Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Spak]

I may be misinterpreting your wording, but roles were probably distributed randomly.

Yeah, but I've heard of mods rerolling if the teams are super stacked. Guess you're right that it's not something I should make assumptions about, though.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii
I strongly believe in Sabrar's meta of never bussing, there is nothing wrong with FoSing your partner
but like that post that Sabrar wrote out, basically dumps on Hand, its not necessary at all

Everyone has Hando in the 'bad' group. Scum is most certainly bussing/distancing. wrt the bussing meta, it's not a bus unless he's lynched. Since we were planning on not lynching Hando, Sabrar could safely make that post.

 

[Sabrar]

It doesn't seem like him (or from any town, but especially him) to ask for permission to post a case

As some people have trouble keeping up with the amount of content they need to analyze, I have been trying to tone it down. It felt unnecessary to spend time on a train that was preemptively shut down.

 

[Trisscar]

As some people have trouble keeping up with the amount of content they need to analyze, I have been trying to tone it down. It felt unnecessary to spend time on a train that was preemptively shut down.

Thank you for that then. XD

 

[fontisian]

- Deadbananas: I supported DB a lot last phase because I saw a lot of people pushing him with little to no reason, but I don't know if I believe his claim. I don't think that Mafia would have shot him, and there were better people to vig last night imo (since he didn't really have much of a paper trail at all, and saving a vig for later wouldn't lose us a phase). The only problem I see with DB is I don't see an experienced mod like Osie balancing the game such that (presumably) half or a little less than half of the scumteam are newer players.

The ****? Are scumteams not rolled randomly here?

 

[Wiisp]

The ****? Are scumteams not rolled randomly here?

he has this believe that mods reroll if they think the player list is weak
I have never once done that, and Osie certainly doesnt do that

 

[Trisscar]

Xivii
Trisscar
3DSNinja (~Swap Wiisp) - N1 Town Imaginary Friend
Deadbananas
Spak
malakandra
Ranmaru (Swap Cuthalion)
Pythag
Z25 (Swap fontisian)
Handorin
LogicoftheVI
BoomFrog
Jackrito
Sabrar
Bessie
LaserGuy - N1 Town Vanilla

Posting again with color cause I suddenly realized thatw as a thing, and so it's easier for me to find later.

 

[Wiisp]

Everyone has Hando in the 'bad' group. Scum is most certainly bussing/distancing. wrt the bussing meta, it's not a bus unless he's lynched. Since we were planning on not lynching Hando, Sabrar could safely make that post.

he can, but I dont think he does
but thats for if/after Hand flips, and flips red

 

[Trisscar]

...It sounds like Hando is the lynch of the day?

That ends the day immediately if they're lynched though right? So what's the next move if Hando flips either way?

 

[Xivii]

The only time we've ever rerolled is when the newbie player claimed his role (the central town PR) during the confirmation stage.

 

[bessie]

bessie
first off, dont answer my question with a question

Why not? I've already said I was a reactive player.

I do have a read list I can use for it, if he doesnt play the game, that I will post in the final draft

Not the point. The point is to get everyone to commit to something.

I thought I saw what you were doing, because I sometimes do something similar. I push people to make ordered lists, town-scum, no neutrals, no grouping (like you aren’t allowed to have two or more people on the same line). I like ordered lists, because it forces you to make a judgment on everyone, even if it is only in relation to everyone else. But maybe it isn't what you're doing?

There are tiers and I don't think Wiisp's game is nuanced enough, but I'll bite

I kinda thought that was the point. Good/bad/no hedging. You have 7 good, 7 bad, and you don’t have any nulls.

 

[Wiisp]

the point of the game is get everyone to give thoughts in a simple way, thats easy for them to approach
the no null forces people to place people on a wim, and can also force mafia into a bubble

I just need cthulu now and I am done
and yes I can tell based on your tone that you are a reactive player

 

[fontisian]

he has this believe that mods reroll if they think the player list is weak
I have never once done that, and Osie certainly doesnt do that

Ok, cool. I don't want to play a game where I have to read into that, ugh.

Sorry guys, I'm having a bit of an off day today. I want to confirm a few things rn though: 1. Osie specifically said a mafia goon would come back as not-vanilla. Didn't really think about this before, but that means it's possible mafia have one role that would come back as vanilla to me. 2.Hando. Normally everyone calling one person scum like this would make me think they're town, but in this case I think Hando's scummates would know that he's sunk and going to get checked by me. This means that he probably isn't the mafia role that would check as vanilla.

 

[BoomFrog]

Xivii - Strong Good
BoomFrog - Strong Good
Jackrito - Good

I'm not caught up but I want to get this out there before bed. 1) What gives you such a good impression of Xivii? He's barely participated in the game besides the spat with Ran. 2) Why do you dismiss Xivii's dire warning about my excellent scum game and give me a strong town read anyway? 3) What's good about Jackrito?

 

[Wiisp]

fontisian
fair thoughts
anyways I am going to sleep

 

[Wiisp]

I'm not caught up but I want to get this out there before bed. 1) What gives you such a good impression of Xivii? He's barely participated in the game besides the spat with Ran. 2) Why do you dismiss Xivii's dire warning about my excellent scum game and give me a strong town read anyway? 3) What's good about Jackrito?

make sure he responds to this

 

[Spak]

If Hando flips town, though, what do we get from it? I mean, inactive lynches are terrible late game so if Hando's gonna be this way the whole time we should lynch him now, but if he flips town we're basically back to square 1 next phase (bar whatever WIFOM flip scum throws at us). If DB's telling the truth, the vig shot choice is just getting worse and worse lol.

Also, I always just assumed mods rerolled off of an awful team separation. It's no fun if town just immediately wins off of a bunch of noob scum crumbling under pressure/contradiction and not having a late game strategy. It might just be that my time in DGames runs together, but I can't recall a game where the town has so significantly outclassed the mafia in experience alone (something that could've been foreseen before the whole thing started) that it's been a landslide. That just seems like it'd be a non-challenge for town and unfun for both sides.

1) What gives you such a good impression of Xivii? He's barely participated in the game besides the spat with Ran. 2) Why do you dismiss Xivii's dire warning about my excellent scum game and give me a strong town read anyway? 3) What's good about Jackrito?

1) I've read his interactions with people as genuine. His interactions with Ran still read townie, the fact that he didn't cave to Wisp's game before he had a read list ready is a really good sign of him genuinely wanting to find reads, he's made a lot of sense through the phases, and just over tonight, he's had a good amount of real-time involvement that has seemed real instead of crafted to me.
2) Because I've been on the same wavelength as you on a LOT of topics. Your actions have made sense to me (from the whole situation with Triss early on to your fairly consistent questioning and scumhunting later on). If you're playing scum, you're doing it very well (which is also what I tell Ryker every time I play with him, and it feels like every time he ends up being scum )
3) I dunno, but I couldn't put him as null lol. He's sorta passed under my radar the entire game, and I haven't put in the time yet to do an ISO of him. He could've gone on either side of the fence tbh, but he hasn't really said anything that I've noticed to trip my radar. Really bad answer I know, but I have to be up for work in 6 hours so I can't do any better before I hit the hay.

make sure he responds to this

Bro, you gave me like three minutes. Chill your grill lol

 

[Wiisp]

Why do u consider hando an inactive?

 

[fontisian]

I don't think Sabrar is scum with Hando. At the beginning of the Day, Sabrar pushed lynching in me and Hando to avoid wasting D1, and I called him out. I specifically said that he probably wasn't scum with Hando there because he didn't want credit for the lynch. The next day, he then posted a case against Hando, that wasn't really needed to kill him, thus trying to take credit for the lynch. It directly contradicted what I had read him for before, and I don't think he throws away an unaligned read like that if they're partners. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Spak]

Why do u consider hando an inactive?

He's posted 52 times. That's like 3% of the total thread, and maybe half of those (being generous) are releveant information. What kind of a paper trail do you get from Handorin?

 

[BoomFrog]

bessie Quantity of content is by feel, but if I had to quantify it, it would be something like number of interesting interactions/opinions of other players. With a multiplier bonus for variety of players. Maybe it would help me if you could give a full read list. I know that's a big ask, truncated unprocessed thoughts would be a good start (rather then thoroughly processed thoughts on fewer players).

It'd be nice to get full read list from all the quiet players. Malakandra and Handorin especially.

Trisscar : although I currently lean towards you being town if several game days later we are running out of reasonable suspects it would be nice to have a trail of accountability from you so I can evaluate you more accurately. If you could give a reads list where you actually say who you think it's likely to be mafia and who is likely to be town that would help a lot.

 

[fontisian]

Cuthalion Are you alright? No showing is super unlike you.

 

[Cuthalion]

Cuthalion Are you alright? No showing is super unlike you.

thank you for asking

i'm fine, just unexpectedly beset by time draws, which makes the whole subbing in experience a bit more difficult

i've resolved to skim EoD1 and the posts today and get into actually realtiming and discussing stuff, the whole game probably isn't going to happen at this rate

that said, the usual if there are any particularly noteworthy things people think i should look at, i'd be more than happy to do so

and sorry for not being around more, i know it's not the most fun for anyone

 

[Trisscar]

Trisscar : although I currently lean towards you being town if several game days later we are running out of reasonable suspects it would be nice to have a trail of accountability from you so I can evaluate you more accurately. If you could give a reads list where you actually say who you think it's likely to be mafia and who is likely to be town that would help a lot.

I think Ranmaru was maf for reasons I'm not going to expand upon.

I still think your reaction to my role drop was overly aggressive for what it was. I do realize that may be a community bias but nobody else reacted quite that harshly. Granted that Hando joined in nearly immediately, but as recent discussion has shown that's not exactly a glowing recommendation.

I literally glossed over the entire Ranmaru vs Xivii argument. Everything else they've said has been inoffensive in any noticeable way.

Jackrito has yet to offend in any capacity.

Deadbananas' claim is complicated in mechanics and therefore unlikely. That does not make it impossible but it does make it suspicious.

Logic does not feel helpful somehow.

While others are slightly one side of the fence or the other, I'm currently not pinning anyone else to one side solidly. Obviously we have one confirmed non voting town with one of my susp reads as a voting partner. We also have two confirmed town dead, one of which is replaced with Wiisp for the day.

-------------------------------------

If we assume 4 mafia, and possibly one neutral or another maf, that means where we were at start 12/4 or 11/5. We are now for one day either 11/4, 12/3 if Dead is mafia giving up their vote for whatever reason; 10/5 or 11/4.

There were two kills last night, lending credence to the ideas that either:

- There are two mafia kill roles
- There is one mafia kill role (at least one that was active last night due to choice or mechanics) and one neutral kill role
- There is at least one mafia or neutral kill role, and a town kill role that was active last night and simply has not said anything, possibly to try to convince mafia that there IS a neutral killing role

The third seems unlikely, and either of the other two are possible and in fact likely due to 16 starting players.

Either of the first two mean that town is likely to go down in number at a rate of two per day on average. Wisp will not be around to guilt Dead into voting how they wish irregardless of Dead's actual alignment.
That means we lose at least three town (and possibly one sudo town if Dead is maf) tomorrow, assuming a neutral killing does not hit a mafia.
That leaves the split at 8/4 if no neutral, or 7/5 if one neutral. This assumes no result from the lynch here today, mostly because that is a lot of confusing numbers in one post.

Ya'll better be damn sure you have a mafia in today's lynch sights, is what all this basically means. Because after today we will have one day of likely majority before things go down the bloody tubes.

 

[Trisscar]

Of course I could be entirely off base about the ratios. But any lower and maf would be easily killed off, and any higher might leave this game at three days long period. Either seems unfair frankly.

 

[BoomFrog]

I think BoomFrog might also be suffering from TMI

BoomFrog always has more information then you.


Spak Did you follow Crossover to the end? Do you remember the result?

Deadbananas' claim is complicated in mechanics and therefore unlikely. That does not make it impossible but it does make it suspicious.

But 3DSNinja's role was also quite complex and the many people have stated that the mod is reputed to use "very creative" roles. So doesn't that alleviate most of the suspicion?

There is at least one mafia or neutral kill role, and a town kill role that was active last night and simply has not said anything, possibly to try to convince mafia that there IS a neutral killing role

The third seems unlikely, and either of the other two are possible and in fact likely due to 16 starting players.

The meta in this format is that if a Vig did shoot DB they should not claim now. We don't gain a lot from knowing it was a town shot, and we do lose a lot from the vig outing themselves.

Also thank you for the detailed thoughts.

 

[Trisscar]

BoomFrog always has more information then you.


Spak Did you follow Crossover to the end? Do you remember the result?

But 3DSNinja's role was also quite complex and the many people have stated that the mod is reputed to use "very creative" roles. So doesn't that alleviate most of the suspicion?

The meta in this format is that if a Vig did shoot DB they should not claim now. We don't gain a lot from knowing it was a town shot, and we do lose a lot from the vig outing themselves.

Also thank you for the detailed thoughts.

True.... but it's more the complicated interaction between different player's actions, and less about the role itself.

Weird, you'd think that confirming that one of the kills wasn't scum-targeting would be more useful, but aight.

 

[Handorin]

Dang, I get busy for one day (still busy, btw), and I already come back and people say I'm inactive.

Oh, I'm getting lynched now? Sounds good. Sure. This game is getting boring now. Too little thinking, just the auto bus of me with meaningless jabber around it, nothing real.

bessie Quantity of content is by feel, but if I had to quantify it, it would be something like number of interesting interactions/opinions of other players. With a multiplier bonus for variety of players. Maybe it would help me if you could give a full read list. I know that's a big ask, truncated unprocessed thoughts would be a good start (rather then thoroughly processed thoughts on fewer players).

It'd be nice to get full read list from all the quiet players. Malakandra and Handorin especially.

Trisscar : although I currently lean towards you being town if several game days later we are running out of reasonable suspects it would be nice to have a trail of accountability from you so I can evaluate you more accurately. If you could give a reads list where you actually say who you think it's likely to be mafia and who is likely to be town that would help a lot.

I will refer you to my last town/scum post. I have not had time to keep up with the past, I dunno 5 pages that have been posted since I was last able to log in?

 

[Spak]

Spak Spak Did you follow Crossover to the end? Do you remember the result?

I did at the time, but that was years ago and I don't recall the result (and can't check). Don't even remember what my own alignment was tbh lol.

 

[Malakandra]

Ordered reads list:

Spoiler: Town:

Fonti- I trust the Z claim and this slot has also had good content.
Boom- Boom has stood out to me as a solid town option. He has been a bit aggressive but I feel that in his case that is more indicative of town, he has appeared genuinely frustrated when dealing with certain people, and that frustration appeared to come from a town perspective.
Bananas- I trust the role claim, and his content has started to get better.
Bessie- This slot has appeared to be genuinely frustrated when dealing with people bringing up post count and I'm reading that as town since I don't think scum would be able to fake the frustration.
Pythag- Nothing has stood out to me scum wise and has some content, mainly some questions, that appear more town.
Spak- Not much to go on here, I find his take on Bananas to be wrong but I think his suspicion at the role is more town and his logical take through going through different options of how the play could come about.
Trisscar- I've pushed this slot enough, and while the defence wasn't solid, I think their explanation towards EoD yesterday was valid.
Xivii- This slot hasn't done much to impress me, and I feel their reluctance to fill out Wiisp's game thing is odd.
Cuthlu- I need to see more out of this slot today to properly judge them. I have mixed feelings about Ran, so im waiting to see if that was because of the slot, or because of Ran.

Spoiler: Scum

Jack- I still feel the same way about Jack I stated in #1404.
Sabrar- Asking about bringing up a thing on Handorin felt weird, and I don't buy the excuse that is was to avoid thread clutter. He's also been cryptically vague a few times. IE not giving reasoning for dead vote and #1453
Logic- here's my take on logic, nothing has really changed. It also has my take on Handorin. #1404
Handorin-refer to above link as well, cept for the voting part.

Vote Logic

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar- IE not giving reasoning for dead vote

I actually explained it in #1249.

 

[Malakandra]

I actually explained it in #1249.

ah I missed that, my apologies.

 

[Wiisp]

Malakandra
why did you choose logic for your vote?

 

[Malakandra]

I voted Handorin before but was told we weren't voting him today. Logic is my next biggest scum lean

 

[Wiisp]

Sabrar
whats your overall read on Boom as it stands

Malakandra
fair, still debating if I should actually lean that way, looking back at his treatment of Triss who also claimed vanilla

 

[osieorb18]

Votecount 2.2​

A duck walked into a bar. The duck asked the bartender

"Do you have a message for me?"

The bartender shook her head no. The duck went back home to the pond. The duck came back to the bar the next day and asked the bartender again

"Do you have a message for me?"

The bartender again shook her head no. The duck went back home to the pond. The duck came back to the bar the next day again and asked the bartender yet again

"Do you have a message for me?"

The bartender yet again shook her head no. The duck went back home to the pond. The duck came back to the bar the next day yet again.

"Do you have a message for me?"

The bartender, frowning, shook her head no. The duck went back home to the pond. The duck came back to the bar the next day yet again.

"Do you have a message for me?"

The bartender, clearly agitated, shook her head no. This time, the duck drank until it could barely stand, then went back home to the pond.

The next day, the bartender was reading the news and saw in the obituaries that the duck had died. The bartender shook her head no and said:

"This is why it's a bad idea to drink and dive."

Jackrito (1) - BoomFrog
BoomFrog (1) - Jackrito
Cuthalion (1) - Deadbananas
Xivii (1) - LogicoftheVI
LogicoftheVI (1) - Malakandra

Not Voting: Bessie, Cuthalion, fontisian, Handorin, Sabrar, Spak, Trisscar, Xivii, Pythag,

Day 2 Lynch Deadline will be Friday, May 29th at 10:15 PM PST.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar
whats your overall read on Boom as it stands

My issue with his play are his ideas of "It is unlikely to catch scum D1 so I might as well drop the wagon" and "Too many people are voting the slot, better switch fast" as those are not reliable and can be used to hide papertrail. His content that relates to solving the game is townie, engaging multiple people and following up on questions. He seemingly tries to solve the game but this part is more easily faked so I'm wary of him.

 

[Wiisp]

Sabrar
thanks for that response, I can get behind that, I would be like lying to myself if I said he wasn't doing townie things
I wonder if we should just lynch bottoms up right now? in terms of post count
some of you might hate that, but I reckon that will get more hits than you think

 

[Wiisp]

its probably just Handorin here
I think his handling of Triss and his handling of his own claim, say a lot
the problem is, I dont believe that Triss is the only town vanilla if he his town
that gives me hestitation

 

[Sabrar]

I wonder if we should just lynch bottoms up right now? in terms of post count
some of you might hate that, but I reckon that will get more hits than you think

Are you adding D1 and D2 together? If yes, how do you handle the replacements? Are you disregarding claims entirely?
I'm generally a fan of lynching lurkers but not as an exclusive reason.