Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[FlawedAI]

But he wins the able-to-fill-out-a-challenger-pack contest 10 out of 10 times, so it evens out.

True, but I'm of the mind that if Nintendo wants Waluigi, they'll get Waluigi. I hope you're right, but I can't shake the feeling that Waluigi is finally gonna happen.

 

[Gioka]

So I can't say I'm optimistic about Isaac in FP2 at this point, but if you happen to be keeping up the faith, today's Direct was a bit of good news: the reason the new fighter is Pyra/Mythra instead of Rex/Pyra and/or Rex/Mythra is due to Ice Climbers-style complexity, not because of the Rex costume. In fact, Rex's spirit is being updated to evolve into a second form, so in case there was any doubt left, changing existing content is clearly not an issue. The Golden Sun may yet rise again!

I actually had a similar train of thought, like, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 already had a bunch of spirits, but it still made it, just like Golden Sun already having spirits, but being able to add more or update the battles.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Like I was thinking at the time of Pyra reveal, Rex wasn't selected because of complexity, not because of his current status. Once more, nothing official supports the fan rules.

Two more thing to note.

• The presence of Capcom costumes. Monster Hunter is definitively out, but could that hinder Phoenix and Dante chances?
• The lack of Lloyd costume. Will we see a Tales of character getting in in the end?

I think Lloyd has a very good shot, and I do feel the Arthur and MH costumes hurt Phoenix and Dante's chances because they could have kept those for an all Capcom pass, if that was the case (like how we got Chocobo and Geno back with the SquareEnix rep)

Anyways, my third party most wanted is now dead out of the running, what else is new? Ahah.... Dang. I wish Smash was a bit nicer with my heart sometimes

 

[Kalaam]

I actually had a similar train of thought, like, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 already had a bunch of spirits, but it still made it, just like Golden Sun already having spirits, but being able to add more or update the battles.

Just like ARMS that had costumes, spirits, assists. Xenoblade had costumes, was addressed as not being added as playable on release, had bunch of costumes and some music.
They also showed they would create new art for spirits if necessary.
We could 100% get a Fusion Dragon art if they wanted it as a spirit, or a wise one art.

 

[TempestSurge]

Ideally it'd be nice if the last two spots were both a 3rd party rep and 1st party, that'd split it half and half. Or both spots being Nintendo characters lol. Hopefully we can still squeeze in one more new first party franchise. As far as in game content it was mentioned for non playable reps that Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had quite a bit. Astral Chain is also a new IP with a game currently in the Switch that could win out. Of course could also just get two third parties in the last slot and Nintendo doesn't have to deal with digging through their own franchises lol.

 

[Gioka]

Just like ARMS that had costumes, spirits, assists. Xenoblade had costumes, was addressed as not being added as playable on release, had bunch of costumes and some music.
They also showed they would create new art for spirits if necessary.
We could 100% get a Fusion Dragon art if they wanted it as a spirit, or a wise one art.

Yes! This doesn't mean it is a lock, but it means it doesn't hurt our chances either. I hope they really fulfill the "second chances fighter pass" with upgrading ATs

 

[TempestSurge]

Yes! This doesn't mean it is a lock, but it means it doesn't hurt our chances either. I hope they really fulfill the "second chances fighter pass" with upgrading ATs

After Arms, I'm curious what could be the next new Nintendo franchise that's added. When we think of the series that have yet to be represented, Golden Sun stands out as really popular and it feels like there's only so long Nintendo can avoid not adding it as the new franchise to Smash. We've of course gotten more third parties as a result so they're essentially new franchises to Smash, but in the Nintendo catalog Golden Sun will still there as a popular unrepresented franchise.

Jeez it always feels like but there's been some unfortunate circumstance for each Smash installment.

Brawl, here's Isaac but as the new assist trophy feature! Smash 4, wait this blonde dude doesn't have a game currently on the 3DS or Wii U that we can advertise? Who's he again? Everyone is here in Smash Ultimate! So limited amount of newcomers with more focus on 3rd parties for post DLC as now Smash is the celebration of all gaming, not just Nintendo anymore!

If we could get another pass, not counting on it, but Golden Sun feels so close to being chosen when it comes to new first party reps but at the same time Nintendo can forever avoid it with 3rd parties, existing reps or more relevant new reps like Astral Chain from whatever new IP that happens to pop up between now and whenever the next Smash is.

 

[Nauzgo]

After Arms, I'm curious what could be the next new Nintendo franchise that's added. When we think of the series that have yet to be represented, Golden Sun stands out as really popular and it feels like there's only so long Nintendo can avoid not adding it as the new franchise to Smash.

I'd say Golden Sun is the only Nintendo franchise left whose character is highly requested and next to Rhythm Heaven and perhaps Astral Chain the only one with considerable sales.

Gotta say, the decision to introduce Arms to Smash after one game that sold well was a sign that they're probably out of First Party franchises they'd consider to add. Either they add Golden Sun soon or we'll only have new franchises, retros or 3rd party in the future imo.

With all these obscure 3rd party picks it'd be pretty disappointing not having any more new Nintendo franchises in. They should mix it a little.

 

[Monue]

I expect Lloyd to come back as a Mii Costume. I think the trend here has been a steady drip of Smash 4 Mii Costumes, only Lloyd is left. Everyone's saying that's because he's going to come, but, that seems to be less the case now more than ever in my opinion. They've drip fed us, and he's the final drip, why assume he's going to be the lucky one? If Monster Hunter hadn't happened this time, I'd have been more inclined to assume otherwise, but now I absolutely expect Lloyd to be a Mii Costume.

Isaac isn't coming either way, but I don't know who else they could have cooking. It certainly feels like slim pickings at this point.

 

[SPEN18]

Isaac loses the popularity contest to Waluigi 10 out of 10 times.

But Isaac probably beat Waluigi on the Ballot, which is the one that counts (although Waluigi was hurt by being AT'd for Smash4 while Isaac wasn't).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Astral Chain

After today, I think it's done forever. It got spirited, then Sakurai confirmed duo fighters only work with simpler designs like the ICs or Luma.

 

[FlawedAI]

But Isaac probably beat Waluigi on the Ballot, which is the one that counts (although Waluigi was hurt by being AT'd for Smash4 while Isaac wasn't).

It's funny you mention that, because I've thought about how Isaac not being an AT in Smash For is probably the best thing to happen to the series since TLA. Without needing to worry about "ATs deconfirm" Isaac fans could vote for him freely and boy, did they. We've gotten shortchanged so many times, I hope we're finally given a lifeline with this last bit of DLC.

 

[Gioka]

But Isaac probably beat Waluigi on the Ballot, which is the one that counts (although Waluigi was hurt by being AT'd for Smash4 while Isaac wasn't).

_Which honestly is one of the things that slightly annoys me/ confuses me. How come every sign points to Isaac doing well on the ballot, yet he is the only popular choice that has not once been addressed? Sakurai has never talked about GS or Isaac, bringing him back as an AT when other ballot contenders were brought in as new fighters, returning fighter or echo fighters, why? I wish they could at least address his popularity

 

[GalacticPetey]

I think it was indirect acknowledgment. Isaac went from having practically nothing in Wii U to assist trophy, mii costume, and a substantial amount of spirits for a non playable franchise. Isaac unfortunately drew the short end of the stick and was lower priority, especially with the limited character slots.

Like most of the history of Golden Sun and Smash, a case of bad timing.

 

[N3ON]

After today, I think it's done forever. It got spirited, then Sakurai confirmed duo fighters only work with simpler designs like the ICs or Luma.

Well one, that character can get away with only two parts, like those working examples. The Xenoblade one was presumably going to have Rex, Pyra and Mythra. Second, future iterations will be on more powerful hardware, capable of more taxing characters. So it's not done forever. It's just done this time. And that's just due to already being spirited.

It's funny you mention that, because I've thought about how Isaac not being an AT in Smash For is probably the best thing to happen to the series since TLA. Without needing to worry about "ATs deconfirm" Isaac fans could vote for him freely and boy, did they. We've gotten shortchanged so many times, I hope we're finally given a lifeline with this last bit of DLC.

Isaac usually making it to the end has caused a lot of stress and gnashing of teeth for his fanbase but it's done wonders for his popularity. If he was always shown towards the beginning he probably wouldn't even have that much remaining popularity.

_Which honestly is one of the things that slightly annoys me/ confuses me. How come every sign points to Isaac doing well on the ballot, yet he is the only popular choice that has not once been addressed? Sakurai has never talked about GS or Isaac, bringing him back as an AT when other ballot contenders were brought in as new fighters, returning fighter or echo fighters, why? I wish they could at least address his popularity

Yeah it would be nice, but it's not like K. Rool was acknowledged either before he became playable. The fact that GS got such a bump in content from 4 is the acknowledgement of his popularity. Besides, unless Sakurai said "don't expect Isaac ever", I'm not sure what tangible impact a statement would make. He said about how he wanted to add Geno, and the Geno fans have clung to that excerpt, but it hasn't actually resulted in getting Geno. So....

It would be nice, but ultimately the actions do speak louder than words.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Dark Dawn was recent at the time Smash 4 was conceptualised but Golden Sun only got two tracks in Smash 4 Wii U. Dark Dawn was 5 years old at the time Smash Ultimate was conceptualised and yet Isaac was the only cut AT (that didn’t have the excuse of licensing) to return (even though Everyone is Here absolutely did not apply to ATs, just look at Saki), got additional attacks in his repertoire, got a Mii costume, the second highest amount of spirits besides Rhythm Heaven as far as unrepresented first party franchises go (8 vs 9) and said AT was the first one showcased in that Assist Trophy montage with music from said franchise (no other unrepresented franchise had music in that montage). It’s absolutely clear Isaac did very well on the ballot.

 

[Gioka]

Yeah it would be nice, but it's not like K. Rool was acknowledged either before he became playable. The fact that GS got such a bump in content from 4 is the acknowledgement of his popularity. Besides, unless Sakurai said "don't expect Isaac ever", I'm not sure what tangible impact a statement would make. He said about how he wanted to add Geno, and the Geno fans have clung to that excerpt, but it hasn't actually resulted in getting Geno. So....

It would be nice, but ultimately the actions do speak louder than words.

I agree with you, I'd love it if Isaac or a GS rep made it in

Dark Dawn was recent at the time Smash 4 was conceptualised but Golden Sun only got two tracks in Smash 4 Wii U. Dark Dawn was 5 years old at the time Smash Ultimate was conceptualised and yet Isaac was the only cut AT (that didn’t have the excuse of licensing) to return (even though Everyone is Here absolutely did not apply to ATs, just look at Saki), got additional attacks in his repertoire, got a Mii costume, the second highest amount of spirits besides Rhythm Heaven as far as unrepresented first party franchises go (8 vs 9) and said AT was the first one showcased in that Assist Trophy montage with music from said franchise (no other unrepresented franchise had music in that montage). It’s absolutely clear Isaac did very well on the ballot.

So it has all been a matter of timing for Isaac then? Because I'd expect him to become playable if he did well on the ballot, I know we had little amount of newcomers for Ultimate, but DLC was likely already planned (at least the first pass)

 

[THE 6r]

Just came in to say that, while I don't think we're going to make it, I still have some hope out there. Besides, Lloyd looks more likely now and that makes me very happy.

 

[Nazyrus]

So thanks to NessAtc. a few minutes ago, we noticed something quite interesting… Rex's spirit fight is on a different stage now.

Not only spirit fights can get their mii fighters updated with costumes, but also stages can be changed as well in spirit fights. Nothing is impossible in this game, if something new exists, they are willing to update anything in the game.

Some of us already believed in it, but it's great to actually see it be done, for anyone who thinks they would limit themselves to updating stuff if we get new fighters or miis, lol.

Pretty sure having a fighter Isaac and a GS stage would be no problem to have change whatever we currently have with Isaac's spirit fight, for example.

 

[SonicLink125]

Mythra is in awe that Isaac is full of light thanks to the #GoldenSun , and wants to touch his banana hair. lol
#SmashBros #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/XI9ldPlZ7b

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) March 5, 2021

I think Mythra and Isaac would get along. Both blonds and inherit 'Light" in one way or another. Just don't tell Jenna. lmao

So thanks to NessAtc. a few minutes ago, we noticed something quite interesting… Rex's spirit fight is on a different stage now.

Not only spirit fights can get their mii fighters updated with costumes, but also stages can be changed as well in spirit fights. Nothing is impossible in this game, if something new exists, they are willing to update anything in the game.

Some of us already believed in it, but it's great to actually see it be done, for anyone who thinks they would limit themselves to updating stuff if we get new fighters or miis, lol.

Pretty sure having a fighter Isaac and a GS stage would be no problem to have changed from whatever we currently have with Isaac's spirit fight, for example.

This definitely shows they are willing to change base game stuff if needed. I hope both Isaac and Lloyd make it in this pass.

 

[Gioka]

Man, all the changes and updates makes me so hopeful for Isaac if they are indeed sticking to giving an extra chance to those that missed base game. It feels like we got so close with the content, with literally only new music, stage and a playable character missing...

 

[TempestSurge]

One thing I want to touch on is Sakurai once again insisting how his preferences don't play a role in the new fighters added. He knows that some fans are going all, 'Another sword fighter!' but he says it's not up to him whether another one gets added or not. This is just another point when it comes to Nintendo overseeing the fighters over Sakurai. Certain characters on the pass certainly wouldn't be here if it were up to him.

I also found the part about including fighters that have histories interesting, saying that Hero and Banjo appeared 20 to 30 years ago and wanting to include a wide breadth of characters. Then there's a funny bit where Sakurai says if he goes any further in describing the character selection process then Nintendo will get on to him lol.

Anyways this year Golden Sun will hit the 20 year mark so it certainly fits the timeframe mentioned there coupled with Nintendo overseeing the selection process somewhere Sakurai may have skipped adding another jrpg character, Nintendo on the other hand will add who they want regardless if there's already similar archetypes or too many of this or that.

Either way there are two characters left so I wonder if Nintendo will show off the final two at E3 together or continue at the pace they've been releasing characters so far.

Edit: Forgot about the point where Sakurai says that swordfighters are easy to implement vs characters like Steve. Since Isaac will use his sword in some capacity in his moveset that partly works out for him.

 

[Guynamednelson]

some fans are going all, 'Another sword fighter!'

Remember, these are the same fans who welcomed Sephiroth with open arms regardless of how tired of swordies they were. "Ugh, another swordfighter" doesn't necessarily mean "ugh, another swordfighter".

 

[TempestSurge]

Remember, these are the same fans who welcomed Sephiroth with open arms regardless of how tired of swordies they were. "Ugh, another swordfighter" doesn't necessarily mean "ugh, another swordfighter".

Yeah Sephiroth is 3rd party and in general iconic in the gaming scene. Pyra had a double whammy of being a a first party character on top of another sword one. Though Sakurai tends to always be on top of fan complaints and addresses things like that in interviews just as with Byleth and being another FE character and say it wasn't really up to him when it came to adding certain characters so just reiterating what he mentioned.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Pyra had a double whammy of being a a first party character on top of another sword one.

Yeah, but the overall complaints weren't on par with Byleth. How could they be? No one thought Shulk and Shulk alone meant Xenoblade was overrepresented. Not to mention, not only does Pyra/Mythra's trailer have less dislikes, it has almost twice as much likes as Byleth's.

 

[TempestSurge]

Yeah, but the overall complaints weren't on par with Byleth. How could they be? No one thought Shulk and Shulk alone meant Xenoblade was overrepresented. Not to mention, not only does Pyra/Mythra's trailer have less dislikes, it has almost twice as much likes as Byleth's.

Yeah I'm not really too bothered by it. Things like this the vocal minority always appears to be larger but is never really the case.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

are fun characters to play and the music they bought with them is great. It’s just as well there is only two more characters left until Ultimate DLC ends as there is enough space on the CSS to add 4 more characters after. But oh well.

 

[Xenigma]

Regardless of who the final two characters are, it's just a bummer to think this is it for Ultimate. I get Sakurai and crew not wanting to work on the same game forever, and I'm sure Nintendo stands to make more money from a new game than more DLC. Still, the selfish part of me wants to see this impossible roster keep growing to even greater heights. Chances are we'll never see another Smash game quite like Ultimate, and even if we never get playable Isaac, it's amazing to see it continue to grow every few months with another lovingly crafted DLC pack. I guess there's no ending to DLC that would be truly satisfying, but it doesn't make it hurt any less.

 

[Gioka]

Regardless of who the final two characters are, it's just a bummer to think this is it for Ultimate. I get Sakurai and crew not wanting to work on the same game forever, and I'm sure Nintendo stands to make more money from a new game than more DLC. Still, the selfish part of me wants to see this impossible roster keep growing to even greater heights. Chances are we'll never see another Smash game quite like Ultimate, and even if we never get playable Isaac, it's amazing to see it continue to grow every few months with another lovingly crafted DLC pack. I guess there's no ending to DLC that would be truly satisfying, but it doesn't make it hurt any less.

What makes it weird for me is that if Furukawa is right and Switch is in the middle of its life cycle, it feels odd to go another 3 or 4 years without anything Smash and I don't think they will be working in another Smash game for the Switch, obviously. So a part of me really hopes they announce a third pass or some extra DLC in the next presentation (E3 or at least around E3 if Nintendo decides not to take part on it), but on the other hand, Sakurai seemed really emphatic on the fact that there is only two more announcements left

 

[Nazyrus]

I honestly hope Sakurai's next project is related to Kid Icarus again. Hell give us a remaster or another game like Uprising!

 

[SonicLink125]

What makes it weird for me is that if Furukawa is right and Switch is in the middle of its life cycle, it feels odd to go another 3 or 4 years without anything Smash and I don't think they will be working in another Smash game for the Switch, obviously. So a part of me really hopes they announce a third pass or some extra DLC in the next presentation (E3 or at least around E3 if Nintendo decides not to take part on it), but on the other hand, Sakurai seemed really emphatic on the fact that there is only two more announcements left

There have been many times where Sakurai was "certain" this would be the "last", but then ends up surprising not only us, but himself as well. Honestly, if there is a Pass 3, which I hope there is, I expect it to be revealed after FP10. Just like how "more fighters" were announced after Terry. I can even see them reveal it after FP11. Who knows? I'm prepared if this is the end of the DLC, but still hopeful there will be more. And of course, I'm still hopeful for our Golden Boy to get in, due to some circumstances. Seriously, it would be amazing if both Isaac and Lloyd end up being the last two. Of course, with Isaac, I would be satisfyed with Smash forever.

 

[ZelDan]

I honestly hope Sakurai's next project is related to Kid Icarus again. Hell give us a remaster or another game like Uprising!

yeah, either of those would be great.

Obviously new game would be cooler, but I'd totally be down with kid Icarus Uprising in HD and with better controls (and maybe a small amount of new content).

 

[Nazyrus]

I will just leave my last minute dumb smash theory of the day

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[Gioka]

I will just leave my last minute dumb smash theory of the day

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That would fit well and also keep the second chances theme the pass seems to have, fingers crossed! (I genuinely believe we will get at least one AT upgraded, the question is if it will be Isaac)

 

[DrakeHavok]

I will just leave my last minute dumb smash theory of the day

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I guess you could also add to it by saying that Pyra & Mythra came with Monster Hunters, the parallels being that both series feature enourmous non-human creatures (Monsters and Titans) and small, adorable fuzzball creatures (Palicos and Nopon) that kinda act as their respective series' mascot... might be a bit of a stretch though. And honestly I don't think we should be looking for patterns like that, lest we set ourselves up for disappointment again. points to the rathalos picture

 

[Nazyrus]

I guess you could also add to it by saying that Pyra & Mythra came with Monster Hunters, the parallels being that both series feature enourmous non-human creatures (Monsters and Titans) and small, adorable fuzzball creatures (Palicos and Nopon) that kinda act as their respective series' mascot... might be a bit of a stretch though. And honestly I don't think we should be looking for patterns like that, lest we set ourselves up for disappointment again. points to the rathalos picture

Nah MH was clearly due to the purpose of promoting MH Rise which just happens to release this same month. I don't think there were any other reasons, imo, it was gonna be in this pack no matter what. Same thing for Arthur which is promoting the recent Ghost n Goblins game.

 

[Gioka]

Hey guys you can vote for Golden Usn in this tournament of which franchise should be revived by Nintendo, would be nice if we made it through the first round against Rhythm heavenhttps://mobile.twitter.com/MemCardShow/status/1368398570399748096

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Ooh somebody made an N64 style Isaac

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[Xenigma]

Hey guys you can vote for Golden Usn in this tournament of which franchise should be revived by Nintendo, would be nice if we made it through the first round against Rhythm heavenhttps://mobile.twitter.com/MemCardShow/status/1368398570399748096

My three favorite dormant Nintendo franchises are Golden Sun, F-Zero, and Advance Wars. Can't wait to see Mother win by topping all three of them in a row.

 

[chocolatejr9]

My three favorite dormant Nintendo franchises are Golden Sun, F-Zero, and Advance Wars. Can't wait to see Mother win by topping all three of them in a row.

Yeah, no offense, but what part of "Mother is finished" do people not understand? Unless they think they're willing it into existance or something...

 

[Xenigma]

Yeah, no offense, but what part of "Mother is finished" do people not understand? Unless they think they're willing it into existance or something...

I mean, I get it. Mother 3 still not having an official international release is ridiculous, and I can't blame fans for wanting a new game in a beloved series even if the creators aren't interested. Wanting something doesn't have to be rational: I'd still like to see a new F-Zero, for instance, even though I have no reason to believe a new game would top the stellar GX. Same for Golden Sun, if I'm being honest, given Dark Dawn wasn't as good as the originals. Won't keep me from hoping against hope that they will appear in any given Nintendo Direct.