Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[NessAtc.]

Why is it something to consider? Because it could happen? Countless things with some logical grounding could happen, that all affect different characters in different ways, but we can't just pick and choose the unproven hypotheticals we want to mean something.

If and when it happens, it'll shift thinking. Until then, there's as much logic for believing it's important as there is for any given theory devoid of evidence. Actually not just devoid of evidence, but evidence to the contrary.

This isn't some unproven hypothetical at all. It's basic logic. Spring Man having resources to build off of in the game was 100% a point in favour of him, but since the director wanted Min Min, that outweighed the decision. My argument is that this has an effect on the consideration. Not a major effect, not the sole defining effect, just *an* effect. There's plenty of other reasons why they would pick Isaac over the other GS characters, but that's only one of them.

 

[SPEN18]

Fair enough I suppose. I'd heard he'd scored high, is there any idea how high exactly? My only argument regarding Byleth is, at the very least, they were a pretty clear advertisement for Three Houses, that series's most popular game to date with TONS of fans. Nintendo likely cares far more about that THAT than whether or not fans want swordies. Does Isaac have that going for him, does Sakurai even care about him?

According to pretty much every fan poll, Isaac did extremely well, perhaps just as well as K. Rool and Banjo. But everybody seems to have a different opinion on the validity/accuracy of those polls.

Regardless, I think people might be severely underestimating how much the ballot results still matter and also underestimating how well Isaac may have done in that department. Clearly the ballot hasn't mattered significantly for every DLC choice; in fact, for most of them it seems to have been largely ignored. But we could still get one or two more characters directly related to it, as indicated by Banjo.

And no, we don't know how Sakurai feels about Isaac and Golden Sun. He's never really said anything specifically about them (that we know about).

Lastly, Hero was also a sword user. I don't see any particularly strong evidence showing that Sakurai cares about characters using swords.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

There's something I'm surprised nobody has talked about yet in here, ARMS had no music in Ultimate until now, and Spring Man became an AT specifically because of time constraints (same reason Rex is a Mii costume). Maybe they had planned ARMS to be DLC from the time they realized they had no time for a full Fighter.

 

[N3ON]

This isn't some unproven hypothetical at all. It's basic logic. Spring Man having resources to build off of in the game was 100% a point in favour of him, but since the director wanted Min Min, that outweighed the decision. My argument is that this has an effect on the consideration. Not a major effect, not the sole defining effect, just *an* effect. There's plenty of other reasons why they would pick Isaac over the other GS characters, but that's only one of them.

And the basis of that logic is in the implication that Nintendo would want to look for cost-saving measures or shortcuts, which no longer becomes logical when everything so far, from the seven previous character's dearth of pre-existing assets, to each getting a full, high-budget trailer and follow-up presentation (barring PP), to the fact that Nintendo is licensing things like Fallout and Assassin's Creed just for costumes indicate that budgeting is a non-issue, and shortcuts aren't taken.

In theory, there is logic to support characters with existing assets being more appealing to add due to the reduced workload (not reduced by very much, fwiw), but in practice, that factor hasn't mattered one perceptible iota. And what happens in practice is the reality of the situation.

In theory, it would be easier and cheaper to add only first-party characters. There's logic to it. In theory, it would be easier and cheaper to not have them all come with as much content as they do. Does that mean we should only expect first-parties from now on, despite the precedent of third-parties?

So your logic is only logical when you outright ignore everything that DLC has been so far. Which in itself, isn't logical.

 

[FlawedAI]

There's something I'm surprised nobody has talked about yet in here, ARMS had no music in Ultimate until now, and Spring Man became an AT specifically because of time constraints (same reason Rex is a Mii costume). Maybe they had planned ARMS to be DLC from the time they realized they had no time for a full Fighter.

I personally doubt it, it's known Sakurai doesn't like cutting content to save it for DLC. That said, even if it were true, I don't think it would apply to GS because it would be a little suspicious to have Isaac as an Assist and many Spirits only to not have the two music tracks previously used for the series.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There's something I'm surprised nobody has talked about yet in here, ARMS had no music in Ultimate until now, and Spring Man became an AT specifically because of time constraints (same reason Rex is a Mii costume). Maybe they had planned ARMS to be DLC from the time they realized they had no time for a full Fighter.

Would that mean the plan was always to give Spring Man consolation prizes and nothing more? His fans aren't gonna take that lightly.

 

[Dorayaki]

You've missed my point about budget. My point was that it would be cheaper to upgrade Assists because some assets have already been made. And I never said promoting NPCs would be easy, I just said it would be easier than starting from scratch.

I think what my overall point is that if Nintendo wants a character to be added to Smash Bros, Sakurai wouldn't be held back by a decision made three years ago to make them an NPC for the base game, especially if he gets a chance to please fans, which is his stated goal.

I think within exist franchises, Waluigi vs plant piranha definitely fits in the contradiction. Not only Waluigi is a relatively better option but he can save money based on your idea.

However with that said, I think the general issue would be more like Nintendo dont try to promote more past NPCs when Smash 5 was still in plan if saving budget is a persuasive point. No offense to fans of current fighters, but I do think Isaac deserves a slot in the base game.

I wouldn't think the DLCs should be a second chance redemption thing, since that opportunity is supposed to be open to unused characters outside the game too. It's be like saying the ARMS DLC should be for Spring Man redemption but not for Ribbon Girl or Ninjara.

I would just think Nintendo didn't make a considerate plan or could had saved the budget for more appropriate use. Even for Golden Sun fans, I would still think Nintendo owes Jenna an AT slot if Issac really occupies both AT and fighter slots.

Dorayaki, if you look at every instance that goes against your point as exeptions then debate is impossible. You are just being stubborn and rejecting all arguments because you just (for some reason) refuse to consider promotion a possibility.

I honestly think about other possibilities above, so I disagree. I'm actually supportive of Isaac' s inclusion as a fighter, just I usually don't shuffle the topics in a discussion.

I feel it in my bones that at least one of the most requested characters, no matter what situation they find themselves in with Mii Costumes, Spirits, Assist Trophies, third parties - one of them is getting in undoubtedly. This pass is getting at least one Banjo, I'm sure of it, and it won't be a matter of the ""rules"" or the cost.

The thing that I fear is that this character is likely going to be Waluigi, because of his far more... general appeal. It helps that he's part of Mario, sure, but I think the thing that's going to sell it to whoever is making these decisions is who is most likely to appeal to the most people. Waluigi is kind of a meme, but it's a big Smash meme, and even if it is a meme it is a beloved one, and one that would see a lot of fans happy much like Banjo had.

How many Isaac fans are there? I know he's ranked high on fan polls, but... that high? Every time I see people list the top fan requested characters Isaac is mentioned maybe 30-40% of the time. It doesn't help that he's got the swordie aesthetic, after fan outcry about Byleth, though I'm pretty sure the second wave was already chosen before that reveal, hopefully they didn't choose a swordie then backtrack and change it after Byleth or anything. Doubtful, but you never know!

Don't get me wrong, I think things are looking up, up, and up for Isaac, and I still have hope! I just question if he has the oomph among the fan base that others have to have been noticed by Nintendo. I think the video of fans booing his Assist Trophy reveal definitely helped, but...

To be fair, Issac is still more deserving than Byleth and Waluigi as new series rep. For Waluigi specifically, his direct issue is still when he lost to some current Mario fighters that were less requested.

 

[Kalaam]

Also, for the person asking earlier. Yes there is heavy speculation about a new GS. Trademarks by Nintendo have been filed left and right, and more and more people are getting loud about Golden Sun.

 

[N3ON]

They actually did this with the Mii costume.

The AT's moves, on the other hand are likely to be scrapped. They do not look like fighter moves at all, and an idea I had where they'd be turned into Isaac's throws (with the grab utilizing Catch Psynergy) would involve them being heavily toned down.

That's true, but it's not like a faceless model with Mii proportions wouldn't itself need revision.

 

[Dorayaki]

There's something I'm surprised nobody has talked about yet in here, ARMS had no music in Ultimate until now, and Spring Man became an AT specifically because of time constraints (same reason Rex is a Mii costume). Maybe they had planned ARMS to be DLC from the time they realized they had no time for a full Fighter.

With that logic that sounds like Sakurai should had picked Min Min as an AT so that they can wait for a chance to promote her within same game. I mean, it's nice they didn't because Spring Man wouldn't had even been an AT.

For Golden Sun, I don't know. Not sure about Jenna but I kinda hopes that they try Matthew for the third round of ATs.

 

[FlawedAI]

With That logic that sounds like Sakurai should had picked Min Min as an AT so that they can wait for a chance to promote her within same game. I mean, it's nice they didn't because Spring Man wouldn't had even been an AT.

For Golden Sun, I don't know. Not sure about Jenna but I kinda hopes that they try Matthew for the third round of ATs.

But what we're saying is that they don't decide ATs based on who they could upgrade in DLC. They decide who will be an Assist for the base game, then pick DLC later on, after everything for the base game has been decided. I'd love to have a Jenna Assist Trophy, but they selected Isaac because he was the main character of the franchise and that's what made sense at the time.

Characters are selected for DLC based on their own merits alone. Outside circumstances like current role in Ultimate are not considered. If Isaac were to get in, it wouldn't be because Sakurai wanted to upgrade an Assist Trophy, it would be because Sakurai/Nintendo wanted to add Isaac.

 

[Dorayaki]

But what we're saying is that they don't decide ATs based on who they could upgrade in DLC. They decide who will be an Assist for the base game, then pick DLC later on, after everything for the base game has been decided. I'd love to have a Jenna Assist Trophy, but they selected Isaac because he was the main character of the franchise and that's what made sense at the time.

Characters are selected for DLC based on their own merits alone. Outside circumstances like current role in Ultimate are not considered. If Isaac were to get in, it wouldn't be because Sakurai wanted to upgrade an Assist Trophy, it would be because Sakurai/Nintendo wanted to add Isaac.

I think there is a contradiction. Are protagonosts of franchises really cut for the ATs? Or some other supportive characters or enemies fit better? I do want Issac to follow the way Mac got promotion, but might wonder if he really needs two rounds of AT experience since the start.

It would be like if Xenoblade didn't get a slot, Shulk should had been the AT instead of Riki.

 

[NessAtc.]

And the basis of that logic is in the implication that Nintendo would want to look for cost-saving measures or shortcuts, which no longer becomes logical when everything so far, from the seven previous character's dearth of pre-existing assets, to each getting a full, high-budget trailer and follow-up presentation (barring PP), to the fact that Nintendo is licensing things like Fallout and Assassin's Creed just for costumes indicate that budgeting is a non-issue, and shortcuts aren't taken.

In theory, there is logic to support characters with existing assets being more appealing to add due to the reduced workload (not reduced by very much, fwiw), but in practice, that factor hasn't mattered one perceptible iota. And what happens in practice is the reality of the situation.

In theory, it would be easier and cheaper to add only first-party characters. There's logic to it. In theory, it would be easier and cheaper to not have them all come with as much content as they do. Does that mean we should only expect first-parties from now on, despite the precedent of third-parties?

So your logic is only logical when you outright ignore everything that DLC has been so far. Which in itself, isn't logical.

Again, I feel like you are completely missing my point. I'm suggesting this against the few competitors Isaac has within his own series, not other series that might get put in instead. OF COURSE it's irrelevant when you compare it to whether they do a Golden Sun character or if they did some random other third party not in Smash, because everything gets picked on its own merits. It's when that decision to make a Golden Sun character gets made that this becomes a legitimate consideration, alongside Isaac's overall iconicness to the franchise compared to Felix or Matthew. Ergo, it's a consideration. A small one, but still one.

Also, what "precedent" of third parties? The last one we got was Terry, after that we got Byleth and Min Min. What, you think they're going to just suddenly be like "that was a break, now to get to more licensing done!"

The idea of a "precedent" of third parties in itself is just stupid, since everything gets picked based on its own merits. Terry wasn't picked because he was a third party, he was picked because Sakurai wanted an SNK character in. Banjo wasn't picked because he was a third party, he was picked because of fan demand. Joker wasn't picked because he was a third party, he was picked because Persona 5 was the hot new **** around. And so on and so forth.

Don't talk to me about making up "precedent" when I'm not at all and you clearly are.

 

[FlawedAI]

I think there is a contradiction. Are protagonosts of franchises really cut for the ATs? Or some other supportive characters or enemies fit better? I do want Issac to follow the way Mac got promotion, but might wonder if he really needs two rounds of AT experience since the start.

It would be like if Xenoblade didn't get a slot, Shulk should had been the AT instead of Riki.

Well, I agree that protagonists of series and characters that could work as fighters shouldn't be used for Assists, but I'm not sure what "contradiction" you're seeing. And what on earth do you mean by "two rounds of AT experience?" It's clear that the devs don't consider things like that, not sure why you are.

 

[TempestSurge]

Well, I agree that protagonists of series and characters that could work as fighters shouldn't be used for Assists, but I'm not sure what "contradiction" you're seeing. And what on earth do you mean by "two rounds of AT experience?" It's clear that the devs don't consider things like that, not sure why you are.

When we think about it Sakurai does have a tendency to make protagonists the face of the assist when there's not a representing playable rep. Little Mac, Isaac, Saki, Springman, Yuri etc to name a few. If Shulk wasn't made playable from the get get go in 4, I'm sure Sakurai would have made him the face of the assist to rep the series as well.

 

[NessAtc.]

When we think about it Sakurai does have a tendency to make protagonists the face of the assist when there's not a representing playable rep. Little Mac, Isaac, Saki, Springman, Yuri etc to name a few. If Shulk wasn't made playable from the get get go in 4, I'm sure Sakurai would have made him the face of the assist to rep the series as well.

Yeah, but I don't see how that should disinclude said protagonist from being DLC. If the AT was chosen for a specific reason, in most cases that reason should also apply to the fighter picked to rep the series after the fact. Min Min is an exception to this as a result of being a creator darling.

 

[amageish]

I don't see how one can argue Min Min is anything but a good sign for Isaac. Base-game NPCs are definitely possible for upgrades. Yes, the spirit Min Min got over the assist trophy Spring Man, but the ARMS community has changed since 2017.

If Golden Sun had an official contest for most popular character which Isaac lost and also the Takahashis regularly said that the secondary character who won that contest was a personal favourite of theirs and Golden Sun was a game in a genre where you can pick whichever characters you want to play as at any point, then I'd be concerned. None of that has happened though! Isaac's in a fine place to get in.

I also don't see much point in squabbling over how much hope one should limit themselves to having? Maybe my PoV is slanted by how I almost exclusively support longshots, but it seems much more fun to discuss how Isaac would be implemented and potential content (especially in light of how Min Min's being handled with her spirit board, which has interesting implications for future characters from franchises with pre-existing spirits) then debate how much him being an AT would/wouldn't impact the decision to include/exclude him...

Also, hi, I support Isaac, you can put me on the supporter list, I tend to avoid more popular support threads so I haven't posted here, etc. etc...

 

[StrawHatX]

I think you guys make a great point about Sakurai not mentioning anything about Spring Man’s AT status preventing him from being the ARMS rep, because I feel like that would be a very Sakurai thing to say if it was true.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I feel like if the AT thing really was a problem it would've been mentioned with Spring-Man, that was the core setback that fans were placing against him before the presentation and Sakurai didn't mention it. I really got the impression that he hardly cares about that being a barrier and if he feels the need to promote any AT character he'd take it without hesitation

 

[Nazyrus]

I feel like if the AT thing really was a problem it would've been mentioned with Spring-Man, that was the core setback that fans were placing against him before the presentation and Sakurai didn't mention it. I really got the impression that he hardly cares about that being a barrier and if he feels the need to promote any AT character he'd take it without hesitation

Pretty much. I'm honestly surprised that this has to be brought up all the time on a daily basis now. Some people really are coming here, forcing themselves to ignore such an important detail about how all this just transcended with Min Min's presentation. People should just accept that it's possible, an upgrade is an upgrade no matter the kind, specially when we're talking about base game content, it's definitely possible.

For all we know, they did a lot of compensation during base content with characters that clearly had hard pushes behind them for YEARS, because they couldn't please everybody at the same time back then, due to time and work limitations obviously, and of course, DLC pass 1 already was decided back then, so there was no oportunities for upgrades then. But since Pass 2 became a reality, they saw the benefits of bringing franchises, like ARMS, back as a possibility to have a fighter. That's most likely why I think they upped their game from 1 or 2 more DLC fighters to a whole pass + even an extra fighter, making a total of six. That's all it matters, that we have Nintendo wanting to please fans again. Hell, they worded this pass as "more oportunitites to please fans".

Now, not directing this last paragraph here to anyone in specific, this is more of a just general reminder for everyone… can we drop the whole precedent bs AGAIN please? I say again, because this has been touched before a few times already and we agreed it's a pointless debate, and now? it's even WAY more pointless, based on how this game continues to bring more and more and that just means there continues to be chances for things to happen. Let's drop the whole precedent thing already. This game is STILL getting content support via DLC, a character that we want upgraded from base game has more than enough chances to get upgraded if Nintendo simply wants to make it happen. There is literally no rule or belief preventing it from happening, unless they say so themselves, and so far, they haven't, in fact everything that was said and HOW it was worded in Min min's presentation works only in our favor. Simple as that.

 

[SharkLord]

What do you think the base game Spirit/DLC Spirit ratio would be? While there's a fair bit of potential new Spirits to take from, the amount of Golden Sun Spirits is bigger than both that of ARMS and XC2, and even if we remove Isaac's Spirit, there's still six left to contend with. seven if Dark Dawn Isaac is considered separate. That's almost enough to fill an entire page of a Spirit Board. Do you think we'll get all of them, or would some be dropped?
It should also be considered that a lot of them use Isaac's Assist, which would most likely be replaced with Isaac as a fighter with the DLC, so even if they're old Spirits, the battle's still changed.

 

[SonicLink125]

What do you think the base game Spirit/DLC Spirit ratio would be? While there's a fair bit of potential new Spirits to take from, the amount of Golden Sun Spirits is bigger than both that of ARMS and XC2, and even if we remove Isaac's Spirit, there's still six left to contend with. seven if Dark Dawn Isaac is considered separate. That's almost enough to fill an entire page of a Spirit Board. Do you think we'll get all of them, or would some be dropped?
It should also be considered that a lot of them use Isaac's Assist, which would most likely be replaced with Isaac as a fighter with the DLC, so even if they're old Spirits, the battle's still changed.

I’m pretty sure we would get new ones that are strangely missing at the moment like Sheba, Piers, Saturos, Menardi, Karst, Agato, Kraden, Matthew’s full team, etc.
There are only two that use AT Isaac. Isaac (of course lol) and Jenna. Honestly, you don’t need to remove AT Isaac from those battles at all. In the Isaac Spirit Battle, it uses Mii Isaac at the end that can be replaced with playable Isaac. Not that difficult.

 

[jweb23]

It's been a long time since I posted here but just as I foolishly had hope after K Rool's reveal...I once again foolishly have some hope after Min Min, lol. It's good to see some of the usual posters from back then still here and we have some new faces! I hope you all are doing well and staying safe.

Anyways, I wanted to give my two cents on this situation. NEVER pay attention to "fan rules/theories" as there are no fans who have knowledge of how Sakurai picks characters. Not even Sakurai truly knows what he wants as he has changed his mind on characters before, the most noticable being our favorite purple dragon Ridley.

Also, speaking on Ridley, don't bother paying attention to or arguing with detractors/gate keepers. Someone on twitter was literally spamming one of Sakurai's old Mii Verse posts back before Smash 4 launched about Waluigi not being playable because he was an assist trophy and somehow that means no assist will get an upgrade. What that idiot failed to realize is that Sakurai made a post about Ridley on Mii Verse before Smash 4 launched too, it was of course about how Sakurai can't see Ridley ever being playable because he's too BIG. I say all of this to tell you guys to never give up hope for Isaac!

 

[Pinguino21v]

There's something I'm surprised nobody has talked about yet in here, ARMS had no music in Ultimate until now

Yes, and that's why I'm slightly doubtful on Rex' chances. I hope, if Xenoblade get another rep, it will be Elma. XCX doesn't have a single music, despite being older than XC2, that is both weird and criminal. And Elma is badass.

 

[Dorayaki]

Well, I agree that protagonists of series and characters that could work as fighters shouldn't be used for Assists, but I'm not sure what "contradiction" you're seeing. And what on earth do you mean by "two rounds of AT experience?" It's clear that the devs don't consider things like that, not sure why you are.

Following what said, it could be wise to avoid using protagonist from two round of AT when it could be a classic mascot or enemy IMO. In the case of Min Min / Spring Man, it feels like they are not bothered since they have multiple options on hand that ensures the chance of "character being both NPC and PC" is zero. Fire Emblem is also a case where ATs and fighters could all be protagonists from different gens.

I get that many of the current ATs are series protagonists, and we'd not know if that is a direct deconfirmation of whole franchises. Yuri, if he follows the case of Lyn and Spring Man, it doesnt feel like his franchise can easily nominate other proper candidates people like. As for Golden Sun, not sure if Matthew is an acceptable choice of first GS fighter at this point.

 

[Kalaam]

Arms only had an AT and then got a fighter, how is that not proof that an AT doesn't decomfirm a serie. Man, you are way too negative.

 

[Ura]

Nazyrus You mentioned before that one of your contacts said GS 1 & 2 Remaster was a thing that's happening. How confident are you in this source and how confident is your source about this rumor?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I personally doubt it, it's known Sakurai doesn't like cutting content to save it for DLC. That said, even if it were true, I don't think it would apply to GS because it would be a little suspicious to have Isaac as an Assist and many Spirits only to not have the two music tracks previously used for the series.

As far as I know, Heihachi was the only character cut or close to consider being DLC that almost made it into Smash 4. Sakurai decided not to put him in at the time due to his complicated fighting game moveset. Whether he was strongly considered or cut remains a mystery though I think.

 

[Dukemon102]

I don't think the assist trophy existing in the base game is a nuisance for Isaac at all. I think that basically everything in the base game isn't an argument to disqualify characters, since enough time has passed (Including the Rex costume since that was a DLC at launch basically).

Now, it we get Mii Costumes of Golden Sun characters without Isaac getting in, that would be the Smash 4's K. Rool moment and I'm dreading for that to happen.

 

[NessAtc.]

I don't think the assist trophy existing in the base game is a nuisance for Isaac at all. I think that basically everything in the base game isn't an argument to disqualify characters, since enough time has passed (Including the Rex costume since that was a DLC at launch basically).

Now, it we get Mii Costumes of Golden Sun characters without Isaac getting in, that would be the Smash 4's K. Rool moment and I'm dreading for that to happen.

that won't happen even if Isaac doesn't get in. They'd only do GS costumes with a GS character, since the characters aside from Isaac aren't noteworthy enough to just do on their own

> Following what said, it could be wise to avoid using protagonist from two round of AT when it could be a classic mascot or enemy IMO. In the case of Min Min / Spring Man, it feels like they are not bothered since they have multiple options on hand that ensures the chance of "character being both NPC and PC" is zero. Fire Emblem is also a case where ATs and fighters could all be protagonists from different gens.

The problem with this logic is that Sakurai made it very clear that Spring Man was one of if not the primary consideration from him, and only didn't get picked because Yabuki wanted Min Min. Therefore, he was not bothered one bit by Spring Man already being an assist trophy, so why should this affect whether Isaac gets picked or not over other GS characters?

 

[Dorayaki]

The problem with this logic is that Sakurai made it very clear that Spring Man was one of if not the primary consideration from him, and only didn't get picked because Yabuki wanted Min Min. Therefore, he was not bothered one bit by Spring Man already being an assist trophy, so why should this affect whether Isaac gets picked or not over other GS characters?

The part I particularly care about is whether Isaac is the majorly acceptable option in this case (I think it's clear GS doesnt have that many options that ARMS could give so it's easy to narrow down the possibilities). So the question would be whether Min Min is a debatable pick, and whether other options beside Isaac are more or less debateable.

I sure can understand why Issac is the ideal choice (if not copying the Cloud case who isn't the protagonist from original title). So as stated, I'm personally supportive of him.

 

[FlawedAI]

Following what said, it could be wise to avoid using protagonist from two round of AT when it could be a classic mascot or enemy IMO. In the case of Min Min / Spring Man, it feels like they are not bothered since they have multiple options on hand that ensures the chance of "character being both NPC and PC" is zero. Fire Emblem is also a case where ATs and fighters could all be protagonists from different gens.

I get that many of the current ATs are series protagonists, and we'd not know if that is a direct deconfirmation of whole franchises. Yuri, if he follows the case of Lyn and Spring Man, it doesnt feel like his franchise can easily nominate other proper candidates people like. As for Golden Sun, not sure if Matthew is an acceptable choice of first GS fighter at this point.

The part I particularly care about is whether Isaac is the majorly acceptable option in this case (I think it's clear GS doesnt have that many options that ARMS could give so it's easy to narrow down the possibilities). So the question would be whether Min Min is a debatable pick, and whether other options beside Isaac are more or less debateable.

I sure can understand why Issac is the ideal choice (if not copying the Cloud case who isn't the protagonist from original title). So as stated, I'm personally supportive of him.

You don't seem to be arguing my point, you just refute the idea that Isaac could be both an Assist Trophy and a fighter while arguing hypotheticals and saying that the team cares deeply about characters not being both PCs and NPCs when we've given you many examples of that not being true. Even if we ignore Chrom, who can literally beat himself up, characters like K. Rool, Link, Samus, Captain Falcon, hell, Isaac, all have Mii Costumes, giving them NPC roles (not to mention the many variations on characters in Spirits, like Kaptain K. Rool, Wedding Mario, etc). It's been asked many, many times on this board whether we'd be ok with a non-Isaac character, and the general conclusion is, we'd be happy that it's new GS stuff, but it would feel weird for it not to be Isaac.

I understand being skeptical, not everyone here is as optimistic as I and some others are. However, if you're not going to be arguing in good faith, I ask that you please stop with this argument. You are on a board specifically for supporting Isaac, who happens to be an Assist Trophy. The vast majority of us believe that doesn't matter. You may not agree, but your argument against it is flimsy and based on hypotheticals and assumptions about the dev team which have been proven to not be true. I don't want to discourage your participation on the board, the more the merrier, always, but at a point it seems as though you're only trolling or here to argue. I'm almost certain you're not doing either of those things, but if you refuse to engage in our points, then it's not a good argument.

 

[Nazyrus]

Nazyrus You mentioned before that one of your contacts said GS 1 & 2 Remaster was a thing that's happening. How confident are you in this source and how confident is your source about this rumor?

I asked my NoA guy twice about it so far, specifically about how sure he is about the person that informed him, because of course he was given the info, he didn't come up with it himself. He told me it's a person he trusts and that wouldn't taint his track record. The only thing me and him agree is that the rumored month is tentative based on this mess of a year, but at least we can be happy that it's gonna happen. It all really lines up with also the new trademark from 2018 that just got approved this March, which is exactly the month where he got this info, funnily enough. I can only hope that GS HD is one of those unannounced games Nintendo has been saying to have still on schedule if things don't get worse in Japan (which hasn't been the case, thankfully).

 

[FlawedAI]

I asked my NoA guy twice about it so far, specifically about how sure he is about the person that informed him, because of course he was given the info, he didn't come up with it himself. He told me it's a person he trusts and that wouldn't taint his track record. The only thing me and him agree is that the rumored month is tentative based on this mess of a year, but at least we can be happy that it's gonna happen. It all really lines up with also the new trademark from 2018 that just got approved this March, which is exactly the month where he got this info, funnily enough. I can only hope that GS HD is one of those unannounced games Nintendo has been saying to have still on schedule if things don't get worse in Japan (which hasn't been the case, thankfully).

This is good to hear. Apparently GS rumors were circulated for a while in 2018, with insiders becoming more confident recently. I imagine the only reason we haven't had a solid leak with a release date is because the release date's probably up in the air and insiders don't want Nintendo on them for leaking it.

 

[Nazyrus]

This is good to hear. Apparently GS rumors were circulated for a while in 2018, with insiders becoming more confident recently. I imagine the only reason we haven't had a solid leak with a release date is because the release date's probably up in the air and insiders don't want Nintendo on them for leaking it.

That's most likely the case, hell that's the case with other games insiders aren't really touching much. No one is talking about the supposed rumored 2D Metroid which was rumored alongside with Paper Mario before.

 

[SharkLord]

I’m pretty sure we would get new ones that are strangely missing at the moment like Sheba, Piers, Saturos, Menardi, Karst, Agato, Kraden, Matthew’s full team, etc.
There are only two that use AT Isaac. Isaac (of course lol) and Jenna. Honestly, you don’t need to remove AT Isaac from those battles at all. In the Isaac Spirit Battle, it uses Mii Isaac at the end that can be replaced with playable Isaac. Not that difficult.

Huh, was it really one two? I could've sworn he was used more...
Maybe it's because it only ever played the one song with the Golden Sun Spirits. That gives off an image of monotony, at least somewhat.

 

[Kalaam]

Speaking of which, Isaac's spirit battle is just so good. Having the whole team show up is super cool. I'm not sure what the stage is supposed to represent. The lookout's bridge maybe ?

 

[FlawedAI]

Huh, was it really one two? I could've sworn he was used more...
Maybe it's because it only ever played the one song with the Golden Sun Spirits. That gives off an image of monotony, at least somewhat.

I know the game likes to use TLA remix for RPG Sprits, I think Weyard was used for Matthew.

 

[ZelDan]

Speaking of which, Isaac's spirit battle is just so good. Having the whole team show up is super cool. I'm not sure what the stage is supposed to represent. The lookout's bridge maybe ?

The stage they use has a mountain in the background, right? Maybe we are supposed to pretend the mountain is Mt. Aleph?

I dunno. *shrug*

 

[FlawedAI]

Huh, was it really one two? I could've sworn he was used more...
Maybe it's because it only ever played the one song with the Golden Sun Spirits. That gives off an image of monotony, at least somewhat.

I looked it up and the Isaac Assist only shows up on the Isaac battle and the Jenna battle. My guess would be that the bridge is supposed to be some kind of reference to Mt. Aleph, though maybe the volcano part of Wuhu would've been better?