Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[XenoWarriorX]

I'm surprised Custom Robo is super high in votes so far.

At least Globally.

 

[Bassoonist]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...firmed_characters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/

I am being optimistic the demand is there!

Being 9th place in Japan does concern me, though. Bandanna Waddle Dee (a character that is likely to catch Sakurai's bias), Magalor (another Kirby character?), Paper Mario, and Geno are ranked a lot higher in Japan. Lets just hope that Sakurai cares about it from a global standpoint and not just JP.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Being 9th place in Japan does concern me, though. Bandanna Waddle Dee (a character that is likely to catch Sakurai's bias), Magalor (another Kirby character?), Paper Mario, and Geno are ranked a lot higher in Japan. Lets just hope that Sakurai cares about it from a global standpoint and not just JP.

Me too, It is a bit concerning, but I am going to stay positive.

I have a feeling Geno is going to make it in. I think Square will allow it.

For Isaac, he has a huge demand atm. Plus, that demand has been there for a while

 

[NessAtc.]

Isaac's popularity everywhere else is enough to overpower 9th overall in Japan to attain 1st.

Let's just let that sink in.

 

[Bassoonist]

Me too, It is a bit concerning, but I am going to stay positive.

I have a feeling Geno is going to make it in. I think Square will allow it.

For Isaac, he has a huge demand atm. Plus, that demand has been there for a while

Yeah, it's just there's a heck of a lot more competition here than we've been led to believe in this topic. It looks like Isaac is only number one because of US, going by that image.

Of course, none of this data is 100% accurate to the real results of the Ballot. And I'm scared that Sakurai will move on and say "Well, Isaac is popular in the US, but I need to appease JP, as well, so *skips over Isaac* Bandanna Lee!"

There can only be so many characters left. All of these are a threat. Plus Sakurai may still take up slots with his out there ideas for characters that no one asked for, too. I would be surprised if he didn't.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Yeah, it's just there's a heck of a lot more competition here than we've been led to believe in this topic. It looks like Isaac is only number one because of US, going by that image.

Of course, none of this data is 100% accurate to the real results of the Ballot. And I'm scared that Sakurai will move on and say "Well, Isaac is popular in the US, but I need to appease JP, as well, so *skips over Isaac* Bandanna Lee!"

There can only be so many characters left. All of these are a threat. Plus Sakurai may still take up slots with his out there ideas for characters that no one asked for, too. I would be surprised if he didn't.

Us/Eu*

 

[?!?!?!]

Wish we could just fast forward a week or two, the wait for a new announcement is killing me

How many more characters do you guys think we'll get as the final roster? My guess is 4 unique and 4 echo. Not that I'm expecting that many, its just my prediction

and I also feel that 4 and 4 would cover the majority of fan requests

 

[KMDP]

Jesus it's only been like a week, how can people not remember a time Skull Kid wasn't super popular

Pepperidge farm remembers.

Okay, but seriously; I think this is an extension of people saying: "Oh, Ridley/K. Rool/etc were obvious, safe speculation picks" and the like.

People have bad memories when it comes to this kind of thing.

"Skull Kid was always popular", when in actuality, Skull Kid was barely talked about.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Bassoonist pointed it out well, but the two biggest things against Isaac are,

1) The cutting room floor - There's only so many characters left to be added. Isaac would basically be a nice bone to EU fans (which, let's be real here, Europe hardly ever gets) along with others. I know we're getting hyped because of King K. Rool and Ridley, but let's not assume he (and other characters, for that matter) have no competition

2) The stages - Everyone's pointed this out already so I don't need to repeat it because it'll be a loop();

Which... this game he also has way more advantages than practically any other. I want Geno and Isaac more than anything else for this game, but I'm also preparing myself to get my hopes shot down.

 

[StormC]

Being 9th place in Japan does concern me, though. Bandanna Waddle Dee (a character that is likely to catch Sakurai's bias), Magalor (another Kirby character?), Paper Mario, and Geno are ranked a lot higher in Japan. Lets just hope that Sakurai cares about it from a global standpoint and not just JP.

Speaking as a Bandana Dee fan, Sakurai’s bias is more of a hindrance than a help since he seems to mostly only care about his games. I felt my heart sink a bit when the Kirby song chosen was from Air Ride; he hasn’t changed.

 

[Lonodel]

Pepperidge farm remembers.

Okay, but seriously; I think this is an extension of people saying: "Oh, Ridley/K. Rool/etc were obvious, safe speculation picks" and the like.

People have bad memories when it comes to this kind of thing.

"Skull Kid was always popular", when in actuality, Skull Kid was barely talked about.

Definetly agree the skull kid bandwagon is getting under my skin XD, not that I don't want him in or anything just that it's all because of some fake leaks. I love how nintendo is going with it and dropping skull kid like everywhere though

 

[Bassoonist]

Us/Eu*

Oh, great point. Somehow I missed the "EU" part of that. Being #1 in both US/EU is a big deal that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Here's something i noticed.

Grey Fox is the only AT returning in brawl, and he's called "new".

Why didn't Ray or Isaac show off the assist trophies since they both in the top 25? It's not like porting their assist trophies is difficult given we have Grey Fox here.

I think there could be a possibility that Ray and Isaac could be shown off as characters too. Certainly, the roster always at least has one character that was from an unrepresented franchise. (Saki could get in too, but she was barely in the poll. I am mostly prepared to not expect her as well.)

Then again, i could be wrong. I am prepared to be wrong, but given that they were on the poll, (and custom robo was above Simon globally) i at least hope they have a chance too.

 

[N3ON]

Being 9th place in Japan does concern me, though. Bandanna Waddle Dee (a character that is likely to catch Sakurai's bias), Magalor (another Kirby character?), Paper Mario, and Geno are ranked a lot higher in Japan. Lets just hope that Sakurai cares about it from a global standpoint and not just JP.

I don't think being post-Sakurai characters are doing Bandana Dee and Magolor any favours. I certainly wouldn't anticipate bias being in their corner, as all the evidence seems to point towards Sakurai being biased for his own tenure with the series (and therefore overlooking most everything after).

Also I do think Sakurai will give a lot of credence to the global standing of things, however the amount the west has already been appeased is a bit worrisome in terms of how much else we could get that favours us over Japan. I agree.

 

[StormC]

I don't think being post-Sakurai characters are doing Bandana Dee and Magolor any favours. I certainly wouldn't anticipate bias being in their corner, as all the evidence seems to point towards Sakurai being biased for his own tenure with the series (and therefore overlooking most everything after).

Also I do think Sakurai will give a lot of credence to the global standing of things, however the amount the west has already been appeased is a bit worrisome in terms of how much else we could get that favours us over Japan. I agree.

It could be argued that K. Rool was already catering to Japanese fans.

Y’know that meme with the guy sweating over which two buttons to push? (Use your imagination, I’m on mobile.)

-Make Japanese fans happy by adding Bandana Dee
-Continue to ignore modern Kirby and don’t add Bandana Dee

Basically the conundrum Sakurai is in.

 

[Bassoonist]

I see. I'm not super familiar with the Kirby series. I only really ever enjoyed Kirby 64.

Lets hope that Isaac's prominence in both regions means he can't be ignored.

 

[N3ON]

It could be argued that K. Rool was already catering to Japanese fans.

It could be, but personally I would exclude characters with strong worldwide popularity from really contributing to either side. Except maybe like Inkling, who was quite popular over here but is just massive in Japan.

Y’know that meme with the guy sweating over which two buttons to push? (Use your imagination, I’m on mobile.)

-Make Japanese fans happy by adding Bandana Dee
-Continue to ignore modern Kirby and don’t add Bandana Dee

Basically the conundrum Sakurai is in.

I suppose if Sakurai included a different character highly popular in Japan he could sort of eschew the problem... or at least find a compromise in appeasing the region somehow.

 

[Lonodel]

Im honestly surprised paper mario is doing so well he was kind of my back up for Isaac xD

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Being 9th place in Japan does concern me, though. Bandanna Waddle Dee (a character that is likely to catch Sakurai's bias), Magalor (another Kirby character?), Paper Mario, and Geno are ranked a lot higher in Japan. Lets just hope that Sakurai cares about it from a global standpoint and not just JP.

Magolor had pretty much no prescence outside of Japan. (and he has to compete with Bandana Dee) Also Shantae doesn't seem to have nearly as much sway in Japan as she does in the rest of the world. Taking that into consideration I think it's actually a very good thing that Isaac at least has some popularity in Japan backing him up....because even though I think Sakurai is focusing more on western demands, he's probably not going to put someone in who doesn't at least have some demand in Japan. (and if #9 is the placement Isaac has in Japan I'd say that's still pretty good)

Personally I get a big impression that Sakurai is focusing on the west moreso than Japan. Ridley was largely a request from outside of Japan and even Bayonetta was cited as being number in Europe (whether or not that was really true she was probably still very popular in Europe) Not to mention Dark Samus was created in the US....so I would assume (but maybe I'm wrong) that most of her popularity also comes from outside Japan.

Arguably looking at this poll Banjo & Kazooie look like they're in the best position.

 

[Jibblypuff_]

The newsgroup I own is currently running a Smash Ballot and as of now, it has around 11,500 responses. I shared an update regarding the current results(not final) in the Smash Ultimate discussion thread but I figured some of you here may be interested so I'll just quote myself from that thread.

I have a little update on this. I initially wasn't planning on making the results public until much later but since it seems to be very successful, I thought I would give a slight tease of what the results are looking like so far.
With roughly 11,500 responses, here's what the Top 3 is looking like so far:

Spoiler: Top 3

3. Sora
2. Isaac
1. Geno

You can vote here if you're interested: https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1030202551696875521

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Yeah, it's just there's a heck of a lot more competition here than we've been led to believe in this topic. It looks like Isaac is only number one because of US, going by that image.

Of course, none of this data is 100% accurate to the real results of the Ballot. And I'm scared that Sakurai will move on and say "Well, Isaac is popular in the US, but I need to appease JP, as well, so *skips over Isaac* Bandanna Lee!"

There can only be so many characters left. All of these are a threat. Plus Sakurai may still take up slots with his out there ideas for characters that no one asked for, too. I would be surprised if he didn't.

I'd argue the closer we get to release the less likely we are to get a reveal like Wii Fit Trainer. (if anything I think the window of time for that has already passed) I'd imagine she was one of the first characters revealed for that exact reason. I could still see a retro character of some sort appearing though. (though I personally don't feel it's likely)

Sakurai likes surprising people, so if he surprises you by not including an oddball then I guess he's succeeded.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

The newsgroup I own is currently running a Smash Ballot and as of now, it has around 11,500 responses. I shared an update regarding the current results(not final) in the Smash Ultimate discussion thread but I figured some of you here may be interested so I'll just quote myself from that thread.



You can vote here if you're interested: https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1030202551696875521

Wow. Geno is certainly doing well. Isaac being the top 3 in any charts still makes me as happy as a lamb.

 

[alguidrag]

about that pool
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
Me *shows that pool*
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
why people are like that?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

about that pool
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
Me *shows that pool*
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
why people are like that?

Everyone forgot about ROB and Duck Hunt, but they managed to get in.

(Insert thinking meme)

 

[StormC]

about that pool
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
Me *shows that pool*
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
why people are like that?

K. Rool fans heard the same garbage. Don’t worry about it.

 

[N3ON]

about that pool
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
Me *shows that pool*
My Friends
"No one knows Isaac"
why people are like that?

As if the vast majority of people who know about Geno these days learned about him through SMRPG instead of the Smash fanbase.

 

[James Tutumbero]

With all the popular characters being added in Smash Ultimate, I can totally see Isaac joining Smash being the surprise character (I also see Dillon in that type of character), cause he's really popular here, but not between the general public.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, it's just there's a heck of a lot more competition here than we've been led to believe in this topic. It looks like Isaac is only number one because of US, going by that image.

Of course, none of this data is 100% accurate to the real results of the Ballot. And I'm scared that Sakurai will move on and say "Well, Isaac is popular in the US, but I need to appease JP, as well, so *skips over Isaac* Bandanna Lee!"

There can only be so many characters left. All of these are a threat. Plus Sakurai may still take up slots with his out there ideas for characters that no one asked for, too. I would be surprised if he didn't.

Bassoonist pointed it out well, but the two biggest things against Isaac are,

1) The cutting room floor - There's only so many characters left to be added. Isaac would basically be a nice bone to EU fans (which, let's be real here, Europe hardly ever gets) along with others. I know we're getting hyped because of King K. Rool and Ridley, but let's not assume he (and other characters, for that matter) have no competition

2) The stages - Everyone's pointed this out already so I don't need to repeat it because it'll be a loop();

Which... this game he also has way more advantages than practically any other. I want Geno and Isaac more than anything else for this game, but I'm also preparing myself to get my hopes shot down.

Very good points here, however I think there are two points both of you are missing in your arguments. While yes people in this thread are looking at Bandanna Dee as "competition"... when did the Bandanna Dee requests begin? At least a few years after brawl came out. And they generally did not get loud until around the time Smash 4 came out. That's what, 4 years of loud support for a series getting its' 4th most essential character?

Isaac requests have been flying since around the time Melee came out as the series' most central characters. That is 17 years of quite loud requests for Isaac. We've gotten a new Golden Sun song in Brawl and Smash 4, Isaac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl, and Isaac demand has stayed relatively the same since after Brawl came out. Bandanna Dee's support and appeal is newer akin to the Inklings, Isaac's support is older akin to K. Rool's and Ridley's.

This leads me to a unique and important angle I am not seeing a lot of people looking at. I've alluded to it over the years with Isaac, but alas we are at this point with Isaac. He's a retro character with nostalgic appeal. And as we know with nostalgic appeal, it grows with time. That is about as big of an advantage a character can have. Why yes the field of Nintendo potential newcomers is smaller, but there's still many candidates; Yet how many are actually characters people get nostalgic about and feel retro?

It's just Isaac, Dixie Kong, Skull Kid. .Which leads me to my last point... of all those 3 characters... Isaac is the last one to give us a new taste from a new series (and studio too).

And this won't change any time soon. All of the NES-GameCube era Nintendo franchises that have popularity in regards to Smash and are Nintendo-owned already got playable characters in Smash. Isaac is the last one left. Because of that, I feel like until we get Isaac, he will always have unique qualifications. Isaac is going to stick out for these reasons likely above all the others, and that is why he will always have this support as a potential newcomer until he is eventually playable in Smash Bros.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Very good points here, however I think there are two points both of you are missing in your arguments. While yes people in this thread are looking at Bandanna Dee as "competition"... when did the Bandanna Dee requests begin? At least a few years after brawl came out. And they generally did not get loud until around the time Smash 4 came out. That's what, 4 years of loud support for a series getting its' 4th most essential character?

Isaac requests have been flying since around the time Melee came out as the series' most central characters. That is 17 years of quite loud requests for Isaac. We've gotten a new Golden Sun song in Brawl and Smash 4, Isaac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl, and Isaac demand has stayed relatively the same since after Brawl came out. Bandanna Dee's support and appeal is newer akin to the Inklings, Isaac's support is older akin to K. Rool's and Ridley's.

This leads me to a unique and important angle I am not seeing a lot of people looking at. I've alluded to it over the years with Isaac, but alas we are at this point with Isaac. He's a retro character with nostalgic appeal. And as we know with nostalgic appeal, it grows with time. That is about as big of an advantage a character can have. Why yes the field of Nintendo potential newcomers is smaller, but there's still many candidates; Yet how many are actually characters people get nostalgic about and feel retro?

It's just Isaac, Dixie Kong, Skull Kid. .Which leads me to my last point... of all those 3 characters... Isaac is the last one to give us a new taste from a new series (and studio too).

And this won't change any time soon. All of the NES-GameCube era Nintendo franchises that have popularity in regards to Smash and are Nintendo-owned already got playable characters in Smash. Isaac is the last one left. Because of that, I feel like until we get Isaac, he will always have unique qualifications. Isaac is going to stick out for these reasons likely above all the others, and that is why he will always have this support as a potential newcomer until he is eventually playable in Smash Bros.

I agree with most of this post. I could start listing off the cutting room floor, but I'm talking about far more than just Bandana Dee as competition, and we mean that there's very newcomers left (we're assuming) - I'm not as pessimistic as others, I assume 4 to 6, but there's still a lot of concerns raised up that shouldn't be ignored. Trust me, I've been around this Isaac and Geno ship long enough as you know, but I'm far from saying they're shoo-ins now.

Honestly, I think the bigger argument at play here is really the stage argument, which we're not gonna get an answer to for a while.

 

[LasermasterA]

All this exit poll data is looking very good for Isaac. The estimated ballot poll pie chart and the exit poll spreadsheet, they all point to Isaac being the most requested character who is not yet in the game.

The news around K. Rool being neglected until Nintendo saw the ballot results, after which he got his revival via Smash, hints that a similar treatment might be given to Isaac. Sure, Nintendo and Camelot might be neglecting Golden Sun cause the demand wasn't there according to them, but our votes PROVE that Isaac is very loved and very popular. Our fanbase has been around since 17 years, and we're still growing stronger!

Isaac will get in as playable. I believe it to be true :D

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Very good points here, however I think there are two points both of you are missing in your arguments. While yes people in this thread are looking at Bandanna Dee as "competition"... when did the Bandanna Dee requests begin? At least a few years after brawl came out. And they generally did not get loud until around the time Smash 4 came out. That's what, 4 years of loud support for a series getting its' 4th most essential character?

Isaac requests have been flying since around the time Melee came out as the series' most central characters. That is 17 years of quite loud requests for Isaac. We've gotten a new Golden Sun song in Brawl and Smash 4, Isaac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl, and Isaac demand has stayed relatively the same since after Brawl came out. Bandanna Dee's support and appeal is newer akin to the Inklings, Isaac's support is older akin to K. Rool's and Ridley's.

This leads me to a unique and important angle I am not seeing a lot of people looking at. I've alluded to it over the years with Isaac, but alas we are at this point with Isaac. He's a retro character with nostalgic appeal. And as we know with nostalgic appeal, it grows with time. That is about as big of an advantage a character can have. Why yes the field of Nintendo potential newcomers is smaller, but there's still many candidates; Yet how many are actually characters people get nostalgic about and feel retro?

It's just Isaac, Dixie Kong, Skull Kid. .Which leads me to my last point... of all those 3 characters... Isaac is the last one to give us a new taste from a new series (and studio too).

And this won't change any time soon. All of the NES-GameCube era Nintendo franchises that have popularity in regards to Smash and are Nintendo-owned already got playable characters in Smash. Isaac is the last one left. Because of that, I feel like until we get Isaac, he will always have unique qualifications. Isaac is going to stick out for these reasons likely above all the others, and that is why he will always have this support as a potential newcomer until he is eventually playable in Smash Bros.

He's right. Not only that, but Sakurai doesnt have that many "Nintendo owned" characters to choose from in Smash bros.

If you look at this, you'll see something interesting.

Melee:

Ice climbers
Marth (FE)
Mr Game and Watch

Brawl:

Pit (Kid Icarus)
Wario (WarioWare) ( i know he's a mario character, but Wario is mostly based on his Warioware version.)
Olimar (Pikmin)
Rob

4:

Villager (Animal Crossing)
Wii Fit trainer
Little Mac (Punch Out)
Mii Fighter
Shulk (Xenoblade)
Duck Hunt Duo

(I'm not counting 3rd party because they arent owned by Nintendo)

Now let's see ultimate:

Inkling (Ultimate)


See something? There has always been 3 or more brand new franchise Representative characters.

I get that Sakurai isn't going to have as many characters, but certainly not below melee.

Isaac seems more and more likely given that Sakurai always loves to make characters based on old franchises.

There could also be Wonderful101, Sin and Punishment, Dillion, Custom Robo, or Chibi-Robo as represntation.

But idk. Don't take my word for it. It could be false.

 

[SonicLink125]

My concern is the new faces showing up like Rex, Spring Man, etc. Granted, they came after the ballot, but they will be huge in polls after Ultimate's release. Isaac (and others) better get in this time around or we might be waiting even longer for their inclusion.

The waiting game can be a cruel mistress.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Honestly, I think the bigger argument at play here is really the stage argument, which we're not gonna get an answer to for a while.

While I think the "no more stages" argument is incredibly shaky....there is a case for a character getting in to the base game and then getting a stage through dlc.

It happened to Duck Hunt. They were in the base game but their stage came along as a free update after launch.

 

[Deleted member]

With all the popular characters being added in Smash Ultimate, I can totally see Isaac joining Smash being the surprise character (I also see Dillon in that type of character), cause he's really popular here, but not between the general public.

The general public wants Goku and Shrek in.

 

[Pwnapplez]

My concern is the new faces showing up like Rex, Spring Man, etc. Granted, they came after the ballot, but they will be huge in polls after Ultimate's release. Isaac (and others) better get in this time around or we might be waiting even longer for their inclusion.

The waiting game can be a cruel mistress.

I don't see Rex making it in. At least in base game.

Spring man maybe? But then again Sakurai wants to make fans happy first, then have additional characters.

DLC is going to come through, newer faces may come from that

Sakurai said, we plan on showing off all the fighters before release
we have a few more
few is 3 and above,
worst we can get is 2 echoes one new fighter
Unless he does not count echos taking up new fighter spots

While I think the "no more stages" argument is incredibly shaky....there is a case for a character getting in to the base game and then getting a stage through dlc.

It happened to Duck Hunt. They were in the base game but their stage came along as a free update after launch.

There is going to be more staages, I didn't hear, 103 is the limit for stages

 

[Johnknight1]

I agree with most of this post. I could start listing off the cutting room floor, but I'm talking about far more than just Bandana Dee as competition, and we mean that there's very newcomers left (we're assuming) - I'm not as pessimistic as others, I assume 4 to 6, but there's still a lot of concerns raised up that shouldn't be ignored. Trust me, I've been around this Isaac and Geno ship long enough as you know, but I'm far from saying they're shoo-ins now.

Honestly, I think the bigger argument at play here is really the stage argument, which we're not gonna get an answer to for a while.

Like even comparing Bandanna Dee to Isaac... Bandanna Dee is sort of in the weird spot Isaac was in with Smash 4 where they are "new" but not "that new." They get easily overshadowed by newer and more popular characters like Isabelle, Spring Man, The Inklings until they were confirmed, Rex and Elma from Xenoblades, the star of the next Fire Emblem game, etc.

Isaac again is basically "purely retro" and "purely nostalgic." And he's the last of that kind to bring about a new franchise and a new way a character can be played entirely as a result that really anyone is asking for left.

As for unique character roster spots, we've gotten 3 Nintendo-owned characters so far. I would say at most we get 4 more pre-DLC. 1 is going to a new Pokémon, as per tradition. Another 1 is going to Skull Kid if we believe the leaks.

That leaves 0-2 spots left pre-DLC, and likely a few more post-DLC. Now Isabelle is probably an Echo Fighter. That makes the field WIDEEEEE open after the top 1 or 2.

That leaves the following top candidates for original moveset Nintendo-owned characters:
1. Spring Man: Probably more likely as DLC than a base fighter, but seems like a "for sure thing" either way.
2. Isaac: Going solely off the leaks he seems likely as a base fighter but could be DLC too.
3. Rex (w/ or w/o Pyra) or Elma from Xenoblades: Could be DLC or a base fighter, but overall very likely. Odds favor Rex or Elma by a wide margin in this regard.
4. Dixie Kong: If she's an original moveset character she's most likely DLC, if she's an Echo Fighter or a clone fighter then she's a different category altogether.
5. Something Rhythm Heaven: Almost definitely DLC if we get it.
6, Bandanna Dee: Overshadowed a bit and seems to be in no man's land.
7. The main character of Fire Emblem - The 3 Houses: DLC or bust.
8. Paper Mario: Just doesn't seem to have the support or really that "X Factor" to put much faith in him being playable.
9. Alm (w/ or w/o Celica) (Fire Emblem): Time is passing by him quickly... as did Chrom.
10. Funky Kong: IDK just seems like the default last choice haha.

Probably missing a few after Paper Mario in regards to non-clones/non-Echo Fighters of Nintendo-owned characters... but to be fair, after that it is just a minefield of largely nobodies/unpopular or unfamiliar characters.

And lastly in regards to the stages... no way we don't get more. No way this game is "Ultimate" and brings back all these stages and not Mute City at least as DLC (maybe PokéFloats too). It's not like Sakurai hasn't hidden stuff before and said this is it too, and we've got DLC stages with newcomers in 3/4 of the DLC newcomers we got in Smash 4.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

While I think the "no more stages" argument is incredibly shaky....there is a case for a character getting in to the base game and then getting a stage through dlc.

It happened to Duck Hunt. They were in the base game but their stage came along as a free update after launch.

Absolutely agreed. For the record, I think Isaac is the most likely newcomer currently (bar any leaks and even then...) and there's a lot to support him. It's just that the two biggest things against him are... very big.

If it's any consolation, all of argument #1 transfers to literally every other character, and #2 transfers to any new franchise period.

 

[JaidynReiman]

While I think the "no more stages" argument is incredibly shaky....there is a case for a character getting in to the base game and then getting a stage through dlc.

It happened to Duck Hunt. They were in the base game but their stage came along as a free update after launch.

The Duck Hunt stage was available at launch on Wii U. It was added to the 3DS version for free. Not really the same thing here.


But yeah, I don't think we're done with stages because its:
1.) Way too far out to be done with stages
2.) Would blatantly deconfirm any third-parties, greatly restricting the roster going forward, making it more likely people could guess who to add

I didn't include first-party IP's in #2 because I don't think its that massive of a restriction but it is somewhat notable. Its a lot easier to get behind a new first-party IP without its own stage than it would be for a third-party IP, even if its not very likely even a first-party IP didn't get its own stage.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

We still got 3 / 4 months before release, of course they still have more stage / characters in store to show. They can't just "ok that's it folks ! See you in 4 months !". It's Smash, gotta keep that hype going till release !

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

https://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428117515