Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Arsenal234]

Let’s be real, at least 70% of the #teamfake people are people who are not getting the character they want.

Honestly if Isaac was not on the "banner leak'" most of us here would be on #teamfake.

 

[tveye]

I would be extremely curious as to why Nintendo decided to specifically change exactly all those spots on the background that the characters are blocking while leaving everything else exactly the same. If it doesn't change anything in the final product (as the characters are blocking it anyways) why even go through the trouble of changing it? What's more, if you're going to go through the trouble of updating your background, why not also change the parts that are visible?

If you want me to come to this thread and apologize or such, I would be very glad to do so. I would be extremely happy to have Banjo and Isaac in the game. Isaac is literally top 3 most wanted since Brawl speculation days back in 2007, my top 1 most wanted for this game (if I don't count impossible characters such as Goku, yea I want Goku, so what?). It's not like I am trying to make this leak fake. I am merely pointing out things that are just too coincidental to not be facts.

I watched your first video, haven't seen the second yet. Anyways, I'd like to add an artist's perspective. I've done some drawings in the past where I drew a bunch of characters separately to add into a background. This is a drawing I made where each character was drawn separately before combining them into one piece. Unfortunately I never got around to adding a background since I'm terrible at them, but here's another piece I did following the same principle. Basically, I draw each character separately and then move them around where I need them to be.
If the mural artist followed the same general idea, then there would be no need to add senseless details that would just be covered up anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the empty Battlefield image everyone is comparing the leaked one to just the empty stage? Whereas the one seen in the mural is a painting.

 

[Arteen]

I would be extremely curious as to why Nintendo decided to specifically change exactly all those spots on the background that the characters are blocking while leaving everything else exactly the same. If it doesn't change anything in the final product (as the characters are blocking it anyways) why even go through the trouble of changing it? What's more, if you're going to go through the trouble of updating your background, why not also change the parts that are actually visible? It makes very little sense.

Then again, if the box theory holds true (which I don't believe in) I would also be extremely curious as to why they decided to do 9 on one side and 9 on another but do 6x6 square grid. Like if you wanted all OG8 on one side, why not just have the first 36 on one side? If you wanted half of each game's roster on one side (half of 64, half of Melee, etc), why not change it from a 6x6 grid to something that allows you to do that more easily like a 4x9 or something with the OG8 all on one side. But in the Box theory's defense at least, this illogical pattern wouldn't require a ton of amount of unnecessary work (as opposed to if the leak holds true).

If you want me to come to this thread and apologize or such, I would be very glad to do so. I would be extremely happy to have Banjo and Isaac in the game. Isaac is literally top 3 most wanted since Brawl speculation days back in 2007, my top 1 most wanted for this game (if I don't count impossible characters such as Goku, yea I want Goku, so what?). It's not like I am trying to make this leak fake. I am merely pointing out things that are just too coincidental to not be facts.

I can imagine a scenario where the original background presents minor readability issues when the game logo is placed over it.

That said, the different background is what makes me doubt the leak the most.

 

[EarlTamm]

Honestly if Isaac was not on the "banner leak'" most of us here would be on #teamfake.

Bias goes both ways after all, just human nature.

I am neutral on this whole thing. Trust me, this is the roster dreams are made out of, but I fear rushing head first into all of this.

 

[SonicLink125]

Even if this leak turns out to be fake, there's still a lot going for Isaac that suggests he's playable in the end. So, I'm not worried what happens with this leak.

Still, if the leak turns out to be a fake, then this would have been the absolute greatest hoax of all time. And not just for Smash Bros. either.

 

[Delta64]

Can't we all get along? Do we really need to divide the community into Team Fake and Team Real? Let us try to be respectful.

 

[Chiroz]

I watched your first video, haven't seen the second yet. Anyways, I'd like to add an artist's perspective. I've done some drawings in the past where I drew a bunch of characters separately to add into a background. This is a drawing I made where each character was drawn separately before combining them into one piece. Unfortunately I never got around to adding a background since I'm terrible at them, but here's another piece I did following the same principle. Basically, I draw each character separately and then move them around where I need them to be.
If the mural artist followed the same general idea, then there would be no need to add senseless details that would just be covered up anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the empty Battlefield image everyone is comparing the leaked one to just the empty stage? Whereas the one seen in the mural is a painting.

I don't quite understand your question, could you rephrase it?

I'll try to explain what I can, the "Official E3 blank battlefield" was screencapped from an animation where the characters start popping in right before they popped in. The leak itself has an empty battlefield image that does not match either the in-game stage itself or the E3 blank battlefield mural. It has a background around 75% consistent with the "Official E3 blank battlefield" but with inconsistencies present exactly where characters would block the view of the background.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Honestly if Isaac was not on the "banner leak'" most of us here would be on #teamfake.

I’m not blamming people for that, just pointing it out.

 

[VexTheHex]

https://youtu.be/fzc_E_mFq2k
https://youtu.be/HpXmqvIEdzY

Had to divide video into 2 sections. Please just look at it with an open mind and look for objective arguments. Forgive me for my lack of professionalism or video editing, I don't know how to do that kind of stuff. Also I know one of my biggest faults as a person is that I over explain and talk too much in general, which I kind of do in the video.

Also I think I forgot to talk about the autofill on the video, lmao. I don't remember but that's because it's not even as important as the other stuff I talk about.

Good videos. I think they are helpful in showcasing how the leak could of been made. It didn't take long and as you said you aren't an expert on it yourself. Now imagine someone who is devoted to becoming the biggest troll leaker of all time or just wanted to take a stab at Smash or Nintendo that has GA training... bam easy mode.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Artsy Omni did a comparison on YouTube between the empty battlefiled from E3 and the one used in the leak pointing at weird inconsistencies. Not really good for the leak’s credibility if you ask me.

You can't trust any of the smash 'expert's' anymore. There's too much vitriol and bias in all of them. You have to got to smaller channels to get any good information now.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Honestly if Isaac was not on the "banner leak'" most of us here would be on #teamfake.

I'd be on team real even if Isaac wasn't there.

 

[Nazyrus]

Yeah I don't get this bias towards fake in a SUPPORT thread either. Not only it's pretty baseless, but it's no even the point of the thread either.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

We need Nindento to fix it, either proving it fake or real I mean. The next direct / reveal will be so crucial and tense !

 

[tveye]

I don't quite understand your question, could you rephrase it?

I'll try to explain what I can, the "Official E3 blank battlefield" was screencapped from an animation where the characters start popping in right before they popped in. The leak itself has an empty battlefield image that does not match either the in-game stage itself or the E3 blank battlefield mural. It has a background around 75% consistent with the "Official E3 blank battlefield" but with inconsistencies present exactly where characters would block the view of the background.

I see. I just assumed people were comparing it to the Battlefield stage.

 

[FlintIke]

Honestly if Isaac was not on the "banner leak'" most of us here would be on #teamfake.

I have to say, and I speak for myself at least, I think that Isaac is gonna be in regardless of the leak. It just would be amazing if it turns out correct since that final roster would make lots of people happy.

 

[VexTheHex]

Yeah I don't get this bias towards fake in a SUPPORT thread either. Not only it's pretty baseless, but it's no even the point of the thread either.

Baseless? Did you not watch that guy's video of him removing Diddy in like 2 minute time span? And how the area that couldn't easily be faked by the leaker seem inconsistent with official images? That's pretty solid proof there could be flaws in this leak. It's not the nail in the coffin, but don't try to deny this ship has holes.

The half effort attempt to hide "their" identity is what made me skeptical the most, but these videos are showing there are other holes to.

Being open minded to how it can be real or fake is better than blindly following it. This thread derails a lot, so I don't think it derailing in regards to discussing a leak that has (or even didn't have) Isaac is off limits as at least it's about him unlike other discussions that have been on here.

Also pretty much every thread is talking about this leak now. It's been pretty dead overall. Hate or love it, this leak is pretty much 99% of the activity now. :/

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'd be on team real even if Isaac wasn't there.

Same. I've doubted numerous past leaks despite Isaac being on them. I doubted this one at first until all the facts started coming out about the situation.

It's not even about the banner art at all. That proves who the characters are, but I understand how easy that specifically would be to fake. It's everything else. The studio, the person, the format, the actual prints and design docs. And especially the Grinch himself.

There's just no possible way it's fake. And no, the render being imconsistent is not an issue. It's already been proven to be inconsistent between each variation of the art.

 

[VexTheHex]

Same. I've doubted numerous past leaks despite Isaac being on them. I doubted this one at first until all the facts started coming out about the situation.

It's not even about the banner art at all. That proves who the characters are, but I understand how easy that specifically would be to fake. It's everything else. The studio, the person, the format, the actual prints and design docs. And especially the Grinch himself.

There's just no possible way it's fake. And no, the render being imconsistent is not an issue. It's already been proven to be inconsistent between each variation of the art.

Supply this evidence? Where has it been proven the background has changed between murals? Not character placement, the actual background making large changes.

(PS I wouldn't mind if this was the roster, I'd prefer this leak get confirmed fake so there's still wonder and curiosity for the next direct even if it turned out to still be these characters. Cause if this is real, the roster is over and we're done talking. Direct will be obvious and dull besides Spirit Mode.)

 

[Chiroz]

I see. I just assumed people were comparing it to the Battlefield stage.

Nah, the in-game battlefield stage actually has a very different background than the mural, but the background of the battlefield on the leak is definitely from the mural.

There's just no possible way it's fake. And no, the render being imconsistent is not an issue. It's already been proven to be inconsistent between each variation of the art.

Could you show me specifically where it's inconsistent in past versions? As I've said the ones that were posted on general were all shot down by numerous artist and that post from another board was also instantly show down by artists, so I'd like to see if there is still one that hasn't been shot down.

Also you should watch my video if you can, if offers a good differing point of view.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

https://youtu.be/fzc_E_mFq2k
https://youtu.be/HpXmqvIEdzY

Had to divide video into 2 sections. Please just look at it with an open mind and look for objective arguments. Forgive me for my lack of professionalism or video editing, I don't know how to do that kind of stuff. Also I know one of my biggest faults as a person is that I over explain and talk too much in general, which I kind of do in the video.

Also I think I forgot to talk about the autofill on the video, lmao. I don't remember but that's because it's not even as important as the other stuff I talk about.

Watched both videos. You made very good points, and Artsy Omni just reinforced them. You also come off much nicer in the video than you do in your posts. You were clear and confident but not a jerk. You've convinced me.

 

[TempestSurge]

Supply this evidence? Where has it been proven the background has changed between murals? Not character placement, the actual background making large changes.

(PS I wouldn't mind if this was the roster, I'd prefer this leak get confirmed fake so there's still wonder and curiosity for the next direct even if it turned out to still be these characters. Cause if this is real, the roster is over and we're done talking. Direct will be obvious and dull besides Spirit Mode.)

If this is fake people will go back to Verge gospel of Incineroar, Ken (and the Square rep), so unless Sakurai pulls something else out of his hat, you're out of luck of wanting to be surprised.

 

[Deleted member]

Day Two of the Grinch Leak; I am convinced that there is far more to this story that has yet to be revealed, especially now that we know that the two companies looked into by inquisitive reporters had two men with the exact same name, further muddling the waters. Critics and supporters alike want this to be proved or debunked, with varying degrees of enthusiasm or contempt.

I, myself, am confident in my camp, though I also must attest to the potential blowback and, in turn, must recognize the proper code of conduct needed to... ah, I can't even finish this diary prose right.

Somebody suggested on the main thread as to how we will be sick of the "Banner Leak" or "Grinch Leak" by this time tonight, and as far as I'm concerned, it's only gotten more intense, and once more, the fact that we haven't discovered anything truly concrete that debunks this just shows how true it will likely turn out.

At this very point, it should be safe that this is our final roster and that if there's anybody that we are missing that we want, we should start looking into DLC and begin campaigning for whatever we believe is missing to this component. After all, there's a few characters that I feel should be put in the game (Medusa and Rayman come to mind), but they could be saved for later due to complexities or if Sakurai decided that there was an economical gain to them being DLC, even though such logic was against his line of thinking 4 years ago.

That being said... the strangest asset that I see from this is that Microsoft willingly let Banjo & Kazooie be playable as both on the base game, and (right now) without any incentives that could benefit Microsoft. Granted, this could be Phil Spencer being polite because he sees the market potential, not to mention the gaming history aspect, of having them in the base game, but I assumed Banjo would be a DLC bundle with other Microsoft assets.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Why are you trying so hard to disprove this if you want Isaac? There is little hope if we subscribe to the box theory.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I found this image of an item from the Wendy's trailer from Ultimate.

What could this mean?

A sprout? It can be Growth.

 

[NessAtc.]

Why are you trying so hard to disprove this if you want Isaac? There is little hope if we subscribe to the box theory.

Well, many people here do believe Isaac is in, grinch leak being real or fake notwithstanding. It's not the end-all-be-all, many people voted for him to be in.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I really recommend y'all watch Chiroz and Artsy Omni's videos about the blank battle field. They both confirmed that the blank battle field in the leak is almost certainly fake

 

[Organization XIII]

Why are you trying so hard to disprove this if you want Isaac? There is little hope if we subscribe to the box theory.

If this is fake is it any better that we believe? Blind faith because it has our character on it isn't a good thing. There is a possibility it could be fake despite it having so much that makes it credible. Being aware of the full situation is honestly what we should do.

I really recommend y'all watch Chiroz and Artsy Omni's videos about the blank battle field. They both confirmed that the blank battle field in the leak is almost certainly fake

possibly fake. If it were so easy to disprove the leak would already be dead mate.

 

[NessAtc.]

I really recommend y'all watch Chiroz and Artsy Omni's videos about the blank battle field. They both confirmed that the blank battle field in the leak is almost certainly fake

I personally have already done so, and I remain unconvinced.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. It just means my judgement was off. There is way too much to this for me to feasibly see this being fake.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

There is no logical way it can be fake at this point.

 

[TappyBat]

I really recommend y'all watch Chiroz and Artsy Omni's videos about the blank battle field. They both confirmed that the blank battle field in the leak is almost certainly fake

Well ****.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

but what about everything else that just lines up way too well? There's discrepancies in the art sure, but everything else just lines up.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Artsy Omni is biased and the nit pickiness shows.

 

[QcSlayer]

Chiroz Did have good point, however I'm still in team True, the Grinch make it seems way to real and it could be missing some details because of the size of the original image or be a print test.

If the leaker wanted us to believe the leak, he would have add Incineroar.

 

[Xenigma]

Just watched the videos by Chiroz , and while I'm not convinced fake I definitely see where the sentiment comes from. On my phone so I'll try to stay brief, but here's a couple of details this makes me wonder about:

- While it is certainly possible to remove characters, it does appear that doing so without errors is relatively non-trivial since you have to clean up any details missed on a lasso and possibly draw any new parts of characters that are uncovered. Even if that is 5-10 minutes per character on average we're talking many hours of work for the banner and empty Battlefield alone, never mind the rest of the leak.

- It appears that the leaked Battlefield and the one used up to now in the background are quite different, both with simplified details and a much darker, sunset-esque sky. Considering this would presumably be the final banner, I can see why they might have intentionally made this version to allow the characters to stand out more from what was a rather colorful backdrop.

As it is I remain in the camp of it more likely than not being real, but I like having this sort of analysis to consider.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Cant get more true, btw 26k posts almost :O Thread is growing exponentially.

 

[SonicLink125]

But wait though, wasn't the E3 pic of the empty battlefield animated? Like, the waterfall moved for example. Wouldn't a painting and an animated background have slight differences to each other? Like for the painting, it's missing some things as to not clash with the characters?

Just something that popped in my head.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Nah, the in-game battlefield stage actually has a very different background than the mural, but the background of the battlefield on the leak is definitely from the mural.






Could you show me specifically where it's inconsistent in past versions? As I've said the ones that were posted on general were all shot down by numerous artist and that post from another board was also instantly show down by artists, so I'd like to see if there is still one that hasn't been shot down.

Also you should watch my video, that is if you actually want to see a differing point of view.

I did watch your video. And my take on it is, sure it's possible. But is it plausible? Would someone truly go through the trouble of cutting out every single character out of every single mural, stacking those murals up to reconstruct the back, then creating the new characters, and meticulously sorting them out on the new mural? Fooling the internet is one thing. Creating a massive hoax that seemingly covered every single angle. Why would you do that when you could very simply just dump the fake mural on a 4chan post? Why hunt down an employee working at a European company, said company having connections to companies that could be involved with smash? When SAID ACTION WOULD BE ILLEGAL IMPERSONATION!?!?! Why include characters from a SPECIFIC 4chan post? Why pick characters that would line up perfectly with CoroCoro, Sakurai's mech toy, fan demand, Sakurai's personal wants, a character approved by Phil Spencer himself!?!?!?!!? There's a point where the raw time investment necessary goes from the realms of the realistic which is needed to fool the web, and into the literally impossible and absurd.

It took me a half hour to replicate what you did with Diddy kong. Going pixel by pixel as you suggested. Diddy Kong, one of the simplest characters on the mural. There are 24 hours in a day. 730 hours in a month. For me to replicate this it would take thousands of hours. And at that point, i'd just make it a publicly available art project. We are 40 hours into this leak. 24 hours is the expiration point where you can walk and laugh "HAH HAH IT WAS ME" like Artsi Omni with Rayman. Now we're just at the point where walking out would just get you hated on. And let's be real here, the only reason you invest time like that is to gain some notoriety in the art community. This is millions of miles removed from Artsi Omni and Rayman. He made a short video of rayman with nearly no audio and a background for the flame image that took but a few hours to debunk. We're 40 hours removed from ground zero and still debating the logistics of the look. That ALONE speaks to the effort and quality.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I actually agree with Chiroz , he makes good points and this corroborate with Artsy. Remember that it’s still a leak, claming it’s 100% real is probably not more reasonable than claming it’s 100% fake. I personnaly think there is still good things going for this leak to be true but I’ll keep a skeptical approach until further investigation and I suggest you guys do the same for hype control sake.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlphaOblivion7/status/1055576381416005633

Might be isaacs growth as a item so might help the leak

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Yeah unfortunately I'm gonna migrate to the fake camp. I do think we'll get a direct next week though