Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TappyBat]

To be fair, iirc, Incineroar is only considered safe because Verge said it might be him earlier on. Before that, no one was speculating him and he wasn't very popular.

so they're sheep.

 

[Nazyrus]

To be fair, skull kid popularity is recent because of the supposed hints people are willing to see in the direct. Only Isaac has a good and steady popularity since brawl. Talking about it, have you noticed we hear less and less about skull kid ? like a month ago people were saying he's a lock, and now ? I barely see anyone talking about him in the Smash bros sphere (except his fans logically on dedicated threads).

I mean... this seems like a huge leap. Skull Kid didnt even become a vocal choice on the forums until two months ago.
He is a great character, but let's not just make things up.

Skull kid has ALWAYS been super popular. Like I said, he was rapidly discarded because of sakurai deconfirming him immediately back then. The fact that now he is MIA and Sakurai has no word on him, proves that Skull kid's popularity can finally show up, and it has. Just because the fandom couldn't show up back then because they were immediately turned down, doesn't mean his popularity and demand were non existant. If you don't believe me just watch this.

The only thing about that is he dragged on Ridley's deconfirmation for 4. Which makes me worry.


Ridley is way too different case, he was highly doubted because of being too big and such, going against Sakurai's opinion of him being possible as playable. I don't think that case is near comparable to Isaac and Skull kid imo. Isaac and Skull kid being MIA has a reason behind them and I think almost everyone supporting those two can agree thanks to the hints and teasing we've gotten so far.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Skull kid has ALWAYS been super popular. Like I said, he was rapidly discarded because of sakurai deconfirming him immediately back then. The fact that now he is MIA and Sakurai has no word on him, proves that Skull kid's popularity can finally show up. Just because the fandom couldn't show up back then because they were immediately turned down, doesn't mean his popularity and demand were non existant. If you don't believe me just watch this.


Ridley is way too different case, he was highly doubted because of being too big and such, going against Sakurai's opinion of him being possible as playable. I don't think that case is near comparable to Isaac and Skull kid imo.

He didn't drag it out for Ridley in 4. He said there would be bosses on stages, then showed a Metroid stage with a large flying boss.

Ridley fans didn't take the hint and thought he must be playable.

 

[Silo777]

So with this evidence of potential Golden Sun content on phones, how would you guys feel about this possibility: A companion app to go along with a Golden Sun on the switch. In it, you can take care of the Djinn you’ve collected in the game (kind of similar to something like tamagotchi) and by doing so, they can level up and get special bonuses in the switch game. You can also quickly and efficiently check all the combinations of djinn leading to different classes of your party members.

 

[Nazyrus]

He didn't drag it out for Ridley in 4. He said there would be bosses on stages, then showed a Metroid stage with a large flying boss.

Ridley fans didn't take the hint and thought he must be playable.

That too, and I think that's meant for Q-Long since he is the one who said the dragged out in 4 thing. lol

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

That too, and I think that's meant for Q-Long since he is the one who said the dragged out in 4 thing. lol

Yeah, I just didn't want to scroll back and find his post, lol.

 

[Organization XIII]

He didn't drag it out for Ridley in 4. He said there would be bosses on stages, then showed a Metroid stage with a large flying boss.

Ridley fans didn't take the hint and thought he must be playable.

But that's ignoring the fact they didn't immediately show Ridley like they did with every other boss and that Toon Link was also a stage element and he was still playable. It's really easy for people to say that it was obvious but it wasn't because Sakurai didn't treat Ridley the same as he treated the other bosses and it gave people a false sense of hope.

 

[JaidynReiman]

But that's ignoring the fact they didn't immediately show Ridley like they did with every other boss and that Toon Link was also a stage element and he was still playable. It's really easy for people to say that it was obvious but it wasn't because Sakurai didn't treat Ridley the same as he treated the other bosses and it gave people a false sense of hope.

While I agree with this, it's not the same thing as Skull Kid or Isaac's situation. In that instance it was very clearly talking about Ridley. Nothing has been said or shown regarding Skull Kid or Isaac. So trying to compare this situation to Ridley completely falls apart.

 

[Organization XIII]

While I agree with this, it's not the same thing as Skull Kid or Isaac's situation. In that instance it was very clearly talking about Ridley. Nothing has been said or shown regarding Skull Kid or Isaac. So trying to compare this situation to Ridley completely falls apart.

That wasn't me. I just pointing out what was wrong with the person's assertion that Ridley fans didn't pick up on the hint he wasn't playable.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Have we shared this?

This guy Golden Sun-ified Ultimate's main theme, and it's sick.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/9i5fkh/i_have_goldensunified_the_super_smash_bros/

Direct link
https://instaud.io/2Imk

if he has the original midi file, i'd love to make this sound like a FF6 track

 

[JaidynReiman]

That wasn't me. I just pointing out what was wrong with the person's assertion that Ridley fans didn't pick up on the hint he wasn't playable.

I realized that after the fact.

 

[THE 6r]

Quiet day on the thread I see.

 

[Confirmation]

Quiet day on the thread I see.

Not much to talk about; leaks have gotten old / debunked and the trademark is proving difficult to translate / trace to the source

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Quiet day on the thread I see.

It usually slows down around this time I’ve noticed. We’ve all got other things to do I imagine(I’m on break currently).

 

[SonicLink125]

I personally feel like Sakurai has learned his lesson from 4 to not prolong certain character's "deconfirmation". As evident to characters like Ridley. If he knows how big Isaac is now, I expect Sakurai to reveal him in the next Smash Direct.

 

[Xithyl_kykorl]

Not much to talk about; leaks have gotten old / debunked and the trademark is proving difficult to translate / trace to the source

main reason it's difficult to translate is fuzzy kanji nobody can be 100% sure what it is.

 

[Confirmation]

For the little it's worth, it seems the origin of the Golden Sun application picture was www.japanesenintendo.com/post/178036911884

That's the earliest I've been able to find, at least. If someone is willing to tweet the guy we could potentially ask for a link to where he got it to help translation efforts. If not, oh well. Hopefully this helps out in some way.

 

[N3ON]

Skull kid has ALWAYS been super popular. Like I said, he was rapidly discarded because of sakurai deconfirming him immediately back then. The fact that now he is MIA and Sakurai has no word on him, proves that Skull kid's popularity can finally show up, and it has. Just because the fandom couldn't show up back then because they were immediately turned down, doesn't mean his popularity and demand were non existant. If you don't believe me just watch this.

No, he wasn't, this is revisionism. I was there, paying attention, like someone with nothing better to do. All a deconfirmation is going to do, early or not, is stunt popularity for the remainder of the cycle, it won't inhibit it from growing in the first place. The cycle never begins with the first ATs shown, it doesn't even begin with the first trailer. Characters such as Waluigi and Bomberman are a testament that characters deconfirmed right off the bat can still be highly popular beforehand. Meanwhile, Skull Kid had months and months until that PotD deconfirmation last time. He had time, believe me. Hell, there were two years between the game being announced and when we even got that first SSB4 trailer. So if the argument is Skull Kid can only get popular once the deconfirmations start flying, that's not a huge endorsement of his innate popularity, is it?

Moreover, your argument is such that "if Skull Kid only had time for his popularity to flourish, it would". Alright, well, prior to August, when loz first mentioned him, where was it? He had months, months when Waluigi and Ashley and Lyn and Mimikyu and Captain Toad and Takamaru and Bomberman were all gaining demand organically, months for the fandom to show up. But they didn't. Or maybe they did, and it proved there weren't that many of them. That's not indicative of organic popularity, that's indicative of popularity cultivated by expectation, due to a leak. Not to say people didn't like Skull Kid before, he was always liked, he always had some popularity, just not anywhere within the realm of being "super popular".

So really, timing is not the culprit; even if you want to completely disregard Smash 4, Skull Kid had months before this leak even showed up to prove what popularity unrestrained by a deconfirmation could achieve for a supposedly "super popular" character.

 

[MannCha]

Quiet day on the thread I see.

Might as well make my first post ever on this thread!
I'm a long time Isaac supporter and I've been lurking this thread since the Rathalos tweet. I've been supporting Isaac ever since 9 year old me played Golden Sun when it came out! I'm happy to see that much support for our golden boy!

if he has the original midi file, i'd love to make this sound like a FF6 track

I'm the one who made this!
I don't have a midi file, sorry. I've placed the notes myself in FL Studio. I can send you the project file if you want!

 

[Pwnapplez]

Might as well make my first post ever on this thread!
I'm a long time Isaac supporter and I've been lurking this thread since the Rathalos tweet. I've been supporting Isaac ever since 9 year old me played Golden Sun when it came out! I'm happy to see that much support for our golden boy!


I'm the one who made this!
I don't have a midi file, sorry. I've placed the notes myself in FL Studio. I can send you the project file if you want!

Welcome Welcome!
Glad to convert another guest!

 

[tveye]

No, he wasn't, this is revisionism. I was there, paying attention, like someone with nothing better to do. All a deconfirmation is going to do, early or not, is stunt popularity for the remainder of the cycle, it won't inhibit it from growing in the first place. The cycle never begins with the first ATs shown, it doesn't even begin with the first trailer. Characters such as Waluigi and Bomberman are a testament that characters deconfirmed right off the bat can still be highly popular beforehand. Meanwhile, Skull Kid had months and months until that PotD deconfirmation last time. He had time, believe me. Hell, there were two years between the game being announced and when we even got that first SSB4 trailer. So if the argument is Skull Kid can only get popular once the deconfirmations start flying, that's not a huge endorsement of his innate popularity, is it?

Moreover, your argument is such that "if Skull Kid only had time for his popularity to flourish, it would". Alright, well, prior to August, when loz first mentioned him, where was it? He had months, months when Waluigi and Ashley and Lyn and Mimikyu and Captain Toad and Takamaru and Bomberman were all gaining demand organically, months for the fandom to show up. But they didn't. Or maybe they did, and it proved there weren't that many of them. That's not indicative of organic popularity, that's indicative of popularity cultivated by expectation, due to a leak. Not to say people didn't like Skull Kid before, he was always liked, he always had some popularity, just not anywhere within the realm of being "super popular".

So really, timing is not the culprit; even if you want to completely disregard Smash 4, Skull Kid had months before this leak even showed up to prove what popularity unrestrained by a deconfirmation could achieve for a supposedly "super popular" character.

To add to this, a lot of people claim that “Skull Kid probably didn’t receive a lot of votes for DLC because he was already an assist trophy”, well guess who else was an assist trophy? Dark Samus, but we know Dark Samus got a lot of votes since Sakurai specifically mentioned how Chrom and her were highly requested.

Skull Kid probably didn’t receive a lot of votes because not a lot of people were clamoring for him to be playable in Smash at the time. His fan base only began to gain traction after someone pointed out that Sakurai’s chairs were colored like Tatl and Tail. Even then, there were more people saying that the chairs were a clue for Waluigi! Though he doesn’t have any yellow on him so that was just ridiculous.

Anyways, I would like to eventually see Skull Kid playable in Smash, but it’s very, VERY likely that he did not place high on the ballot at all.

 

[pupNapoleon]

To add to this, a lot of people claim that “Skull Kid probably didn’t receive a lot of votes for DLC because he was already an assist trophy”, well guess who else was an assist trophy? Dark Samus, but we know Dark Samus got a lot of votes since Sakurai specifically mentioned how Chrom and her were highly requested.

Also, ya know... Isaac... I hope...*gulp*

 

[skydogc]

Hey Isaac bros, I always liked Isaac and thought he was a cool character. I'm here from the Geno thread to wish y'all luck with Isaac. I hope he makes it in too.

 

[Mike Cometa]

To add to this, a lot of people claim that “Skull Kid probably didn’t receive a lot of votes for DLC because he was already an assist trophy”, well guess who else was an assist trophy? Dark Samus, but we know Dark Samus got a lot of votes since Sakurai specifically mentioned how Chrom and her were highly requested..

I don´t think Dark Samus is a good example at all, i see her being in the game more of a form of advertising for Metroid Prime 4 than something ballot related

 

[Nazyrus]

To add to this, a lot of people claim that “Skull Kid probably didn’t receive a lot of votes for DLC because he was already an assist trophy”, well guess who else was an assist trophy? Dark Samus, but we know Dark Samus got a lot of votes since Sakurai specifically mentioned how Chrom and her were highly requested.

Skull Kid probably didn’t receive a lot of votes because not a lot of people were clamoring for him to be playable in Smash at the time. His fan base only began to gain traction after someone pointed out that Sakurai’s chairs were colored like Tatl and Tail. Even then, there were more people saying that the chairs were a clue for Waluigi! Though he doesn’t have any yellow on him so that was just ridiculous.

Anyways, I would like to eventually see Skull Kid playable in Smash, but it’s very, VERY likely that he did not place high on the ballot at all.

Regardless of how the character placed in the ballot, sakurai is more than well aware of his popularity even within the zelda community. He is not picking the top 10 of the ballot necessarily, the ballot is just a guide for him to know what fans have wanted. Who knows what range of ranking in the ballot he is even starting at, it could be wide. People simply can't deny the popularity of a character regardless of the ballot ranking spot. Sakurai doesn't just use one thing or method for picking his newcomers, I think everyone should know that by now.

 

[THE 6r]

I don´t think Dark Samus is a good example at all, i see her being in the game more of a form of advertising for Metroid Prime 4 than something ballot related

I'm not entirely sure. Sakurai did specifically mention in his Famitsu column after the Smash Direct the Dark Samus is in because she was so highly requested by Western Gamers. I don't this could compare to other blatant advertising characters in Smash Bros (I'm looking at you Roy and Corrin).

 

[Organization XIII]

I don´t think Dark Samus is a good example at all, i see her being in the game more of a form of advertising for Metroid Prime 4 than something ballot related

Wouldn't Sylux be in Smash instead since you know Dark Samus is a little busy dealing with the whole death thing in Prime 4

 

[Nazyrus]

How detailed do you guys expect Isaac to be in terms of model? Considering his clothing and appearance is kinda simple and such, do you want them to stay close to that or more heavily detailed? We know the textures are gonna be beautiful of course.

 

[THE 6r]

How detailed do you guys expect to Isaac to be in terms of model? Considering his clothing and appearance is kinda simple and such, do you want them to stay close to that or more heavily detailed? We know the textures are gonna be beautiful of course.

Given the trend of Sakurai to update and modernize character designs (i.e. Roy, Simon, Richter, K. Rool), I think Isaac will get a similar treatment where his design is a mix of his classic design from GS1+2, his adult design from DD, and some modern touches from Sakurai.

 

[TappyBat]

i want his scarf to be flowy af. that's all.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I realized that after the fact.

How detailed do you guys expect Isaac to be in terms of model? Considering his clothing and appearance is kinda simple and such, do you want them to stay close to that or more heavily detailed? We know the textures are gonna be beautiful of course.

I say let Sakurai give him a little bit of a revamp like he did with pit. Take notes from the original duology and dark Dawn and make something unique.

 

[THE 6r]

I say let Sakurai give him a little bit of a revamp like he did with pit. Take notes from the original duology and dark Dawn and make something unique.

Oh right! Pit, probably the best example of the franchise and story we want to emulate here.I completely forgot about him when I was making my previous post.

 

[Kalaam]

i want his scarf to be flowy af. that's all.

And his coat. Give us something like Geralt's hair that is always blowed by the wind without anyone knowing why.
We don't care why, it looks awesome.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Besides the Golden Sun Trademark I have a question for you all. (Don't worry I will try to go back to the trademark thing, but there is not that much left to discuss).

If a new Golden Sun game is in the works, what direction should the franchise go while moving forward?

Nintendo wants more franchise success as we have seen so much DLC for the Fire Emblem franchise. Especially with the success of Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Splatoon and Fire Emblem itself.

There had to be something that drew Golden Sun to be a hit when it debuted and still is held fondly (as we are the evidence of it) by many fans today.

Now, I am not saying this to be a detractor, but if someone asked you what sets Golden Sun apart from the many different RPG series that exist today what would tell them? There had to be something that sets Golden Sun apart because something had to be there to draw us in.

Add to that what Nintendo should focus on when Golden Sun is being remade and being revived.

 

[Kalaam]

I'd say the unique mechanics of every character being a mage, the puzzles based on magic and the class-system. They could totally change the way combat works and still have it be a golden sun. Make it a tactical ala FF tactics, it could work. Though we'd lost world/dungeon exploration, but puzzles could be part of a battle, and lead to interresting strategies.
You can make it real time ala xenoblade it would also work.
Or you stay very classic but I don't think it'd be good. All successful jrpg of the past few years renewed the battle system of this genra (especially Octopath and Bravely with their boost system etc, Golden Sun would need a way to do that, without copying it.)

(or give us a freakin mmo with modular classes based on your djinns)

 

[Confirmation]

Besides the Golden Sun Trademark I have a question for you all. (Don't worry I will try to go back to the trademark thing, but there is not that much left to discuss).

If a new Golden Sun game is in the works, what direction should the franchise go while moving forward?

Nintendo wants more franchise success as we have seen so much DLC for the Fire Emblem franchise. Especially with the success of Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Splatoon and Fire Emblem itself.

There had to be something that drew Golden Sun to be a hit when it debuted and still is held fondly (as we are the evidence of it) by many fans today.

Now, I am not saying this to be a detractor, but if someone asked you what sets Golden Sun apart from the many different RPG series that exist today what would tell them? There had to be something that sets Golden Sun apart because something had to be there to draw us in.

Add to that what Nintendo should focus on when Golden Sun is being remade and being revived.

One thing I always felt most RPGs didn't have back then was a puzzle aspect. You might use a game mechanic once or twice, but then you'd discard it and move on. You gain the heavy hammer! Use it to open this Temple and beat this boss and marvel at how it's never used again.

Golden Sun was ridiculously good with making most psynergy useful. Move never got outdated, Cyclone and Whirlwind constantly found use as well. Douse and Frost were also commonly used, and growth was just enough to make it unforgettable. It so did a good job with why you're unique in the world, which is one thing most RPGs struggled with. Psynergy was always a reminder that you could do stuff others couldn't, whether it be getting further I places looters already picked clean in order to get the true treasure or just solving some random problem with mind reading. Man, don't get me started on how good mind reading was.

Another thing was the sheer customizability. The item classes, different Djinn setups, etc. always felt cool. It was always fun to turn the protagonist into the balanced healer instead of the super!mega!damage! warrior most RPGs made, and making Ivan into a decent physical attacker was cool. Also helped the replayability, since base classes were way different than most others.

Djinn were fun because they both gave new psynergy and were a permanent boost. As a collectible they were way more fun than an E-Tank, etc. Also gave the games an incentive to explore outside of gear upgrades.

In short it was fun, yes more

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'd say the unique mechanics of every character being a mage, the puzzles based on magic and the class-system. They could totally change the way combat works and still have it be a golden sun. Make it a tactical ala FF tactics, it could work. Though we'd lost world/dungeon exploration, but puzzles could be part of a battle, and lead to interresting strategies.

I did like exploring the environments in Dark Dawn as they flow so organically by their structure.

You can make it real time ala xenoblade it would also work.
Or you stay very classic but I don't think it'd be good. All successful jrpg of the past few years renewed the battle system of this genra (especially Octopath and Bravely with their boost system etc, Golden Sun would need a way to do that, without copying it.)

The problem with taking the Xenoblade route might be because it makes them too similar and potentially get rid of what made Golden Sun appealing in the first place. Series that did not need to evolve (Dragon Quest) are still going strong today. I believe that Golden Sun can be Nintendo's Dragon Quest.

(or give us a freakin mmo with modular classes based on your djinns)

I am not sure a MMO Golden Sun would appeal to the masses.

Wait. Tell me if this sounds good:

• Keep Golden Sun as the traditional RPG we grew up with.
• Keep Dark Dawn's weapon leveling system.
• Keep the Overworld puzzles and Psynergy use.
• Keep the Djinn and allow your party to still mix and match Djinn to change party members' attributes.
• Increase the level cap and length of the story where it reaches the 80s by the time the final chapter is approached.
• Make the RPG combat more strategic and difficult to encourage careful planning.
• Allow party members to chain different Psynergy attacks together to perform powerful combo attacks (make it like Chrono Trigger).
• Have the art style cel shaded like Wind Waker and Tales of series.

Does this sound good?

 

[KoopaSaki]

Hey guys I hear rumors of another smash direct arriving in October. Does anyone think it's inevitable we get one that month?

 

[Kalaam]

It does sounds good, then we have to see how the combat is reworked.
First: get rid of One-Shot moves from bosses. This. is. ****.
For no reason a boss can just OS a character even if they survived the actual damages. It's unfair, it's not something you can properly work on by strategy it's pure, unbalanced luck. I'm fine with the death countdown, but attacks that have 30% of killing a character on hit are a no go.

Then make the battle more fluid and had more synergies, octopath did it with the weaknesses and break system for example.

tbh for the tactical thing i'd love it in a way like divinity original sin 2.
You could have tactical battle and still world exploration too, just generate the battle map randomly (more or less) like in FF tactics for random/side quests and contracts.
Or divinity, or dofus/wakfu. The battle in overworld are delimited by where the battle begins. make a transition to the camelot angle when attack is going one (like fire emblem or Shining Force did) but don't when it's area spells maybe, or differently. Same angle but on the map, so you see the chibis with the camelot angle with rain of fire mid distance.

 

[DogManStar]

Cel shaded GS is something I didn’t even know I wanted until now. Anyone got that Wind Waker Isaac and Felix?