Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Silo777]

It really speaks volumes to how Golden Sun is the last really glaring first party omission when Isaac is the only one to represent a new Nintendo franchise in like the top 15 in both the exit poll and reddit poll.

 

[StormC]

It really speaks volumes to how Golden Sun is the last really glaring first party omission when Isaac is the only one to represent a new Nintendo franchise in like the top 15 in both the exit poll and reddit poll.

Rhythm Heaven would probably chart appreciably if it had a single character to rally behind. Even with Chorus Kids, people want Karate Joe, Wrestler, etc.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'm already practicing lads

 

[KoopaSaki]

Guys I crack the code.

Wave 1 will have Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kid and Banjo--Kazooie.

That's why Nintendo tried to shut down the Grinch leak, because it predicted accuratly a bunch of characters.

Sakurai said himself that the roster was finish really early on. + he kept a spot for a pokemon rep. So Isaac AT was made in 2016.

That's why the costume is looking better then the AT, they start working on Isaac before the Rathalos tweet and import is new model on the costume. Thus would explain why we got the trademark for RH and GS. RH and GS are the 2 most represented series in Smash whitout a character.

They had to give the characters designer some work to do when base game characters were done.

Why did we got Weyard and Felix theme but not Isaac theme in Ultimate? Because Isaac theme is getting remix exclusively for Isaac reveal.

Next why did Papa Geno source claim to have heard about a bunch of characters on the Grinch leak? Because a bunch of them were in wave 1.

Why was Isaac AT reveal so late? Because Sakurai thought that the fan would guess Isaac for DLC, or be really made if he was missing, so he hesitate a lot to show him.

If we get ether of these 4 reveal early on, it will look really good for the other characters.

Edit: Now we know that AT can be togle off on some stages, so if someone is playing Isaac, is AT will be off.

It really could be true, but why would sakurai make Isaac an assist trophy again if he was planned for dlc? That reveal on the 1st hurt so hard to a lot of us...

 

[SonicLink125]

I'm already practicing lads

Nice! Which reminds me, I need to prep for the Midnight Release Smash Tournament.

Once Ultimate releases, anybody going to set up their main top 8 in a picture like in the VS screen?
Mine will be in this order: , , +Isaac Mii costume (Placeholder till Isaac becomes a fighter ), , , , , and .

 

[Silo777]

Rhythm Heaven would probably chart appreciably if it had a single character to rally behind. Even with Chorus Kids, people want Karate Joe, Wrestler, etc.

I have always felt a little bad for that fandom because of that. They probably have good numbers overall, but it’s watered down by separation. That’s a perfect example of why we can’t separate our voices and need to stick with Isaac no matter what.

 

[SPEN18]

It really could be true, but why would sakurai make Isaac an assist trophy again if he was planned for dlc?

Well I think a lot of people were upset that he was missing in Smash 4, not even getting a regular trophy, and so if Isaac wasn't gonna be in base then Sakurai would want to put something in there to appease the fans, whether or not Isaac was in DLC.
Also, even though the DLC is already planned before release, it probably wasn't planned back when the project plan was first made. We don't know exactly when Assists are decided on, but it's entirely possible that Isaac's AT was already well into development or even finished by the time the DLC was decided. In this case they probably wouldn't remove the AT regardless of the DLC decisions.
Finally, remember that Sakurai prefers to make the game as complete as possible without thinking too much about DLC. Sure, the DLC was decided on during development (and it's also possible that Sakurai's changed his stance on this), but that wouldn't stop Sakurai from making the base game as complete as he can. DLC could be decided based on what's not in the base game, not based on what is in the base game; from this point of view, any ATs, Spirits, etc. would have little to no bearing on DLC decisions.

-------

Once Ultimate releases, anybody going to set up their main top 8 in a picture like in the VS screen?

Well before I do that I gotta decide on my top 8.
-- for sure
(Isaac+a bit of Takamaru for swordsman; Saki+Ray for gunner) -- in the running

-------

Also, Rhythm Heaven still probably wouldn't chart as high as GS even with its characters combined, but it's definitely in the running for a playable spot.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Guys I crack the code.

Wave 1 will have Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kid and Banjo--Kazooie.

That's why Nintendo tried to shut down the Grinch leak, because it predicted accuratly a bunch of characters.

Sakurai said himself that the roster was finish really early on. + he kept a spot for a pokemon rep. So Isaac AT was made in 2016.

That's why the costume is looking better then the AT, they start working on Isaac before the Rathalos tweet and import is new model on the costume. Thus would explain why we got the trademark for RH and GS. RH and GS are the 2 most represented series in Smash whitout a character.

They had to give the characters designer some work to do when base game characters were done.

Why did we got Weyard and Felix theme but not Isaac theme in Ultimate? Because Isaac theme is getting remix exclusively for Isaac reveal.

Next why did Papa Geno source claim to have heard about a bunch of characters on the Grinch leak? Because a bunch of them were in wave 1.

Why was Isaac AT reveal so late? Because Sakurai thought that the fan would guess Isaac for DLC, or be really made if he was missing, so he hesitate a lot to show him.

If we get ether of these 4 reveal early on, it will look really good for the other characters.

Edit: Now we know that AT can be togle off on some stages, so if someone is playing Isaac, is AT will be off.

Or PapaGenos had far too much faith in his source that supposedly had a source that worked at Microsoft.

“I have a friend that has a friend that works at Nintendo and he says ___.” That kind of thing gets laughed at, and yet, he fell for it.

Now with that being said (puts on tin foil hat) regarding Isaac. He might actually be DLC. Keep in mind I don’t even believe the horse manure I’m about to spew out, but bare with me.

Notice how Isaac’s Mii costume looks better than his AT. Specifically in the hair. It has more sheen to it. Whereas his ATs is kind of plastic like. Why? Doesn’t that seem strange?

What if Isaac’s AT is a placeholder. It doesn’t look as good as it could be because they didn’t want to spend a whole lot of time on something that may be replaced.

Replaced with what? Mathew.

What if we did something? What if Isaac was always planned to be an AT, but due to our outcry they shifted plans a little bit.

An AT has never been intorduced with a DLC fighter. And this likely would be the same for Ultimate, so instead of scrapping his AT altogether, they have a less detailed version of Isaac for the AT with the intention of replacing him with Mathew later down the line when he’s added.

Although I don’t believe it myself, it sure would be something.

 

[KMDP]

It really could be true, but why would sakurai make Isaac an assist trophy again if he was planned for dlc? That reveal on the 1st hurt so hard to a lot of us...

So that Isaac is actually in the game in some form.

If Isaac wasn't in the game, we'd either get super depressed, believing Isaac will never come back (which would be the wrong message to send), or start believing "Okay, Isaac's got to be DLC at this point" (which defeats the point of the DLC being a surprise).

Neither are good options, the best option is simply to have Isaac as an Assist Trophy.

Obviously, this makes many an assumption.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm curious. What exactly was the exit poll everyone has been talking about? Is it anything official that Nintendo did or is it just another random poll.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I'm curious. What exactly was the exit poll everyone has been talking about? Is it anything official that Nintendo did or is it just another random poll.

IIRC it’s a fan poll that asked what character people voted for during the ballot.

It’s nothing official, but houses a small sample of data that we can refer to.

 

[QcSlayer]

As much as I would LOVE this to be true, there are a few holes to that theory. One major hole would be Incineroar and his placement in the mural and Ken’s mural render. Also, you’re forgetting the 5th DLC character. If we’re to go by the Grinch Leal, which one would it go to, Shadow or Mach Rider?

Not trying to bring you down, just some things I’ve noticed. Still would love it to be true though.

Edit: words

I don't know who will be the fifth character, I did not say that the Grinch leak was real, just that it guessed correctly at least 4 characters. Thus why everyone freak out.

Guessing that Nintendo told channels like GameXplain to shut it down because it got half the characters correctly, don't you think that the Rathalos tweet could have hint at DLC after all?

Edit: And if we get more then 1 DLC wave (30 placeholder). Let's say we have at least 3 waves, would'nt it be weird that Nintendo never upfrade popular AT, why pay for third party rights when you can upgrade popular picks thar would sale as well whit your core audience?

 

[StrawHatX]

Or PapaGenos had far too much faith in his source that supposedly had a source that worked at Microsoft.

“I have a friend that has a friend that works at Nintendo and he says ___.” That kind of thing gets laughed at, and yet, he fell for it.

Now with that being said (puts on tin foil hat) regarding Isaac. He might actually be DLC. Keep in mind I don’t even believe the horse manure I’m about to spew out, but bare with me.

Notice how Isaac’s Mii costume looks better than his AT. Specifically in the hair. It has more sheen to it. Whereas his ATs is kind of plastic like. Why? Doesn’t that seem strange?

What if Isaac’s AT is a placeholder. It doesn’t look as good as it could be because they didn’t want to spend a whole lot of time on something that may be replaced.

Replaced with what? Mathew.

What if we did something? What if Isaac was always planned to be an AT, but due to our outcry they shifted plans a little bit.

An AT has never been intorduced with a DLC fighter. And this likely would be the same for Ultimate, so instead of scrapping his AT altogether, they have a less detailed version of Isaac for the AT with the intention of replacing him with Mathew later down the line when he’s added.

Although I don’t believe it myself, it sure would be something.

But why would they even bother making a crappy Isaac AT in the first place if they were just going to get rid of it later on? If Isaac was truly planned for DLC they never had to do the AT. They could have just given us the spirits and the costume and then surprised us later on.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

So I was looking through a Smash UI image dump when I found the Isaac files in his Spirit.

The weird part is that he had his English name in the files and so wasn't referred to as Robin. Maybe they were somehow added by NoA?

Source: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KLU5EeIGGwCL1bJ4m_ERNe7DzS8MCSLS

 

[QcSlayer]

But why would they even bother making a crappy Isaac AT in the first place if they were just going to get rid of it later on? If Isaac was truly planned for DLC they never had to do the AT. They could have just given us the spirits and the costume and then surprised us later on.

They did the AT before planning the DLC, since they didn't know at the time who was going to be DLC, they did the AT in case he wasn't going to be playable. They could not know if Isaac was going to be on Nintendo list. And since we knot that Camelot wants to work on RPG, it's not farfetch to believe that he was on the list due to new GS game or popularity.

 

[JaidynReiman]

IIRC it’s a fan poll that asked what character people voted for during the ballot.

It’s nothing official, but houses a small sample of data that we can refer to.

Its not one poll. Its a compilation of multiple polls. And its been incredibly accurate. The grand majority of characters that placed near the top are in Smash in some way, including oddities like Shovel Knight as an Assist Trophy and Shantae as a spirit. GS got 8 spirits, a rarity among franchises without a playable character (second only to Rhythm Heaven), Isaac as an AT and Mii costume.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

 

[StrawHatX]

They did the AT before planning the DLC, since they didn't know at the time who was going to be DLC, they did the AT in case he wasn't going to be playable. They could not know if Isaac was going to be on Nintendo list. And since we knot that Camelot wants to work on RPG, it's not farfetch to believe that he was on the list due to new GS game or popularity.

I just don’t see them bothering working on an AT if they thought Isaac had any chance of being DLC. Again, they didn’t have to do the AT anyways. They could have just given us the costume and I feel like most of us would have been fine. The AT stung more than anything because Isaac was already an AT in Brawl. Seems to me most GS fans are MUCH happier with the costume.

And Nintendo is picking the DLC, but I’m sure Sakurai has been keeping them in the know about what characters are being what. If Nintendo had plans for Isaac I think they would have told him “Wait on Isaac because we might want him.”

Camelot wants to work on Shining Force. We haven’t heard much from them about GS in awhile. The trademark might mean some new GS news in the future so we can hold out hope for that. But I don’t see Isaac being in the first wave of DLC. Now if they do a second wave later on then it’s possible he could maybe be DLC because they obviously didn’t plan that far ahead yet.

 

[SonicLink125]

I just don’t see them bothering working on an AT if they thought Isaac had any chance of being DLC. Again, they didn’t have to do the AT anyways. They could have just given us the costume and I feel like most of us would have been fine. The AT stung more than anything because Isaac was already an AT in Brawl. Seems to me most GS fans are MUCH happier with the costume.

And Nintendo is picking the DLC, but I’m sure Sakurai has been keeping them in the know about what characters are being what. If Nintendo had plans for Isaac I think they would have told him “Wait on Isaac because we might want him.”

Camelot wants to work on Shining Force. We haven’t heard much from them about GS in awhile. The trademark might mean some new GS news in the future so we can hold out hope for that. But I don’t see Isaac being in the first wave of DLC. Now if they do a second wave later on then it’s possible he could maybe be DLC because they obviously didn’t plan that far ahead yet.

Maybe so, but it would be strange if the GS series didn’t have at least one AT in the game since ATs aren’t included in the DLC packs. That is if we’re getting a GS rep as DLC. Music is included in DLC though and we didn’t get any new songs despite getting a lot of other stuff in the game.

Plus, if Isaac was being planned for DLC, then not having his AT would raise a ton of suspicion and his reveal wouldn’t be as much of a surprise. That’s how I see it anyway.

I wouldn’t worry too much about Camelot not saying anything about GS right now. For all we know, they are keeping things quiet until they can announce a new GS game later on. Just my view on it anyway.

 

[Gioka]

I don't think he is planned for Wave 1 DLC, his only chance for that is a GS game being announced next year (to release in 2020 or 2021) given that Nintendo chose the initial list, and even then, it might not be Isaac (young Isaac) but another GS rep. That being said, we will have to wait. There was a direct rumored for this month (from the guys who accurately predicted the dates of the last 3 directs) but I don't know if they have update upon that. If we don't get it this week, I doubt we get any kind of direct until 2019.

By the way, has anyone seen XenoWarriorX ? Haven't seen him posting in a while

 

[StrawHatX]

Maybe so, but it would be strange if the GS series didn’t have at least one AT in the game since ATs aren’t included in the DLC packs. That is if we’re getting a GS rep as DLC. Music is included in DLC though and we didn’t get any new songs despite getting a lot of other stuff in the game.

Plus, if Isaac was being planned for DLC, then not having his AT would raise a ton of suspicion and his reveal wouldn’t be as much of a surprise. That’s how I see it anyway.

I wouldn’t worry too much about Camelot not saying anything about GS right now. For all we know, they are keeping things quiet until they can announce a new GS game later on. Just my view on it anyway.

I would agree that not having his AT would raise suspicion, but only if we didn’t get anything else. We got a Mii costume. So I don’t think they’d feel like they have to put a distraction AT in there.

I don’t think GS needs an assist trophy if it got a fighter, stage, and music tracks in the DLC pack along with the spirits we have and the costume. I’ll admit though the idea that some AT’s and poke balls don’t spawn in certain situations is very interesting.

 

[Xenigma]

It's really hard to say if Golden Sun having an AT/Mii Costume/Spirits/etc means anything for DLC until we actually start to see some of the DLC. Considering just how far reaching the references are in Spirits mode in particular, it sure seems like Sakurai was of the mind of appealing to as many fanbases as possible. It wouldn't be remotely surprising to find that, by the time DLC character decisions were made, a substantial amount of overlapping content had already been developed, particularly ATs which would each require substantial work to be implemented that I can't imagine would be tossed without extremely good reasons.

On the other hand, the DLC could all be third parties or new games like Three Houses, so it is difficult to say what is actually meaningful at this point. This further gets muddied if they decide to make further seasons of DLC as obviously those choices would have no bearing on what was included in the base game, so truly all bets would be off. For now, Isaac remains plausible, if unexpected, and we can't be sure as to his actual chances until we start to see what direction the DLC takes.

 

[Kalomaze]

Hey guys. So I had an idea I wanted to share.
After seeing the Golden Sunday thing, an idea popped up in my head.
Elite Smash is going to be used for balancing correct?
If many people come together and use the same isaac mii & outfit, and set their tags to something like "ReviveGoldenSun" or something akin to that, and have their Smash Tag be an isaac icon as he is selectable, it would be very noticeable, and if it's enough people, maybe theyd tell nintendo about it? They'd be bound to see it because of the weird erratic surge in Mii Swordfighters online, at the very least.

We could call it a pun or something. "Let Camelot Mii-ke a new gs"

 

[KHJason95]

Is it wrong of me to say I am actually 100% okay with Isaac being an assist trophy?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Is it wrong of me to say I am actually 100% okay with Isaac being an assist trophy?

I mean, that’s your opinion and no one can say that’s wrong. It’s only wrong if you try to impose said opinion on those that don’t share the same sentiment.

 

[tbuster766]

Is it wrong of me to say I am actually 100% okay with Isaac being an assist trophy?

Nope. So long as you aren't being obnoxious about it (Example: calling supporters delusional for so much as supporting him), you're good.

 

[QcSlayer]

Just want to be sure, we have weyard and felix theme, but not Isaac one (from brawl) right?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Just want to be sure, we have weyard and felix theme, but not Isaac one (from brawl) right?

We have two songs, currently, Dark Dawns Weyard theme and the Felix/Doom Dragon mashup (which is the very same from Brawl).

 

[StrawHatX]

We have two songs, currently, Dark Dawns Weyard theme and the Felix/Doom Dragon mashup (which is the very same from Brawl).

That is really weird that the Isaac theme isn’t there. It’s arguably the most iconic song from the series.

Again... I think if Isaac is DLC it won’t be until later, but the lack of music and especially his theme missing and us knowing that DLC characters come with music is interesting.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

That is really weird that the Isaac theme isn’t there. It’s arguably the most iconic song from the series.

Again... I think if Isaac is DLC it won’t be until later, but the lack of music and especially his theme missing and us knowing that DLC characters come with music is interesting.

To be fair, Isaac didn’t come to Brawl with his theme... he came with A mashup of Felix and Doom Dragon...

That being said I do find it odd that there’s not a single new track from Golden Sun. Not even a ripped one.

Especially since Sm4sh got a ripped Dark Dawn track... Isaac’s AT is the only returning AT to get a mechanical overhaul... has a Mii costume... and has a multitude of Spirits from the series.

But no new GS tracks. Weird.

 

[SPEN18]

Man I really would have liked Isaac's Battle Theme and Venus Lighthouse; they're so iconic.

I think Sakurai said in an interview that composers had some degree of freedom with regards to which tracks got remixes, so I wouldn't look too much into the music. Still, if Isaac were DLC I could see them holding back a couple remixes even if they were already made, especially if they were iconic songs like his Battle Theme.

 

[StrawHatX]

To be fair, Isaac didn’t come to Brawl with his theme... he came with A mashup of Felix and Doom Dragon...

That being said I do find it odd that there’s not a single new track from Golden Sun. Not even a ripped one.

Especially since Sm4sh got a ripped Dark Dawn track... Isaac’s AT is the only returning AT to get a mechanical overhaul... has a Mii costume... and has a multitude of Spirits from the series.

But no new GS tracks. Weird.

I forgot his theme wasn’t in Brawl. Guess it’s not that weird then.

But yeah, Golden Sun getting an assist trophy, all those spirits, and a costume and not getting any new songs other than the two Brawl ones is strange.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I forgot his theme wasn’t in Brawl. Guess it’s not that weird then.

But yeah, Golden Sun getting an assist trophy, all those spirits, and a costume and not getting any new songs other than the two Brawl ones is strange.

It certainly is giving me more hope again in us getting a golden sun rep into the fighter roster especially Isaac. If sakurai pulls it off, it will be one of the best moments for me in gaming.

 

[StrawHatX]

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/a0qimb/isaacs_spirit_battle_revealed/

Isaac’s spirit battle if you haven’t seen it yet.

 

[Deleted member]

And we could get songs not tied to the fighter in whenever a new fighter is added to DLC. So who knows what we'll get.

 

[SonicLink125]

It’s even more strange that Motoi Sakuraba is definitely working on Smash Ultimate music, but doesn’t make AT LEAST one new Golden Sun remix or just a rip.

Btw, I got these made for me and my friend:

Going to get these tomorrow along with a few other things. They’re not perfect, but hey, I seriously cannot complain. So excited!

 

[QcSlayer]

They are keeping the GS tracks for DLC.
Even if they did made some before the DLC were decided they would have remove it to sell them whit the bundle.

 

[tbuster766]

I really do find it weird that Isaac never had his battle theme at all in smash. Even Lip has her own respective theme alongside a mii costume to add. You would think that when introducing or reintroducing Isaac he'd at least have his appropriate battle theme from the series, especially when in Ultimate he has a new mii costume alongside 8 other spirits ( including the ability for his own spirit to evolve into his adult form).

 

[Undella2]

Call me foolish, but I'm still optimistic for Isaac's chances.

He's already gotten far better treatment in Ultimate then my other three most wanted characters...

 

[SPEN18]

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/a0qimb/isaacs_spirit_battle_revealed/

Isaac’s spirit battle if you haven’t seen it yet.

"Hostile assist trophies will appear"

I wonder which assist trophies lol

 

[Undella2]

"Hostile assist trophies will appear"

I wonder which assist trophies lol

Waluigi and Alucard, obviously...