Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Wiisp]

Also Wiisp what is your experience with Triss? 3DS mentioned that you guys played forum Mafia together, and Triss' actual level of experience greatly impacts my view of their slot.

Not Dead Yet Mafia
Triss was town here, thats the full game link

Triss' ISO

 

[Wiisp]

hmm, he did vote a lot there
while here he is doing very little of it
I wonder if I am wrong, but the VT claim probably doesnt come from a wolf still
maybe some kind of 3p?

Fonti can check him or Hand at this point

 

[Wiisp]

I wonder if that VT claim is a red herring

 

[BoomFrog]

Trisscar sincerly thought that their VT claim would go unchallenged, and really did intend for it to try and trick scum. Scum!Trisscar doesn't try and trick scum into getting NKed.

 

[Spak]

How many people with killing power does Osie usually put in a game? Trying to figure out if Banana's hunch about getting shot N1 by a vig is feasible (albeit a bad play either way imo). From the one that you linked for Triss, there seemed to be two arsonists (which is pretty good amount of killing power, albeit not N1).

The ISO is a broken link for me (it looks like it's using a search ID, which is a really weird way to design a website lol); could you tell me what you searched for?

I wonder if that VT claim is a red herring

Why would it have been a red herring? There wasn't really anything to distract from, and the Shadow claim was conspicuous enough to not reveal too much, but generated enough conversation to get us out of RVS imo.

 

[Spak]

Oh, I think I need an account to view user info on Mafia Colleseum....

 

[Spak]

honestly the trains went full-auto towards EoD
like we had top trains of DB, and Triss
then all of a sudden it was Z25 and Handorin
and there didnt seem to be any effort in trying to save them
I say this, because even though the wagons werent officially stated
you would think the wolves would try to actively place votes on the counter wagon if that was a thing

And then after all of this, why would they want DB dead? A vig shot could make some sense (although a banana flip wouldn't give us much aside from information on people who insta-wagoned him), but the shot only really makes sense if there's a vig (which, don't come out if you're the town!Vig that shot and have more shots left, but I'm kinda sketched out by the convenience of this whole situation, especially with 3DS being a possible NK target with his claim being proven toDay imo).

 

[Trisscar]

Triss and Wisp can you walk me through step-by-step how you are using the quoting function? This site actually has the most efficient multi-quoting on any of the forums I've used.

Use the +Quote button when you want to quote multiple posts. Then beneath the text box, select "insert quotes" to add all of the quotes you selected. Do NOT use the "reply" button for multi-quoting. Only use the "reply" button when you specifically want to only quote 1 post.

Also if you only want to select part of a post to quote, highlight that part of the text and it gives you the option to either add it to the multi-quote or reply to it there.

ummm.... I just press "insert quotes" tbh. XD Not sure what your question here is.

 

[Trisscar]

Wiisp what's 3p?

Spak I mean, I can screenshot what I assume is my post history if you want? Might be easier to simply make your own account though.

 

[Spak]

Spak
bessie
both of you give me 2-3 possible wolves
and why

Okay, just off the top of my head (I'm having to do some re-thinking on the spot due to Laser flipping town on me):
- Triss: My reasoning for Triss hasn't changed since yesterDay (and I didn't much from Triss after I left, aside from joining Z's wagon). The fact that they have had forum Mafia experience makes me even more skeptical of the D1 VT claim (although I can't see how much they've played), but the fact that they've seen how other players handle themselves in the context of Mafia makes me think they should have a better understanding of the tactical differentiation between the styles of Mafia.
- Deadbananas: I supported DB a lot last phase because I saw a lot of people pushing him with little to no reason, but I don't know if I believe his claim. I don't think that Mafia would have shot him, and there were better people to vig last night imo (since he didn't really have much of a paper trail at all, and saving a vig for later wouldn't lose us a phase). The only problem I see with DB is I don't see an experienced mod like Osie balancing the game such that (presumably) half or a little less than half of the scumteam are newer players.
- Ran's slot (Culthon): Ran's play at the end of last phase was uber sketch. He was flip-flopping his vote all over the place, which is irregular for me (since the Ran I remember from years back tends to make well-informed opinions of slots and stick to them to the bitter end (I used that against him in Masquerade)). His actions don't feel town!Ran to me, and it may be that his play has changed, but it felt a lot more... Panicked than I recall him being in the past.

 

[Spak]

Spak Spak I mean, I can screenshot what I assume is my post history if you want? Might be easier to simply make your own account though.

Yeah, it'd probably be easier that way; I'll get on that right now.

 

[Trisscar]

Maaaannnn, I had one game like, three months ago. Then I had school, a Rimworld community tyrefyre chain, and a bunch of personal stuff happen. At the time of that game I figured I'd let town talk things out and just protect whoever looked most likely to get nightkilled. The fact I predicted maf's target at all still kinda astounds me. XD

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Sure is a very strong word. But it's enough to keep me at a town lean on Sabrar.

Why for both?

I guess it is a pretty strong word choice but you understood what I was getting at.

Cuthalion has more to do with Ran's play since they haven't done much themself.

Spak hasn't left an impression on me. I remeber they are the person with the blue lettering in their posts and that i didn't like their #891. With as informed on other topics as they appear to be them asking the question they did of 3DD when it had been discussed was not a good look to me. Other than that they have been pretty forgettable.

 

[Wiisp]

a lot of people seeem to want this PoE dead Triss/Hand/DB
yet here we are, with no information, because you all decided to play lets CFD 20 times, and see where it lands

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Obviously, someone in my town list is scum. I'm not going to catch the deepwolves until I catch the shallow wolves and find links. But trying to find the deepwolves first just ends up with a bunch of paranoia lynches.

scum!Sabrar would not be so vicerally offended by the impossibility of Ninja's role because he'd know Ninja is town and is sincere.

Trisscar sincerly thought that their VT claim would go unchallenged, and really did intend for it to try and trick scum. Scum!Trisscar doesn't try and trick scum into getting NKed.

These two posts I really like for town!boom.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

a lot of people seeem to want this PoE dead Triss/Hand/DB
yet here we are, with no information, because you all decided to play lets CFD 20 times, and see where it lands

Hando or triss can be sorted by Fonti tonight.
I would assume we should have some form of answer on one of them start of d3.
DB is likely town here given their claim.
We need a new PoE to sort thru.

 

[Spak]

Spak hasn't left an impression on me. I remeber they are the person with the blue lettering in their posts and that i didn't like their #891. With as informed on other topics as they appear to be them asking the question they did of 3DD when it had been discussed was not a good look to me. Other than that they have been pretty forgettable.

And you haven't left much of an impression on me, aside from that I like a lot of your points from most of your read lists. Sounds like we're about even, on opposite sides of the coin ;P

With that said, what bothers you about my 891? Where were people talking about the Shadow's alignment previously (I had presumed at the time it was kind of like a Mason-like role at the time, without the benefit of knowing alignment of the other person (like the cell phone I had to talk to Ryu from Revival of DGames, from anyone who was in that)).

 

[Wiisp]

Deadbananas
unvote Boom, vote your next highest wolf

 

[Spak]

Also, for people who know Osie, does he typically hand out roles like DB's claim to town, scum, or are they pretty evenhanded about redirection? Sorry for all of the questions; I haven't played with many offsite mods, so the more I know about the mod, the more I know about how the feasibility of the claim.

 

[Wiisp]

I am not trying to mod game Osie's game
Osie does what Osie pleases
Osie is very creative with his roles, so yes I could believe pretty much anything

 

[LogicoftheVI]

And you haven't left much of an impression on me, aside from that I like a lot of your points from most of your read lists. Sounds like we're about even, on opposite sides of the coin ;P

With that said, what bothers you about my 891? Where were people talking about the Shadow's alignment previously (I had presumed at the time it was kind of like a Mason-like role at the time, without the benefit of knowing alignment of the other person (like the cell phone I had to talk to Ryu from Revival of DGames, from anyone who was in that)).

could you highlight some of the things that you do agree with?
Maybe even discuss with me on things that you don't?

Also, it looks like people are assuming the shadow isn't a part of the game, but I don't know why 3DS wouldn't want to share who it is if it's that's the case. Did he say somewhere that the shadow is an unaligned party?

so in the very early going we discussed whether this was a mentor (something outside of the game) or his actual role (something inside the game) to which 3DS clarified that it was his role and that the person he was talking with was not part of the roster. He stated that they are soemone he can talk with and bring into the game to talk with us.

So the reason I didn't like this is because you seemed to be pretty informed about the other topics being discussed but asked this question which had already been answered. Made me feel like you were either picking and choosing things to comment on or were given some info but not all by someone else.

Not a really strong feeling but what I came away with.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

I am not trying to mod game Osie's game
Osie does what Osie pleases
Osie is very creative with his roles, so yes I could believe pretty much anything

Inwas just going to say that they should ask you....lol
I have played in a lot of Osie games and I agree he is very creative with roles.
I wouldn't mod game him here maybe in something more basic?

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Also, for people who know Osie, does he typically hand out roles like DB's claim to town, scum, or are they pretty evenhanded about redirection? Sorry for all of the questions; I haven't played with many offsite mods, so the more I know about the mod, the more I know about how the feasibility of the claim.

here are some games you can look at the setups and see for yourself.
Fun For All Involved
Haiku
Phantom of the Opera
5th Anni Ultimate Reboot
Paint it Black
Unreliable Mods (to show you how crazy he can get)
Token Party (he's ran various iterations of this on multiple sites including Smashboards)

 

[Jackrito]

a lot of people seeem to want this PoE dead Triss/Hand/DB
yet here we are, with no information, because you all decided to play lets CFD 20 times, and see where it lands

I actually don't want any of them dead apart from DB who I sort of agree with Spak on this whole thing seems like so much of a concidence that he happens to have a role that swaps with someone and he now lost that role because he used it on a townie and he just happened to get shot at the same time, which killed the other person. I'm not risking a lynch on because I could be wrong but his play bothers me a lot still . That all sounds insane to me though. I also don't think a vig shoots him there over Handor like I said before it was a bad shot.

I really think Triss is town and if hes not well I messed up and need to review my game state. Hand could be scum but not feeling it better to use the vanilla check there, sort of worried that scum would have a way to counter that though so expecting that to win us the game is a bit hopeful

 

[Jackrito]

Please don't try to modgame Osie as someone who GMs a lot of his games he does some wild stuff and has no real pattern imo

 

[Spak]

could you highlight some of the things that you do agree with?
Maybe even discuss with me on things that you don't?

Bessie - there posts are easy to follow and understand. #736 feels particularly townie to me.
Malakandra - townlean I just like what I'm seeing from this slot.

I mean I guess, but the lack of interaction with other people seems kinda sketch to me. Their posts seem quality, but it's easy to generate content in retrospect. I feel like I don't have enough from Bessie to give them a lean in much of either direction. Also, I feel like Malak hasn't contributed enough to give a solid lean in either direction either; you seem to be giving both of their slots a pass on a whim without much explanation.

Trisscar - claim feel genuine. Game state surrounding the train on this player kind of leads me to believe they are town here.

Xivii - I think I want to give them town points dmfor #42? What mafia gives a townread on someone's first post?

These reads seem very underdeveloped for them being so instrumental in this game's interactions thus far (for Triss, the whole claim situation is a whole lot more nuanced than "seems genuine;" and what about the game state surrounding the train makes them seem town? The fact that people jumped off for a ML? And Zen's interactions with Ran during the middle and end of last phase are really telling of both slots (although I thought it was TvT at the time, I don't think so anymore).)

Jackrito - his handling of me is quite different here than in babysitter mafia. I didnt notice him throwing shade at Z's townread on me in #155. Now the early town read surprises me even more than before. I will lhabe to get him to talk about what he thinks of the rest of my D1? I take Z's side of the argument in #160 notnsure what it means for Jacks alignment tho?Talking about feeling bad for mafia teammates if 3DS and Handor were mafia feels off. I could see scum!jack doing this, maybe spew town of jack flips scum? I like jack calling out pythag in #1093 feels like a town post. I dont like #1098 aren't we supposed to lynch scummy people?
Ranmaru - early focus on the 3ds's shadow more than 3ds themself. #144 is a generic post that can come from either alignment. #162 is a generic why aren't you voting post. I am not a huge fan of these 2 posts but they can come from either alignment. I kind of like the vote switch to Bananas in #215 they lay out their reasoning in #214 and after checking the posts in question I agree. While #344 is justified but also kind of weird seeing how focused they were on what the shadow had thought earlier? Not going to spend much more time on this slot as they asked to be replaced out in thread and last time someone did that in an Osie game they were modkilled (Phantom of the Opera I believe). Subbed out huh? Well I'm not liking this slot they have work to do.
Sabrar - I am not sure what to make of them just glossing over 3ds role claim as something unannounced and out of game? I also still feel like #104 says a lot with out really saying anything. And I dont feel like their posts prior to that are very AI (rvs vote, rvs talk, timeline post). Really not a fan of the 3ds vote I doubt a scum team makes that type of play (at least in the way sab is trying to paint it) I do not like the reply in #315. If the role is not proved by a certain group specified time that is when we should be pushing this PR claim imo. This could certainly be scum.

These reads all feel very fleshed out and reasonable. I can see your thought process clearly, and can see why you're coming at the slot how you are. Without more realtime interaction with other slots, reads like these are is the only way I can gauge how genuine your thought process is.

 

[Deadbananas]

Deadbananas Deadbananas what made you speculate about vig D1, why were you worried about it, and why didn’t you expect them to kill N1?

I was saying I would be worried about a claim vig in response to Triss saying that it would be best for everyone to claim. I didn't expect to be vigged night 1, becuase I thought I was a bad target, and I didn't really expect a vig because by my power level I assumed it would be more a one shot deal.

Why do you think the Mafia would have aimed for you? I'd have thought that you would've been a safe target to keep alive since you were so close to death last game... Only thing I could think of is a bus driver with a high and low target player, but it wouldn't make sense to have a bus driver flip you and someone else, then have mafia take a shot at you (unless they wanted to negate protection, but even still that seems like a waste of a bus to cause confusion among the townsfolk as well as increasing the chances of getting caught by some sort of tracker). The role seems like a cool one (making it both easier to fakeclaim (smaller chance of a CC than a claiming standard vig) and harder to make up), but I'm not 100% sold... I'll have to sleep on it.

I think mafia could of aimed for me if 3DS was scum like I thought. Because I had been pushing somewhat aggressively, but it wasn't a big expectation.

Deadbananas: I supported DB a lot last phase because I saw a lot of people pushing him with little to no reason, but I don't know if I believe his claim. I don't think that Mafia would have shot him, and there were better people to vig last night imo (since he didn't really have much of a paper trail at all, and saving a vig for later wouldn't lose us a phase). The only problem I see with DB is I don't see an experienced mod like Osie balancing the game such that (presumably) half or a little less than half of the scumteam are newer players.

I too think their where better people to vig but I see me being vigged as more likely than mafia killing me in the aftermath. There's not really a lot I can say to you about this since the main reason you have against me is my claim.

Deadbananas Deadbananas
unvote Boom, vote your next highest wolf

Unvote Boom

Vote Cuthalion

A vote for the Ran slot as Cuthalion has been catching up and thus not had time to post.

 

[bessie]

I should have clarified, I'm not scum reading you, just saying I don't have enough information to read you confidently. Part of that is that I think you have a meticulous scum game. I still don't understand how Sabrar caught you in Texas Hold'em Mafia. So it's not just about less then average content.

I didn’t comment on whether or not you are town or scum reading me, which is irrelevant. Tell me BoomFrog, what metric are you using to gage “average content”? Straight post count per player?

bessie
talk to me about triss and dead

How bout you tell me why you allow Trisscar to refuse to play your game and no one else (see post 1394)? Most of us have evaluated or at least made a gut call on everyone, no nulls, no hedging (well, mostly no hedging). Reads at a certain point in time, which as you explain can be reevaluated. Triscar gave a very noncommittal reads list, noncommittal even on me, her scummiest read. You asked again and got this answer.

Prefer not to, don't want to mentally predispose myself to thinking certain people are town or not if new evidence comes up.

When pushed again, Trisscar still didn’t play the game but rearranged her noncommittal reads into groupings see post 1397, and without the replacements see post 1398.

Skipping ahead and just reading Trisscar's posts on this page, I see a post about the quoting function (which I agree is awful), one with a question and something about her meta on another site, and another post about another site.

Trisscar why don't you play Wiisp's game?

 

[Spak]

so in the very early going we discussed whether this was a mentor (something outside of the game) or his actual role (something inside the game) to which 3DS clarified that it was his role and that the person he was talking with was not part of the roster. He stated that they are soemone he can talk with and bring into the game to talk with us.

Gotcha. I dunno, I must have just missed that somehow.... My bad, I guess.

 

[Spak]

I think mafia could of aimed for me if 3DS was scum like I thought. Because I had been pushing somewhat aggressively, but it wasn't a big expectation.

3DS wasn't scum, tho? I dunno what point you're trying to make here lol.

 

[bessie]

I should have split that into two posts.

 

[Deadbananas]

3DS wasn't scum, tho? I dunno what point you're trying to make here lol.

You were asking why I thought mafia would of targeted me, thats why i assumed mafia would of targeted me when making my target selection. If you are asking why i think mafia would target me now, I don't think they did and if they did IDK why. you seem to be questioning if I was vigged, which is what I think. In your opinion, is laser guy the more likely Vig shot? or do you have another explanation for two deaths?

 

[Spak]

I mean let's be honest, ur a hedgelord

 

[Wiisp]

bessie
first off, dont answer my question with a question
and what exactly am I going to do? whip him if he doesnt play my game?
I am not going to wolf read him for it, if thats what you are asking me to do
I do have a read list I can use for it, if he doesnt play the game, that I will post in the final draft

 

[Wiisp]

Bessie is either very frustrated as town, or frustrated as mafia that people are getting away with playing like poop
I want to say its the first, over the latter

 

[Jackrito]

bessie
first off, dont answer my question with a question
and what exactly am I going to do? whip him if he doesnt play my game?
I am not going to wolf read him for it, if thats what you are asking me to do
I do have a read list I can use for it, if he doesnt play the game, that I will post in the final draft

in your view are scum more or less likely to play your game, I have my own view on which but wondering what yours is.

 

[Spak]

You were asking why I thought mafia would of targeted me, thats why i assumed mafia would of targeted me when making my target selection. If you are asking why i think mafia would target me now, I don't think they did and if they did IDK why. you seem to be questioning if I was vigged, which is what I think. In your opinion, is laser guy the more likely Vig shot? or do you have another explanation for two deaths?

It sounded like you were pushing a theoretical of why Mafia would target you based upon scum!3DS, which is already disproven. I agree that Vig is the most likely person to target you, but my questions are more of why a combination of why would they try to shoot you specifically, why would you target a role whose claim would be proven/disproven toDay, what information did you get from a 3DS flip, and what is the liklihood of an abundance of killing roles?

 

[Deadbananas]

For me specifically, Im mostly guessing because they thought I was scum really hard, but I don't know.
For why I targeted 3ds, I've already explained this. On the one hand I, incorrectly, thought he might be scum and that if I was targeted I might be able to kill a scum, and I also thought if he wasn't scum, he would probably be targeted by scum for having a power role so I could try to save him. If he flipped scum I would clear Sabrar and look at Triss or Ran next most likely. At the time I made the decision I wasn't thinking about what info I would get if he flipped town since I wasn't expecting to be targeted unless he flipped town. But I gain more trust in Triss from that, but I've yet to look back over all his posts to get more info. Its guaranteed we have one killing role besides scum, I'd say I expect there to be not a lot more killing roles.

 

[Xivii]

Jack and Logic why do you keep asking Wisp questions like you're trying to sort him.

 

[Xivii]

DB why were you worried about a vig claim specifically rather than any other PR? Cop etc.?