Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TheSpaceKing12]

I mean Xenoblade 2 has wayyy better characters to choose from, and it just sucks that the de facto Xeno 2 character will always just be Rex because he's the protagonist, when Zeke and Lora exist

While that is fair to say, it's purely a matter of opinion. That's why I ended the comment bluntly with "It's a poll"

 

[StrawHatX]

I mean Xenoblade 2 has wayyy better characters to choose from, and it just sucks that the de facto Xeno 2 character will always just be Rex because he's the protagonist, when Zeke and Lora exist

I haven’t played Torna yet so I don’t have much of an opinion on Lora. She looks cool though.

I liked Zeke, but if Rex was a little too generic then Zeke was a little too goofy for my liking.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Do you know where I can read about this new data? Do we know for sure it was Golden Sun content that was cut or are we just assuming that?

There's nothing at all to suggest GS content was cut. I just think that its probably the case that a new IP character was cut.

Interestingly enough, it also adds to the theory that Isaac was indeed cut due to the earthquake delaying the Sept. Direct. I have always found it strange that we ended at 69 fighters (excluding echoes). Sure, PP makes it 70, but even that’s odd.

Wasn’t there some leaker that said there was a Nintendo owned character that uses a sword planned for DLC? Hmm?

Imagine, Isaac’s AT was just to sway us from expecting/predicting him as DLC. Ha!

I still don’t expect anything though, but I hope it turns out to be true though.

You can drop this idea all-together. The best case scenario for this is that they planned to show off DLC early but decided to scrap the reveal. If Isaac was finished enough to be shown off in September, he'd be in the base game as a playable fighter. There's no way they cut Isaac from the base roster due to the Earthquake. The theory that something was cut was just wrong. That's all there is to it. (MAYBE a game reveal was cut, and MAYBE it could've been Golden Sun, but it could've been a lot of things.)

The most I'm expecting from a Nintendo presence at The Game Awards would probably be Metroid Prime 4 and maybe just a model teaser for one DLC fighter. Probably wouldn't expect a Golden Sun announcement there, which could probably be a small teaser, then a later proper reveal in the first Nintendo Direct of 2019. Hard to believe this year's flown by so quickly... and Smash is here to close it out, but sadly no Isaac in the playable cast.

I'm still going to keep up the fight though. I'm also intrigued about those data-mine findings

Spoiler

Suggesting a victory theme that was cut for a franchise/series beginning with 'o.' I thought I heard another report it was Monster Hunter that had some loose data, but if it's anyway related to 'Ougon no Taiyou', maybe Isaac really was planned...

Spoiler

Monster Hunter does have some loose data, but third-parties are always at the end of the victory themes every time. And Simon is also at the end here. Monster Hunter would be after Simon. Whatever character got cut, it was first-party.

Well there you have it. I think every new franchise introduced this game has a unique preface, like Splatoon is "sp", and every third-party has its own as well. "O" could absolutely have been used for Golden Sun, but ont might be more in line with Splatoon.

Only two new franchises were introduced this game, but all third-parties except Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man are prefaced in that way. "o" would not refer specifically to Golden Sun's Japanese title. None of the titles that just start with a single letter match up. Its also positioned between Animal Crossing and Kid Icarus. Not that I think the order is that interesting. Mother is after Fire Emblem, for example.

Spoiler: spoilered due to length

a: Mario
b: DK
c: Zelda
d: Metroid
e: Yoshi
f: Kirby
g: Star Fox
h: Pokemon
i: F-Zero
j: Fire Emblem
k: Mother
l: Pikmin
m: Wario
n: Animal Crossing
o: MIA
p: Kid Icarus
q: Other (mostly seems to be retro music)
r: Other (also includes Xenoblade and Punch Out)
s: Mega Man
t: Smash 64 (I think)
u: Sonic
v: Pac-Man
w: Melee (I think)
x: Sm4sh (I think)
y: Menus (I think)
z: Victory Themes

The rest are incredibly obvious except Smash Ultimate.

ad: Castlevania (ad are the initials for the Japanese title)
by: Bayonetta
crs: Seems to be Ultimate things like WoL
ff: Final Fantasy (duh)
mg: Metal Gear
mh: Monster Hunter
sf: Street Fighter
sp: Splatoon

One consideration I had is that the list is just brought straight over from 3DS/Wii U, and because they designed the list with that game in mind, all post-launch third-party characters had to get special naming conventions. Which also would mean the "o" was cut last time, rather than this time.

EDIT: Just one additional note. Its possible that they weren't sure if Little Mac would be base roster last time initially, which is why he's in Other. And maybe they didn't realize X was in development at the time Shulk was added, which is why he's also in the Other section.

I actually feel like there’s a good chance Sylux will be revealed as the first DLC character at the VGA’s due to a few reasons.

Mainly there’s rumors we’re getting a remastered Metroid Prime Trilogy announcement along with a Metroid Prime 4 trailer. I could see after all that then cutting to a Sylux reveal. Apparently he doesn’t even have a spirit in the game and he has a big role in MP4.

There's no chance in hell Sylux is DLC. Not after Ridley and Dark Samus both are base. Sylux was only requested because both of them were out anyway. And his role in MP4 is completely unknown. He will play a role, but nothing is known otherwise. He could set up the plot but die in the first 5 minutes of the game for all we know.

Just wanna point out that NoJ could have never told NoA about Isaac popularity
and that GS as a lot of content, but no new music.

Its possible, but unlikely. Well, I can see the lower end of NoA not knowing. But like... Reggie and Bill would definitely know.

 

[Silo777]

I don’t think Isaac could’ve been cut if he was finished. Theoretically if they had to cut him from the September direct they’d probably just make him a singular reveal a week or two later similar to Robin. If he was cut, I think it would have to have been at a time where development on him was not very far in. If this means anything I think the more likely scenario is that Isaac is already in the cards for DLC and work was started on him around the time of the Rathalos Tweet and trademark.

 

[ZelDan]

Metroid already got enough with Ridley and Dark Samus lol. It'd be crazy if Metroid went from getting almost no new playable representation to getting 3 characters. As someone whose into the franchise I have zero interest in Sylux and barely remember anything about the character.

 

[Organization XIII]

It would be kind of funny is people went from "Too many FE's! Where's Ridley!" to "Too many Metroids!"

 

[ZelDan]

It would be kind of funny is people went from "Too many FE's! Where's Ridley!" to "Too many Metroids!"

"UGH Sakurai Metroid bias!"

 

[StrawHatX]

I don’t think Isaac could’ve been cut if he was finished. Theoretically if they had to cut him from the September direct they’d probably just make him a singular reveal a week or two later similar to Robin. If he was cut, I think it would have to have been at a time where development on him was not very far in. If this means anything I think the more likely scenario is that Isaac is already in the cards for DLC and work was started on him around the time of the Rathalos Tweet and trademark.

I still refuse to believe that Rathalos tweet was not Golden Sun related. That damn tweet had me convinced Isaac was going to be in the base roster.

 

[Ninjaed]

I mean Xenoblade 2 has wayyy better characters to choose from, and it just sucks that the de facto Xeno 2 character will always just be Rex because he's the protagonist, when Zeke and Lora exist

At least Shulk was a decent character in his own right. Rex is pretty lackluster by comparison... Especially his moveset, hookshot aside. I'd much rather have Zeke or Nia. Bonus points for Nia not being a swordfighter.

Spoiler

unless they go with her Blade form

Some attacks could also have whoever's the rep use another weapon, like the blitzball or the cannon to strike from afar, the hammer as a strong smash, and so on... *sigh* Shame that it'll never happen.

 

[Silo777]

I still refuse to believe that Rathalos tweet was not Golden Sun related. That damn tweet had me convinced Isaac was going to be in the base roster.

I think so as well, which, especially after taking that Monado tweet into account, makes me think we just might be right on the money that it’s signaling DLC like a bat symbol in the sky.

 

[SonicLink125]

I think so as well, which, especially after taking that Monado tweet into account, makes me think we just might be right on the money that it’s signaling DLC like a bat symbol in the sky.

I guess we’ll find out soon enough.

 

[Lonodel]

I'm not sure if anyone else has experience with this but I live in the west coast PST will I be able to download the game before midnight in my time zone since the game should come out at midnight in the earliest timezones first?

 

[childishgamgeno]

Hey yall, popping in from the Geno thread to ask cuz I've been curious.

I know you guys love Isaac, and I think Isaac is a perfect fit for Smash. (Personally, would've loved to see Isaac in his Dark Dawn appearance, or you could switch between old and young Isaac like Ike)

Anyway, how do you all feel about Matthew instead? What if you all got Matthew as a sort of consolation prize? Would that still be disappointing since it's not Isaac? If so, what separates Isaac from Matthew?

 

[Organization XIII]

Anyway, how do you all feel about Matthew instead? What if you all got Matthew as a sort of consolation prize? Would that still be disappointing since it's not Isaac? If so, what separates Isaac from Matthew?

Matthew is basically Isaac 2.0 but it would be a little disappointing if he was in first because DD wasn't as good as the first 2, not bad just not as good, and second I haven't been supporting Matthew since Brawl which would be a little unfortunate. Other than that though I don't really have a problem with Matthew I just know no GS character will happen before Isaac.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Hey yall, popping in from the Geno thread to ask cuz I've been curious.

I know you guys love Isaac, and I think Isaac is a perfect fit for Smash. (Personally, would've loved to see Isaac in his Dark Dawn appearance, or you could switch between old and young Isaac like Ike)

Anyway, how do you all feel about Matthew instead? What if you all got Matthew as a sort of consolation prize? Would that still be disappointing since it's not Isaac? If so, what separates Isaac from Matthew?

I personally don't mind Matthew. I just want some representation for Golden Sun so the series can get more attention as well as a potential 4th entry.

 

[osby]

Hey yall, popping in from the Geno thread to ask cuz I've been curious.

I know you guys love Isaac, and I think Isaac is a perfect fit for Smash. (Personally, would've loved to see Isaac in his Dark Dawn appearance, or you could switch between old and young Isaac like Ike)

Anyway, how do you all feel about Matthew instead? What if you all got Matthew as a sort of consolation prize? Would that still be disappointing since it's not Isaac? If so, what separates Isaac from Matthew?

I'd be okay, he has a better design.

 

[ZelDan]

I didn't like Dark Dawn anywhere near as much as the first two games, so Matthew or Adult Isaac wouldn't really be the same for me, unless they made Young Isaac an alternate skin for either.

If we HAD to get someone other than Isaac, I'd rather have Felix, though even he would be kind of an awkward inclusion, unless maybe we got a new Golden Sun game that focused on him or something (which could actually be cool).

 

[Skyblade12]

It doesn't really make sense to me that they'd still see Isaac as an unpopular niche character if the Smash Ballot explicitly told them otherwise. If there's only a "small group of Isaac fans", then why are they even having to discuss him? Also, it's probably the phrasing, but just the way PolarPanda implies Golden Sun and GBA isn't "a part of Nintendo history" really bugs me as someone who grew up around that era. Just a big frustrating mess, and even though I'm not a GS fan it's an irritating mindset.

Sorry I'm late here. Haven't been really active lately (still depressed, TBH).

I took that post rather differently.

First, I don't think it was Polar implying that GS isn't part of Nintendo's history. It was Polar's source giving their impression of what Sakurai and his team thought, if I understand.

More importantly, though, the way those statements are phrased make me think that the choice of making Isaac an AT and possibly even a costume was made BEFORE the Ballot results came in. Because it was "regardless of his popularity". Had his popularity been known or defined then, it feels as though that would have been phrased differently. "Because his popularity was not sufficient" or "in spite of his success on the Ballot". So, what if that wasn't about the Ballot at all? What if Sakurai saw the reactions to Isaac not returning as an AT, and decided immediately to include him as an AT? The costume may then have come about because of the Ballot, or because of that same small vocal fanbase.

Undoubtedly more importantly, though, is the idea that Nintendo was shocked by the reaction to his exclusion. Because that's another data point in Isaac's favor, and it's something else that would have slipped past the Ballot: People who did not vote for Isaac still wanted him in the game. Since K. Rool was confirmed, we've seen massive outpourings of support for Isaac from their fanbase. In the leadup we've had Shadow fans, Geno fans, Lloyd fans, etcetera. All coming out to support the Golden Boy, but none of whom voted for him. So the fan desire for him is even larger than his placement in the Ballot.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Because that's another data point in Isaac's favor, and it's something else that would have slipped past the Ballot: People who did not vote for Isaac still wanted him in the game.

I can't deny this, but I voted for Bayonetta instead of Isaac. If there is another ballot, I will definitely vote Isaac this time.

 

[Nauzgo]

I love how we're at the point now where anyone who wants a character different from you must be picking a bad character, and thus their opinion is irrelevant.

It's just a poll.

Thanks but could you tell me exactly where I said that Rex was bad or that any other opinion was irrelevant? Finding something annoying isn't equal to bashing. You're a bit exaggerating here.

I bet we as Isaac fans are a bit annoying to for some people but I guess that's normal. Lol

 

[hustler713]

Fun Facts -- Golden Sun and Pikmin:

Golden Sun release date: NA November 11th, 2001
Pikmin release date: NA December 2nd, 2001

Both games also came out in 2001 in Japan and 2002 in Europe.

Sales:

Golden Sun: 1.65 million WW
Pikmin: 1.60 million WW

Golden Sun the Lost Age: 1.12 million WW
Pikmin 2: 1.12 million WW

Both Golden Sun Dark Dawn and Pikmin 3 failed to cross the million mark with their third entry.

Source: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/nint...dware-sales-data-from-1983-to-present.963700/

Pikmin 1 and 2 also got re-released on Wii under the "New Play Control!" series. Golden Sun 1 and 2 also eventually got re-released on the Wii U virtual console.

I bring this up because, success wise, Golden Sun is basically on par with the Pikmin series. Pikmin also had a recent spin-off on 3DS that bombed hard. Pikmin also has a playable character/s with Olimar and Alph in Smash, several music remixes, and a stage. Golden Sun has none save a single remix, despite the parallels of Isaac and Mathew being similar, and the sales success being the same.

Nintendo also placed a strong bet on Pikmin 3 to get Wii U's momentum up and running in 2013. That didn't happen. Golden Sun Dark Dawn was released on a waning DS with the barren 3DS launch on the horizon. If it were delayed and retooled for 3DS, the sales tale may have been different, despite the game's design problems, as it would've been an early brand new RPG release on the new 3DS platform, heading off the release of Fire Emblem Awakening (a game that revived that series) and Bravely Default (also a successful game).

Pikmin would be in over any other First Party Franchise since its Myamotos Brainchild.

I still think IF GS gets a rep at all we'll get a new Protagonist or Matthew ober Isaac. Just can't see Sakurai making an AT a playable Fighter.

 

[Nauzgo]

Pikmin would be in over any other First Party Franchise since its Myamotos Brainchild.

I still think IF GS gets a rep at all we'll get a new Protagonist or Matthew ober Isaac. Just can't see Sakurai making an AT a playable Fighter.

I think Isaac's more likely especially given the fact that Nintendo chose the DLC and they won't care about who is an AT already. Also, it may be that a new GS features Isaac again as protagonist. Be it a seperate story between TLA and DD or a successor to DD since Isaac and Garet were nowhere to find at the end of DD.

 

[Sabertooth]

Do you guys specifically want Isaac, or would you be equally as thrilled with any Golden Sun character? I don't know much about the series but I'm curious.

 

[StrawHatX]

Do you guys specifically want Isaac, or would you be equally as thrilled with any Golden Sun character? I don't know much about the series but I'm curious.

Isaac’s the “face” of the series so that’s why he’s the one we back. If Felix or Matthew got in over him I don’t think very many of us would have a problem with it, we just want the series to get some recognition. I think most who back Isaac for Smash do so with the hope it leads to the revitalization of the series, similar to what Smash did for Fire Emblem in the West.

 

[Bladebreaker]

While a Golden Sun representative would be acceptable, I'd prefer Isaac. Isaac with a Felix echo (like Simon and Richter) would be the absolute best case scenario.

 

[Nauzgo]

Do you guys specifically want Isaac, or would you be equally as thrilled with any Golden Sun character? I don't know much about the series but I'm curious.

While Isaac is more iconic, I'd honestly prefer Matthew due to his design. His looks just appeal a bit more to me. But I'd be happy with any GS character.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

In my ideal world, I get Sveta, but she has a lot of hoops to jump through to get to playable (maybe if Golden Sun explodes in a few years and she has a prominent role in the series and we get more than one character in Smash).

The only reason I would want Matthew over Isaac is because of his clothes; I'm honestly not bothered who of the two makes it in.

 

[_Sheik]

Hey yall, popping in from the Geno thread to ask cuz I've been curious.

I know you guys love Isaac, and I think Isaac is a perfect fit for Smash. (Personally, would've loved to see Isaac in his Dark Dawn appearance, or you could switch between old and young Isaac like Ike)

Anyway, how do you all feel about Matthew instead? What if you all got Matthew as a sort of consolation prize? Would that still be disappointing since it's not Isaac? If so, what separates Isaac from Matthew?

I would absolutely HATE Matthew. I didn't think much of Isaac in GS1 other than "he has a really cool design" (which is also true for Matthew). However, as soon as Isaac stopped being a silent protagonist and started having an actual presence in the sequel, he grew immensely on me. It helps that there's an ominous build-up thoughout the game as your new party members are literally afraid to run into Isaac during their quest (long story short, both Isaac and Felix want to save the world but their way of doing do doesn't sit well with one another, so they would just fight if they ran into each other).

Matthew has no lines, no role in the story whatsoever, and unlike Isaac and Felix, neither Matthew nor his game are the reason why most of us hold GS in such high regards. It would be like if Sakurai put Peach as an AT and Daisy as DLC (not that I dislike Daisy or anything, but I couldn't think of a more accurate analogy here)

I would be cool with him as a skin or an Echo, but only as icing on the cake, not the main dish.

 

[Bladebreaker]

Imma rant, but if we do get a new Golden Sun game, I wish they drop the silent protagonist. It does not benefit the story at all. I'm not personally opposed to silent protagonists on principle. It made sense in early games with technical limitations. It makes sense in some games where you have an obvious player avatar character (i.e. Pokemon). It makes sense for characters that have been silent since the beginning (i.e. Mario and Link). It makes sense in games where there's a story reason, such as the character being mute or there not being any talking in the game at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, the whole "they cut Isaac because of the earthquake" theory is, to put it bluntly, completely ****ing ridiculous and stupid.

It takes a long-ass time to make a Smash fighter, they would've just revealed him later rather then cutting him completely and wasting so many resources.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

If Lloyd gets in I hope he's even more fun than his prepatch SSF2 version. After they changed his moveset I wasn't as interested on playing as him.

Do you guys specifically want Isaac, or would you be equally as thrilled with any Golden Sun character? I don't know much about the series but I'm curious.

Personally I'd like Isaac over the other GS characters.

 

[Undella2]

Putting Matthew in before Isaac would be like putting in Lucina before Marth.

I would be fine with it, but I'm sure either of those two scenarios wouldn't sit quite right with the overall Smash playerbase.

 

[Deleted member]

Putting Matthew in before Isaac would be like putting in Lucina before Marth.

I would be fine with it, but I'm sure either of those two scenarios wouldn't sit quite right with the overall Smash playerbase.

Tbh I didn't know who Matthew was before I came to this thread, meanwhile everyone who indulges in Smash speculation has probably heard of Isaac at some point

 

[SPEN18]

Hey yall, popping in from the Geno thread to ask cuz I've been curious.

I know you guys love Isaac, and I think Isaac is a perfect fit for Smash. (Personally, would've loved to see Isaac in his Dark Dawn appearance, or you could switch between old and young Isaac like Ike)

Anyway, how do you all feel about Matthew instead? What if you all got Matthew as a sort of consolation prize? Would that still be disappointing since it's not Isaac? If so, what separates Isaac from Matthew?

I'd honestly just be a bit confused if we got Matthew first. As others have said, the original duology is was better-received and more widely known, and more popular among GS fans. Isaac is the face of the series, not Matthew, being the OG protagonist (like Marth) and probably the most important character to the whole trilogy. There's a reason we have characters like Marth and Simon. Plus they have the ballot and know which GS character we would want, so getting Matthew would feel like another slap to the face so to speak for any fans of the ballot characters.

In terms of Matthew himself, I don't mind him, but I don't have as strong a connection to him as I do to Isaac. If we do get Matthew, it would be pretty stinky if we didn't at least get Isaac as an alt or Echo; they're similar enough that there would be no reason not to do that. Basically I'd be fine with Matthew as long as Isaac also came along for the ride in some form.

Also Isaac is my favorite GS character, but even if he wasn't my favorite I'd still say he should be the rep.

Imma rant, but if we do get a new Golden Sun game, I wish they drop the silent protagonist. It does not benefit the story at all. I'm not personally opposed to silent protagonists on principle. It made sense in early games with technical limitations. It makes sense in some games where you have an obvious player avatar character (i.e. Pokemon). It makes sense for characters that have been silent since the beginning (i.e. Mario and Link). It makes sense in games where there's a story reason, such as the character being mute or there not being any talking in the game at all.

I'd be okay with them doing the silent protagonist thing again, but I agree it would be better if they just dropped it and let the main character speak. The GS protagonists have always been more than just self-inserts; Isaac and Felix both have real motivations for doing what they're doing, so it would've been nice to hear a bit more from them.

--------

On an unrelated note, I think the whole "Golden Sun makes you age slower" deal was a great idea. It lets Camelot use a rotating cast like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade if they want to, while also keeping the face of the series around to tie everything together.

 

[ZelDan]

I'd honestly just be a bit confused if we got Matthew first. As others have said, the original duology is was better-received and more widely known, and more popular among GS fans. Isaac is the face of the series, not Matthew, being the OG protagonist (like Marth) and probably the most important character to the whole trilogy. There's a reason we have characters like Marth and Simon. Plus they have the ballot and know which GS character we would want, so getting Matthew would feel like another slap to the face so to speak for any fans of the ballot characters.

In terms of Matthew himself, I don't mind him, but I don't have as strong a connection to him as I do to Isaac. If we do get Matthew, it would be pretty stinky if we didn't at least get Isaac as an alt or Echo; they're similar enough that there would be no reason not to do that. Basically I'd be fine with Matthew as long as Isaac also came along for the ride in some form.

Also Isaac is my favorite GS character, but even if he wasn't my favorite I'd still say he should be the rep.



I'd be okay with them doing the silent protagonist thing again, but I agree it would be better if they just dropped it and let the main character speak. The GS protagonists have always been more than just self-inserts; Isaac and Felix both have real motivations for doing what they're doing, so it would've been nice to hear a bit more from them.

--------

On an unrelated note, I think the whole "Golden Sun makes you age slower" deal was a great idea. It lets Camelot use a rotating cast like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade if they want to, while also keeping the face of the series around to tie everything together.

The slower aging thing is an interesting idea, though part of me feels like the only reason they thought of it was so they'd have an excuse to keep Kraden around.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Putting Matthew in before Isaac would be like putting in Lucina before Marth.

I would be fine with it, but I'm sure either of those two scenarios wouldn't sit quite right with the overall Smash playerbase.

With how many people unironically think photos of Matthew are actually Isaac and vice versa.

 

[WaddleMatt]

How is the website for Operation Sunrise coming along?

 

[TempestSurge]

Wouldn't Felix getting in before Isaac be a better example of another character (albeit also a protagonist) getting in before the recognizable iconic one? He actually looks notably different from Isaac.

I'm pretty sure most Smash fans would think Matthew is Isaac anyways if he appeared as DLC. But wouldn't Nintendo just make Isaac if they were going to make Matthew DLC anyways? The two are practically clones in physical looks and you can slap on the design of the other as an easy alt. Unless Nintendo finds it a humorous attempt to get around Isaac being an assist trophy, while still being able to give the fans 'Isaac'. But Matthew may be as off the table as Isaac since he'll still be an entity that looks similar to said assist on the battlefield.

 

[SPEN18]

I'm pretty sure most Smash fans would think Matthew is Isaac anyways if he appeared as DLC. But wouldn't Nintendo just make Isaac if they were going to make Matthew DLC anyways? The two are practically clones in physical looks and you can slap on the design of the other as an easy alt. Unless Nintendo finds it a humorous attempt to get around Isaac being an assist trophy, while still being able to give the fans 'Isaac'. But Matthew may be as off the table as Isaac since he'll still be an entity that looks similar to said assist on the battlefield.

Yeah this is why if we get Matthew I think we'd at least get an Isaac alt. It would make a ton of people really happy for only a comparatively tiny amount of work. If they wanna use Matthew to promote a hypothetical GS4, okay fine, but just give us the mascot along with him given that it's so easy to please both crowds.

The slower aging thing is an interesting idea, though part of me feels like the only reason they thought of it was so they'd have an excuse to keep Kraden around.

I mean, imagine if they had released DD without the aging thing, Kraden was dead and Isaac literally became the next Kraden, appearance and all, just like Matthew became the "next Isaac."

 

[hustler713]

Wouldn't Felix getting in before Isaac be a better example of another character (albeit also a protagonist) getting in before the recognizable iconic one? He actually looks notably different from Isaac.

I'm pretty sure most Smash fans would think Matthew is Isaac anyways if he appeared as DLC. But wouldn't Nintendo just make Isaac if they were going to make Matthew DLC anyways? The two are practically clones in physical looks and you can slap on the design of the other as an easy alt. Unless Nintendo finds it a humorous attempt to get around Isaac being an assist trophy, while still being able to give the fans 'Isaac'. But Matthew may be as off the table as Isaac since he'll still be an entity that looks similar to said assist on the battlefield.

Felix actually is my favorite GS Char. I'd love him to be an echoe, but even I agree: getting him kn before Isaac just feels weird... Not only because he is just a secondary Protagonist nut necause Isaac just fits more this heroic protagonist stereotype. I wouldn't even want felix to be unique, he would just feel weird as a non echoe...