Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[SPEN18]

I wouldn't even want felix to be unique, he would just feel weird as a non echoe...

He could make sense as a semiclone, I guess, as unlikely as that is.

Who knows, maybe Felix's neck is secretly longer or shorter than Isaac's and he has to be made unique, just like Isabelle.

 

[JaidynReiman]

How is the website for Operation Sunrise coming along?

Hasn't progressed. I wanted to work on it over the weekend but I ended up working on something work work related because I failed to finish it Friday. I'm going to throw together a quick WordPress installation today on a subdomain. It'll probably just be:

goldensun.jaidynreiman.net.

I won't buy a domain until plans are finalized.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Hasn't progressed. I wanted to work on it over the weekend but I ended up working on something work work related because I failed to finish it Friday. I'm going to throw together a quick WordPress installation today on a subdomain. It'll probably just be:

goldensun.jaidynreiman.net.

I won't buy a domain until plans are finalized.

What's Operation Sunrise?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sorry I'm late here. Haven't been really active lately (still depressed, TBH).

I took that post rather differently.

First, I don't think it was Polar implying that GS isn't part of Nintendo's history. It was Polar's source giving their impression of what Sakurai and his team thought, if I understand.

More importantly, though, the way those statements are phrased make me think that the choice of making Isaac an AT and possibly even a costume was made BEFORE the Ballot results came in. Because it was "regardless of his popularity". Had his popularity been known or defined then, it feels as though that would have been phrased differently. "Because his popularity was not sufficient" or "in spite of his success on the Ballot". So, what if that wasn't about the Ballot at all? What if Sakurai saw the reactions to Isaac not returning as an AT, and decided immediately to include him as an AT? The costume may then have come about because of the Ballot, or because of that same small vocal fanbase.

Undoubtedly more importantly, though, is the idea that Nintendo was shocked by the reaction to his exclusion. Because that's another data point in Isaac's favor, and it's something else that would have slipped past the Ballot: People who did not vote for Isaac still wanted him in the game. Since K. Rool was confirmed, we've seen massive outpourings of support for Isaac from their fanbase. In the leadup we've had Shadow fans, Geno fans, Lloyd fans, etcetera. All coming out to support the Golden Boy, but none of whom voted for him. So the fan desire for him is even larger than his placement in the Ballot.

Why would they hold a ballot, then decide characters and ATs before even knowing the result, and then alter nothing after knowing the result? Why hold a ballot if you aren’t going to use it?

Then again seeing the final roster, I think you might be on to something.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Why would they hold a ballot, then decide characters and ATs before even knowing the result, and then alter nothing after knowing the result? Why hold a ballot if you aren’t going to use it?

Then again seeing the final roster, I think you might be on to something.

I don't agree with Skyblade's assessment. I'm sure they knew the ballot results when deciding the roster (it had been a few months since the ballot finished). Isaac was considered (I disagree with any notion that Isaac was "never" considered) but when they opted to bring back all veterans, they also focused on bringing back as much content in general, making it harder to introduce a lot of new franchises. Isaac ended up on the chopping block because of this, with them focusing more on bringing back stuff, which is also why the DLC characters all come with new stages and music. They're making up for the lack of new stages and fighters in base through the DLC.

Which is also why I still feel Isaac has a strong chance of DLC. "NPC" characters get promoted as DLC all the time in other games, and I see no reason why Sakurai wouldn't even consider the same. Its just a ridiculous idea.

What's Operation Sunrise?

The name of the campaign to bring back Golden Sun, but I don't know if that's the final name yet or not. We discussed a number of different ideas. The website is intended to just be a base where people can go to learn about us and for us to have a blog that can be regularly updated.

 

[StrawHatX]

I think Sakurai and his team used the Ballot to see who people wanted and then decided from that who they wanted.

I think the only (unique) character selected from it was King K. Rool. Chrom and Dark Samus were picked because they could easily just be made into Echo Fighters. One was a popular pick from Japanese fans, and the other was a Western pick.

Nintendo probably wanted K. Rool as well because they didn’t realize how popular he was and with the DKC games doing well they can use him.

 

[osby]

I think Sakurai and his team used the Ballot to see who people wanted and then decided from that who they wanted.

I think the only (unique) character selected from it was King K. Rool. Chrom and Dark Samus were picked because they could easily just be made into Echo Fighters. One was a popular pick from Japanese fans, and the other was a Western pick.

Nintendo probably wanted K. Rool as well because they didn’t realize how popular he was and with the DKC games doing well they can use him.

If "selected from ballot" means characters who got votes, than you can add Ridley, Simon, Isabelle and Inklings, too.

Also probably it's biggest effect was making developers notice how much people want veterans to return.

 

[StrawHatX]

If "selected from ballot" means characters who got votes, than you can add Ridley, Simon, Isabelle and Inklings, too.

Also probably it's biggest effect was making developers notice how much people want veterans to return.

But I mean characters that were solely picked from the Ballot because of fan demand.

Inklings are in because of the success of Splatoon. Ridley has been wanted forever, long before the Ballot and it looks like we’re possibly getting the MP Trilogy on the Switch along with MP4. So he makes sense. Isabelle goes along with AC on the Switch and Villager was already in the game, and Sakurai and his team are big Castlevania fans and Simon is practically the last big name from the NES era who wasn’t in.

 

[Organization XIII]

If "selected from ballot" means characters who got votes, than you can add Ridley, Simon, Isabelle and Inklings, too.

Also probably it's biggest effect was making developers notice how much people want veterans to return.

You mean you could add Ridley. Isabelle was an AT and that killed a lot of momentum for characters like Isabelle at the time of the ballot, Simon I sure did get some but he was nowhere near the top probably in the top 30 at max, and the plan for Ultimate was all vets back from the beginning so I very certain even without the ballot "Everyone is here" would still be the tagline, the Inklings could have gotten 0 votes and still would have have been in this game. At best the ballot was used to help justify what Sakurai was going to do regardless, at worst it wasn't used at all save for K Rool.

 

[StrawHatX]

You mean you could add Ridley. Isabelle was an AT and that killed a lot of momentum for characters like Isabelle at the time of the ballot, Simon I sure did get some but he was nowhere near the top probably in the top 30 at max, and the plan for Ultimate was all vets back from the beginning so I very certain even without the ballot "Everyone is here" would still be the tagline, the Inklings could have gotten 0 votes and still would have have been in this game.

Exactly. Inklings, Ridley, Isabelle, and Simon had good chances of getting in without the Ballot.

 

[osby]

But I mean characters that were solely picked from the Ballot because of fan demand.

Inklings are in because of the success of Splatoon. Ridley has been wanted forever, long before the Ballot and it looks like we’re possibly getting the MP Trilogy on the Switch along with MP4. So he makes sense. Isabelle goes along with AC on the Switch and Villager was already in the game, and Sakurai and his team are big Castlevania fans and Simon is practically the last big name from the NES era who wasn’t in.

So, ballot picks are characters that don't make sense?

 

[StrawHatX]

So, ballot picks are characters that don't make sense?

I never said that. I literally gave reasoning to why I believe all those characters made sense.

What I said was characters like K. Rool, Chrom, and Dark Samus most likely got in mainly because of fan demand. Whereas the others got in partially because of fan demand, but mostly because of a business/personal preference stand point.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Ridley only got in because of fan demand as well. The ballot definitely wasn't the cause, but Ridley would've never been playable without fan demand.

 

[Bladebreaker]

I remember voting under the impression that the ballot would influence SSB4 DLC, and tailored my vote based on that. I did not consider options like ATs or previously deconfirmed characters like Ridley at the time. I also didn't know the scope of possibility. If I knew any Final Fantasy character would make it into Smash Bros., I would have considerably rethought my choice.

In the end, the ballot apparently had absolutely nothing to do with Smash 4. I probably would have done something different if I had known the ballot wasn't a ballot, but a questionnaire. I'm curious how many people may have voted differently if they knew what we know now.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The basic Wordpress install is in place, but I haven't done anything with it yet.

https://goldensun.jrconway.net

The domain name holder for goldensunrise.com is asking $3799 for it. Needless to say, I can't afford that, so we need a different one. goldensunrise.net is also in use. I could do golden-sunrise.com and golden-sunrise.net, though. I already tested them and these are available.

 

[hustler713]

If "selected from ballot" means characters who got votes, than you can add Ridley, Simon, Isabelle and Inklings, too.

Also probably it's biggest effect was making developers notice how much people want veterans to return.

Still pretty sure Ridleys inclusion was not because of his ballot results, even though they were high enough.

Ridleys Shadow was always looming over Smash Speculation. I think Sakurai saw him more as a personal challenge rathee than Fan Service.

 

[Xenigma]

Apologies if this has been answered already, but is there any word on how to most efficiently unlock the Isaac costume? Like, do you get it as a reward for his Spirit battle, or is there any other guaranteed way to obtain it beyond randomly appearing in the shop? I'm reluctant to dive into the spoilers too much as I'd like to at least be surprised by what happens in WoL.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Still pretty sure Ridleys inclusion was not because of his ballot results, even though they were high enough.

Ridleys Shadow was always looming over Smash Speculation. I think Sakurai saw him more as a personal challenge rathee than Fan Service.

Ridley's definitely was not because of the ballot results, but if he placed well on the ballot despite being a boss, that probably pushed it further. Ridley was fanservice in general, though.

 

[SPEN18]

Ridley only got in because of fan demand as well. The ballot definitely wasn't the cause, but Ridley would've never been playable without fan demand.

I mean, I agree Ridley got in at least in part due to fan demand, but he had a lot of other things going for him that a lot of people overlooked. He's a really iconic character, a villain, a heavy flier, and from a series that many thought was criminally underrepresented. The only thing that ever held him back from Smash was Sakurai's ridiculous insistence on him being too big; once Sakurai could come up with a moveset for him, there was no way he wasn't getting in. Of course, you can argue that the fans played a role in pushing Sakurai to try a bit harder and come up with a way to make him work, which I'm sure they did, but we don't know exactly how big of a role that was. Sakurai could've just changed his mind on Ridely on a whim, or had some bright idea pop into his head while he was in the shower one day on how to make him work.

This is pure speculation, but given how much Ridley looks like his old school sprite in Ultimate, my guess is that Sakurai just decided he could go off the retro look (which was less huge compared to Samus) rather than use his more recent appearances (his boss design in Brawl and 4 seemed less retro-ish).

I know I wasn't around here before Ridley was revealed, but I did think he was quite likely before his reveal; if anything, I thought his ballot performance might hold him back a bit because he didn't place as high due to being a boss (although this was only a minor concern).

 

[Silo777]

The fact Isaac and Golden Sun went from pretty much absolutely nothing in Smash 4 to having a pretty respectable amount of content in Ultimate after nearly a decade since the last game speaks volumes. They didn’t just bring him back though, they also gave him some special treatment as well. Meanwhile, some fan favourites got even less than Smash 4. To say that isn’t because of the intense demand is ludicrous. In fact, as I said before, I’d argue Isaac might be the runner up next to K Rool. For them to do this tells me Isaac was on the verge of playable in base, but something, be it time or something entirely different, was holding him back and this is the best they could do right now. If it was lack of time, which seems decently likely, then DLC is looking pretty decent as well, especially if a new game is in the works.

 

[FlawedAI]

Apologies if this has been answered already, but is there any word on how to most efficiently unlock the Isaac costume? Like, do you get it as a reward for his Spirit battle, or is there any other guaranteed way to obtain it beyond randomly appearing in the shop? I'm reluctant to dive into the spoilers too much as I'd like to at least be surprised by what happens in WoL.

I believe the fastest way is through the shop, which is random. So it'll probably be luck-based as to when it shows up, sorry.

 

[KoopaSaki]

The fact Isaac and Golden Sun went from pretty much absolutely nothing in Smash 4 to having a pretty respectable amount of content in Ultimate after nearly a decade since the last game speaks volumes. They didn’t just bring him back though, they also gave him some special treatment as well. Meanwhile, some fan favourites got even less than Smash 4. To say that isn’t because of the intense demand is ludicrous. In fact, as I said before, I’d argue Isaac might be the runner up next to K Rool. For them to do this tells me Isaac was on the verge of playable in base, but something, be it time or something entirely different, was holding him back and this is the best they could do right now. If it was lack of time, which seems decently likely, then DLC is looking pretty decent as well, especially if a new game is in the works.

I really am hoping for his chances for DLC as well, as a golden sun reveal on nintendo switch at e3 next year combined with Isaac getting announced as a dlc character after would be truly amazing. Also my earth djinn is coming in tomorrow!

 

[tbuster766]

I believe the fastest way is through the shop, which is random. So it'll probably be luck-based as to when it shows up, sorry.

Oh no not another gacha system D:

 

[FlawedAI]

Oh no not another gacha system D:

It's not quite gacha, but it's certainly not helpful. I think it be unlocked when you first see Isaac as an Assist as well.

 

[Xenigma]

I believe the fastest way is through the shop, which is random. So it'll probably be luck-based as to when it shows up, sorry.

Unfortunate if true, albeit unsurprising. Plan is to start with WoL anyway, so with any luck the Isaac challenge will actually be helpful, otherwise guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed.

 

[FlawedAI]

Unfortunate if true, albeit unsurprising. Plan is to start with WoL anyway, so with any luck the Isaac challenge will actually be helpful, otherwise guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed.

Yeah, I'm preparing to grind the everloving **** out of Smash to get everyone before Saturday evening, when my friend is coming over. World of Light might be secondary for a while, but I bet I'll have it by Friday night.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Yeah, I'm preparing to grind the everloving **** out of Smash to get everyone before Saturday evening, when my friend is coming over. World of Light might be secondary for a while, but I bet I'll have it by Friday night.

I'll be hunting Mii Swordfighter and the Isaac Mii costume first thing. I'm going to main him,whether he's good or not.

 

[Q-Long]

I'll post my friend code here friday :0

Look forward to smashing with all of you ;0

 

[QcSlayer]

Plot twist: Grinch leak is real and was an early concept back in 2016 for base and wave 1.
Explain why Ken as the same pose.
Explain why Incineroar and Pirahna are missing.
Explain why a victory theme for a serie is missing and starting by O (Golden Sun).
Explain why Sonic got a & Knucles AT since Shadow was suppose to be playable.
Explain why GS as so much spirits.
Explain why Isaac as such beautiful and manly hands (they start working on the model before replacing him by Incineroar).
Explains why some green pixels remain between Isabel and Mac, they forgot to remoce them.
Isaac was put as an AT for base since people would be even more piss if he wasn't in base.

... ****... it kinda makes sense.

Isaac for dlc guys.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I'll do the same, Friday can't come soon enough

 

[Guynamednelson]

Explain why Sonic got a & Knucles AT since Shadow was suppose to be playable.

Assuming Shadow really was meant to be an echo, I can't imagine an echo being something that was cut for time constraints.

Also, him doing a Shoryuken is a very predictable choice for Ken's pose.

 

[SonicLink125]

So, they showed off Tiki AT for the Smash blog. Kind of weird that they still haven’t talked about Isaac yet. Most likely they will later, but it’s a bit odd.

Plot twist: Grinch leak is real and was an early concept back in 2016 for base and wave 1.
Explain why Ken as the same pose.
Explain why Incineroar and Pirahna are missing.
Explain why a victory theme for a serie is missing and starting by O (Golden Sun).
Explain why Sonic got a & Knucles AT since Shadow was suppose to be playable.
Explain why GS as so much spirits.
Explain why Isaac as such beautiful and manly hands (they start working on the model before replacing him by Incineroar).
Explains why some green pixels remain between Isabel and Mac, they forgot to remoce them.
Isaac was put as an AT for base since people would be even more piss if he wasn't in base.

... ****... it kinda makes sense.

Isaac for dlc guys.

Heh. Hehehe! I’ve had the same thought. That would be insane if it came out like that. Imagine the internet learning this?

 

[tbuster766]

You guys with your crazy crackpot theories......























And I love them all xD

 

[QcSlayer]

Would also explain why the background change, why big N was so piss about it and why the character placement was so great (BK scare of Snake).

Nintendo push Sakurai for an holyday releash, Sakurai had no choice but to focus on existing series since he would win staff if they weren't working on new stages/music implementation.

We will be fix if Geno or BK are DLC whit the same pose, let's just hope that Isaac wasn't cut from wave 1 since Nintendo chose the DLC.

Would also explain PapaGeno source.

Edit: Piranah is actually a great choice for free DLC since everyone as played a Mario game once, he's "appealing" to everyone.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Would also explain PapaGeno source.

PapaGeno's source was originally on the Verge side, and only changed his mind after seeing the Grinch leak. He only believed it because he has heard about those characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Assuming Shadow really was meant to be an echo, I can't imagine an echo being something that was cut for time constraints.

Well, ****, I forgot that Alph was meant to go from alt to echo. Then again, the SSBU echoes have more work put into them, whether it be particle effects, animations, or new moves for Ken and Chrom. (That's not Ike's Aether, he doesn't throw the sword up.)

 

[tbuster766]

Well, ****, I forgot that Alph was meant to go from alt to echo. Then again, the SSBU echoes have more work put into them, whether it be particle effects, animations, or new moves for Ken and Chrom. (That's not Ike's Aether, he doesn't throw the sword up.)

It was just so weird that Sakurai and his crew took so long to release both Shadow and Skull Kid when assists like the moon and Knuckles were shown months in advance.

 

[SPEN18]

It was just so weird that Sakurai and his crew took so long to release both Shadow and Skull Kid when assists like the moon and Knuckles were shown months in advance.

Things like this make me think that they don't put too much stock in the order of the Assist reveals. It seemed like they just divided them up into somewhat balanced groups so that each group had a few surprises and a few popular characters. This would suggest that they don't see Assists as "disconfirmations" like fans do.

But then again, it was extremely weird to just throw Ashley in at the end of a segment with only NEW Assists (IIRC) and not even announce her properly. Moreover, she was the only one shown in this manner (again, IIRC).

So maybe they know that we're carefully looking at Assist reveals to narrow down the list of potential PCs, or maybe they just try to spread out the notable ones (likely the latter). It's also possible that they do know about us AT hunting in the DIrects, but don't really care about it.

 

[SonicLink125]

Another teaser pic of my project coming. Hoping it will be ready for Thursday! So excited!!!

 

[ZelDan]

Plot twist: Grinch leak is real and was an early concept back in 2016 for base and wave 1.
Explain why Ken as the same pose.
Explain why Incineroar and Pirahna are missing.
Explain why a victory theme for a serie is missing and starting by O (Golden Sun).
Explain why Sonic got a & Knucles AT since Shadow was suppose to be playable.
Explain why GS as so much spirits.
Explain why Isaac as such beautiful and manly hands (they start working on the model before replacing him by Incineroar).
Explains why some green pixels remain between Isabel and Mac, they forgot to remoce them.
Isaac was put as an AT for base since people would be even more piss if he wasn't in base.

... ****... it kinda makes sense.

Isaac for dlc guys.

Would Nintendo let some outside business get a hold of early concept art to mess around with though?