Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[FlawedAI]

I doubt FlawedAI and Isaac: Venus Adept remember this but they actually liked a post from two years ago of mine where I mentioned how my Isaac dreams are never the cool and extravagant smash trailers. Just the weird stuff like the above lol.

I wish I could remember dreams like that. Most of the time I can only remember vague details (I think the one last night was about tuition? College has been on my mind, after all) but this is on a whole 'nother level.

 

[SharkLord]

I’m usually quite patient when it comes to getting gaming news from Nintendo, but even I feel starved for info now. Especially since e3 was cancelled.

The one positive thing to remember is that Nintendo should be holding an investors meeting sometime in August, and I highly doubt they go to that meeting without some games scheduled for release in the second half of this year. So I feel it’s safe to assume we will be getting a big direct or at the very least some shadow dropped trailers in the next few weeks.

Protip: Take the dates one bit at a time. Add any date you see to the calendar, but don't put too much stock in it unless it actually happens. If there's nothing, default to Tuesday and Thursday, since those were the days we usually get something. If it's not them, move to next week, and then the next, etc. Most of the time it'll be nothing, but it's always good to have a tentative date to look forward to rather than waiting aimlessly with no end in sight.

In other news, Nintendo's doing some maintenance for the eShop on the 27th and August 3rd, and they're holding an investor meeting on the 6th. You don't go into an investor meeting empty-handed unless something is really really bad, so there's most likely something on those dates, or at least those weeks.

 

[Nazyrus]

Protip: Take the dates one bit at a time. Add any date you see to the calendar, but don't put too much stock in it unless it actually happens. If there's nothing, default to Tuesday and Thursday, since those were the days we usually get something. If it's not them, move to next week, and then the next, etc. Most of the time it'll be nothing, but it's always good to have a tentative date to look forward to rather than waiting aimlessly with no end in sight.

In other news, Nintendo's doing some maintenance for the eShop on the 27th and August 3rd, and they're holding an investor meeting on the 6th. You don't go into an investor meeting empty-handed unless something is really really bad, so there's most likely something on those dates, or at least those weeks.

Yep this is gonna be interesting to see how it pans out, they really don't have much time left to start showing stuff, and from what I'm hearing you need to announce stuff 30 days prior at least for pre orders to start working in Japan, or something like that.

 

[ZelDan]

So you're saying that we might not actually have to wait that much longer for some real worthwhile news?

because that sounds pretty good right about now...

 

[Nazyrus]

So you're saying that we might not actually have to wait that much longer for some real worthwhile news?

because that sounds pretty good right about now...

For us that would be great. The real question is: Will Nintendo stop lying / just repeating words to their investors, or actually start showing stuff before they actually start pissing them off and such?
But yeah… honestly this is ridiculous at this point, it's time to stop talking and start showing, Nintendo! Hopefully they don't continue this stupid silence, when other japanese devs are announcing and communicating way more oftenly at this point.

 

[SharkLord]

For us that would be great. The real question is: Will Nintendo stop lying / just repeating words to their investors, or actually start showing stuff before they actually start pissing them off and such?
But yeah… honestly this is ridiculous at this point, it's time to stop talking and start showing, Nintendo! Hopefully they don't continue this stupid silence, when other japanese devs are announcing and communicating way more oftenly at this point.

Something I'd like to point out is that Nintendo's Kyoto-based, which is a very traditionalist region in an already traditionalist country. COVID has provent that Nintendo isn't that good with change, and working from home still has it's issues. There needs to be secrecy to keep family from barging in while you're working, you need to get the computers from the office to your home, it's harder to check for bugs, etc. Besides, COVID affects everyone differently. Even if you'll be compared negatively to others, it doesn't change the fact that some people are luckier than others.

But yeah, some new info would be nice. Thankfully, I have Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin to look forward to, so at least my year isn't completely empty.

 

[SonicLink125]

No one cared who I was until I put the helmet on.

#SmashBros #GoldenSun #FZero pic.twitter.com/vfL4wg77Q5

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) July 24, 2020

Watch out! He now possesses the power of the Golden Sun AND the great moves of Captain Falcon! He comin! lol

Hopefully we’ll be getting news soon. Supposedly there’s some Mario stuff that will release on August 1st:

I find that a funny coincidence that it’s on Golden Sun’s 19th Anniversary. Hehe.

 

[SharkLord]

No one cared who I was until I put the helmet on.

#SmashBros #GoldenSun #FZero pic.twitter.com/vfL4wg77Q5

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) July 24, 2020

Watch out! He now possesses the power of the Golden Sun AND the great moves of Captain Falcon! He comin! lol

Hopefully we’ll be getting news soon. Supposedly there’s some Mario stuff that will release on August 1st:
View attachment 279887
I find that a funny coincidence that it’s on Golden Sun’s 19th Anniversary. Hehe.

Isaac in Mario Golf Switch confirmed?
Anyways, assuming this is a credible source, it could lend some credence to the 27th and 3rd maintenance theories. I'd imagine the 27th would be the Mario Direct, though jury's still out on if we get a general direct or whatever on the 3rd.

 

[NessAtc.]

Licensed variants of products just exist. I have a Mario chess set and a Mario monopoly set on me right now, they're all dime a dozen.

Merch like this releasing at the beginning of the month doesn't really mean anything

 

[Pinguino21v]

The long wait for Smash news is driving me slightly crazy.

To be fair, it's probably not the "Smash news" you are waiting for, it's "Isaac news". Min min is really recent after all. But we would have had confirmation of Isaac inclusion, I wouldn't be as eager to get news. I have a long backlog, I'm not looking after many things, except, you know, Golden Sun stuff (or XCXDE).

 

[Xenigma]

To be fair, it's probably not the "Smash news" you are waiting for, it's "Isaac news". Min min is really recent after all. But we would have had confirmation of Isaac inclusion, I wouldn't be as eager to get news. I have a long backlog, I'm not looking after many things, except, you know, Golden Sun stuff (or XCXDE).

I mean, yes, I'm unusually keen on Smash news due to the ongoing possibility of Isaac DLC. However, to say that Min Min is really recent isn't exactly fair either. Min Min's reveal was over a month ago, June 22nd, and we've known about an ARMS character since the Direct Mini on March 26th, nearly four months ago. Further, Byleth's reveal was January 16th, so in the half a year since FP1 finished, we've learned of exactly one out of six FP2 characters. Granted, FP2 has a very long release window of virtually two full years (ending December 31st, 2021), but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that we are overdue for Smash news at this point, especially considering Nintendo's normal summer reveals are still MIA while both Sony and Microsoft have both had their E3-style next-gen showcases.

 

[TempestSurge]

I wish I could remember dreams like that. Most of the time I can only remember vague details (I think the one last night was about tuition? College has been on my mind, after all) but this is on a whole 'nother level.

That's actually the first in a long while I've remembered a dream. More often than not, I fall alsleep, nothingness, and wake up. I kind of hope that dream is just a sign of things to come.

Of course doubt there will be a Golden Sun themed Switch anytime soon lol. But I totally hope there's some deluxe/special edition/pre order bonus whatever that gets announced so I can just throw money at Nintendo for Golden Sun's return.

As for the Mario game I'm hoping 3D world gets a port since my Wii U gamepad busted so I never really got to complete it. Want Xenoblade X port for the same reason. Dragon Quest 11 is the last game I've bought on my Switch. Been more glued to trying to finish the massive backlog on my 3DS lol.

 

[jweb23]

Of course doubt there will be a Golden Sun themed Switch anytime soon lol. But I totally hope there's some deluxe/special edition/pre order bonus whatever that gets announced so I can just throw money at Nintendo for Golden Sun's return.

I mean, if I was in charge of Nintendo and it just so happened that a new or remaster of Golden Sun was happening... I would definitely release two new joycon sets. One set having the colors of the Venus and Mars Djinns for either joycon and the other set having the colors of the Jupiter and Mercury Djinns.

I assume joycon colors sell very well and I think it would be smart of them to do that to maximize profits.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay.

Can someone compile all the evidence of a new Golden Sun title for me?

 

[Xenigma]

I mean, if I was in charge of Nintendo and it just so happened that a new or remaster of Golden Sun was happening... I would definitely release two new joycon sets. One set having the colors of the Venus and Mars Djinns for either joycon and the other set having the colors of the Jupiter and Mercury Djinns.

I assume joycon colors sell very well and I think it would be smart of them to do that to maximize profits.

I don't think they'd even do special Joy-Cons, sadly. A quick look at official Joy-Con releases suggests that they don't do those very often, and when they do, it's usually either lightly themed (Splatoon 2 Pink and Green, Mario Red, Luigi Green) or are part of a special Switch (Animal Crossing, Pokemon Let's Go, Smash, Dragon Quest XI). There have been a number of special edition Switches, but they appear to be reserved for games expected to be slam dunk successes. As amazing as I think a Golden Sun revival would be, if the likes of Fire Emblem and Xenoblade Chronicles aren't getting special hardware yet, maybe best not to get too ahead of ourselves.

EDIT: Swamp Sensei , here's a list that was shared here earlier. Some of that can probably be explained with more/better detail, such as the trademarks and Camelot's unusual gap in releases since Aces, but gives you a gist of the current situation.

 

[jweb23]

I don't think they'd even do special Joy-Cons, sadly. A quick look at official Joy-Con releases suggests that they don't do those very often, and when they do, it's usually either lightly themed (Splatoon 2 Pink and Green, Mario Red, Luigi Green) or are part of a special Switch (Animal Crossing, Pokemon Let's Go, Smash, Dragon Quest XI). There have been a number of special edition Switches, but they appear to be reserved for games expected to be slam dunk successes. As amazing as I think a Golden Sun revival would be, if the likes of Fire Emblem and Xenoblade Chronicles aren't getting special hardware yet, maybe best not to get too ahead of ourselves.

I’m definitely not expecting anything special, assuming all these coincidences are leading to a new GS game.

However, as a fan of Xenoblade, Fire Emblem and Golden Sun... I kind of disagree with the last part of your post. Xeno and FE don’t really have dual color themes or color themes that are multiples of 2. The only real option you have for joycons from those series are special patterns/designs on the joycons. Golden Sun on the other hand doesn’t need a special design as they would just have to use new colors. There are 4 Djinn each with a distinct color. So to the average fan, they wouldn’t know the joycons are modeled after the Djinn colors, they would just think there are new joycon colors. That’s why to me, this idea works way better with Golden Sun than it would with Xeno and FE.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

If Nintendo won't do any special edition Golden Sun controllers or anything like that best hope is to nab some custom controllers which some fans would make

 

[SonicLink125]

Man, I would buy a Golden Sun Switch Edition if they make one. Just about any official GS mercy they make will be a instant buy from me.

 

[THE 6r]

Man, I would buy a Golden Sun Switch Edition if they make one. Just about any official GS mercy they make will be a instant buy from me.

Same, it's pretty much the only game I would instantly buy on sight currently.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Okay.

Can someone compile all the evidence of a new Golden Sun title for me?

I compiled a document on all the evidence we have with some help with the Angara Continent Discord Server: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fJDh4wuSFxKNVUOUGnmqOE4NVSFdQToyPjTXPk6eHM8/edit?usp=sharing

You can comment on it if you like btw.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I compiled a document on all the evidence we have with some help with the Angara Continent Discord Server: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fJDh4wuSFxKNVUOUGnmqOE4NVSFdQToyPjTXPk6eHM8/edit?usp=sharing

You can comment on it if you like btw.

Well.

I'm convinced.

I hope you guys are right.

 

[TempestSurge]

Well.

I'm convinced.

I hope you guys are right.

Yeah kind of crazy, it almost seems too good to be true lol. But this also feels like the time where a lot of series are coming back. Most surprising and hype for me is Rune Factory series developers going from bankrupt to getting a remaster of 4 and a new release in 5 and I recently learned that Fable is getting a new title since it's last game in 2010. It was getting consistent releases of 2-3 years between the first three entries and then just stopped. Then Xbox drops that there will be a new entry. My bro almost couldn't believe it when I told him. We had given up, even talked a few weeks ago how much it sucks that this series seemed to be done.

Man I swear I'm going to go crazy if Nintendo doesn't start spilling the beans! Especially if they're just sitting on a Golden Sun announcement!

 

[Peeton]

Off topic, but if they don’t add Issac because he’s an assist trophy (they totally can I mean look at chrom) I think it’d cool if Mathew was added! I like his design better than Issac’s. But if they added adult Issac, then I’d be over the moon honestly

 

[Skyblade12]

I compiled a document on all the evidence we have with some help with the Angara Continent Discord Server: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fJDh4wuSFxKNVUOUGnmqOE4NVSFdQToyPjTXPk6eHM8/edit?usp=sharing

You can comment on it if you like btw.

It is perhaps worth noting that the original Golden Sun games used the engine from the GBA game Mario Tennis Power Tour, and that the Mario Tennis ACES engine could similarly be easily converted into a Golden Sun engine.

https://twitter.com/IsaacAdepts/status/1283394621649883137?s=20

 

[Kalaam]

That'd be a fun twist.

 

[pupNapoleon]

What would you say is the 'must have' for Isaac to feel like Isaac, should be be included?

For me, there are three:

1- Giant Hand (unique gimmick could be all utilized by his throw trigger)
2- Some basic Earth magic (though a growth vine that can act as an on stage ladder would be swell)
3- Djinn summons

 

[Skyblade12]

What would you say is the 'must have' for Isaac to feel like Isaac, should be be included?

For me, there are three:

1- Giant Hand (unique gimmick could be all utilized by his throw trigger)
2- Some basic Earth magic (though a growth vine that can act as an on stage ladder would be swell)
3- Djinn summons

Judgement as a Final Smash.

Pretty much everything else is negotiable. He has so much potential that there's no way to fit in everything, and I can build solid movesets around basically any of his abilities, even excluding some that would seem super important.

But his Final Smash should be Judgement.

 

[Kalaam]

Hand psynergy as grabs is a perfect fit.
Venus psynergy.
Djinn system in some form.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Capitalise on the fact that his main field of psynergy is Venus based and include some of the well known psynergy like Ragnarok and Gaia. Try to implement djinn in some fashion and make his final smash utilise a summon most likely Judgement. The hand/utility psynergy would be good for one special and his grabs/throws but don't go overboard with them

 

[TempestSurge]

Off topic, but if they don’t add Issac because he’s an assist trophy (they totally can I mean look at chrom) I think it’d cool if Mathew was added! I like his design better than Issac’s. But if they added adult Issac, then I’d be over the moon honestly

I also find Matthew's jacket, jeans, and boots combo a bit more aesthetically pleasing to look at though Isaac definitely wears the scarf in a cooler position compared to Matthew. Also seems kind of dangerous for Matthew to wear it that way, like it could easily get snagged on something.

 

[SonicLink125]

"Fist of the Golden Sun" vs "Falcon Punch"! What happens when these two forces collide?
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #FZero #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/fFvECdaN8s

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) July 25, 2020

Do you think the universe would implode if these two powers collided? lol

What would you say is the 'must have' for Isaac to feel like Isaac, should be be included?

For me, there are three:

1- Giant Hand (unique gimmick could be all utilized by his throw trigger)
2- Some basic Earth magic (though a growth vine that can act as an on stage ladder would be swell)
3- Djinn summons

Earthbending is a must have for Isaac! We don’t have any fighter that fights based on earth attacks alone. Utility Psynergy would also be fun to have. Could be creative too like “Slap” as a FAir or something or a barrage of “Force” attacks as his multi jab. Judgement as his Final Smash. He’d use a giant psynergy hand to “move” people into a cutscene for it if they get touched. Djinn (Especially Flint) would be cool if implemented, but I’d also hope they appear in a Taunt.
There’s so much to work with for Isaac. It’s crazy!

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

What would you say is the 'must have' for Isaac to feel like Isaac, should be be included?

For me, there are three:

1- Giant Hand (unique gimmick could be all utilized by his throw trigger)
2- Some basic Earth magic (though a growth vine that can act as an on stage ladder would be swell)
3- Djinn summons

I mean at least two of those but honestly I think some more advanced earth psynergy would go a long way. I can easily see Quake, Spire, Growth. But I would love to see some Grand Gaia and Ragnarok in there somehow. Not necessarily Final Smash, I hope they can be super specials like Terry upon certain conditions, maybe a Djinn gimmick.

The hands are the grabs and ledge recovery, or they might be used for the smash attacks but I'd rather see spells.

I see Djinn being a part of his kit management as a resource to get stronger spells at the cost of losing speed and attack. I don't see them using summons because they're too big for smash. Clouds were stage only.

I see Judgement as a Final Smash though, if not Ragnarok.

 

[Cadillac]

The only thing I need:
Move as the side b
Haha funny hand go (Instert Psynergy sound)

 

[NessAtc.]

Grand Gaia is one of the psynergy used in promo art for Isaac, so I could easily see that making it in, especially considering it somewhat has a basis already in palutena's up smash

Cutting Edge is another possibility, that can use blade beam as a basis

 

[Pinguino21v]

Isaac needs earth psynergy. I feel that djinns are optional, but he needs earthquakes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mostly want him to represent his Venus Psynergy. Ragnarok for Neutral B, or F Smash (which can also be his leaping sword attack) Move for Side B, but it's a command grab that makes you able to either push people away, or grab and toss with Pound or throw upwards with Lift. Down B could be anything, Spire, Gaia, Earthquake, Nettle, doesn't matter too much. Up B I think Hover or maybe a Vine Ladder could work ? Retreat?

I'm not sure how they could implement Djinn into his moveset. I think a Djinni combined attack , ending with a Judgement Summon would be ideal. Not sure where else it could fit without Isaac becoming too much of a Djinn gimmick driven character... Then again, this is what Sakurai has been doing with the DLC characters in Ultimate so far.

Psynergy could also be represented in Smash attacks. U Smash could be Spire, F Smash the sword leap or Ragnarok, and D Smash Earthquake, which could kind of work like DK's Down B.

I don't expect Isaac to be a fast character, or very good at jumping, probably also a fast faller with low traction. Not sure how heavy he should be, but am guessing around Link's weight?

 

[SharkLord]

What would you say is the 'must have' for Isaac to feel like Isaac, should be be included?

For me, there are three:

1- Giant Hand (unique gimmick could be all utilized by his throw trigger)
2- Some basic Earth magic (though a growth vine that can act as an on stage ladder would be swell)
3- Djinn summons

I'm not as big a Golden Sun fan as most people here, but from what I can gather, Move and Gaia are his signature moves and are a must. Venus Psynergy is a guarantee as well; That's literally the entire spell system, right?
Djinn summons would be cool, but I don't know enough about the series to implement it properly. Would it be closer to Cloud's Limit Break, where his specials are buffed, a single, limited-use move like Wonderwing, or their own separate things like Terry's Super Specials?
Judgement is definitely his Final Smash. The most popular Summon (I think), and it's already a cinematic, so it wouldn't feel forced and lazy.

 

[NessAtc.]

It'd probably be closer to limit, but instead of charging it up by giving or taking damage, it's timed

probably a mix between limit and monado arts

 

[TempestSurge]

It is perhaps worth noting that the original Golden Sun games used the engine from the GBA game Mario Tennis Power Tour, and that the Mario Tennis ACES engine could similarly be easily converted into a Golden Sun engine.

https://twitter.com/IsaacAdepts/status/1283394621649883137?s=20
View attachment 280070View attachment 280071

Actually that just reminded me that the Takakashi Brothers did bring up Golden Sun similarities in a Mario Tennis Aces interview. Funny there's actually more mentions than I remembered so I'll just put the link to the interview vs copy/pasting walls of text. Also got to love how much thought and depth they go into when it came to shaping the story in Aces and even mentions how writing some scenarios for rpgs helped with that. Again, I'll be so gutted to find out they in fact haven't really been brainstorming some story plots for Golden Sun all these years.

https://nintendoeverything.com/mari...de-how-new-characters-were-decided-name-more/

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I feel like the essentials for it to feel like Isaac, in order of importance. (except the first two because I think they're equally important, although I might give the edge to the hand psynergy just because it feels more uniquely "Golden Sun" than earth powers do)

Hand/Utility Psynergy (specifically Move and then maybe some other hand psynergy involved in throws)
Earth Psynergy (Earthquakes, spires and vines in particular)
-----------
Djinn (I think having a Djinn mechanic would be preferable to not having one, but I don't think it's as vital as the first two I mentioned)
-----------
Unleash (The thing is, Isaac is probably going to be swinging a sword at some point, so I'd like them to include the possibility for critical hits/Unleash attacks to add a bit of flare to his sword attacks)

As for his final smash. Realistically it's Judgement......but in an ideal world I'd love for his final smash to be attached to a djinn mechanic that let Isaac summon Venus, Ramses, Cybele or Judgement depending on how many Venus djinn he had set.