String Buffering / Down Tilt -> Sliding Jab Buffer

[Kisamealex3]

Hello, Peaches. My tag is 3x and I'm a Peach from New Jersey. I'm making this thread to bring something to everybody's attention that I think is potentially valuable. I know everybody knows the Down Tilts makes you slide. I know everybody knows frames are delayed when you hit something. Just bare with me, haha.

I was playing around today with False today and he suggested that I were to go into the training room and practice my little techy things like float cancels and stuff after I was done BEATING him *cough*.

However, I decided to choose Sheik and practice jab cancelling in the training room because, I'm picking her up. This time, for some odd reason, I decided to go to Shadow Moses Island and practice jab cancelling on the walls that you can hit. Why? Well, I figured it would help me NOT mess up when doing it on an opponent since my frames are delayed when I hit. If I didn't choose Shadow Moses, I would have stood on FD just jab cancelling on the space in front of me.

At that moment, I had an epiphany and a flash back. I remembered when I was looking at some Peach videos and I came across Yami. That man is very talented with Peach xD.

He did something that caught my eye. It was a B-Air string. Here's the clip of him doing it. At that point, I became curious and I wanted to be able to do that. I practiced float cancelling every aerial I could for a week. I made it routine to float cancel each aerial across FD 3 times. That way, I had gained two things: the ability to u-air string and use that b-air string.

But, I didn't really gain anything. I remember I went to Pwii's Farewell Smashfest and I was excited to try to pull these things off. When I would attempt to string after setting them up, I would mess up. It was aggravating and I didn't understand why I couldn't do it.

Sure, there are many variables to take into account but, when it comes down to it, I didn't practice doing those strings while hitting something. I wasn't buffering correctly.

Here's what I really want to bring to other Peaches' attentions:

I don't know if the B-air string is frame perfect or if it works on all characters but, I do know it's worth looking into. I don't see anything about it on the boards here.

Earlier I went into the training room, laid down as many sandbags as I could across FD and put the # of computers to 3. I spammed back air like no other and I tried to get the buffering down again.

This isn't the only thing that got brought to my attention. I also remembered when I was playing NAKAT. I down-tilted his shield and jabbed while sliding away. He tried to shield grab me and got punished WHILE I slid out of his reach.

I'm sorry but I think that's so awesome lol. It makes me think about using down-tilt on shield more, considering if it's frame safe and the character I'm playing against.

I summoned more sandbags and got practicing and I think down-tilt -> sliding jab is worth looking into (especially on shields). I don't know anything about the frame data but, maybe somebody could look into it?

3x

EDIT:

I had a talk with RJ and asked him a couple of questions about frame data. This aim conversation reveals a couple of things.

Spoiler

RJ Rawrr 2:43 pm
Mk, any questions outside of this?
Like, detailed ones

jordanaw94 2:43 pm
when i down tilt on somebody's shield

RJ Rawrr 2:43 pm
I do know data and physics so I could just answer a decent amount of anyhting
thing*

jordanaw94 2:44 pm
how many frames is the person stuck in their shield?

RJ Rawrr 2:44 pm
depends on the move

jordanaw94 2:44 pm
down tilt
peach's down tilt

RJ Rawrr 2:44 pm
Each move has different shield lag

RJ Rawrr 2:45 pm
Her down tilt iirc is 5 or 6
Let me look for her data
h/o a sec

jordanaw94 2:45 pm
kk

RJ Rawrr 2:48 pm
Mk found it
just looking it over
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246380
if you wanna look too
Yea
I was right lol
On shield drop its 6
but OOS straight is -13
3 hit stun
shield stun*
So even if you slide backwards a little, you can get grabbed with a good amount of leeway

RJ Rawrr 2:51 pm
if they drop shield their only option is grab or anything faster then frame 6
thats with shield stun already calculated into that

jordanaw94 2:51 pm
so if I jab, can it hit them if they try to grab?

RJ Rawrr 2:51 pm
So sliding back into jab could be semi useful if the character has poor OOS options
You can, but they have 1 frame above you
Meaning, tech, they can grab you before you can jab
but they have a 2 frame window
1*
if your going to jab, they have a 3 frame window

jordanaw94 2:52 pm
so if they don't have a...lets say drame 1 option, they can't really do anything?
6*
well

RJ Rawrr 2:53 pm
not with shield dropping

jordanaw94 2:53 pm
****, i ****ed up the question
lol

RJ Rawrr 2:53 pm
Its ok, I knew what you meant lol
Ill reexplain it
just to be more clear
You have 6 frames of lag before you are able to input an action if you Dtilt.
So if a person drops shield, their only option, unless they have a frame 1 jab, is to grab or shield
if you choose to jab after the Dtilt
they have a 2 frame window
You jab comes out frame 2
so you have an additonal frame of lag before you are able to hit them

RJ Rawrr 2:55 pm
additional*
So characters with a 2 frame jab, if you decide to jab, can tie or win the jab war

jordanaw94 2:55 pm
i see
this is good, thank you sir

RJ Rawrr 2:56 pm
Also, the B-air string is SDI able
if they fail to SDI properly, you can just hit them again.
or jump, for that matter lol

jordanaw94 2:56 pm
i see

So, if the character doesn't have a frame 2 option, jab can connect. Thoughts? Maybe it has to be spaced, etc.

 

[pwiito]

umm i c where thou getting at, pppl should look into this

 

[NAKAT]

I wonder what the other Peaches have to say about this

 

[z00ted]

why are two non peach players posting in a thread before we do

and yeah, the bair thing is something some Peaches around here do - it's not widely known because it's pretty hard to pull off and your opponent might not be DI'ing at all

the d-tilt -> jab thing has been used by myself and a few other players around here so it's not huge but it's still known

i believe i addressed both these techniques in my "advancing peach's metagame thread"

 

[Kisamealex3]

Well, the point of the thread is to bring it to everybody's attention. I know they've been mentioned before/done before but, as you said, it's not huge here.

The main questions that I'm asking in the thread is "are these things frame safe?" Is down-tilting safe on some characters' shield if you slide with a jab? If so, which characters? Does the b-air string ACTUALLY work?

They probably name searched themselves, btw.

~~~~

Edited main post

 

[LanceStern]

Made a whole video about this and strategy starts at 1:20 or just watch the whole thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aueqivY5Isc

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Wait, this is a sliding D Tilt thread isn't it

Oh hang on, not quite. You almost had me fooled ;D

Umm ok - yes, you can avoid grabs whilst sliding away with D Tilt but if they're going to go for a grab your opponent shouldn't be grabbing you then - they should be grabbing you just after D Tilt hits their shield whilst Peach is leaned right into them

I (but when am I ever not about these kinds of things) am skeptical about D Tilt being frame safe on shield due to how much Peach leans in. It would have to be spaced quite well I would imagine. This is definitely not the sort of thing you want to do vs DeDeDe (believe me I tried )


Edit: Oh crumbs I just noticed the 2 frame jab thingy, my bad!

Well, if your opponent doesn't choose to grab/if you space the D Tilt well enough, it sounds potentially dangerous against characters with large grabs or those who shrug off the jabs hit with grab armour or those with good Up + B OoS options but otherwise it could prove a nice mix up to your usual Fair to Jab if you mix it in with Floating shenanigans

 

[Kisamealex3]

Made a whole video about this and strategy starts at 1:20 or just watch the whole thing

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=aueqivY5Isc

I don't see anything besides how to make 3D glasses xD. Either I'm blind or you need to resend the link because, I would love to see the vid.

Wait, this is a sliding D Tilt thread isn't it

Oh hang on, not quite. You almost had me fooled ;D

Umm ok - yes, you can avoid grabs whilst sliding away with D Tilt but if they're going to go for a grab your opponent shouldn't be grabbing you then - they should be grabbing you just after D Tilt hits their shield whilst Peach is leaned right into them

I (but when am I ever not about these kinds of things) am skeptical about D Tilt being frame safe on shield due to how much Peach leans in. It would have to be spaced quite well I would imagine. This is definitely not the sort of thing you want to do vs DeDeDe (believe me I tried )


Edit: Oh crumbs I just noticed the 2 frame jab thingy, my bad!

Well, if your opponent doesn't choose to grab/if you space the D Tilt well enough, it sounds potentially dangerous against characters with large grabs or those who shrug off the jabs hit with grab armour or those with good Up + B OoS options but otherwise it could prove a nice mix up to your usual Fair to Jab if you mix it in with Floating shenanigans

Well, I figured since it has the same range as her golf club (which is farther than MK's f-tilt, for example), it may be a good poking option from a far. Most characters don't have a grab that can reach and because she's low, a lot of punishing options miss (surprisingly enough). If you're that far, instead of going for the jab, you get a free retreating turnip.

Besides, if they don't shield, it's a good 10%.

I know EVERYBODY knows this but, it definitely has its uses. It's deeper than her just sliding back (whoopdie-doo ).

 

[LanceStern]

I don't see anything besides how to make 3D glasses[xD. Either I'm blind or you need to resend the link because, I would love to see the vid.

Whoops. Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aueqivY5Isc

 

[deepseadiva]

The main problem with dtilt has always been the start-up time. I've always called it the "land fair" since it's beautiful once it's out, but it's soooo slooooow. It's never gonna win in any boxing situations due to that speed, and like Lance said in his video, if jab doesn't cut it we're kinda ****ed. Turnips solve that range/speed issue though.

I don't think I've ever found major success with dtilt since a lot of characters do grounded spacing so much better. MK, Marth, and Snake all cover the same amount of space in a third of the frames. The best use I've found has been dtilt as a response - MK's ftilt lag for example, but those situations are pretty rare.

What I've found to be marginally more interesting is using that slide as an approach. I discovered that doing a dtilt in one direction, then pivot walking into an ftilt sends her flying quite a good distance. It's tight timing, but no one expects Peach to be in that space so suddenly. It might work with her smashes, but I've yet to test them.

It works really well with dsmash too. Dtilt to sliding dsmash covers all grounded ledge options.

 

[Zwarm]

I actually landed a dtilt to sliding up smash against DLA's Sheik while playing yesterday. You get a much bigger boost than a dash up smash if timed correctly. I can't see it working more than once or twice in a match unless you catch their landing with it, though. However, it is nice to be able to land sweetspotted up smashes on grounded characters sometimes.

 

[LanceStern]

I like to dtilt to uptilt, the slide is crazy and like Meno said: people don't expect you to cover the distance so fast.

I DO like dtilt to jab though. I gotta do it more

 

[Kisamealex3]

After reading what everybody said, I spent some time in the training room and playing another smasher from my town doing the down tilt tricks and I have to say:

D-tilt > D smash works so well. Especially when you notice your opponent has a rolling habit when they get nervous.

D-tilt > U-tilt is HUUUUUUUGE but, it's never connected. Usable in doubles, I suppose. I'd rather get a huge slide picking up a turnip.

D-tilt > Jab is really good on characters with bad grab ranges. If they have a good grab range or a fast jab (in that case, you would probably get jabbed before the d-tilt came out), you will probably get punished. Obviously, don't make a habit of it.

D-tilt > Turnip pull is really good on characters with bad grab ranges (or if you space really well). Poking at character's shields and pulling a turnip is pretty safe considering you'll be out of their punishing range (always with good spacing). Though, I'm sure everybody knows this.