was more for Elma so I always dreaded Rex as inevitable, until Ultimate had the fewer newcomer notification, I just think his Mii Costume is compensation. Though on the off chance that Rex is added in this pass. My loose predictions in the beginning of Ultimate (when I thought they would have a normal amount of newcomers) were new franchises rep for Arms and Golden Sun, and existing franchises rep for Xenoblade and Donkey Kong.

Though with only four slots left, I'm of course hoping they add more newcomers from new first party franchises over existing ones (on top of also having to compete with third parties).

 

[Nazyrus]

Hey guys lets vote for Isaac in this fan poll Every bit of awareness we can bring everywhere is always good, even post negotiation of the pass.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch

Learn more about Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch™ on the official site from Nintendo.

www.globalsmashroster.com

Just for fun! Plus the site design looks nice haha.

 

[Xenigma]

Friendly reminder that fellow Isaac fan Billybae10K is doing a new season of Rate Their Chances videos, with the first right here. Not rating Isaac himself yet, but that'll come soon enough I'm sure. Everything seems fairly argued, even if I think the actual chance scores are a bit too high overall given we only have four slots left, and I'm looking forward to seeing the series again as FP2 continues to progress.

 

[jweb23]

Then again Arms did get an assist despite now having a playable character in the 2nd pass. I do like the idea of the 2nd pass not being initially planned until sometime later cause there's possibilty for Isaac to be in this pass as part of the waves of disappointment expressed in the last direct.

But remember that was base game stuff! I doubt Sakurai wanted to leave out first party games as I’m sure sells impacted how many dlc characters they would make and there is no guarantee FP2 would be green lit.

If I remember correctly, base roster was decided late 2015-early 2016. Based on the info about Steve, it’s safe to say negotiations for third party characters started around that time. Considering Joker was revealed in December 2018 and released in April 2019, I think it’s safe to say FP1 characters were finalized mid 2018 and they were already midway/finishing negotiations with third parties for FP2. Considering Nintendo is handling the potential characters, I highly doubt Sakurai wouldn’t already know what first party characters are getting in, so making that Rex mii costume as a bonus gives me pause in assuming Rex has a serious chance.

But as I said in my last post...that’s just how I’m seeing things. For all we know, he could be revealed next.

 

[isaac3000]

Tried to vote, then it asked me to sign in, no time for that too boring sorry.

By the way I love how Steve is -1 hahaha sorry Steve fans, I just don't like Minecraft in any capacity or form.....

EDIT: I thought Billy said he wouldn't do the Rate their Chances videos anymore?

 

[Pinguino21v]

• Steve, ironically, became overshadowed by Master Chief like her he overshadowed Banjo, and this time it's because MC was the earth-shaking pie-in-the-sky character.

And this time it's Phoenix, overshadowed by Dante.

Phoenix is in.

 

[SonicLink125]

The Sun & Moon Bros. (Isaac & Skull Kid)
How did they end up in the void?
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/VOMkLPJvgc

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) October 5, 2020

I swear, Mii Skull Kid feels like a Deluxe Mii in a way. Haha.

EDIT: I thought Billy said he wouldn't do the Rate their Chances videos anymore?

After seeing Steve getting in, he got extremely motivated to do the series again. This is more of a passion project rather than a job this time around. He will be re-rating Isaac sometime later down the line and I can’t wait to see that!

 

[Nazyrus]

The Sun & Moon Bros. (Isaac & Skull Kid)
How did they end up in the void?
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/VOMkLPJvgc

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) October 5, 2020

I swear, Mii Skull Kid feels like a Deluxe Mii in a way. Haha.


After seeing Steve getting in, he got extremely motivated to do the series again. This is more of a passion project rather than a job this time around. He will be re-rating Isaac sometime later down the line and I can’t wait to see that!

That brings me so many memories of my old pfp… still my biggest wants even if Skull kid I have no hopes anymore because of Nintendo's stubborn ass with Zelda new representation…

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

To be honest...I don’t think Rex has a chance. Considering Steve was in negotiations for roughly 5 years, this could mean Fighters Pass 2 was having it’s characters/game series at least selected before Fighters Pass 1 was announced. So it’s difficult for me to imagine Sakurai making that Rex mii costume as a bonus for buying FP1 if Rex was being planned for FP2.

Of course I could be wrong but right now...I don’t have high hopes for Rex’s inclusion.

Negotiations for Steve was just the usual business talks they have and is much different than finally deciding that the deal will go down and going through the process of planning and development which most likely happened when the DLC talks started to happen. These happened around the time Minecraft came to the Wii U so this was a while back. First party characters especially can be negotiated and planned at a much faster rate due to the lack of licensing loops to go through

 

[NessAtc.]

The Smash ballot poll data we have shows Isaac right behind K. Rool in requests. Smash Ballot 2018 aggregate data. I can see the final 4 being the final heavily requested characters from the polls, Isaac, Geno, bandanna dee, Sora. Something like this would be a nice DLC finish for both the west and japan.

Steve was in development since 2015 at least, Isaac could have been in development longer but after seeing the success of the switch and JRPGs on the switch Nintendo wanted to bring Golden Sun to the switch and plans to release Isaac as a fighter before to promote the game were made. With each Nintendo direct that doesn't include news of a Mario sports game, This theory looks more and more likely. Dark dawn took about 4-5 years to fully develop at most. Therefore we shouldn't give up hope until late 2022. Smash could also receive more DLC up until the end of the switch's life sometime in 2022 or 2023.

Our future is looking bright. Keep an eye out for the sunrise.

I strongly doubt we'll get more than two ballot characters. Nintendo is the one picking the entire pass, so I think it's very likely we'll only get one in fact.
Steve has not been in development since 2015. That's not what was said. All that was said was they had been talking about it since 2015. It's no different from how Ubisoft keeps discussing Rayman, only it actually ended up leading to a fighter.

 

[Guynamednelson]

To be honest...I don’t think Rex has a chance. Considering Steve was in negotiations for roughly 5 years, this could mean Fighters Pass 2 was having it’s characters/game series at least selected before Fighters Pass 1 was announced. So it’s difficult for me to imagine Sakurai making that Rex mii costume as a bonus for buying FP1 if Rex was being planned for FP2.

Of course I could be wrong but right now...I don’t have high hopes for Rex’s inclusion.

Steve might just be a special case. Nintendo has wanted him to be in Smash for years, but 3DS limitations prevented him from being in 4, they didn't have time to program him for Ultimate's base game when the amount of unique newcomers was small already, and they talked about getting Banjo in the meantime so MS can remain on board, 90s Nintendo fans can get a character they liked, and they would be easier to program.

 

[jweb23]

Negotiations for Steve was just the usual business talks they have and is much different than finally deciding that the deal will go down and going through the process of planning and development which most likely happened when the DLC talks started to happen. These happened around the time Minecraft came to the Wii U so this was a while back. First party characters especially can be negotiated and planned at a much faster rate due to the lack of licensing loops to go through

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The fact they were still negotiating Steve after FP1 was already finalized means Nintendo must have already had a plan in place for more dlc past FP1. Since Nintendo is also picking the characters, then Sakurai must have already known the third party negotiations as well as the first party characters Nintendo was interested in making dlc.

So to me...it makes no sense to have Rex as a bonus mii costume with FP1 as Sakurai should have already known who Nintendo was requesting from their first party characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The fact they were still negotiating Steve after FP1 was already finalized means Nintendo must have already had a plan in place for more dlc past FP1. Since Nintendo is also picking the characters, then Sakurai must have already known the third party negotiations as well as the first party characters Nintendo was interested in making dlc.

So to me...it makes no sense to have Rex as a bonus mii costume with FP1 as Sakurai should have already known who Nintendo was requesting from their first party characters.

Nintendo was just practically begging for Steve for years, and I highly doubt any other third-party character they had a license for making a fighter was in his situation: Too unique for anything other than a DLC cycle that has a deadline of two years rather than one, without being held back by a weaker system.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The fact they were still negotiating Steve after FP1 was already finalized means Nintendo must have already had a plan in place for more dlc past FP1. Since Nintendo is also picking the characters, then Sakurai must have already known the third party negotiations as well as the first party characters Nintendo was interested in making dlc.

So to me...it makes no sense to have Rex as a bonus mii costume with FP1 as Sakurai should have already known who Nintendo was requesting from their first party characters.

It's more likely that talks for Steve have been ongoing for years for Smash in general, and not for any specific Pass. It's just that they finally became concrete when they were setting up Vol. 2.