Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Xivii]

Have we been on a scum team before, Ran? I think I recall one where I replaced out?

 

[Sabrar]

Pythag is the fourth scum. He replaces Triss.

Previously whenever you switched tracks you always provided reasons. Why not now? Where is your case?
Also 'is the fourth scum' is decisively different from 'in my bottom four'. When did you decide that there were exactly 4 scum?

Bottom 3 is Ninja, Bananas, Triss. I'm debating between Jack and Ran for the fourth.

 

[ranmaru]

We have. Give me a minute.

 

[ranmaru]

Sabrar I don't need a case on Pythag. He reads me as town from my reads list, yet tries to weasel in a scum read on me from the interaction between Xivii and myself, agreeing to Jack's logic.

 

[bessie]

Bessie I have no real view on atm I would say town based off reread but no real strong view, their posting style of so many things at once reminds me of scum lasor from last game which is a worry, but could just be a style thing and content is ok.

Making one or two long posts per day is my style. I usually play a couple hours a night after work, so I read everything that was posted from where I left off, and arrange all my responses to questions, and quotes of things that ping me, into one long post. And the reason I like to post it all at once is that I think it helps people follow my thought process. On weekends when I have more free time, I post more often depending on how the thread is moving, and because there is less content to cover I made shorter posts. This can be confirmed by several other people in this game.

I’m breaking up my posts today because of the mod prod; it appears the number of posts is what counts, not the number of words.

 

[ranmaru]

When did you decide that there were exactly 4 scum?

Because he's the lowest in the list, and after him are my three scum reads, making it a bottom four. Yet a fourth scum read is developing that will replace his spot.

 

[Xivii]

@ Mod request bessies mega posts be treated as multiple posts. Quality is the ultimate goal isn’t it, and policing quantity is just a means to that end?

 

[ranmaru]

Xivii

TMI point dropped.

Points that are valid:
Disgengaged
No conviction
Tone is different
Slinging mud after asked about his play
No explanation for why Pythag became better to him

 

[ranmaru]

Also why did you go invisible?

Oh yeah I also agree with Laser that Ranmaru not informing Triss that he couldn't edit posts is weird...

 

[3DSNinja]

I am confused on how many scum there are, I'm thinkin 3 but there could be 4.
how many do you think we have Ran

 

[ranmaru]

I'm thinking maximum four. 25% (Which has been a common number in past history of large games)

 

[3DSNinja]

Makes sense. More then 25% at the start would be overpowering.

imo i think Xivii isn't a good D1 lynch, i'd say wait till d2.

Not scum reading either of ya tbh

 

[Deadbananas]

I actually agree with your shadow

vote Deadbananas

could you explain why?

 

[Sabrar]

Makes sense. More then 25% at the start would be overpowering.

We had a 16 player game once with 6 scum (3-3 teams) and an indie. Town did well until day 5, but it wasn't really close.
MU does the championship with 3 goons in 15 players. 3 or 4 scum is definitely the most likely scenario.

 

[ranmaru]

This is the post where Ninja edited, and you never see me warning him about it: Oasis Ninja Edit

 

[bessie]

That's flawed thinking. Mafia are in a team together. You can't call multiple people scummy and not inherently link them together, unless you believe there are multiple mafia teams. You can have a scum read on person X and a town read on person Y at the same time, but given person X's interactions with Y, conclude Y is scum, or vice versa. And say there's 2 mafia left, and "I think person X and Z are "scummy"", that means I think they're on the same team. But after analysis, maybe the X and Y makes more sense.

tldr the ramble: think in scum teams and not scum individuals.

I don’t agree. Maybe thinking in teams is what works for you. But I think it’s perfectly valid to scum hunt individually, especially on Day 1. My reads are usually by individual, sometimes even late game, and I’m sure I’ve had arguments about that before, probably with Sabrar. Your assertiveness about the way mafia should be played or else it’s wrong is the same thing that has pinged me about Trisscar.

 

[ranmaru]

Sabrar Why have you only focused on Ninja's role? Why haven't you been analyzing his individual play?

 

[Deadbananas]

1. I'm never town read
2. I don't think I even made any stances, I don't know what he would agree with at this point in the game.
3. Ok it's gut, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't like putting the heat on players new to our forum, but I feel good about this. At least I feel WAY better about this than trying to figure out Ran v. Xivii more.

Vote : deadbananas

For the stances I liked that you had a ping on Z25 as I was getting the same thing. I liked that you pushed Triss a bit about how they had a strong opinion on how the game should be played best but weren't pushing it. I disagreed with your opinion on Sabrar but thought you went about it the right way. Ultimately you were playing very towny the whole game and it was more your questions that pushed you up higher since I can't see a scum playing the way you are.

 

[Sabrar]

and I’m sure I’ve had arguments about that before, probably with Sabrar.

Yeap. Assuming there is only a single scum-team in the game and no indies, your individual scum-reads must make sense as a team as well, otherwise you're incorrect about at least one fo them.

Sabrar Why have you only focused on Ninja's role? Why haven't you been analyzing his individual play?

Because I'm much better at analyzing mechanics than content and I don't have the desire to figure out Ninja's style. Brings back painful memories about Peaceful Whale on xkcd.

 

[Z25]

I actually agree with your shadow

vote Deadbananas

You just said you would rather lynch ran, would you really vote DB over ran then?

 

[Deadbananas]

Yeap. Assuming there is only a single scum-team in the game and no indies, your individual scum-reads must make sense as a team as well, otherwise you're incorrect about at least one fo them.

Personally its just I know Im not skilled enough to find a whole scum team so I'd rather take them one at of time.

 

[bessie]

Ok, skipping Ran’s and Zen’s content and saving it for later is not going to work. There’s just too much content to get through. I’m just going to go back a bit and start posting things that pique me from their posts as I go along. Here’s a couple posts to which I was working on a reply.

bessie do you happen to have any quotes from Stellaris?

Yes that was the one where Ran was SK. What in particular? I kinda have bad memories of that game. I had to drop out after passing out from stress at work. I don’t remember Ran pushing you, I didn’t remember him pushing anyone, what I remember is that you were suspicious of him because he was discussing mechanics or ran some numbers on something and you thought that was unusual for him because it was something he never did, like ever. I don’t have time to properly read the game I’m currently playing, I don’t think I’ll get to reading any old notes tonight.

Also your scum meta of me is very outdated. This is a better representation. As well as Newbie New Year if bessie happens to have some content from it.

That would be a good example if I could link to it. I will jump in here and give my take on Zen’s posting style. In the first game I every played with him he explained that he chose a random style for every game and it threw people off. He brought it up in other games when people asked him why he wasn’t playing like he did in the last game. LaserGuy referred to one of these instances earlier. In two games on xkcd, he played as an alt and I doubt many people even suspected it was Zen, the style was so drastically different. Back to Newbie New Year, he won that game as scum, and I think only one other player was ever seriously suspicious of him. So I think Zen's playstyle in itself is totally non-alignment indicative.

 

[BoomFrog]

The more I keep thinking about it I really don't like LaserGuy's conclusions. His logic sounds fine, but I disagree with his town read of Triss and his scum read of Ran, (and I think one other thing, probably about Ninja but I'd have to reread to see what it was but I'm going to bed now)

I suspect he is having to twist good conclusions to avoid early bussing of scummates.

Vote LaserGuy

 

[BoomFrog]

Hari was Zen? **** me...

 

[Xivii]

Disgengaged - As you quoted, I had the same number of (and content in them) as Token Power. This is also the case for Sorcerers. Invalid

No conviction - You haven't seen me play yet. It's Day 1 in a large. You made this same statement about me in Crossover, the last large we played. Invalid.

The only time I have early conviction is when I just happen to catch scum from a discrepancy (for example, I caught Vicarin for using a period in his confirmation in the last game I played with him. And Z25 for his push on the haiku in sorcerers) or if I'm just trying to get things started. That is not the approach I am taking this game.

Tone is different - Explicitly provide examples of how my tone differs from my town games and is similar to my scum games. You wont be able to because I literally play with a different tone each game. Which you're aware of. Likely Invalid.

Slinging mud after asked about his play - Describe the difference between slinging mud and finding someone scummy. Explicitly state the differences. Likely Invalid.

No explanation for why Pythag became better to him - #437 Invalid.

 

[Xivii]

This is the post where Ninja edited, and you never see me warning him about it: Oasis Ninja Edit

This is fair. I realized that I was judging you based on how I would have handled the situation.

 

[Z25]

Also my bottom four:
Laser, handirian, then I would go back to looking at boom or one of the more inactive players. And then triss or DB because while I suspect Ran I don’t think their day one lynch is a play.

 

[bessie]

My read on Xivii is pretty strong, it's just based much more on how I understand his meta than on his individual play. I don't really trust much of anything in his individual play in D1 because Xivii intentionally plays chaotically. Trying to read him the way I would try to read a more "normal" player is not going to work.

I agree with Laser here and would have liked to add this to my last post but blah.

 

[LaserGuy]

Z25 I kind of want to just vote for you right now for how badly you are misrepresenting me in #669. But first, let's take this post apart.

I like some of his posts but others feel like they just want to draw attention like 277. His focus on the act of triss editing Posts was weird. When the OP states minor edits are fine and we know laser knew the OP well( he remembered the low power stuff) it’s a weird thing for a townie to use and make content about.

Why is it weird that I would remember something that was in the 4ht line of the heading of the OP? The edit thing was buried deep in the spoilers. In every other mafia site I've played in edits are explicitly forbidden and I'm pretty sure I have seen a player modkilled for it on at least one occasion. So yes, I felt it was worth a mention, and I found it odd that the player who first noticed it wouldn't have immediately alerted the Triss of the problem.

Especially when I’m pretty sure last game Ninja made a few mistakes of editing but laser didn’t address it there. Could be wrong but I believe that was the case.

I didn't notice that 3DS has made edits in that game at the time they happened. I don't usually pay any attention to the post bylines because the information there isn't usually important. The only reason I know that 3DS edited posts in that game is because BoomFrog pointed it out and explained to 3DS why it was a problem. The only reason I noted that Triss edited his posts was because Ran commented on it, but, unlike BoomFrog, Ran used it in his read but didn't bother to say anything to Triss. Even if Ran turns out to be Town, this is still very bad form IMHO.

He’s talked more on other slots like triss then me but his vote early on was still on me at the time. Which was odd. Feels like that vote overall didn’t matter as much to them.

I am townreading Triss. Why on earth would I vote for him?

370 has him switch to you for what is pretty poor reasoning to start. He thinks you somehow have access to knowledge of the entire setup. Something that is a very crazy idea and reason to vote someone with very little to back that up. It’s just a bad post imo because the vote reasoning is very invalid. It’s one thing to vote someone but something to back up as actual evidence would be important.

I explained this in detail in my reads list. I'm guessing you haven't actually read it. I was also scumreading Ran long before this point so this wasn't that much of a stretch from where I was sitting prior to that point..

496 also makes no sense at this point. He was voting you without question but the. Says the only person he would vote is me. Sure it’s a response to your post, but he could have said me or you would be his vote. Yet he didn’t. That means they don’t really care about voting you if they have other reads that are supposedly stronger.

Did you even read what I wrote here? I'll highlight the important bit for you.

Sorry, the only person in your bottom three who I would consider lynching at this point is z25. I have no interest in Xivii or 3DS

Ran's bottom three were you, Xivii and 3DS. What I was explaining to Ran was that of those three players, the only one I would consider voting for (especially after this post) is you. That doesn't mean there aren't other players I will consider voting for today. I made a gigantic reads post earlier today that clearly lays out how I feel about each player. Right now my votable list is {Ran, Z25, Deadbananas}. If I need a 4th, I'd flip a coin between Sabrar and bessie though I'm not keen on lynching either.

 

[Deadbananas]

why do you suspect me Z?

 

[bessie]

Hari was Zen? **** me...

I think this is really funny because I remember during Halloween Mafia at least two players though Hari was your alt.

 

[LaserGuy]

Hari was Zen? **** me...

I'm... not sure how to process this information.

 

[bessie]

Your push on me is annoying Laser, but I know that this stubbornness is town laser.

Why is stubbornness town Laser? Why not scum Laser?

 

[Xivii]

whoops, forgot to ask this but :

Xivii, isn't triss' claim part of his play? how are you separating the two there?

Claiming itself is NAI (actually slightly town indicative). His follow up posts however were full of filler. Specifically, #135 was an unnecessarily long-winded response to your question that ultimately didn't even end up answering you. I also agree with Boom (and Sabrar?) that his reasoning appeared post hoc (both for claiming early and for not voting boom).

 

[Z25]

Z25 I kind of want to just vote for you right now for how badly you are misrepresenting me in #669. But first, let's take this post apart.



Why is it weird that I would remember something that was in the 4ht line of the heading of the OP? The edit thing was buried deep in the spoilers. In every other mafia site I've played in edits are explicitly forbidden and I'm pretty sure I have seen a player modkilled for it on at least one occasion. So yes, I felt it was worth a mention, and I found it odd that the player who first noticed it wouldn't have immediately alerted the Triss of the problem.



I didn't notice that 3DS has made edits in that game at the time they happened. I don't usually pay any attention to the post bylines because the information there isn't usually important. The only reason I know that 3DS edited posts in that game is because BoomFrog pointed it out and explained to 3DS why it was a problem. The only reason I noted that Triss edited his posts was because Ran commented on it, but, unlike BoomFrog, Ran used it in his read but didn't bother to say anything to Triss. Even if Ran turns out to be Town, this is still very bad form IMHO.



I am townreading Triss. Why on earth would I vote for him?



I explained this in detail in my reads list. I'm guessing you haven't actually read it. I was also scumreading Ran long before this point so this wasn't that much of a stretch from where I was sitting prior to that point..



Did you even read what I wrote here? I'll highlight the important bit for you.

Ran's bottom three were you, Xivii and 3DS. What I was explaining to Ran was that of those three players, the only one I would consider voting for (especially after this post) is you. That doesn't mean there aren't other players I will consider voting for today. I made a gigantic reads post earlier today that clearly lays out how I feel about each player. Right now my votable list is {Ran, Z25, Deadbananas}. If I need a 4th, I'd flip a coin between Sabrar and bessie though I'm not keen on lynching either.

Your first and second points are fair.

Your town reading Triss now, but your early game really didn’t back that up before you switched to Ran.

And I read your reads list, I don’t have problems with your points, I have problems with the trail of content that lead to the logic as a lot of that information was not really alluded to by you beforehand. Making it come almost out of nowhere which makes your early game content feel a bit off before that list imo.

And I’m well aware it was based on Ran’s suggestions but as a scum read there was really no need to entertain their bottom 3 options when you had your own. Obviously it’s just a question at the end of the day but you could have touched upon your actually reads there more and state why you didn’t agree with a list. But I suppose that’s more of a meta point in regards to how one would play and respond to their biggest scum read

 

[Xivii]

I'm... not sure how to process this information.

Bessie and I thought for sure that you knew after I was indirectly quoting him to you in B99 haha.

 

[Z25]

why do you suspect me Z?

Your sitting at the bottom because right now I don’t have any case against your content or a desire to focus on it right now. But I haven’t gotten any solid town tells. Which is why I put you there just to fill a 4th space

 

[Deadbananas]

fair enough. I hate day 1.

 

[Z25]

Anyway I’m heading out as I view the beaches of Naples.

so goodnight

 

[Trisscar]

I don’t agree. Maybe thinking in teams is what works for you. But I think it’s perfectly valid to scum hunt individually, especially on Day 1. My reads are usually by individual, sometimes even late game, and I’m sure I’ve had arguments about that before, probably with Sabrar. Your assertiveness about the way mafia should be played or else it’s wrong is the same thing that has pinged me about Trisscar.

Gonna state here;

I play a lot of games with heavy mod scenes, and I DM 3.5Dnd for teenagers every other weekend or so.

F*** TELLING PEOPLE TO "PLAY THE META".
Screw telling people that the way they play an open ended or creative game is wrong. If any of my posts in particular happened to communicate that, please tell me. I'd very much like to not ever insinuate that even as an accident. F***. That.