Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[tveye]

Regarding the article, Sakurai does put a big emphasis on the "100 stages," so that makes me a little bit worried about the chance of getting a Golden Sun stage. What are your guys' thoughts on this?

He says that their goal was 100 stages, I can also imagine them going beyond that in a future showcase. Though, let's not forget that there wasn't a Fire Emblem stage in Melee. Captain Falcon and Ness were also missing stages in 64.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Regarding the article, Sakurai does put a big emphasis on the "100 stages," so that makes me a little bit worried about the chance of getting a Golden Sun stage. What are your guys' thoughts on this?

I'm not too concerned about this. He's not going to talk about 106 stages if 100 have been revealed. I think it's possible (and likely) that they had a plan for having 100 stages revealed at this point so they could talk about it as something groundbreaking. It's not like any of what he's saying changes drastically with another 5-6 stages.

If anything this makes me feel even more confident that the remaining slots may go to new franchises. (or towards dlc stages, that's also a possibility)

I think trying to figure this stuff out based on what Sakurai says is kind of a fools game though. He knows what he's saying and he'll absolutely keep things relating to new characters close to his chest. (and I think that goes for surprises in general)

 

[DogManStar]

The explicit confirmation that Sakurai looked to the ballot for newcomers gives me hope again. I think we might actually manage to make it this time.

 

[alguidrag]

The stages will be unlockable like the characters right?

 

[?!?!?!]

The stages will be unlockable like the characters right?

I'm pretty sure they're all available immediately, which kinda sucks imo I always enjoyed unlocking the stages

 

[Organization XIII]

I'm pretty sure they're all available immediately, which kinda sucks imo I always enjoyed unlocking the stages

At least we will have plenty of characters to unlock

 

[THE 6r]

At least we will have plenty of characters to unlock

Yeah, unlocking 60-70-ish characters, a ton of trophies, and (prosumably) 900 tracks is going to take a while.

 

[N3ON]

Between who was being included on the roster plus who was showing up as new ATs, it seemed incredibly likely the ballot was playing heavy influence on the game this time around, but it's always nice to get a solid confirmation to back it up.

Certainly a feather in Isaac's cap.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm not too concerned about this. He's not going to talk about 106 stages if 100 have been revealed. I think it's possible (and likely) that they had a plan for having 100 stages revealed at this point so they could talk about it as something groundbreaking. It's not like any of what he's saying changes drastically with another 5-6 stages.

If anything this makes me feel even more confident that the remaining slots may go to new franchises. (or towards dlc stages, that's also a possibility)

I think trying to figure this stuff out based on what Sakurai says is kind of a fools game though. He knows what he's saying and he'll absolutely keep things relating to new characters close to his chest. (and I think that goes for surprises in general)

I know it's not a great basis for feeling the way I do, but one of the reasons I feel so confident about there being more stages is because of Vergeben. As far as I know, he still stands by what he said about Minecraft content being in the game.....and there is absolutely 100% no way that Sakurai would reach out to Microsoft, opening a dialogue with them and then not get a character. (whether that's Banjo & Kazooie, Steve, Master Chief etc)

and if they got a character, they'd get a stage. (even more true for a third party)

 

[Lonodel]

you know this is only the second time the stages have been pre arranged in a square like that, the only other time being smash 64, and since this smash is an homage to what smash is I think it would make sense to fill in those remaining six slots, almost every Smash stage select looks symetrical so I trust sakurai to leave us with something that looks good.

 

[Dendros]

Go Isaac go!! I hope for the golden sun title theme to be in the game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Between who was being included on the roster plus who was showing up as new ATs, it seemed incredibly likely the ballot was playing heavy influence on the game this time around, but it's always nice to get a solid confirmation to back it up.

Certainly a feather in Isaac's cap.

It's pretty much a feather on most of us fanatics' caps - I personally believe we'll be getting a great ensemble of fan-favorites joining in this fray and please ton of people with it. In short, we'll be definitely seeing Ultimate be heralded having the best roster in the whole franchise.

Some still stay exceptions though (Captain Toad, Waluigi, Ashley), but I hope it's not too skin-deep on other characters than ones we just saw so far, including Isaac.

 

[N3ON]

It's pretty much a feather on most of us fanatics' caps - I personally believe we'll be getting a great ensemble of fan-favorites joining in this fray and please ton of people with it. In short, we'll be definitely seeing Ultimate be heralded having the best roster in the whole franchise.

Some still stay exceptions though (Captain Toad, Waluigi, Ashley), but I hope it's not too skin-deep on other characters than ones we just saw so far, including Isaac.

At this point my main concern is the limited number of newcomers to be added. If we were to receive the typical amount of original newcomers (which is roughly double what we're anticipating) I'd be even more gung-ho about Isaac's odds.

As it stands now things keep looking up, and that's great, but this time around it'll never stop being an uphill battle for Isaac. Fortunately Isaac fans did what they do best and really put in the work during the crucial time of the ballot, which now is coming to light.

 

[StormC]

To me it seems like Isaac isn't really seen as one of the 'big dogs' on par with Ridley and K. Rool in some fans eyes and you'll see people doubt how popular Isaac is by citing how he didn't have a Mii costume or appearance at all in 4, even as a trophy. Sakurai has also talked about the former two, and even a character like Geno, but he's never talked about Isaac. He also has to deal with that stigma of anime swordsman compared to the likes of Simon and K. Rool, Simon of who people were hyped about and welcoming towards when the leak music slipped.

Someone mentioned this before but Isaac being in Smash, it's something you got to see to believe with your own eyes. There are people in this thread who doubt Isaac being playable even with the few hints we have, Geno is considered more of a shoo in than Isaac in the smash community, sometimes it feels like it's the other way around and Geno is the first party while Isaac is third party. But I say If Isaac can go from an assist trophy to Brawl, to no appearance in 4, to finally being playable in Ultimate, that'll feel like the ultimate fanservice to me as this character from this dead franchise people like to throw around was able to be brought back by the power of fans. I hope we can pull a K. Rool too. Isaac's been my most desired for a long time, and it's to a point I'm pretty sure I'll cry if I see his trailer, it'll feel so surreal.

Sakurai has never actually mentioned K. Rool's name until very recently, where he tweeted the Snake/K. Rool gameplay. For all of his interviews regarding Smash, K. Rool has never once come up. Some of us weren't sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

At this point my main concern is the limited number of newcomers to be added. If we were to receive the typical amount of original newcomers (which is roughly double what we're anticipating) I'd be even more gung-ho about Isaac's odds.

As it stands now things keep looking up, and that's great, but this time around it'll never stop being an uphill battle for Isaac. Fortunately Isaac fans did what they do best and really put in the work during the crucial time of the ballot, which now is coming to light.

Good point - probably might mean that the picks done this time are also chosen carefully enough to please a the big passionate fanbases out there. And I think since Isaac's at least not been shown to be on the chipping block regarding ones that has them but still were deconfirmed, we've been pretty fortunate to come this far on this point.

Though that might be due how we're having that special trait of "MiA in Sm4sh", so it might be underlying boon or bane later.

 

[Yellowlord]

Hearing the news about how K. Rool was chosen from the ballot and all the newcomers being chosen this game from the ballot is honestly awesome: it makes me feel far more confident in Isaac's chances since I think next to K. Rool, he was one of the most highly requested newcomers for the ballot.

As always though, let's keep on supporting him as we have!

 

[Pwnapplez]

To play the devil's advocate Isaac did score low in the Japan exit polls.
Now we all know that the data collected is much smaller than the number of votes for Isaac

From this (wow Isaac did good on GameFAQs, surprise he even made it on the top 10) Isaac did well besides on Source Gaming were he was at the bottom.

From a second Reddit poll

Isaac came in second.

Now the biggest aid for Isaac is the google doc with all the data
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

In Japan Isaac got spot 19
Everywhere else he was in the top 10s


I really hope that this boost Isaac chances. However him doing poorly in Japan could mean bad news.

Just playing the devil's advocate like I said.

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai has never actually mentioned K. Rool's name until very recently, where he tweeted the Snake/K. Rool gameplay. For all of his interviews regarding Smash, K. Rool has never once come up. Some of us weren't sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

Well he wouldn't, would he? If the DK leaker is to be believed, and he seems credible, Sakurai was oblivious to the demand of K. Rool pre-ballot. And if he said anything post-ballot, that would've been a tinder to the forest of kindling that is the Smash fanbase, lol.

Similar kinda thing could be going on with Isaac for all we know.

Good point - probably might mean that the picks done this time are also chosen carefully enough to please a the big passionate fanbases out there. And I think since Isaac's at least not been shown to be on the chipping block regarding ones that has them but still were deconfirmed, we've been pretty fortunate to come this far on this point.

Though that might be due how we're having that special trait of "MiA in Sm4sh", so it might be underlying boon or bane later.

It wouldn't be Smash speculation if the Isaac fans didn't get dragged through the weeds until the very end when we get an (often unsatisfying) answer.

I'm happy the method of inclusion is being shaken up from the Smash 4 style of "who's done something recently?". Some people seem to be having a hard time of letting that mentality go though, hence some of the dissent against... well... K. Rool, Isaac and Geno. Funny because that whole recency bent only got kicked up with Smash 4. Anyone from the Brawl era can tell you there was much much less of "x just got a game, x must be getting in".

To play the devil's advocate Isaac did score low in the Japan exit polls.
Now we all know that the data collected is much smaller than the number of votes for Isaac

View attachment 159154

From this (wow Isaac did good on GameFAQs, surprise he even made it on the top 10) Isaac did well besides on Source Gaming were he was at the bottom.View attachment 159157

From a second Reddit poll
View attachment 159156

Isaac came in second.

Now the biggest aid for Isaac is the google doc with all the data
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

In Japan Isaac got spot 19
Everywhere else he was in the top 10s


I really hope that this boost Isaac chances. However him doing poorly in Japan could mean bad news.

Just playing the devil's advocate like I said.

Fwiw that top image you posted is recent polls, not ballot-era.

 

[Lonodel]

Fwiw that top image you posted is recent polls, not ballot-era.

Man I'm so sick of seeing Waluigi everywhere it really is getting old.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Isaac has got to be in. I say his chances just flew up even higher.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Well he wouldn't, would he? If the DK leaker is to be believed, and he seems credible, Sakurai was oblivious to the demand of K. Rool pre-ballot. And if he said anything post-ballot, that would've been a tinder to the forest of kindling that is the Smash fanbase, lol.

Similar kinda thing could be going on with Isaac for all we know.


It wouldn't be Smash speculation if the Isaac fans didn't get dragged through the weeds until the very end when we get an (often unsatisfying) answer.

I'm happy the method of inclusion is being shaken up from the Smash 4 style of "who's done something recently?". Some people seem to be having a hard time of letting that mentality go though, hence some of the dissent against... well... K. Rool, Isaac and Geno. Funny because that whole recency bent only got kicked up with Smash 4. Anyone from the Brawl era can tell you there was much much less of "x just got a game, x must be getting in".


Fwiw that top image you posted is recent polls, not ballot-era.

Oh the gamefaqs one?

My mistake

 

[N3ON]

Man I'm so sick of seeing Waluigi everywhere it really is getting old.

Just wait until things reset and Waluigi has a chance again. With characters like Ridley and K. Rool out of the way, it'll be an epidemic of WAA.

 

[SirCamp]

Confirmation of the ballot being influential? Not surprising, and yet also amazing for my top picks. All three place quite highly. Hopefully I can contain my hype just a bit longer...

Also at this point I actually somewhat expect Gardevoir. Not because of the leak, but if we go off of the ballot I really really would not be surprised if she placed the highest (possibly along with Sceptile) of any Pokemon. And Gardevoir's popularity is pretty consistent compared to Sceptile's surge aroudn that time I think. Could be interesting.

But back on topic, my confidence in Isaac being in just went up once again. At this point I would venture that he has upwards of a 65% chance of being in. I refuse to go too high, but I think his chances are better than not.

 

[alguidrag]

To be fair... Waluigi is made by camelot too, so if Isaac get his chance now its a good omen to Waluigi in smash 6

 

[N3ON]

Oh the gamefaqs one?

My mistake

Yeah, the one with the five columns from the different sites. You can tell it's not ballot era thanks to Rex & Pyra and Gen VII Pokemon. Plus inclusions like Crash, Simon, and Marx would not have been present on any top 10s back then.

It dates to some time since the Inkling teaser (since Inkling is on none of them), but you could probably tell exactly when by following those links.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Confirmation of the ballot being influential? Not surprising, and yet also amazing for my top picks. All three place quite highly. Hopefully I can contain my hype just a bit longer...

Also at this point I actually somewhat expect Gardevoir. Not because of the leak, but if we go off of the ballot I really really would not be surprised if she placed the highest (possibly along with Sceptile) of any Pokemon. And Gardevoir's popularity is pretty consistent compared to Sceptile's surge aroudn that time I think. Could be interesting.

But back on topic, my confidence in Isaac being in just went up once again. At this point I would venture that he has upwards of a 65% chance of being in. I refuse to go too high, but I think his chances are better than not.

Yeah I am in the same boat as you. I was thinking 45% but Ill go to 55%

I just hope Ridley and K Rule are not the only ones he picked for the ballot.

 

[Organization XIII]

In Japan Isaac got spot 19
Everywhere else he was in the top 10s


I really hope that this boost Isaac chances. However him doing poorly in Japan could mean bad news.

Just playing the devil's advocate like I said.

Guys we have to stop pretending top 20 in Japan is bad that's still insanely good. In fact, the person who put together the list even lists the top 50 and tried to keep track of 200 other characters on top of those listed. I wouldn't say 19th out of 250 is anything to scoff at. And that's only the characters the person attempted to keep track off there is most likely even more so yeah Isaac did fantastic everywhere.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Guys we have to stop pretending top 20 in Japan is bad that's still insanely good. In fact, the person who put together the list even lists the top 50 and tried to keep track of 200 other characters on top of those listed. I wouldn't say 19th out of 250 is anything to scoff at. And that's only the characters the person attempted to keep track off there is most likely even more so yeah Isaac did fantastic everywhere.

Like I said I was just playing the devil's advocate. Being 19 in Japan is huge. I am just saying that is the only blemish on Isaac chances. That and well Sakurai can just give him back to us as an AT.



Regardless, till Isaac is confirmed or deconfirmed

This will be all of us

 

[JaidynReiman]

Guys we have to stop pretending top 20 in Japan is bad that's still insanely good. In fact, the person who put together the list even lists the top 50 and tried to keep track of 200 other characters on top of those listed. I wouldn't say 19th out of 250 is anything to scoff at. And that's only the characters the person attempted to keep track off there is most likely even more so yeah Isaac did fantastic everywhere.

Actually he was keeping track of what Japanese fans were asking for, not specific characters. He went through about 1000 Japanese fans or so and looked over what they were asking for.

 

[Organization XIII]

Like I said I was just playing the devil's advocate. Being 19 in Japan is huge. I am just saying that is the only blemish on Isaac chances. That and well Sakurai can just give him back to us as an AT.

I'd like to think that if Isaac was brought back as AT due to the ballot then he would have been shown off during the direct like Shovel Knight or Gray Fox but then Ashley wasn't even mentioned by name when she was deconfirmed so I'm not too sure about that line of reasoning.

 

[Pwnapplez]

I'd like to think that if Isaac was brought back as AT due to the ballot then he would have been shown off during the direct like Shovel Knight or Gray Fox but then Ashley wasn't even mentioned by name when she was deconfirmed so I'm not too sure about that line of reasoning.

Isaac outperformed Chrom and Dark Samus.

I am just afraid that Sakurai just sees him as an old AT.

Only time will tell

 

[Nazyrus]

I'm happy the method of inclusion is being shaken up from the Smash 4 style of "who's done something recently?". Some people seem to be having a hard time of letting that mentality go though, hence some of the dissent against... well... K. Rool, Isaac and Geno.

This.
I can't stop getting headaches everytime I see someone still have the mindset of relevancy being the reason of how characters are chosen… King K Rool literally should've debunked that already. Cloud, Ridley and King K Rool have been so influential to how Smash gets their characters chosen now, people should have a more open mind.

 

[Lonodel]

Isaac outperformed Chrom and Dark Samus.

I am just afraid that Sakurai just sees him as an old AT.

Only time will tell

I wouldn't be part of the ballot was information on WHY they should be the next fighter that little paragraph we all attached our votes should show that he deserves more than an AT

 

[Pwnapplez]

The newest argument against Isaac now is
"103 STAGES ONLY THAT IS WHAT IS SAID ONLY CHARACTERS WITH PREEXISITING STAGES WILL GET IN"


Which boggles my mind because Duck Hunt got in without a stage.

I think Isaac if he is a fighter will break gamefaqs in half

 

[TempestSurge]

Someone like Chrom being teased in a final smash in 4 and getting a bunch of requests to be made playable is one thing, especially for a character who had the popularity to pull that off already. But I'd say Sakurai would be pretty impressed for Isaac to make grounds at all for a character who had no appearance since Brawl and a game franchise that hasn't had another title release in years.

If his reception to K. Rool is anything to go by, I'm sure Isaac is in a similar boat of not truly being aware of how popular he really was. Though having Isaac make such a feat to make his grand return as an assist trophy feels really anti climatic.

 

[Saer2k]

The newest argument against Isaac now is
"103 STAGES ONLY THAT IS WHAT IS SAID ONLY CHARACTERS WITH PREEXISITING STAGES WILL GET IN"


Which boggles my mind because Duck Hunt got in without a stage.

I think Isaac if he is a fighter will break gamefaqs in half

I mean Duck Hunt does have a stage, but I agree; there's no way that will be all
the stages that they will show us. Eventually if the newcomer is from a new series or
is a third party character.

 

[N3ON]

This.
I can't stop getting headaches everytime I see someone still have the mindset of relevancy being the reason of how characters chosen… King K Rool literally should've debunked that already. Cloud, Ridley and King K Rool have been so influential to how Smash gets their characters chosen now, people should have a more open mind.

Every game has expanded the roster through a different angle, and the major fallacy of the Smash fanbase is trying to make a pattern out of them. I suppose Melee and Brawl were similar insofar as still rounding out the major omissions from top series, as well as just including series of note.

Then people thought that'd carry over to Smash 4 and so going into it people were expecting K. Rool and Isaac and Krystal and what have you. Eventually people caught on that timeliness had mostly taken the wheel and so expectations shifted to "x got a game, x will get in".

That mentality was born out of Smash 4, not earlier. Let me stress that. It's yet another example of revisionism at play. So once again people are left picking up the pieces since this game ostensibly sidelines recency in favour of popularity.

The Smash fanbase loves rules, it makes so many of them that mean nothing. I think the main one is that the driving force behind what shapes the rosters stays the same from game to game. The goalposts do move, and the further out we get, the more clear that becomes.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Guys we have to stop pretending top 20 in Japan is bad that's still insanely good. In fact, the person who put together the list even lists the top 50 and tried to keep track of 200 other characters on top of those listed. I wouldn't say 19th out of 250 is anything to scoff at. And that's only the characters the person attempted to keep track off there is most likely even more so yeah Isaac did fantastic everywhere.

I think more worrying than Isaac getting top 20 in Japan is that the sample size for the Japanese poll was so small. We don't have any real indication of his popularity in Japan.

I'm not sure what to think about Isaacs chances right now, is it weird that I suddenly feel pessimistic? Even though everyone else seems to be getting more optimistic?

I know I said it didn't bother me, but the stage issue does kind of bother me. I still think we're getting a few more stages, since I can't imagine Pokemon Sun & Moon not getting a stage but it's still making me feel uneasy.

 

[Nazyrus]

I think more worrying than Isaac getting top 20 in Japan is that the sample size for the Japanese poll was so small. We don't have any real indication of his popularity in Japan.

I'm not sure what to think about Isaacs chances right now, is it weird that I suddenly feel pessimistic? Even though everyone else seems to be getting more optimistic?

I know I said it didn't bother me, but the stage issue does kind of bother me. I still think we're getting a few more stages, since I can't imagine Pokemon Sun & Moon not getting a stage but it's still making me feel uneasy.

It's really hard for me to get my hopes down after Sakurai teasing that camelot style picture… and the stages thing really doesn't worry me that much, as people mentioned some characters not necessarily getting a stage.

 

[Pwnapplez]

It's really hard for me to get my hopes down after Sakurai teasing that camelot style picture… and the stages thing really doesn't worry me that much, as people mentioned some characters not necessarily getting a stage.

Isaac could just use the fire emblem colosseum stage just like how FE usedd Hyrule Temple as their stage in Melee

I think more worrying than Isaac getting top 20 in Japan is that the sample size for the Japanese poll was so small. We don't have any real indication of his popularity in Japan.

I'm not sure what to think about Isaacs chances right now, is it weird that I suddenly feel pessimistic? Even though everyone else seems to be getting more optimistic?

I know I said it didn't bother me, but the stage issue does kind of bother me. I still think we're getting a few more stages, since I can't imagine Pokemon Sun & Moon not getting a stage but it's still making me feel uneasy.

Nah I feel you, I do feel a bit pessimistic also. Things are all over the place. Till the next direct we will have a better idea of were Isaac would be