Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[WaddleMatt]

So er, let's talk about Isaac shall we?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm sorry Irene but you're wrong and we just going to have to agree to disagree on this because seriously your opinion doesn't constitute fact and I'm sick of arguing about this so if you can do better come up with your own route because so far my route works and you haven't shown anything better.

You haven't provided any actual reason why I'm wrong. You know they are treated as separate characters. You were told that multiple times but are literally plugging your ears here. Come on, dude. Don't ignore evidence or the fact there's a severe flaw in your reasoning. You can't just ignore the fact they're separate characters. Or the fact that other Avatars don't follow the lazy route because they're actual characters from actual games. It's no different with any single Mii Fighter. They have a debut of Smash 4. That's already a defined game and they have something of note going for them.

I've already come up with my own route. You just hard ignored it.

Each one gets one based upon their class. Swords, Fists, and Guns. Their actual bosses are Ganon(Swords), Master Hand and Crazy Hand(Fists), and Duon(Guns). And this is the slightly lazy version I came up with within 10 seconds of thought. Let's see, we have the entire Fire Emblem cast, Link, Shulk, Young Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf alone for Swords(and Meta Knight too). For fist users, we have Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario/Wario, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Sonic, Villager/Isabelle, Captain Falcon, Little Mac. For gun users, we have Snake, Samus/Dark Samus, Fox/Falco/Wolf, King K. Rool, MegaMan, Bayonetta, Bowser Jr.

There's a few leftovers for fists, like Ryu/Ken, Pac-Man, Diddy Kong/Donkey Kong, but we have categories already done. So there you go, 3 unique Classic Modes quickly put together(I'm quite ill right now, so I'll have to focus on the stages later. Though the Boxing Ring works good for all the Mii Brawler's Classic, at least. Well, bar Master Hand and Crazy Hand, unless they can work on Omega Mode Boxing Ring?).

 

[Organization XIII]

And all those other "avatars" have hard routes based upon their actual games. The Mii Fighters don't have an actual game besides Smash. So it needs to be based upon something related to their official appearances to make actual sense. And the Avatars frankly don't work because they don't actually focus on a specific Mii Fighter type, which makes it unfeasible for a properly themed Classic Mode, like the rest of the cast actually has.

Mii Fighters are not simply Miis anymore(they're literally announced in-game as Mii Swordfighter, Mii Brawler, and Mii Gunner). And yes, your route only makes the Avatar factor important. Come on, this isn't rocket science, man. You aren't trying to give them a proper route. Each one has to have its own route because they're separate characters. Nobody shares a route. That's literally like having all 3 Links with the exact same route because they're a type of Link. Which doesn't happen because they're not the same character. Just like each Mii Fighter is not the same character. But if we got your idea, that means all Avatars should have the exact same route then. No reason why not, right? I mean, they're all Avatars, right? /s

And yes, that is a proper route for Lucario. It's a theme strictly based upon the Pokemon alone. Nobody else has this strict theme. It's still specific. The thing about all those Counter moves is they deal tons of damage. This makes it ideal for Lucario's Aura to rise as you get hit. It's set up that way to make it a very fun and unique Classic that only works right with Lucario, and nobody else. Like all the rest of the characters. Mii Brawler, Mii Gunner, and Mii Swordsman don't have routes because they couldn't think of faithful ideas to properly represent each one. It's blatantly clear that "lolavatar" is not enough and it's honestly too lazy of an idea to work(you might as well make every single Avatar character that then. Because they don't have anything that makes them any less defined than Mii Fighters, who are actually defined this time around with very specific balances in mind). If they can't all have their own routes(like everybody else), it makes sense to not allow them till a proper idea comes along. Also, they aren't simply Avatars anymore. The actual Miis that started since the Wii have far more differences. You can change their weight and height, which always affected other games. They removed a lot of features making this an actual option. Now they're hard-set characters that only really allow you to customize their color, voice, attacks, and costumes. They no longer allow you to even balance them around weights or heights, which means they intentionally have them far more hard-defined to a specific body type. These body types affect Smash's balance. It has to be taken into account.

Forgive my earlier comment I had to wake up at 5 am for a trip and was a tad irritable. Please feel free to delete it. Anyways yes the characters for the matches do have routes based on their games but so? That doesn't mean anything for a Mii fighter route. Also you say that "lol Avatar" is lazy and that a character must have a route based on their game but see Roy and Richter not only don't have one based on their game but their routes are literally "lol swordfighter" and "lol echo" so if my idea is lazy then Sakurai is just as lazy. And as for balance the problems you bring up have nothing to do with a classic route is just general balance. It's not like the portal in the bonus game goes faster based on the character's speed or the gun shots are bigger based on weight. Balance doesn't matter.

You haven't provided any actual reason why I'm wrong.

Darn I was hoping to make my second part before you saw the first. Also I did in every post besides the one before this. You're the one who wasn't listening. I said it could work for all three of they wanted or just a single one. Besides you didn't offer a hard route just swordfighter should fight a sword fighter etc which to be fair you say "lol Avatar" is lazy but your idea is just as superficial

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Forgive my earlier comment I had to wake up at 5 am for a trip and was a tad irritable. Please feel free to delete it. Anyways yes the characters for the matches do have routes based on their games but so? That doesn't mean anything for a Mii fighter route. Also you say that "lol Avatar" is lazy and that a character must have a route based on their game but see Roy and Richter not only don't have one based on their game but their routes are literally "lol swordfighter" and "lol echo" so if my idea is lazy then Sakurai is just as lazy. And as for balance the problems you bring up have nothing to do with a classic route is just general balance. It's not like the portal in the bonus game goes faster based on the character's speed or the gun shots are bigger based on weight. Balance doesn't matter.

...Balance obviously matters. Come on, now. -_-

Sakurai isn't lazy at all. And while it's true not all are based strictly upon their own games, they still have their own strict themes to begin with. Nobody has a repeat. Also, Sakurai isn't the only guy working on the game. He let his crew do a ton of the work too. And for the record, they aren't treated as the same character or simply an Avatar at all. They all have extremely specific Smash renders in VS Mode, with blacked-out faces. They're focusing on them being 3 unique characters now, just with similar names. They have as much in common as Samus and Zero Suit Samus as this point. Except even less. They're just different characters with different abilities. Let's also go over the fact that Echoes don't share the same Classic either, the only other Stackable character. And it makes sense. They aren't the exact same character nor actually tied together anymore. The only thing that any of the 3 Mii Fighters have in common is you create them in the same mode and you can use the same hats and some of the same costumes(well, favorite color too). Otherwise, they're entirely different in every possible way in gameplay(and I'll remind you again that they're even said within the game as something other than "Mii". That's not even a proper term for them anymore. Xander Mobus strictly calls them Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, and Mii Brawler. That means that the game fully acknowledges them as separate characters. Only in Smash 4 were they actually tied together mostly. New game, new changes, new official mindset within the series).

 

[Q-Long]

When mii's first made their debut on the wii, I thought they were kinda lackluster honestly.

But now they have morphed into these cool characters.

Nintendo definitely helped by giving them unique games like Nintendo Land, Tomodachi Collection, StreetPass Mii Plaza, Miitopia, and by including them in Smash, instead of just leaving them to sports and party games without any sort of unique characters like Monika.

I think using the default miis for a route would have been interesting. The themes for each would be their Representative weapons.

I notice in the music player for smash, for the Mii stages you get access to several tracks from various Nintendo series like Wave Race and Golden Sun. Another possible theme is incorporate those games for each generic mii fighter (the ones that got Smash 4 merchandise).

 

[Organization XIII]

...Balance obviously matters. Come on, now. -_-

Sakurai isn't lazy at all. And while it's true not all are based strictly upon their own games, they still have their own strict themes to begin with. Nobody has a repeat. Also, Sakurai isn't the only guy working on the game. He let his crew do a ton of the work too. And for the record, they aren't treated as the same character or simply an Avatar at all. They all have extremely specific Smash renders in VS Mode, with blacked-out faces. They're focusing on them being 3 unique characters now, just with similar names. They have as much in common as Samus and Zero Suit Samus as this point. Except even less. They're just different characters with different abilities. Let's also go over the fact that Echoes don't share the same Classic either, the only other Stackable character. And it makes sense. They aren't the exact same character nor actually tied together anymore. The only thing that any of the 3 Mii Fighters have in common is you create them in the same mode and you can use the same hats and some of the same costumes(well, favorite color too). Otherwise, they're entirely different in every possible way in gameplay(and I'll remind you again that they're even said within the game as something other than "Mii". That's not even a proper term for them anymore. Xander Mobus strictly calls them Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, and Mii Brawler. That means that the game fully acknowledges them as separate characters. Only in Smash 4 were they actually tied together mostly. New game, new changes, new official mindset within the series).

I didn't say Sakurai is lazy I said if my idea is lazy Sakurai also had lazy ideas for routes. If strict themes are all that matters then Avatars advance is a strict theme. Also didn't say balance didn't matter I said it doesn't matter for who they are facing because the balding you keep bringing up is general balance and therefore isn't important to who they are facing against it's just balancing the fighters in general. It's not like Swordfighter can't fight Link due to balance or Gunner can't fight Ridley due to balance. And I'm going to bold this part so you actually read it this time they don't have to share this route is they all should a unique but if they wanted to just give them one it works because it fits all three.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I didn't say Sakurai is lazy I said if my idea is lazy Sakurai also had lazy ideas for routes. Also didn't say balance didn't matter I said it doesn't matter for who they are facing because the balding you keep bringing up is general balance and therefore isn't important to who they are facing against it's just balancing the fighters in general. It's not like Swordfighter can't fight Link due to balance or Gunner can't fight Ridley due to balance. And I'm going to bold this part so you actually read it they don't have to share this route is they all should a unique but if they wanted to just give them one it works because it fits all three.

Except it never has nor never will fit all 3. They aren't generic avatars any more than Link/etc. are. Why don't all 3 Links share the exact same one then? Because that's the same logic as what you're saying. Are you saying Link, Toon Link, and Young Link would be fine with the same route? If so, then fair enough. If not, it's inconsistent and makes zero sense.

They are clearly going to get different ones if they ever get one because it makes sense to actually care about the fact they are separate characters, like everyone else.

Sakurai had no lazy ideas for routes. Nor did his team. They all have some actual logic behind them. Lucario's wasn't remotely lazy, and it's ignoring why it works so well. I already explained it too. It's not just about Counters. It's the fact that Counters also deal massive damage, which raises Lucario's aura, making it far more powerful and the perfect way to challenge a player. None of the routes are shallow and all follow a reasonable theme. You aren't giving any single reason they're bad, just calling the developers lazy. There's no actual criticism here. Your point means nothing as long as you continue to give no single reason why the routes have issues.

Also, the problem with your balance comment is that it's not remotely true, especially with the Bonus Game. They took that into account and even gave specific unlocks based upon the character. They took general balance into account too. It always will matter. Not severely in every instance, but the game was rushed, so perfect balance is kind of hard... especially with over 70 characters.

 

[Organization XIII]

Except it never has nor never will fit all 3. They aren't generic avatars any more than Link/etc. are. Why don't all 3 Links share the exact same one then? Because that's the same logic as what you're saying. Are you saying Link, Toon Link, and Young Link would be fine with the same route? If so, then fair enough. If not, it's inconsistent and makes zero sense.

They are clearly going to get different ones if they ever get one because it makes sense to actually care about the fact they are separate characters, like everyone else.

Sakurai had no lazy ideas for routes. Nor did his team. They all have some actual logic behind them. Lucario's wasn't remotely lazy, and it's ignoring why it works so well. I already explained it too. It's not just about Counters. It's the fact that Counters also deal massive damage, which raises Lucario's aura, making it far more powerful and the perfect way to challenge a player. None of the routes are shallow and all follow a reasonable theme. You aren't giving any single reason they're bad, just calling the developers lazy. There's no actual criticism here. Your point means nothing as long as you continue to give no single reason why the routes have issues.

Also, the problem with your balance comment is that it's not remotely true, especially with the Bonus Game. They took that into account and even gave specific unlocks based upon the character. They took general balance into account too. It always will matter. Not severely in every instance, but the game was rushed, so perfect balance is kind of hard... especially with over 70 characters.

Ok so yes it does fit all three because they are all three Avatar characters. So Avatar advance would fit for the sword fighter Mii or the Gunner Mii or the Brawler Mii so they don't have to share the route in fact if much prefer they all have a different route but if they wanted to they could add the Mii fighters together with that classic route. Yes it would be inconsistent with the rest of the cast but the Mii fighters are the only fighters not on CSS by order of arrival in the series so it wouldn't be the first time they were treated differently in the same game.
I'm not saying the routes have issue. You say grouping the fights by being Avatar characters is lazy idea but Sakurai grouped fighters for Roy and Richter in the same way so if the Avatar battles are lazy then a bunch of swordfighter for a route is lazy or fighting just echoes is lazy according to your logic. I'm perfectly fine with the routes. And problem with the balance comment isn't my statement. You're claiming that they need to balance the route but there's no evidence they do. They aren't taking specific matchups into account. Lucario's the is counters as long as a character has a counter how he matches to to the character doesn't change. Balance is a general issue and weights and speed and all that so matter but for the game in general. It won't affect who can be on an individuals route, the theme decides that.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

So er, let's talk about Isaac shall we?

1. What would his Final Smash be?

2. What stage would he come with?

3. What music would he come with?

Huh.... I feel like we’ve been here before...

 

[osby]

1. What would his Final Smash be?

2. What stage would he come with?

3. What music would he come with?

Huh.... I feel like we’ve been here before...

People are speculating about Isaac since Brawl and Golden Sun is just three games with very little extra content.

There isn't much stuff that hasn't been talked about.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

People are speculating about Isaac since Brawl and Golden Sun is just three games with very little extra content.

There isn't much stuff that hasn't been talked about.

Thats why I don’t mind derailings as long as they don’t get too out of hand.

There’s not much to talk about regarding Isaac. Honestly at this point I’d have more fun talking about Other aspects of Golden Sun rather than Isaac. We’ve kind of beaten that horse to death and beyond with this ridiculous almost 900 page long thread...

 

[SonicLink125]

Organization XIII & Verde Coeden Scalesworth . As simple as this will be and probably not the best solution, why not combine your ideas together? I can see all 3 Miis having both a Fist/Sword/Gun theme route while also having an “Avatar” battle before fighting Master/Crazy Hand (technically before the Race to the Finish segment). I can see both ideas, but instead of arguing who’s right, why not work together on how it can work? Unless I’m blind and that’s what you both have been doing. Then again, I’m just a simple guy.

Off that topic, remember everyone. IF Nintendo makes another ballot, we put Isaac’s name in with no hesitation, no doubts, no prisoners...wait...

 

[Organization XIII]

Organization XIII & Verde Coeden Scalesworth . As simple as this will be and probably not the best solution, why not combine your ideas together? I can see all 3 Miis having both a Fist/Sword/Gun theme route while also having an “Avatar” battle before fighting Master/Crazy Hand (technically before the Race to the Finish segment). I can see both ideas, but instead of arguing who’s right, why not work together on how it can work? Unless I’m blind and that’s what you both have been doing. Then again, I’m just a simple guy.

Off that topic, remember everyone. IF Nintendo makes another ballot, we put Isaac’s name in with no hesitation, no doubts, no prisoners...wait...

The only problem with that is I don't think there's a Avatar for Gunner characters but yeah it would work. Though the argument wasn't really about what route they would have but rather why my theme does/doesn't work.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Morale to the case has been abysmal on my end after getting told some stuff I wasn’t keen to hear. Beyond that, I’ve just been trying to enjoy my Christmas break off college. Chances to play smash have been limited on account of personal obligations, lol. How have you guys been the last few days?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Morale to the case has been abysmal on my end after getting told some stuff I wasn’t keen to hear. Beyond that, I’ve just been trying to enjoy my Christmas break off college. Chances to play smash have been limited on account of personal obligations, lol. How have you guys been the last few days?

Not too bad. Also what’s goin on? Is it about that crap on Twitter about dead franchises? Or is it something else?

Either way screw em. They have no business judging us and our convictions.

 

[Iridium]

You all don't mind another supporter here, right?

Seeing support for Isaac all over the Internet for as long as I can remember is actually what introduced me to Golden Sun. My interest in him and his series his stayed, and I know he would have been very unique and a monumental victory for his fans. In fact, I ought to check out some of the game soon, when I can.

A bit unfortunate that he couldn't get past his AT role, but we can all appreciate him not being forgotten by Sakurai and Namco at least...

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

You all don't mind another supporter here, right?

Seeing support for Isaac all over the Internet for as long as I can remember is actually what introduced me to Golden Sun. My interest in him and his series his stayed, and I know he would have been very unique and a monumental victory for his fans. In fact, I ought to check out some of the game soon, when I can.

A bit unfortunate that he couldn't get past his AT role, but we can all appreciate him not being forgotten by Sakurai and Namco at least...

More support, the better. Yeah his AT stung, but at least GS is being represented in some way. And I’ll always appreciate that. But at this point I’m wishing for Golden Sun to return instead of hoping we get a GS character as DLC (be it Isaac, Felix, Mathew or the near impossibility of a GS4 protagonist). It’s unfortunate that the early 2000s era of Nintendo has been relagated to Assist Trophies and Mii costumes, but retro and relevant characters get in.

Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like the early 2000s (specifically the GBA era) was an incredible time for Nintendo. The GBA dominated the market yet it barely gets any response from Nintendo nowadays.

If you have a Wii U lying around I’d totally recommend getting Golden Sun and trying it out.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At least the AT was updated, so that's still nice. There's also a lot more content than Brawl or 4, so I'll give it that. I'd still love him playable, but I'm just happy the series got more content. ...I also still like the current roster, and the DLC, so eh. Him and Shadow are the two AT's I wanted to see updated the most. I also wanted to see King Hippo as a new AT in a similar role to Little Mac.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I decided to go through the roster and see how many characters cater to the early 2000s Nintendo. The only criteria is they have to have debuted during this time.

• Bayonetta (nope)
• Bowser (nope)
• Bowser Jr. (yup)
• Captain Falcon (nope)
• Chrom (nope)
• Cloud (nope)
• Corrin (nope)
• Daisy (nope)
• Dark Pit (nope)
• Dark Samus (yup)
• Diddy Kong (nope)
• Donkey Kong (nope)
• Dr. Mario (nope)
• Duck Hunt (nope)
• Falco (nope)
• Fox (nope)
• Ganondorf (nope)
• Greninja (nope)
• The Ice Climbers (nope)
• Ike (yup? Well... mid 2000s)
• Incineroar (nope)
• Inkling (nope)
• Isabelle (nope)
• Jigglypuff (nope)
• Ken (nope)
• King Dedede (nope)
• King K. Rool (nope)
• Kirby (nope)
• Link (nope)
• Little Mac (nope)
• Lucario (nope)
• Lucas (nope, late 2000s)
• Lucina (nope)
• Luigi (nope)
• Mario (nope)
• Marth (nope)
• Mega Man (nope)
• Meta Knight (nope)
• Mewtwo (nope)
• Mii Brawler
• Mii Gunner
• Mii Fighter
• Mr. Game & Watch (nope)
• Ness (nope)
• Captain Olimar (yup)
• Pac-Man (nope)
• Palutena (nope)
• Peach (nope)
• Pichu (nope)
• Pikachu (nope)
• Piranha Plant (nope)
• Pit (nope)
• Pokemon Trainer (nope)
• R.O.B. (nope)
• Robin (nope)
• Rosalina (nope)
• Roy (yup)
• Richter (nope)
• Ridley (nope)
• Ryu (nope)
• Samus (nope)
• Sheik (nope)
• Shulk (nope)
• Simon Belmont (nope)
• Solid Snake (nope)
• Sonic (nope)
• Toon Link (yup)
• Villager (nope)
• Wario (nope)
• Wii Fit Trainer (nope)
• Wolf (nope)
• Yoshi (nope)
• Young Link (nope)
• Zelda (nope)
• Zero Suit Samus (yup)

And to put salt on the wound, all but Olimar come from established Nintendo franchises. So Olimar is the only true early 2000s rep. Damn...

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I haven't been hear in awhile I hope yall had a good Christmas

 

[Zuppo]

Why do you all think that Isaac can’t be in as dlc in the so called “first wave”? Maybe I lost some interviews or speculations.

 

[TempestSurge]

More support, the better. Yeah his AT stung, but at least GS is being represented in some way. And I’ll always appreciate that. But at this point I’m wishing for Golden Sun to return instead of hoping we get a GS character as DLC (be it Isaac, Felix, Mathew or the near impossibility of a GS4 protagonist). It’s unfortunate that the early 2000s era of Nintendo has been relagated to Assist Trophies and Mii costumes, but retro and relevant characters get in.

Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like the early 2000s (specifically the GBA era) was an incredible time for Nintendo. The GBA dominated the market yet it barely gets any response from Nintendo nowadays.

If you have a Wii U lying around I’d totally recommend getting Golden Sun and trying it out.

Who knows, maybe we can kill two birds with one stone. Golden Sun Revival campaign in 2019 (frequent Golden Sundays, letter writing, whatever else we come up with etc). And if there is a season 2 fighter pass confirmation by the end of 2020, maybe Isaac will have a good shot of being an upgraded fighter after all the campaigning done in 2019 keeping Golden Sun relevant compared to the usual silence after a Smash release. Obviously there's a chance that nothing will happen regardless, but the pipe dream would be managing to bring Golden Sun back and get Isaac as DLC in Ultimate lol.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I decided to go through the roster and see how many characters cater to the early 2000s Nintendo. The only criteria is they have to have debuted during this time.

• Bayonetta (nope)
• Bowser (nope)
• Bowser Jr. (yup)
• Captain Falcon (nope)
• Chrom (nope)
• Cloud (nope)
• Corrin (nope)
• Daisy (nope)
• Dark Pit (nope)
• Dark Samus (yup)
• Diddy Kong (nope)
• Donkey Kong (nope)
• Dr. Mario (nope)
• Duck Hunt (nope)
• Falco (nope)
• Fox (nope)
• Ganondorf (nope)
• Greninja (nope)
• The Ice Climbers (nope)
• Ike (yup? Well... mid 2000s)
• Incineroar (nope)
• Inkling (nope)
• Isabelle (nope)
• Jigglypuff (nope)
• Ken (nope)
• King Dedede (nope)
• King K. Rool (nope)
• Kirby (nope)
• Link (nope)
• Little Mac (nope)
• Lucario (nope)
• Lucas (nope, late 2000s)
• Lucina (nope)
• Luigi (nope)
• Mario (nope)
• Marth (nope)
• Mega Man (nope)
• Meta Knight (nope)
• Mewtwo (nope)
• Mii Brawler
• Mii Gunner
• Mii Fighter
• Mr. Game & Watch (nope)
• Ness (nope)
• Captain Olimar (yup)
• Pac-Man (nope)
• Palutena (nope)
• Peach (nope)
• Pichu (nope)
• Pikachu (nope)
• Piranha Plant (nope)
• Pit (nope)
• Pokemon Trainer (nope)
• R.O.B. (nope)
• Robin (nope)
• Rosalina (nope)
• Roy (yup)
• Richter (nope)
• Ridley (nope)
• Ryu (nope)
• Samus (nope)
• Sheik (nope)
• Shulk (nope)
• Simon Belmont (nope)
• Solid Snake (nope)
• Sonic (nope)
• Toon Link (yup)
• Villager (nope)
• Wario (nope)
• Wii Fit Trainer (nope)
• Wolf (nope)
• Yoshi (nope)
• Young Link (nope)
• Zelda (nope)
• Zero Suit Samus (yup)

And to put salt on the wound, all but Olimar come from established Nintendo franchises. So Olimar is the only true early 2000s rep. Damn...

Shouldn't Pichu slightly be an early 2000s rep, because its international debut was 2000?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Why do you all think that Isaac can’t be in as dlc in the so called “first wave”? Maybe I lost some interviews or speculations.

Well, there’s multiple reasons, really. But rather than going on a tangent, I’ll just say this. If Isaac was wave 1, he wouldn’t be an Assist. Wave 1 (that’s assuming there will even be a wave 2) has already been chosen by Nintendo. And this has likely been the case long before Ultimates release.

As someone that’s fighting for Golden Sun’s future I can say with confidence that Isaac is not going to be among the 4 remaining DLC characters. And that’s why I’ve, for the most part, given up on Isaac or any over GS rep in Smash. It’s not going to happen, as much as I want it.

What I can say is, we did make a dent, however small. Even if you take into account the rumor that Isaac was going to be an AT regardless, we got a Mii Costume. And the sole reason for that, I feel, is a consolation prize.

G Guynamednelson well thats murky territory. Pichu’s initial debut was late 1999 in Japan. Just because other territories didn’t get G&S until 2000 doesn’t mean Pichu didn’t debut in 1999. Let me put it this way, Mother 3 hasn’t been localized. So if it would be localized in 2019 does that all of a sudden mean that Lucas wouldn’t have debuted in 2006 and mean he debuted in 2019? In my mind, no, Lucas still debuted in 2006 with Mother 3.

When I say debut I mean first ever release, specifically.

 

[jweb23]

Why do you all think that Isaac can’t be in as dlc in the so called “first wave”? Maybe I lost some interviews or speculations.

Until more information becomes known, it seems like the DLC picks were made during the development of the game or at the very least before the game officially went gold. This makes everyone assume current Spirits and Assist Trophy were not in the running for Wave 1 DLC. Of course we could be wrong and I hope we are but until a future DLC character goes against those thoughts...then it’s safe to not get our hopes up for Wave 1.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Who knows, maybe we can kill two birds with one stone. Golden Sun Revival campaign in 2019 (frequent Golden Sundays, letter writing, whatever else we come up with etc). And if there is a season 2 fighter pass confirmation by the end of 2020, maybe Isaac will have a good shot of being an upgraded fighter after all the campaigning done in 2019 keeping Golden Sun relevant compared to the usual silence after a Smash release. Obviously there's a chance that nothing will happen regardless, but the pipe dream would be managing to bring Golden Sun back and get Isaac as DLC in Ultimate lol.

I'm glad to see there's still a fight amongst this thread the golden spirit will never die

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I'm glad to see there's still a fight amongst this thread the golden spirit will never die

The only way it dies is if we give up. And I refuse to give up, not without giving I my all. Like I’ve said before, I can’t call myself a Golden Sun fan if I don’t try to bring it back.

Had a troll on Twitter call me a fanboy and I’m like. Yeah, and? I take pride in that.

 

[Silo777]

Why do you all think that Isaac can’t be in as dlc in the so called “first wave”? Maybe I lost some interviews or speculations.

I for one, think there’s still a chance, however small it may be, for Isaac to appear. I’ve talked about this in length before and I even created a google doc to support this theory alone, but I’ll briefly go over it again now. There’s a chance that some sort of development with the Golden Sun franchise happened while the game was still in development, be it a new Golden Sun game or something else entirely, and in that situation, I can see why Isaac would end up in DLC. What are they supposed to do in that situation? Remove the GS content they’ve already put in? No, I don’t think they would do that. If they did, they’d only remove what they have to, being any new music. It would certainly make sense of the Rathalos tweet and trademark renewal, but it is just a theory. I wouldn’t count it out, but don’t rely on it.

Also, as ridiculous as it might be, I really hope this thread reaches 1000 one day.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

The only way it dies is if we give up. And I refuse to give up, not without giving I my all. Like I’ve said before, I can’t call myself a Golden Sun fan if I don’t try to bring it back.

Had a troll on Twitter call me a fanboy and I’m like. Yeah, and? I take pride in that.

I mean that was a stupid insult like yeah you are a fan boy lol but I'm glad the fights still going strong even tho our members are scattered amongst various platforms we can still come together and fight the good fight for golden sun

 

[SPEN18]

Shouldn't Pichu slightly be an early 2000s rep, because its international debut was 2000?

Imo Pichu or no Pichu the conclusion is probably the same

 

[WaddleMatt]

So we have some new people around or old ones coming back. I guess I should share my document on the case for Isaac again since it has been a little while:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqUkqiuuXOcA035vpuoU8lnzlMJPKMPM5y9C3PZ4rq8/edit?usp=sharing

Like always, you can comment o nthe document but if you want to ask me a question please quote me here because it can also be good discussion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why do you all think that Isaac can’t be in as dlc in the so called “first wave”? Maybe I lost some interviews or speculations.

I think there are a few questions to ask:

• Does Sakurai think assists shouldn't be promoted with DLC?
• Have deals with third parties already been made?
• Sakurai said the DLC line-up was completed on November 6, a few days after the November 1 Direct. Is this enough time for any Direct reactions to influence DLC decisions, at least for the DLC that'd be released in November 2019-February 2020?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I mean that was a stupid insult like yeah you are a fan boy lol but I'm glad the fights still going strong even tho our members are scattered amongst various platforms we can still come together and fight the good fight for golden sun

I just hope people don’t get carried away and get all hot and bothered with the trolls. I find them amusing and when they cease to amuse me I block them, but it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. No matter what route we take there will be those that don’t see what we see and will call us stupid, selfish, delusional, etc.

There was another person saying that people only like dead franchises because their dead. That made my head hurt. As if to say we don’t actually care about it and we’re just a bunch of hipsters. There’s going to be a lot more of that if we continue to push. But we have to keep pushing, because if we don’t, we’ll never see another Golden Sun game.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I just hope people don’t get carried away and get all hot and bothered with the trolls. I find them amusing and when they cease to amuse me I block them, but it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. No matter what route we take there will be those that don’t see what we see and will call us stupid, selfish, delusional, etc.

There was another person saying that people only like dead franchises because their dead. That made my head hurt. As if to say we don’t actually care about it and we’re just a bunch of hipsters. There’s going to be a lot more of that if we continue to push. But we have to keep pushing, because if we don’t, we’ll never see another Golden Sun game.

to be honest for me i have to question whether i care about the series a lot but i'm a Rpg lover till the end i want this series to comeback hopefully with a switch or 3ds game rather then a phone game plus they can remaster the soundtrack which i wanna hear because if Xenoblade is anything to go by i want to hear modern golden sun music

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

to be honest for me i have to question whether i care about the series a lot but i'm a Rpg lover till the end i want this series to comeback hopefully with a switch or 3ds game rather then a phone game plus they can remaster the soundtrack which i wanna hear because if Xenoblade is anything to go by i want to hear modern golden sun music

It’s unrealistic to expect every GS fan to be a mega fan. There’s varying levels of being a fan and there’s nothing wrong with that. What matters is that, if you truly want to see the series return, you’ll let out a howl when the time comes.

Wanting something and not doing anything about it will yield absolutely no results. Words of wisdom.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

It’s unrealistic to expect every GS fan to be a mega fan. There’s varying levels of being a fan and there’s nothing wrong with that. What matters is that, if you truly want to see the series return, you’ll let out a howl when the time comes.

Wanting something and not doing anything about it will yield absolutely no results. Words of wisdom.

Golden sun helped me along the path to loving RPG/JRPGs without the series I wouldn't love them the way I do one so, of course, I want this poor series to come back they took my conclusion lol

 

[SonicLink125]

I just hope people don’t get carried away and get all hot and bothered with the trolls. I find them amusing and when they cease to amuse me I block them, but it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. No matter what route we take there will be those that don’t see what we see and will call us stupid, selfish, delusional, etc.

There was another person saying that people only like dead franchises because their dead. That made my head hurt. As if to say we don’t actually care about it and we’re just a bunch of hipsters. There’s going to be a lot more of that if we continue to push. But we have to keep pushing, because if we don’t, we’ll never see another Golden Sun game.

It reminds me of the phrase, “Does a healthy person need to see a doctor? No.” I apologize for the butchered quote but it’s meaning stands. No need to treat a healthy person when there is nothing to be treated. Games like Mario, Zelda, FE and others don’t need help because they’re already thriving. But games like Golden Sun, Advance Wars, etc. need our upmost attention right now. I never have to worry about Zelda, Sonic, KH, and other game franchises I like because they are still going. Golden Sun? It needs me and every GS fan (and even RPG fans) to come back. I’ve never been so passionate about any game before till recently and I want to see Golden Sun successful and thrive as one of Nintendo’s greatest franchises.

 

[Organization XIII]

So all the talk about classic routes made me imagine one for Isaac. I was thinking of calling it the "The Broken Seal" and try to have fights based on some important events from the first game. For the first battle, I was thinking 3 Shieks maybe with a staff or 3 villagers and one pockets a staff with Shulk assisting you to mimic the events at Vault, then a battle to mimic the Tret fight. I'd put it on the Dreamland stage with Ganondorf because his face has the same grumpy old man face as evil Tret or maybe Ivysaur since he's treeish. A fight with Inkling on the Pirate ship for a Kraken proxy. I'd also have a fight with a giant Squirtle to represent the water statue thing. A battle with Blue Ike and Red Lucina for both Proxians and end it with a boss battle with Ratholos.

 

[Rick4Smash]

I decided to go through the roster and see how many characters cater to the early 2000s Nintendo. The only criteria is they have to have debuted during this time.

• Bayonetta (nope)
• Bowser (nope)
• Bowser Jr. (yup)
• Captain Falcon (nope)
• Chrom (nope)
• Cloud (nope)
• Corrin (nope)
• Daisy (nope)
• Dark Pit (nope)
• Dark Samus (yup)
• Diddy Kong (nope)
• Donkey Kong (nope)
• Dr. Mario (nope)
• Duck Hunt (nope)
• Falco (nope)
• Fox (nope)
• Ganondorf (nope)
• Greninja (nope)
• The Ice Climbers (nope)
• Ike (yup? Well... mid 2000s)
• Incineroar (nope)
• Inkling (nope)
• Isabelle (nope)
• Jigglypuff (nope)
• Ken (nope)
• King Dedede (nope)
• King K. Rool (nope)
• Kirby (nope)
• Link (nope)
• Little Mac (nope)
• Lucario (nope)
• Lucas (nope, late 2000s)
• Lucina (nope)
• Luigi (nope)
• Mario (nope)
• Marth (nope)
• Mega Man (nope)
• Meta Knight (nope)
• Mewtwo (nope)
• Mii Brawler
• Mii Gunner
• Mii Fighter
• Mr. Game & Watch (nope)
• Ness (nope)
• Captain Olimar (yup)
• Pac-Man (nope)
• Palutena (nope)
• Peach (nope)
• Pichu (nope)
• Pikachu (nope)
• Piranha Plant (nope)
• Pit (nope)
• Pokemon Trainer (nope)
• R.O.B. (nope)
• Robin (nope)
• Rosalina (nope)
• Roy (yup)
• Richter (nope)
• Ridley (nope)
• Ryu (nope)
• Samus (nope)
• Sheik (nope)
• Shulk (nope)
• Simon Belmont (nope)
• Solid Snake (nope)
• Sonic (nope)
• Toon Link (yup)
• Villager (nope)
• Wario (nope)
• Wii Fit Trainer (nope)
• Wolf (nope)
• Yoshi (nope)
• Young Link (nope)
• Zelda (nope)
• Zero Suit Samus (yup)

And to put salt on the wound, all but Olimar come from established Nintendo franchises. So Olimar is the only true early 2000s rep. Damn...

To be fair, there really isn't many main Nintendo characters introduced in the 2000s as a whole. What where the 2000s hits?

-Luigi's Mansion (Introduction of E Gadd)
-Mario Sunshine (Baby Bowser? Dark Mario? Flood?)
-Metroid Prime (Dark Samus)
-Mario & Luigi (Introduction of Fawful)
-Paper Mario (Introduction of Paper Mario)
-Mario Tennis (Introduction of Waluigi)
-Pokemon Coliseum (Pokemon Gen 3)
-Twilight Princess (Introduction of Midna)
-Wind Waker (Introduction of Toon Link)
-Viewtiful Joe (Introduction of Viewtiful Joe)
-Star Fox Adventures (Introduction of Crystal)
-Super Mario Galaxy (Rosalina)

I don't think any of those characters have a chance.... except for maybe Midna, Waluigi, Toon Zelda and Paper Mario. And if you're just talking early 2000s that list is even smaller, Paper Mario, Toon Zelda, Waluigi?

And of course there's a bunch of RPG's that either had a cult following or went nowhere
-Golden Sun (Introduction of Isaac)
-Tales of Symphonia (Introduction of Llyod)
-Skies of Arcadia
-Evolution Worlds
-Baten Kaitos
-Megaman X Command Mission
-All the FF spinoffs

I think the only character that has a chance here is Isaac or Lloyd or a FF character.

Compare that to the IP's of the 2010s which are still ongoing and which they're not just using Nintendo IPs or 1st party IPs.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I just hope people don’t get carried away and get all hot and bothered with the trolls. I find them amusing and when they cease to amuse me I block them, but it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. No matter what route we take there will be those that don’t see what we see and will call us stupid, selfish, delusional, etc.

There was another person saying that people only like dead franchises because their dead. That made my head hurt. As if to say we don’t actually care about it and we’re just a bunch of hipsters. There’s going to be a lot more of that if we continue to push. But we have to keep pushing, because if we don’t, we’ll never see another Golden Sun game.

Honestly I was expecting some trolls to get worse after the AT reveal and I was right but really they are just bitter people on the internet who provide weak points against us. One person went as far as faking the Twitter bio for the Isaac Allied Adepts page to paint a false image of our attitudes towards how we do things. At this point is just gives me a good laugh and I do genuinely think if we keep it up and make the demand continually increase we're in for a Golden Sun renaissance fingers crossed