Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Organization XIII]

I should've also mentioned that the ballot audience is also completely different from Pokemon's, which is what I'm getting at as well.

It's a sample, just not an important one if you wanna pick a Pokemon.

Ok that's a much better point than the size being too small.

 

[Spinosaurus]

But isn't that what a sample size is? It would also have to factor in how many people bothered to vote in the ballot itself.
Edit: Maybe a good majority of Pokemon fans did not bother to vote in the ballot?

Yeah I really doubt it. Ballot is very likely indicative of what Smash fans want, not Pokemon fans. Pokemon is very much a special case.

Generations 3 and 5 got skipped over for a Pokemon rep so I don't see why Gen 7 not getting a character is a big deal.

It's not, but if a previous gen got a Pokemon over them it would be extremely weird unless it's like Eevee or something I guess.

 

[StormC]

Really? Because I see it the opposite. The Paon design is flatter with no visible scales. The only real similarity I can see is the jewel on his cape. Otherwise he looks almost exactly like his Rare design.

The color of the skin and the gold belly are taken from the Rare design. Most everything else is based on the Paon one.

Compare the proportions, the small crown, the shorter snout and general shape of the face to this:

And also compare it to the sprite in Jungle Climber, which is pretty close to how the Smash design looks, I think:

It's a mix but it definitely favors the Paon design. It's more-or-less the Paon design with textures resembling the Rare design.

 

[tveye]

Yeah I really doubt it. Ballot is very likely indicative of what Smash fans want, not Pokemon fans. Pokemon is very much a special case.

Japan was polled for gen 7, I should point out. Their favorite Pokemon was Rowlett. Their favorite final evolution was Primarina.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Yeah I really doubt it. Ballot is very likely indicative of what Smash fans want, not Pokemon fans. Pokemon is very much a special case.

So, if I understand you correctly, the ballot votes for Pokemon reps in Smash were not properly representative of fans of both Pokemon and Smash brothers?

It's not, but if a previous gen got a Pokemon over them it would be extremely weird unless it's like Eevee or something I guess.

I mean Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard got in Brawl over any Gen 3 Pokemon so it is possible. It is not like skipping a Gen 7 Pokemon would be out of the blue for a past or upcoming Gen.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Japan was polled for gen 7, I should point out. Their favorite Pokemon was Rowlett. Their favorite final evolution was Primarina.

Yep! If popularity was the deciding factor for Pokemon, Rowlet or Mimikyu would've been the go to, easy. (Mimikyu got higher than Rowlet in a recent survey for kids, but I don't have it in hand since the translated post got deleted for whatever reason, so you just gotta take my word on that one.)

But Sakurai wouldn't had have known that at the time obviously, so whoever gets in (Incineroar likely) was probably just Sakurai's personal pick in the end like Greninja.

So, if I understand you correctly, the ballot votes for Pokemon reps in Smash were not properly representative of fans of both Pokemon and Smash brothers?



I mean Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard got in Brawl over any Gen 3 Pokemon so it is possible. It is not like skipping a Gen 7 Pokemon would be out of the blue for a past or upcoming Gen.

Just Pokemon fans. Also gen 4 was the latest gen at the time, so it would've been more like skipping Lucario for Pokemon Trainer, but we got both in the end.

 

[tveye]

The color of the skin and the gold belly are taken from the Rare design. Most everything else is based on the Paon one.

Compare the proportions, the small crown, the shorter shout and general shape of the face to this:

And also compare it to the sprite in Jungle Climber, which is pretty close to how the Smash design looks, I think:

It's a mix but it definitely favors the Paon design. It's more-or-less the Paon design with textures resembling the Rare design.

Fair enough, it definitely looks like he's the the colors of Rare, but the cute features of Paon. Pretty awesome way to incorporate both designs.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Yep! If popularity was the deciding factor for Pokemon, Rowlet or Mimikyu would've been the go to, easy. (Mimikyu got higher than Rowlet in a recent survey for kids, but I don't have it in hand since the translated post got deleted for whatever reason, so you just gotta take my word on that one.)

But Sakurai wouldn't had have known that at the time obviously, so whoever gets in (Incineroar likely) was probably just Sakurai's personal pick in the end like Greninja.

The only reason Incenroar's likely is because Verge said so,
And even the circumstances behind getting that information are incredibly shady.

 

[tveye]

Yep! If popularity was the deciding factor for Pokemon, Rowlet or Mimikyu would've been the go to, easy. (Mimikyu got higher than Rowlet in a recent survey for kids, but I don't have it in hand since the translated post got deleted for whatever reason, so you just gotta take my word on that one.)

But Sakurai wouldn't had have known that at the time obviously, so whoever gets in (Incineroar likely) was probably just Sakurai's personal pick in the end like Greninja.

I feel like with so many plot-important Pokemon for gen VII (wasn't Silvally meant to be the "Lucario" of Sun and Moon?) that there would be more options for him to go with. Golisopod is one of the main (anti)villain's most trusted Pokemon. There's also the Ultra Beasts which are pretty important. When it came to Gen 6, the only plot Pokemon I can think of (that wasn't a box legendary) is Floette.

 

[Spinosaurus]

The only reason Incenroar's likely is because Verge said so,
And even the circumstances behind getting that information are incredibly shady.

Yeah, I figured my saying that was obviously because of Verge. We're just gonna have to wait and see if he's actually right on that one, I have every reason to believe him personally though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, Incineroar is likely because he's also the favored anime Pokemon by GameFreak. There's literal concept art of him hanging around with Ash, something the other starters didn't have. This information, the concept art, was around the same time as Sakurai was working on the project plan.

Meanwhile Gen III didn't have anywhere near the same perfect timing. Gen IV is the one that fit within the window of having concept art and other things being focused on that made choosing a character easy. Incineroar's timing is similar to Greninja's or Lucario's, perfect for Smash. Coupled with him being a very hot choice for Pokemon as is, highly promoted, and Ash's main starter to begin with? This boosts his chances a lot.

Verge only helps, but he isn't the reason the character had a strong chance to begin with.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Just Pokemon fans.

But what if a sizable portion of Pokemon fans did not vote because they do not care for Smash Brothers?

Also gen 4 was the latest gen at the time, so it would've been more like skipping Lucario for Pokemon Trainer, but we got both in the end.

Except it does not excuse the fact that Gen 3 was skipped for a Pokemon character, the first time it happened and later happened to Gen 5. According to the upcoming Pokemon Gen, wouldn't a rep from Gen 8 be more likely than Gen 7?

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Huh, I came by from the Shantae support thread to see some good ol' Isaac and you are talking about the semantics of a Pokemon in Smash Ultimate? I'm in the boat of people who thinks that there will be no new Pokemon reps, mainly just on my gut feelings.
Aside from that, anything new in the Isaac boat?

 

[Spinosaurus]

But what if a sizable portion of Pokemon fans did not vote because they do not care for Smash Brothers?

I think it's less not caring for Smash and more not caring to vote in the ballot. I personally didn't vote, or at least, I don't remember doing so. :V

EDIT: Whoops, didn't mean to derail. Sorry about that, got ahead of myself.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I think it's less not caring for Smash and more not caring to vote in the ballot. I personally didn't vote, or at least, I don't remember doing so. :V

If you don't vote then the vote cannot be counted.

Well, that brings up a good question.

Should the Pokemon rep for Ultimate, if Ultimate is deciding newcomers by ballots, be determined by said Ballot results of Pokemon characters or by Pokemon Popularity polls?

 

[tveye]

Huh, I came by from the Shantae support thread to see some good ol' Isaac and you are talking about the semantics of a Pokemon in Smash Ultimate? I'm in the boat of people who thinks that there will be no new Pokemon reps, mainly just on my gut feelings.
Aside from that, anything new in the Isaac boat?

It's kind of silly, right? I just guess weird discussions pop up when there's nothing to talk about.

 

[Organization XIII]

Aside from that, anything new in the Isaac boat?

We're literally dying for some freaking news

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Huh, I came by from the Shantae support thread to see some good ol' Isaac and you are talking about the semantics of a Pokemon in Smash Ultimate? I'm in the boat of people who thinks that there will be no new Pokemon reps, mainly just on my gut feelings.
Aside from that, anything new in the Isaac boat?

Unfortunately, the Isaac support camp has no fresh news like the other support camps.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

We're literally dying for some freaking news

Spoiler: Out of Topic Schpiel

Funny you say that, the Shantae boards is in a little bit of a snafu situation, mainly by a guy who thinks that Verge is basically nothing short of God, a person who tweets towards WF too much, and someone who is basically like Nibbler from Bender's Big Score when the universe rips itself apart due to too many Benders. We're also awaiting more information which hopefully will be Shantae in Smash, but I digress but we'll wait until we get to that bridge together.

I don't know too much about Isaac, though I hope he gets his dues right here.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Huh, I came by from the Shantae support thread to see some good ol' Isaac and you are talking about the semantics of a Pokemon in Smash Ultimate? I'm in the boat of people who thinks that there will be no new Pokemon reps, mainly just on my gut feelings.
Aside from that, anything new in the Isaac boat?

Just kinda boring around here.

 

[N3ON]

If we had no longstanding precedent of a Pokemon newcomer deliberately from the latest gen, and the inclusion was much more impartial when it came to the source, I'd imagine there'd be a handful of other Pokemon candidates that would outclass any from the seventh gen.

Unfortunately, that isn't the world in which we live. I understand the Pokemon cycle, but I'd prefer the character be lifted from organic or perennial popularity enduring past the spotlight. Characters that have proven themselves to be favoured among the fanbase even after TPC is done shoving them in our faces hold more value to me than the latest in a rotating door of promotion.

 

[TappyBat]

we always get at least one pokemon playable skipping gens or no.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

we always get at least one pokemon playable skipping gens or no.

We also always get characters cut at one point or another.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

we always get at least one pokemon playable skipping gens or no.

Though I can see this trend as being an easily broken precedence in a way. You could easily say that we get a new FE rep since Melee, or something alongside those lines and that would be an arbitrary rule/precedence.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ballot is absolutely not a good indication of popular Pokemon, especially with how small the sample size is. (barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is.)

And you'd effectively have to skip a gen 7 Pokemon over it, which is not a smart idea whatsoever. Sceptile is popular, totally, but characters like Lycanroc, Rowlet and Incineroar are what's hot with the Pokemon audience right now.

I believe it’s a much better idea to wait at least until DLC, then you can have either a ballot (for the Smash fandom) or a popularity poll (for the Pokémon fandom) to know who organically became popular.

I think it’s only fair; they’re skipping representation for a lot of games released between 2015 and now (most notably ARMS and Xenoblade 2), so it makes sense that Pokemon should play by the same rules.

Japan was polled for gen 7, I should point out. Their favorite Pokemon was Rowlett. Their favorite final evolution was Primarina.

Then it should be Rowlet, Mimikyu, or Primarina in Smash, not whoever some executive in 2015 told Sakurai to put in.

 

[KingTorra]

Well, Incineroar is my favorite pokemon, and would enjoy the inclusion over any other.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Wait a minute....has the Isaac support thread officially agreed on what weapon Isaac should be using in Smash?
Edit: Has it been polled?

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Wait a minute....has the Isaac support thread officially agreed on what weapon Isaac should be using in Smash?
Edit: Has it been polled?

That's a good idea for a poll actually. Something fun we can do during the wait. Typically I have seen the suggestions of the Sol/Gaia Blade the most

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Isaac with an Axe would be really cool but I think in basically every single case Sakurai opts for the most iconic/vanilla/recognizable design possible for a character's first appearance, and for Isaac that's a sword.

Characters like Mario and Link and Zelda get updated designs almost every game but that's because they're famous regardless and they have a really rich history to draw from.

 

[Undella2]

Why do people still believe Verge is 100% right when even the Gematsu leak, for all it's credibility, was still littered with outdated/wrong info?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Isaac would get a sword, but tbh, I think one "option" could be switching weapons for different, specific attacks. I don't think its very likely, though.


I also don't think Isaac will get any specific weapon and just have pretty generic ones because its not the focus of his moveset.

 

[GhostStorm]

Never played Golden Sun here to support Isaac for the sake of Cloud fanboys, Isaac fanboys and Lloyd Irving fanboys chance to create Godlike match ups.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

If you ask me, Isaac would definitely bring a sword to Smash Bros - either a generic longsword, or one of the strongest swords in the series; Sol Blade or the Gaia Blade. Although I would be pleasantly surprised if Sakurai decided to subvert everyone's expectations and give him an axe instead of the sword, but I think everyone's kinda fixed on the idea of him using a sword.

 

[pholtos]

Isaac's weapon should be Kraden.

 

[Falgor]

There's a point I think nobody has made yet about the Pokémon Gen 7 popularity poll: It had a lot (likely a majority) of votes of female Pokémon players (and Incineroar is no exception, almost 3/4 of his votes came from girls/women).
One thing to consider is that the Pokémon fanbase in Japan is way more likely to have a much better M/F parity than the general (and worldwide) Smash Bros one where girls seem significantly more rare. The two circles of players probably hardly overlap.

Because of that, it's quite a giant stretch to use this poll as a proof of Incineroar's popularity in the global Smash community.

Regardless of my personal very negative opinion on the Pokémon, let that be clear. And without disrespect to his fans.

 

[ZelDan]

I would like to think getting Pichu, and the Pokemon trainer with both Squirtle and Ivysaur coming back would maybe balance out the need for a new pokemon rep.

As for which weapon Isaac would use. Probably a sword, ideally one of the cooler, stronger weapons found in late game.

 

[TappyBat]

I wanna hit people in the face with suns. Sol blade please!

 

[Mehdow]

I can't stop thinking in how cool Judgement would be in HD.

Wet dreams are made of this.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Hereby; the poll called:

What weapon should Isaac wield in SSBU if he is announced?

Vote here: https://linkto.run/p/C5YAJ7OQ

Results here: https://linkto.run/r/C5YAJ7OQ

*If you have any requests for weapons not found on the poll, please tell us.
*If you have any questions about weapons found on the poll, check the following links:

- Gaia Blade (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Gaia_Blade)
- Sol Blade (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Sol_Blade)
- Excalibur (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibur)
- Stellar Axe (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Stellar_Axe)
- Herculean Axe (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Herculean_Axe)
- Bloody Claws (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Bloody_Claw)

*If you have any more questions you have no answers to following the links, please feel free to ask.
*Poll closes on the 15th of this month. (10/2018)

 

[KMDP]

Hereby; the poll called:

What weapon should Isaac wield in SSBU if he is announced?

Vote here: https://linkto.run/p/C5YAJ7OQ

Results here: https://linkto.run/r/C5YAJ7OQ

*If you have any requests for weapons not found on the poll, please tell us.
*If you have any questions about weapons found on the poll, check the following links:

- Gaia Blade (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Gaia_Blade)
- Sol Blade (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Sol_Blade)
- Excalibur (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibur)
- Stellar Axe (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Stellar_Axe)
- Herculean Axe (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Herculean_Axe)
- Bloody Claws (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Bloody_Claw)

*If you have any more questions you have no answers to following the links, please feel free to ask.

*sees the map among the results*

The dot over Jersey, UK (where I live) is faded compared to the other ones... it's probably going to get dimmer as more people vote.