Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[LegendOfDragoon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504831014703464460/505153315152199703/item.png

Could this be,,.?

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Slarnos/Golden Sun/2015-02-26_00045.jpg

 

[Delta64]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlphaOblivion7/status/1055576381416005633

Might be isaacs growth as a item so might help the leak

What footage?

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlphaOblivion7/status/1055576381416005633

Might be isaacs growth as a item so might help the leak

Someone pointed out that it also looks like the Leech Seeds from Pokemon. Not 100% sure of course but a solid guess

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Potential GS item shown in a smash trailer.

 

[?!?!?!]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504831014703464460/505153315152199703/item.png

Could this be,,.?

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Slarnos/Golden Sun/2015-02-26_00045.jpg

Idk about this one, like the sprout definitely looks the same but why would a growth sprout be an item in smash? That's probably the weirdest choice of items to have from golden sun in smash. Also although it's just an item I don't think Nintendo would purposely show something from a currently unrepresented franchise, especially for a highly speculated character like Isaac

Like I guess it could be a tease...but I don't think so

 

[THE 6r]

While Chiroz does make a valid point and has an excellent video on how one could change the background if they wanted to, I just believe this to be real. The fact that it's still alive after almost two full days of the entire community throwing everything and the kitchen sink at this leak only to still be inconclusive says something for sure.

 

[Chiroz]

Why are you trying so hard to disprove this if you want Isaac? There is little hope if we subscribe to the box theory.

When I first analyzed the background I was looking for proof that the leak was real, but instead found otherwise and I just wanted to show my findings to others who might want to also know whether it was real or fake but maybe didn't know where to look for it.

Just watched the videos by Chiroz , and while I'm not convinced fake I definitely see where the sentiment comes from. On my phone so I'll try to stay brief, but here's a couple of details this makes me wonder about:

- While it is certainly possible to remove characters, it does appear that doing so without errors is relatively non-trivial since you have to clean up any details missed on a lasso and possibly draw any new parts of characters that are uncovered. Even if that is 5-10 minutes per character on average we're talking many hours of work for the banner and empty Battlefield alone, never mind the rest of the leak.

Yes, Vaanrose was explaining to me today how doing it with one lasso is wrong and you should subdivide the character into several sections and do 1 section at a time. Then once you are done you can do 1 final lasso over the whole new "filled section" and then pass over that section with a second tool. Also as you said, yea, any character that had a part that was covered would need the person to draw that new part, but I would like to point out that as the picture is so blurry the piece of the character that was drawn wouldn't need to be very "well done" although it could be well done too.

You are right it would take an extensive amount of time. Vaanrose attributed it to about 5 mins for each character without the cleanup. There's 3 murals with 70 chars easy, 210 chars, about 1050 minutes or close to 18 hours without a cleanup for a "good artist". So we could be looking at 20-40 hours of work just in the murals.

- It appears that the leaked Battlefield and the one used up to now in the background are quite different, both with simplified details and a much darker, sunset-esque sky. Considering this would presumably be the final banner, I can see why they might have intentionally made this version to allow the characters to stand out more from what was a rather colorful backdrop.

As it is I remain in the camp of it more likely than not being real, but I like having this sort of analysis to consider.

I would say the problem I personally have with this theory is that almost every single change (if not every single change) is behind a character in the leaked mural, so it's not going to change anything in the final outcome. Characters won't really stand out more since the change that was made is not even shown in either the previous or the leaked version that contains the characters.

but what about everything else that just lines up way too well? There's discrepancies in the art sure, but everything else just lines up.

The way I see it, and it doesn't mean you have to see it as I do I am just sharing how I normally analyze things, is that nothing is either real or fake until proven so. Everything can be faked, it doesn't mean it was faked. Everything can be leaked for real, it doesn't mean it was actually leaked.

In my mind, there is very credible proof that the blank render of battlefield was made up and is not in any way official. Everything else, the mural with the characters, the Grinch, the open documents with calculations for a chandelier, the fact that it's printed, the name on the paper, it can all be faked. It doesn't mean it was faked, what it means is that it hasn't been proven either way. So we have something that is almost definitely fake and like 10 things that we have no idea if they are faked or not.

I truly believe that if your only reason to believe the leak is because it has way too many things at the same time (it has like 12 different variables), you should probably divide it into it's variables and then check which variables you believe in a vacuum. So, like do you believe that Grinch promotional art is real? I wouldn't just say: "It has to be because there's all this other stuff". Do you believe the guy named in the paper is the actual leaker or actual owner of those documents? Is there any proof that he is?

Until now I haven't seen a single thing actually confirming any of the other points (aside from someone saying that they read someone said they saw the snapchat post, which is a vast amount of hearsay and telephone coming from an unknown source that could also be faked), but somehow all those points make the leak more valid without them being valid themselves.

Yea, if this is in fact fake, for sure whomever decided to do this would have to be very meticulous and plan out a whole story and such which sounds crazy, but it's not impossible. As such I just try to analyze what I can and can't actually prove, because everything else is just speculation.

I hope I am not coming off as rude, I am trying hard not to be as most people in the thread are considering me to be rude.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

What is the general opinion on the leak? Anything presented that has debunked it?

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Idk about this one, like the sprout definitely looks the same but why would a growth sprout be an item in smash? That's probably the weirdest choice of items to have from golden sun in smash. Also although it's just an item I don't think Nintendo would purposely show something from a currently unrepresented franchise, especially for a highly speculated character like Isaac

Because it would be fine as a new GS item. Throw it at an enemy and they get wrapped up in vines. Button mash to get out, It fits, it works, though I feel you on the leak thing. They've been super careful. Bloody tears did happen though, and this is a lot smaller than that.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

What makes me think this leak has credibility more than the grinch or the work place and all, Is how accurate and never seen before some of the characters renders are. I mean Isaac using the vines with flint besides him ? We’ve never seen something like that. Same for the chorus kids, have you ever seen a leak about them where the conductor is involved ? I’m a Rhythm heaven fan and I don’t even think anyone on smashboards or wherever I can think of ever mentioned or thought the conductor could be part of the character. It’s the kind of attention to details and on point accuracy Sakurai is known for. Maybe I’m grasping at Isaac’s vines here but imo this would have required deep knowledge of these series and on point creativity that sounds like too much for a fake leak.

 

[?!?!?!]

Yeah idk

Because it would be fine as a new GS item. Throw it at an enemy and they get wrapped up in vines. Button mash to get out, It fits, it works, though I feel you on the leak thing. They've been super careful. Bloody tears did happen though, and this is a lot smaller than that.

I suppose yeah, it just makes more sense as one of Isaacs moves since in gs growth is not a physical item (obvs) but yeah that thing is interesting nonetheless

 

[THE 6r]

What is the general opinion on the leak? Anything presented that has debunked it?

Nope, still living', still dividing the community.

 

[QcSlayer]

So I was wondering if the Item could be link to healing field, we can see it at 2:25, it's not healing field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcuL7Xg11o

Ether Psynergies just spawn randomly in a bubble on the field or my theory:

Djiin are an Item which can appear on the stage, when defeated (just like in GS) they drop a spell base on their element.

 

[Xenigma]

I hope I am not coming off as rude, I am trying hard not to be as most people in the thread are considering me to be rude.

You're good man, no shame in actively defending your viewpoint, especially when you've gone to the length of recording a video on the subject. Honestly kind of refreshing to have someone actively working on debunking when Isaac fans have every reason to defend this leak.

 

[tveye]

Someone pointed out that it also looks like the Leech Seeds from Pokemon. Not 100% sure of course but a solid guess

Definitely looks more like Leech Seed, but who knows...

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Because it would be fine as a new GS item. Throw it at an enemy and they get wrapped up in vines. Button mash to get out, It fits, it works, though I feel you on the leak thing. They've been super careful. Bloody tears did happen though, and this is a lot smaller than that.

Sure it makes sense... if you don’t take into account the Bramble Seed which actually is an item and not Psynergy. It would achieve a similar effect but with thorny vines. Why not just go for that?

Unless. Wild idea here: Psynergy is treated like Pokeballs lol

 

[OpticalBlast]

I found this image of an item from the Wendy's trailer from Ultimate.
View attachment 172061

What could this mean?

A sprout? It can be Growth.

Here's a shoddy side-by-side I made:

It does look similar, and it's easy to see how they would implement this (a vertical vine that traps opponents). Then again, it could just be a Smash-exclusive item (plus, it's not like a generic sprout design is a Golden Sun exclusive thing lol). Interesting find.

Would you mind posting a link to the trailer?

 

[?!?!?!]

That would be a pretty cool idea now that I think of it, elemental orbs. Different psynergy attack for each element. But the item itself wouldn't originate from gs, just the effect would lol

 

[Oracle_Summon]

So if the leak is true we get:

• Isaac
• Ken
• Chorus Kids
• Banjo
• Geno
• Mach Rider
• Shadow

Sounds good for a final roster count.

 

[Chiroz]

I did watch your video. And my take on it is, sure it's possible. But is it plausible? Would someone truly go through the trouble of cutting out every single character out of every single mural, stacking those murals up to reconstruct the back, then creating the new characters, and meticulously sorting them out on the new mural? Fooling the internet is one thing. Creating a massive hoax that seemingly covered every single angle. Why would you do that when you could very simply just dump the fake mural on a 4chan post? Why hunt down an employee working at a European company, said company having connections to companies that could be involved with smash? When SAID ACTION WOULD BE ILLEGAL IMPERSONATION!?!?! Why include characters from a SPECIFIC 4chan post? Why pick characters that would line up perfectly with CoroCoro, Sakurai's mech toy, fan demand, Sakurai's personal wants, a character approved by Phil Spencer himself!?!?!?!!? There's a point where the raw time investment necessary goes from the realms of the realistic which is needed to fool the web, and into the literally impossible and absurd.

It took me a half hour to replicate what you did with Diddy kong. Going pixel by pixel as you suggested. Diddy Kong, one of the simplest characters on the mural. There are 24 hours in a day. 730 hours in a month. For me to replicate this it would take thousands of hours. And at that point, i'd just make it a publicly available art project. We are 40 hours into this leak. 24 hours is the expiration point where you can walk and laugh "HAH HAH IT WAS ME" like Artsi Omni with Rayman. Now we're just at the point where walking out would just get you hated on. And let's be real here, the only reason you invest time like that is to gain some notoriety in the art community. This is millions of miles removed from Artsi Omni and Rayman. He made a short video of rayman with nearly no audio and a background for the flame image that took but a few hours to debunk. We're 40 hours removed from ground zero and still debating the logistics of the look. That ALONE speaks to the effort and quality.

I actually agree with this. It is quite crazy to believe someone decided to spend all this time on making this leak with no gain whatsoever. I do think this is a valid counterpoint, but...

It is just as hard for me to believe though that Nintendo decided to change parts of the background that don't actually change anything in the final product. This is the equivalent of a blind guy spending time, money and effort to paint the inside of his house red even though he has never invited anyone over and he can't see the walls himself. To me it's the same amount of crazy, lol.

 

[?!?!?!]

So if the leak is true we get:

• Isaac
• Ken
• Chorus Kids
• Banjo
• Geno
• Mach Rider
• Shadow

Sounds good for a final roster count.

Sounds VERY good, like INSANELY good for a final roster

 

[Chiroz]

Idk about this one, like the sprout definitely looks the same but why would a growth sprout be an item in smash? That's probably the weirdest choice of items to have from golden sun in smash. Also although it's just an item I don't think Nintendo would purposely show something from a currently unrepresented franchise, especially for a highly speculated character like Isaac

Like I guess it could be a tease...but I don't think so

Is there a video of the trailer? This is pretty interesting.

 

[Solbliminal]

I'm on the side of this being real honestly. I don't really feel the need to argue it to be fact or fake. If its fake its fake and I'll deal with that disappointment when it comes. All we really need is a single reveal to prove either side. The moment a character's art matches the one from the leak is the moment we will know 100% without a doubt this is the real deal.

This is, after all, assuming that the next reveal doesn't show everything. I personally believe the next Smash "direct" or whatever form of presentation they choose will be the be all end all of the reveals.

 

[?!?!?!]

Is there a video of the trailer? This is pretty interesting.

Apparently there is but I've only seen the screenshot. I think it's from some wendy's sponsored tournament or something along those lines

Edit: here it is https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1055519359622410241?s=19

 

[Chiroz]

Someone pointed out that it also looks like the Leech Seeds from Pokemon. Not 100% sure of course but a solid guess

While it does remind me of leech seed no other Pokemon attack has ever been an item, right? So I don't think it would be something like that.

 

[QcSlayer]

Apparently there is but I've only seen the screenshot. I think it's from some wendy's sponsored tournament or something along those lines

Edit: here it is https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1055519359622410241?s=19

At 27 second we see it on the right.

 

[?!?!?!]

While it does remind me of leech seed no other Pokemon attack has ever been an item, right? So I don't think it would be something like that.

Yeah it's weird since it would be an attack from pokemon and maybe golden sun but...as an item lol

 

[Pwnapplez]

Numb nuts, it is clearly a leaf behind 50 to summon a flower shield. 50 confirmed

 

[Dihan]

00:27

https://www.facebook.com/Nintendo/videos/321762928638363/

 

[Organization XIII]

I'm on the side of this being real honestly. I don't really feel the need to argue it to be fact or fake. If its fake its fake and I'll deal with that disappointment when it comes. All we really need is a single reveal to prove either side. The moment a character's art matches the one from the leak is the moment we will know 100% without a doubt this is the real deal.

This is, after all, assuming that the next reveal doesn't show everything. I personally believe the next Smash "direct" or whatever form of presentation they choose will be the be all end all of the reveals.

We only need one character reveal period. If a character comes that's not on the leak it's fake, if a character on the leak comes and their pose is different it's fake, if a character comes that was on the leak and it's pose matches it's almost guaranteed to be real.
Edit I misread your post my bad ignore me.

 

[Chiroz]

At 27 second we see it.

So we can start counting out it being part of a new stage or something left behind by a Djin or AT. It seems to be it's own item. What if "Overworld" Psynergies such as Frost and Growth were made into items?

 

[?!?!?!]

Wait a minute that **** is just a baby grinch

Pick it up and it leaks the whole roster

 

[Solbliminal]

We only need one character reveal period. If a character comes that's not on the leak it's fake, if a character on the leak comes and their pose is different it's fake, if a character comes that was on the leak and it's pose matches it's almost guaranteed to be real.
Edit I misread your post my bad ignore me.

Lol. I can see the hype is getting to some of us. No worries m8. I'm anxious too. I want it to be over with.

 

[Metocles]

What footage?

Video Here Stop this video at 00:27. It's only 55 seconds long, you should be on the F-Zero stage and the item seems to be on the rightmost platform. I don't know if there's anybody who was actually there when this footage might have been taken or if the item was actually used?

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

While it does remind me of leech seed no other Pokemon attack has ever been an item, right? So I don't think it would be something like that.

I agree. It's strange that the leech seed would be the first non-PokeBall Pokemon item.

 

[Rummy]

I heard some talk that the item shown here was from Ever Oasis, but i haven't found anything as of yet that can signal against Golden Sun's item inclusion.

 

[Solbliminal]

Video Here Stop this video at 00:27. It's only 55 seconds long, you should be on the F-Zero stage and the item seems to be on the rightmost platform. I don't know if there's anybody who was actually there when this footage might have been taken or if the item was actually used?

A suggestion to what it might be. This is reminding me of the Electroplankton stage. It looks like a plant in a bubble.

 

[Billybae10K]

We can also assume that it's not healing field, as the healing field item, despite having a similar icon, was in a bag when the item got shown off at E3.

 

[FlintIke]

I hope I am not coming off as rude, I am trying hard not to be as most people in the thread are considering me to be rude.

Don't worry I can respect every opinion if someone gave it some thought and being respectful to each other should be a give and take in the first place lol.

By the by it was already mentioned by Flynn.Scifo , but my main issue is the love to the details as well. Like why would you make such details for Isaac and Chorus Kids for example. Like either you are rly good at editing and did a loooooot of research = godlike fake

OR

This is totally legit.

 

[Q-Long]

If I recall some Mario and Pikmin enemies have those sprouts