Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[SharkLord]

It's more likely that talks for Steve have been ongoing for years for Smash in general, and not for any specific Pass. It's just that they finally became concrete when they were setting up Vol. 2.

Yeah, I don't think Steve was planned five years in advance. They were just tossed around and never came to fruition now for various reasons (Relationships hadn't solidified yet, lack of new series in SSBU's base game, Banjo taking priority, Sakurai's fears about not translating the moveset properly, etc).

 

[jweb23]

It's more likely that talks for Steve have been ongoing for years for Smash in general, and not for any specific Pass. It's just that they finally became concrete when they were setting up Vol. 2.

I’m NOT saying Steve was negotiate for a specific pass.

Simply the fact they were still negotiating after finalizing the FP1 characters, means Nintendo and Sakurai already knew they were doing more dlc from the beginning.

 

[amageish]

I’m NOT saying Steve was negotiate for a specific pass.

Simply the fact they were still negotiating after finalizing the FP1 characters, means Nintendo and Sakurai already knew they were doing more dlc from the beginning.

Honestly, I'm not sure we can conclude that either. This could have just been floated with it not going anywhere until it was decided they were doing a second fighter's pass - similar to how Sonic was floated during Melee's development and Pac-Man during Brawl's. We don't really know the context.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I’m NOT saying Steve was negotiate for a specific pass.

Simply the fact they were still negotiating after finalizing the FP1 characters, means Nintendo and Sakurai already knew they were doing more dlc from the beginning.

Perhaps they did, but while ARMS didn't have any music even if they mostly ported it over without remixing it anyway, I don't think they would've put in the Min Min spirit and put her somewhere in WoL if she was being planned back in 2018.

 

[jweb23]

Perhaps they did, but while ARMS didn't have any music even if they mostly ported it over without remixing it anyway, I don't think they would've put in the Min Min spirit and put her somewhere in WoL if she was being planned back in 2018.

The base game and it’s characters were decided late 2015 - early 2016. Plus spirits are just jpegs and there are playable characters who have multiple spirits. I’m also pretty sure 2018 was the team fixing bugs in the game and character balance, not decided what spirits are gonna be where.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I’m NOT saying Steve was negotiate for a specific pass.

Simply the fact they were still negotiating after finalizing the FP1 characters, means Nintendo and Sakurai already knew they were doing more dlc from the beginning.

We don't know that they were negotiating continuously throughout the past 5 years, nothing indicates that and in fact it seems improbable.

What probably happened is that negotiations simply cooled down after FP1 was set, until Nintendo decided they wanted to do another one.

 

[Billybae10K]

Friendly reminder that fellow Isaac fan Billybae10K is doing a new season of Rate Their Chances videos, with the first right here. Not rating Isaac himself yet, but that'll come soon enough I'm sure. Everything seems fairly argued, even if I think the actual chance scores are a bit too high overall given we only have four slots left, and I'm looking forward to seeing the series again as FP2 continues to progress.

Just noticed this comment, thanks for the shout-out, I'll get to Isaac when I can, but obviously I need to get the trademark situation straight in my head before diving into that can of worms. And, on the topic of high rating scores - It's partly for the entertainment factor. People don't want to watch episodes upon episodes of safe ratings that don't shake the game up, so eh, I'm more into throwing caution to the wind and actually giving larger ratings this time around, just to stir up discussion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The base game and it’s characters were decided late 2015 - early 2016. Plus spirits are just jpegs and there are playable characters who have multiple spirits. I’m also pretty sure 2018 was the team fixing bugs in the game and character balance, not decided what spirits are gonna be where.

I believe any representation that requires much less work than a fighter all serves the the same purpose: Consolation prizes for not being planned as a fighter at the moment. If Min Min was being planned at the same time as , there would be no need for us to be able to fight Corrin's imitation of her.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Just noticed this comment, thanks for the shout-out, I'll get to Isaac when I can, but obviously I need to get the trademark situation straight in my head before diving into that can of worms. And, on the topic of high rating scores - It's partly for the entertainment factor. People don't want to watch episodes upon episodes of safe ratings that don't shake the game up, so eh, I'm more into throwing caution to the wind and actually giving larger ratings this time around, just to stir up discussion.

Good call. Personally I think it's better to wait for Camelot's next move before rating him, but I trust you to do a good job regardless.

 

[Cadillac]

Just asking this here: with Isaac's moveset, fo you expect him to use some physical moves(ex. Punches, kicks) with magical energy in his moveset, or just magic and swords?

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Just asking this here: with Isaac's moveset, fo you expect him to use some physical moves(ex. Punches, kicks) with magical energy in his moveset, or just magic and swords?

At most I'll expect physical moves for Pummel, NAir and/or Jab; as those moves want the speed that weapons and psynergy won't provide.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Just asking this here: with Isaac's moveset, fo you expect him to use some physical moves(ex. Punches, kicks) with magical energy in his moveset, or just magic and swords?

I think magic and swords mostly, the psynergy needs to be the star of the show in his moveset. Maybe a kick in a move or two but nothing beyond that I reckon.


Also I want to bring up we'll have one more Golden Sunday for the year. I'm going to put up the tweet soon attached to a brand new mega-thread I want to cook up which will go over the general gist of the movement. I'll also be attaching my revised moveset which I've teased at for over a year at this point so I hope you guys enjoy it

 

[Nazyrus]

90% psynergy. I don't see the sword being used for more than just jabs. After all he only uses it for normal attacks and powered up attack with Flint.
That's just me anyway. He has so much psynergy potential moveset that he would stand out immediately in front of any other "sword user".

 

[Kalaam]

Isaac would use his sword about as often as Steve uses his.

 

[SharkLord]

Just asking this here: with Isaac's moveset, fo you expect him to use some physical moves(ex. Punches, kicks) with magical energy in his moveset, or just magic and swords?

I'd imagine he'd have some sword moves for his jab, tilts, and some aerials, but his best attacks would be Psynergy. The ground attacks would have more control, allowing him to evenly divide them into weak, fast tilts with the sword and slower, stronger attacks with the Psynergy, while the aerials are just "oh god OH **** GET ME BACK ON THE GROUND AAAAH," since a young Venus Adept sounds decidedly out of his element in the air.

 

[Dendros]

Just asking this here: with Isaac's moveset, fo you expect him to use some physical moves(ex. Punches, kicks) with magical energy in his moveset, or just magic and swords?

Take a look HERE for what I believe is the most Ideal Move set and smash implementation of Isaac.

He uses a sword for only 2 attacks. (3 if you count helm splitter Psynergy). All of the rest of his normal attacks use Venus Psynergy (Ground and plant based magic) and all of his specials use one of each of the Djinn/Summon. Isaac should not be using a sword for more than a few attacks and he should have it sheathed when it is not in use.

Please share this with any doubters and people who think he is just another anime sword boy.

 

[Guynamednelson]

while the aerials are just "oh god OH **** GET ME BACK ON THE GROUND AAAAH," since a young Venus Adept sounds decidedly out of his element in the air.

We've had one promoted assist trophy too many with intentionally bad aerials.

 

[Dendros]

We've had one promoted assist trophy too many with intentionally bad aerials.

I second this. They shouldn't do that with any more characters. Isaac needs to have usable airials.

 

[SharkLord]

We've had one promoted assist trophy too many with intentionally bad aerials.

Yeah, but at least Isaac would actually have aerials

 

[Kalaam]

Well, Isaac has quite a few abilities that would work in the air well. His sword of course, but he could cover the ground below him (so prevent juggling) with Quake or Bamboo Spears or Bramble. He could have a pretty offensive recovery or down air with a long lasting hitbox (ala Link).

 

[SharkLord]

Well, Isaac has quite a few abilities that would work in the air well. His sword of course, but he could cover the ground below him (so prevent juggling) with Quake or Bamboo Spears or Bramble. He could have a pretty offensive recovery or down air with a long lasting hitbox (ala Link).

Actually, my idea for his down air would be a variant of Punji that acts as a tether when it hits the ground, kinda like the Belmont's aerials. Since Isaac's a young warrior who draws his power from the earth, I imagined it would basically be a knee-jerk reaction of "GET ME ON THE GROUND" so he can get back in his element. That way, he can get out of the air and stop any juggles, which would likely be one of his worst nightmares.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Just asking this here: with Isaac's moveset, fo you expect him to use some physical moves(ex. Punches, kicks) with magical energy in his moveset, or just magic and swords?

Honestly there's enough material for Sakurai to pull from that Isaac doesn't even need his sword. It could be all magic

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Actually, my idea for his down air would be a variant of Punji that acts as a tether when it hits the ground, kinda like the Belmont's aerials. Since Isaac's a young warrior who draws his power from the earth, I imagined it would basically be a knee-jerk reaction of "GET ME ON THE GROUND" so he can get back in his element. That way, he can get out of the air and stop any juggles, which would likely be one of his worst nightmares.

I was thinking of Planet Diver, while I'm not a fan of diving kicks it does help him reach the ground from even longer distances.

 

[ZelDan]

While it doesn't actually happen in the GS games, it would be cool if Isaac had moves that combined his psynergy powers with his sword or kicks. Like if he had a down-air like the Link's where a stalactite covers Isaac's sword as he drops down, or maybe Isaac could have rock cover his feet as he does a downward-diagonal kick or stuff like that.

I'd be down with Sakurai getting creative and thinking outside the box this way for Isaac's moveset.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I always liked the idea of his Up special being spire instead of the usual retreat. Isaac would launch himself in the direction the stick is held (Straight up, Up left, or up right) and fires the spire in the opposite direction, the tip of which can spike.

 

[DrakeHavok]

Take a look HERE for what I believe is the most Ideal Move set and smash implementation of Isaac.

He uses a sword for only 2 attacks. (3 if you count helm splitter Psynergy). All of the rest of his normal attacks use Venus Psynergy (Ground and plant based magic) and all of his specials use one of each of the Djinn/Summon. Isaac should not be using a sword for more than a few attacks and he should have it sheathed when it is not in use.

I like that moveset. It incorporates both Djinn and Psynergy in a way that I honestly had trouble thinking of when I was making movesets for Isaac/Felix - I typically tended to focus on one or the other, and I was never able to satisfactorily incorporate the set-summon-standby mechanic. I'm still not completely satisfied by this one (mainly due to the loss of the recovery option while the Jupiter Djinn is in standby), but having the summon also raise Isaac/Felix into the air is something I never thought of. The only things I would change is some of the names of the Djinn being used, mainly Kindle and Squall (the former is a status-boosting Djinni and the description of the neutral special doesn't mention gaining any sort of attack buff, while the latter summons an electric strike rather than a whirlwind) to Fever and Waft (or Sirocco, which would be more fitting but is also from Dark Dawn thus Isaac never encountered it).

And yeah, I completely agree that he really shouldn't have more than a couple of basic sword attacks that don't incorporate Psynergy in any way (like Helm Splitter). Considering how much psynergy there is, even when just sticking to just Isaac's own element, he really doesn't need any more sword strikes than that anyways (though admittedly I would like to see a weapon unleash get snuck into his moveset somewhere - not as his Final Smash, that has to be Judgment, but a random chance of his basic combo's finisher suddenly becoming Titan Blade would be pretty cool).

 

[SharkLord]

Even if Isaac mainly uses Psynergy, I like the idea of him moving his sword around when casting the spells. Kinda like a focus point, or just to look cool.

 

[DrakeHavok]

Here's a question I'd be curious to hear y'all's opinion on: do you think Isaac's sword should be held with one hand, or two? In other words, do you think Isaac should wield a standard sword like Link, Hero, and most of the FE cast, or something more along the lines of what Ike and Ganondorf have?

Edit: Personally, I think he should use a two-handed sword, both to separate him from the majority of other sword users in the game, and because I'm fairly certain that both the Gaia Blade and Sol Blade were two-handed swords and it would make sense for Isaac to be wielding one of them.

 

[SharkLord]

Here's a question I'd be curious to hear y'all's opinion on: do you think Isaac's sword should be held with one hand, or two? In other words, do you think Isaac should wield a standard sword like Link, Hero, and most of the FE cast, or something more along the lines of what Ike and Ganondorf have?

Edit: Personally, I think he should use a two-handed sword, both to separate him from the majority of other sword users in the game, and because I'm fairly certain that both the Gaia Blade and Sol Blade were two-handed swords and it would make sense for Isaac to be wielding one of them.

I'd prefer one-handed, to go with the Psynergy movement thing I mentioned above. Sometimes he uses hand gestures for the Psynergy, other times he swings the sword around or stabs the ground with it to trigger the attack.

 

[ZelDan]

Here's a question I'd be curious to hear y'all's opinion on: do you think Isaac's sword should be held with one hand, or two? In other words, do you think Isaac should wield a standard sword like Link, Hero, and most of the FE cast, or something more along the lines of what Ike and Ganondorf have?

Edit: Personally, I think he should use a two-handed sword, both to separate him from the majority of other sword users in the game, and because I'm fairly certain that both the Gaia Blade and Sol Blade were two-handed swords and it would make sense for Isaac to be wielding one of them.

I'd prefer one-handed, but wouldn't be against 2 handed as it would be accurate to the games.

 

[NessAtc.]

Just noticed this comment, thanks for the shout-out, I'll get to Isaac when I can, but obviously I need to get the trademark situation straight in my head before diving into that can of worms. And, on the topic of high rating scores - It's partly for the entertainment factor. People don't want to watch episodes upon episodes of safe ratings that don't shake the game up, so eh, I'm more into throwing caution to the wind and actually giving larger ratings this time around, just to stir up discussion.

shoutouts to nazyrus, did it all by himself, no help whatsoever

 

[GoodGrief741]

Here's a question I'd be curious to hear y'all's opinion on: do you think Isaac's sword should be held with one hand, or two? In other words, do you think Isaac should wield a standard sword like Link, Hero, and most of the FE cast, or something more along the lines of what Ike and Ganondorf have?

Edit: Personally, I think he should use a two-handed sword, both to separate him from the majority of other sword users in the game, and because I'm fairly certain that both the Gaia Blade and Sol Blade were two-handed swords and it would make sense for Isaac to be wielding one of them.

I'd prefer he wield his sword two-handed, it'll make him stand out more and feel more powerful - which is how an earthbender should feel.

My ideal moveset for him would feature no sword moves, though, just so he really stands out. But if they have to give them some I prefer they be two-handed.

 

[FlawedAI]

Well, his neutral stance should be his in-game battle pose, which is two-handed, but he generally uses a one-handed sword. I feel like it would fit better, the sword attacks don't need to be weighty like Ike's when the earth attacks would do that just fine.

 

[SharkLord]

Something of note is that Roy normally uses his sword one-handed, but uses two-handed swings for a couple moves. I think Isaac should go one handed normally so his other hand is free to make the Psynergy gestures, but uses two hands for some of his attacks. Since he'd be on the younger side like how I've been saying, it'd make sense for him to switch from one grip to another due to not fully knowing how it's supposed to go.

 

[Nazyrus]

shoutouts to nazyrus, did it all by himself, no help whatsoever

lol I definitely did get help, among corrections and the use of a previous doc as a base to make the new one haha, thats why the end of the pdf there's a thanks message to the server

 

[SonicLink125]

Reuploading my Mii Isaac because the original upload is gone. Hope you all take care of him!
#SmashBros #GoldenSun pic.twitter.com/wDISNAJpVZ

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) October 7, 2020

Continue his legacy (if you’d like lol)!

When it comes to Isaac’s sword, I would hope he has it sheathed for like 90% of the time and only take it out for like some air jabs/swings or a FSmash akin to his basic attack from the games. He’s an earthbender/geomancer and can take care of his enemies with that alone easily. Regardless, I do trust Sakurai to rep him right when he gets in. Steve proves how much effort and care he can put into the characters he adds.

 

[Billybae10K]

Just to let you guys know - I've scripted & recorded the audio for my video on the Golden Sun trademark situation.

I'm planning on uploading it once it's ready - Which will probably be either today or tomorrow, so I'd appreciate if, once the video is up, we can work together to share the video around and help let people know the situation with Golden Sun. More people need to be aware of the trademark situation, at the very least, so they can understand where we're coming from.

So I'll appreciate any help you guys can offer on that front ^^

 

[Kalaam]

As if you had to ask.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Finally got my big megathread up and it has the general going ons of our campaign, a document helping to back up Golden Sun's return, my moveset which I've been teasing for a year and drum roll the next Golden Sunday which will celebrate Dark Dawn's anniversary. Of course RTs and spreading it in general would be much appreciated. These are excerpts from the thread but I'd appreciate if you read the whole thing

Welcome to Isaac's Allied Adepts! This account is dedicated to campaigning for the return of Golden Sun through a revival on Nintendo Switch as well as pushing for Isaac to be playable in Super Smash Bros. In this mega-thread we will go over what you need to know about our cause pic.twitter.com/KRu2aUN1Rz

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) October 8, 2020

His potential move-set created by me (IVA). Isaac has such a wide array of things he can bring to the table for Smash Bros like his earth-based move set, utilisation of elemental creatures called djinn and various forms of psynergy https://t.co/UK3QcJjUZt pic.twitter.com/y5Fz8YXWnq

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) October 8, 2020

We have had some things go in our favour over the past few years. We will link this document by our good friend Mattaki explaining what you need to know.https://t.co/u6xX8KlbOd

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) October 8, 2020

Finally, to round this megathread we would like to announce we will have one more Golden Sunday for the year celebrating Dark Dawn's 10th anniversary on the 28th of October. Participate with the usual hashtag #goldensunday with artwork and general love of the games pic.twitter.com/RRhhqpem7D

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) October 8, 2020

 

[FlawedAI]

Brilliant write-up, IVA! I really liked the little touches in Isaac's moveset, like the sand roll and the Cloak Ball dodge. The Djinn system is really clever as well. I made sure to retweet the most important parts, hopefully this spreads like we want it to!