Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

A few years ago this would've made me mad but now I'm pretty okay with it. The render and the banner artwork look pretty underwhelming but the characters themselves look pretty unique and the stage is great.

I'm not really convinced they would add a character just for a Golden Sun remake though, unless they were planning for it to be sort of like a reboot of the Golden Sun series at the same time.

Don't forget on top of the potential remake helping Isaac it's his legacy as an enduring highly requested character for over a decade that also would give him an extra edge for being a favourable pick

 

[Bassoonist]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for everyone who really wanted Steve in, but my excitement for dlc is almost completely gone. This is the third straight dlc character I really don’t care about...

For me, the only DLC characters I like are Joker and Banjo & Kazooie (and Joker really isn't an odd choice, I just like him because I played Persona 5 a couple of years ago). Hero was an okay choice. The rest of them I can entirely do without. Yes, even the ARMS character. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see a first party Nintendo character, BUT, again, there are much more deserving choices than a one-off title that's pretty much only relevant enough to get a character because that one-off title came out on the Switch.

I dearly wish Golden Sun had gotten that treatment, but here we are. Nearly twenty years after GS first released in Japan.

 

[Organization XIII]

Kind of glad I held off on buying the second pass. So far it's shown to not be worth it. Min Min is kind of neat since I like ARMS but one more dud and it becomes cheaper to just buy the ones I want.

 

[clearandsweet]

Nintendo chose Corrin and Byleth to promote games. If Golden Sun Remake is real, that's actually a good thing for Isaac in Smash.

My thoughts exactly. Still waiting on Camelot. Wasn't there some talk that Geoff wants to do something like Joker's reveal at the Game Awards again? With Camelot's delay, Naz's timeline info, the fact that E3 would have been Min Min and Steve 100% in a non-COVID world, I'm seeing it. Also consider this is literally the biggest reach you could possibly have in a character inclusion. There is quite literally no one bigger for a general audience like E3.

However, Joker was a much more niche gamer pick. One for the hardcore, like Isaac would be. The people who would be much more hyped for a GS4 announcement would be much more in line with the Game Award audience.

Just a reach.

Also: speculation time: did you notice his wording? "Do they think this just comes about by magic?" and "The wizardry required..." We know he's hinted before. I thought those were odd word choices.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Also: speculation time: did you notice his wording? "Do they think this just comes about by magic?" and "The wizardry required..." We know he's hinted before. I thought those were odd word choices.

Psynergy isn't really magic though. It would be like hinting at a new Earthbound fighter by talking about magic.

If he said something like "We had to move heaven and earth to get Steve to work" then maybe I'd begin to think there could be something there.

 

[TempestSurge]

A few years ago this would've made me mad but now I'm pretty okay with it. The render and the banner artwork look pretty underwhelming but the characters themselves look pretty unique and the stage is great.

Don't forget on top of the potential remake helping Isaac it's his legacy as an enduring highly requested character for over a decade that also would give him an extra edge for being a favourable pick

I think it would be a similar situation to Shulk. Xenoblade getting a rerelease on the 3DS because there was that safety net of his Smash inclusion brining in new fans who would be interested in trying his series.

Nintendo will now be bringing back an even more dormant series, 10 years since the last Golden Sun compared to Xenoblade's 5 year gap at the time. I will be very surprised if they just rely on hardcore fans coming out the woodwork when putting Isaac in Smash would just guarantee more people wanting to give the series a go.

 

[Xenigma]

I don't think we'll be seeing another Game Awards Smash reveal. Worth remembering Smash was a major sponsor for the 2018 event due to the game's imminent launch, so a reveal at that event made sense. Chances are that will not be the case now, just as it wasn't in 2019. Even if they do reveal something there, I don't think Golden Sun and/or Isaac would be the kind of reveal Nintendo would go for. That being said, clearly Nintendo has wildly changed their normal reveal practices in the wake of COVID, so who knows what might happen...

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think we'll be seeing another Game Awards Smash reveal. Worth remembering Smash was a major sponsor for the 2018 event due to the game's imminent launch, so a reveal at that event made sense. Chances are that will not be the case now, just as it wasn't in 2019. Even if they do reveal something there, I don't think Golden Sun and/or Isaac would be the kind of reveal Nintendo would go for. That being said, clearly Nintendo has wildly changed their normal reveal practices in the wake of COVID, so who knows what might happen...

Nintendo can still reveal a character in December without the Game Awards, as seen with Rosalina, Corrin, and Bayonetta.

 

[Nazyrus]

Nintendo can still reveal a character in December without the Game Awards, as seen with Rosalina, Corrin, and Bayonetta.

Pretty much. It's not a matter of if they can or not, just if they will or not. It's either December or January when, I think, we should be seeing fp8 reveal.

 

[Monue]

I have mixed feelings about this reveal.

On the one hand, we FINALLY got the reveal, and it's soooo nice to have that over and done with. I know the next one will be just as wild, but it'll presumably happen sooner, so the wait won't be excruciating.

On the other hand Steve was absolutely my least wanted character they could have possibly picked. This pass has 2 complete duds for me, personally, and that kinda sucks.

On the third hand... I get it, you know? Tons of people are excited, it'll absolutely bring in new fans, it is a massive franchise that, despite how much I oppose the term as it's lost all meaning, "deserves" to be in Smash. Eh, what you gonna do?

Frankly, even on the fourth hand... He kinda looks fun. I'm not gonna lie, Sakurai did that mofo justice and it shows, and goddamn he might look weird and not really be a "character" in the strictest sense, from a game that doesn't translate well to Smash but it seems that ******* made something that seemed impossible work, and you gotta appreciate that. I'll try Steve out, and likely have fun with him just goofing around with friends.

All that said: I want Isaac now plskthxbai.

 

[Kalaam]

Eh, if the animators and voice actors didn't have much to do, they had time to put extra work on another characters at least

 

[StrawHatX]

So in all honesty I have absolutely no interest in Minecraft and I think I maybe played it once when it first came out, but that whole trailer was pretty damn cool and I really like what I saw.

One thing I love about Smash Bros is how they integrate certain gaming worlds into it and the Minecraft one is so unique. I’m actually really excited to try out Steve and I’m happy for his fans.

Also I haven’t been following Smash speculation that much recently or just general news about it and I completely forgot that Steve is only the second character in this 6 character pass. It’s crazy that Min Min was the only other character we’ve known about so far.

I know Covid has really screwed up their plan but we have gone like 9 months since the second pass was revealed to only just now finding out about the second character in it lol.

 

[Xenigma]

Also I haven’t been following Smash speculation that much recently or just general news about it and I completely forgot that Steve is only the second character in this 6 character pass. It’s crazy that Min Min was the only other character we’ve known about so far.

I know Covid has really screwed up their plan but we have gone like 9 months since the second pass was revealed to only just now finding out about the second character in it lol.

That's the silver lining for me today: as much as I don't care for Steve, we've still got four more characters to go, so chances are everyone is going to get at least someone they like by the time FP2 is through. Today also doesn't change that new/remade Golden Sun is a very real possibility in the near future. Having to keep waiting is no fun (and we've got a lot of waiting for FP2 to complete), but I think there's plenty to look forward to.

 

[Dendros]

Ok what's all this talk of a Golden Sun remake?!

 

[Kalaam]

Ok what's all this talk of a Golden Sun remake?!

put on darth sidious outfit

Fan support is a a pathway to powers some would consider... unnatural.

In summary: 2018 new golden sun trademark, separate from all others, fitting the Switch games categories. Fast forward 1 year and half later it gets approved in japan, then during most of 2020 Nintendo battles in different regions (including those where golden sun was NOT released in the past) to get it approved, has to try several times in those (strongly suggesting they had to show stuff to win the case) and now it's fully approved AND active worldwide.
Also early this year, new Dark Dawn trademark, same situation (separate, fitting switch) currently in process if I recall. Could mean Nintendo is satisfied with the other Golden Sun game and is laying groundworks for a DD remaster/remaker, or that this new game IS the dark dawn remake.

 

[Dendros]

In summary: 2018 new golden sun trademark, separate from all others, fitting the Switch games categories. Fast forward 1 year and half later it gets approved in japan, then during most of 2020 Nintendo battles in different regions (including those where golden sun was NOT released in the past) to get it approved, has to try several times in those (strongly suggesting they had to show stuff to win the case) and now it's fully approved AND active worldwide.
Also early this year, new Dark Dawn trademark, same situation (separate, fitting switch) currently in process if I recall. Could mean Nintendo is satisfied with the other Golden Sun game and is laying groundworks for a DD remaster/remaker, or that this new game IS the dark dawn remake.

I will go to my nearest lighthouse and pray like I have never prayed before.

Even if the first TM is just for a remake of GS 1 and 2 combined that would be AMAZING! But what if the trade mark is just for putting GS games on the switch online service in the future with other GBA titles?

 

[Kalaam]

I will go to my nearest lighthouse and pray like I have never prayed before.

Even if the first TM is just for a remake of GS 1 and 2 combined that would be AMAZING! But what if the trade mark is just for putting GS games on the switch online service in the future with other GBA titles?

Wouldn't need it, they didn't do it for the WiiU virtual console and the categories include physical copies (cartridges and such). It's for a new product, not a re-re-release (which would AT MOST require an update of the original trademark)

 

[Dendros]

Wouldn't need it, they didn't do it for the WiiU virtual console and the categories include physical copies (cartridges and such). It's for a new product, not a re-re-release (which would AT MOST require an update of the original trademark)

Very True! LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm glad this thread isn't going "ugh, it's all gonna be huge third parties from here on isn't it?"

 

[SharkLord]

I'm glad this thread isn't going "ugh, it's all gonna be huge third parties from here on isn't it?"

Well, we got a mid-size first party and a huge third party back to back. I've seen one suggestion that they're be "Missed shots/Pre-E3 Speculative Scene" characters, but I can't confidently say that there's any patterns until CP8.

 

[a random user]

The character is going to be either Bayonetta levels of broken or completely useless. There's going to be no in-between with the way the moveset is structured. Can you imagine ledge guarding without even leaving the stage by just making the ledge 4 blocks higher? He doesn't fit in any capacity, in my opinion.

Also it's more likely that Vergeben caused this than him knowing about it. He was talking that **** for the base game, then when it didn't happen he pivoted saying it must be DLC. There's absolutely no way he had any idea about fighter pass 7 that long ago. All the discussion about it he caused could very well have been some of the justification Nintendo used when asking (Basically forcing) Sakurai to add Steve.

why make the ledge 4 blocks higher, when you can just build a roof over the guy trying to recover

 

[Sentinel07]

Kind of glad I held off on buying the second pass. So far it's shown to not be worth it. Min Min is kind of neat since I like ARMS but one more dud and it becomes cheaper to just buy the ones I want.

I honestly didn't bother with either pass. Just one dud and suddenly it's not worth the cost. So yeah, I just did separate purchases each time.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

why make the ledge 4 blocks higher, when you can just build a roof over the guy trying to recover

Because that doesn't account for the people who recover at our above ledge height like ike and wolf

 

[a random user]

Because that doesn't account for the people who recover at our above ledge height like ike and wolf

how can ike recover if he hits his head on the bottom of the block you just placed?

 

[Guynamednelson]

why make the ledge 4 blocks higher, when you can just build a roof over the guy trying to recover

I would hope that's not the case, and part of them programming each stage for Steve includes making zones where he can't build.

 

[a random user]

now that i think of it, steve could also use his blocks in doubles to help his teamate recover, as long as you can ledge grab them that is

 

[Xenigma]

I have to assume we'll learn about the limits of the block placement mechanic in Saturday's stream. I'd like to give Sakurai and crew the benefit of the doubt that mechanics like edge-guarding, for instance, have been duly considered.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I have to assume we'll learn about the limits of the block placement mechanic in Saturday's stream. I'd like to give Sakurai and crew the benefit of the doubt that mechanics like edge-guarding, for instance, have been duly considered.

There's a bunch of memes of Steve edgeguarding the rest of the cast already, I don't know what I'll feel if they all end up being impossible. Maybe relief because it won't make that his main plan on a competitive enviroment?

 

[Kalaam]

Guys stop liking my posts, I saw like 15 notifications this morning I was wondering what the frick was going on Q_Q

 

[Nazyrus]

Guys stop liking my posts, I saw like 15 notifications this morning I was wondering what the frick was going on Q_Q

Welcome to my world xD

 

[Nawgust]

I'm glad this thread isn't going "ugh, it's all gonna be huge third parties from here on isn't it?"

SAME. One thing that gets me about Smash speculation is when a new character is announced and a very vocal number of fans start going off about how "all the remaining characters will be added for the same reason". When it was Byleth, we were going to be getting all promotional characters. Min Min, it was going to be an all first party pass. Now, it's all best selling third parties.

 

[ZelDan]

Guys stop liking my posts, I saw like 15 notifications this morning I was wondering what the frick was going on Q_Q

Oh if you insist. I'll never like or appreciate anything you do ever again.

 

[Guynamednelson]

SAME. One thing that gets me about Smash speculation is when a new character is announced and a very vocal number of fans start going off about how "all the remaining characters will be added for the same reason". When it was Byleth, we were going to be getting all promotional characters. Min Min, it was going to be an all first party pass. Now, it's all best selling third parties.

Admittedly I had such a mentality. After I thought people were being fools for expecting a huuuuuuge third-party icon to join the roster, yet here we are. And I'm still going to think it's foolish to expect a ton of them when Smash 4 only had 2/7 of its DLC characters be big third-parties, and FP1 only had one.

 

[Kalaam]

Oh if you insist. I'll never like or appreciate anything you do ever again.

Like my dad. Thank you, you truly feel like family now

 

[Xenigma]

Admittedly I had such a mentality. After I thought people were being fools for expecting a huuuuuuge third-party icon to join the roster, yet here we are. And I'm still going to think it's foolish to expect a ton of them when Smash 4 only had 2/7 of its DLC characters be big third-parties, and FP1 only had one.

I mean, arguably none of the third-party FP1 characters are "huge", given Hero's popularity is largely from Japan, and the remaining three are from distinct niches of the gaming world. Even Simon/Richter from the base roster are much smaller names than the bombastic third parties of Brawl and SSB4. Minecraft seems by far the most famous addition since Ryu and Cloud during SSB4 DLC, so if anything I think this proves the super popular franchises (Halo, Kingdom Hearts, ???) are on the table. It doesn't establish a pattern, of course, but the potential is there for at least one or two more "major" characters.

 

[TempestSurge]

I'm going with the notion that both Min Min and Steve would have been double reveals at either E3 or a Smash centered direct if it wasn't for Covid interrupting plans. If they needed one huge third party to sell the second pass, I think Steve can carry it on his back. I could see one more third party, but I still expect more Nintendo characters.

 

[Organization XIII]

Perhaps due to Steve requiring so much attention and dev time the focus will be more on first parties but we'll see.

 

[Gioka]

I still can see one or two more 3rd party characters in this pass, I think Travis Touchdown has a solid chance to make it in as does a Koei Tecmo and a Capcom rep considering their close relation and support to Nintendo in these years (and that they didn't have characters on the first pass), I am betting on Ryu Hayabusa and MonHun respectively, but could be something else like Ryza and Dante, who knows. As for the rest, I see at lest one fan demanded character (first or third party like Isaac or Geno) and another first party (maybe promotional)

 

[NessAtc.]

My thoughts exactly. Still waiting on Camelot. Wasn't there some talk that Geoff wants to do something like Joker's reveal at the Game Awards again? With Camelot's delay, Naz's timeline info, the fact that E3 would have been Min Min and Steve 100% in a non-COVID world, I'm seeing it. Also consider this is literally the biggest reach you could possibly have in a character inclusion. There is quite literally no one bigger for a general audience like E3.


Just a reach.

Also: speculation time: did you notice his wording? "Do they think this just comes about by magic?" and "The wizardry required..." We know he's hinted before. I thought those were odd word choices.

If Min Min was intended to be E3, they wouldn't have announced it was an ARMS character in March, since they would have been still on schedule.

Steve and CP8 should have been at E3

Dragon Quest is ****ing GIGANTIC in Japan. That alone made it 100% worth it being the "casual" pick. It not being that big everywhere else doesn't make it not a goliath of a franchise

 

[Dendros]

So serious questions for you all:

Would you be upset if they didn't include Isaac, but any other golden sun character as a DLC fighter (Either Felix or anyone else, maybe even a protagonist from a new game that the DLC would be promoting)? This is assuming they embodied the spirit of golden sun and fought using psynergy and djinn.

What if the character used almost no psynergy and djinn and just fought with a generic weapon of some kind?


I'm just trying to gage if people really want the character Isaac, or if people just want a fighter representing golden sun's mechanics in smash (Djinn and Psynergy based).