Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[Chi's Finest]

You've actually just proven nothing. We already established that it's casual players who will more than likely jump right into the Subspace Emissary. While the competitive players jump right into VS mode until they get bored with the characters. Competitive players are not in the majority of the smasher population....casuals are. And I'm sure Sakurai is aware of this.

According to a thread a made a while back, competitive players are also jumping right into Sinle player. No one really wanted to jump into VS mode and wanted to start out with SSE. I think it's safe to say that pretty much everyone is going to do single player first.

 

[Boofer]

According to a thread a made a while back, competitive players are also jumping right into Sinle player. No one really wanted to jump into VS mode and wanted to start out with SSE. I think it's safe to say that pretty much everyone is going to do single player first.

I'm gonna test out each character in multiplayer first. Probably not for a long time though. Right afterwards I'll jump right into single player.

 

[RandomGuy42]

I too will definitely go into Vs. Mode first. I want to try out some newcomers (Meta Knight!) plus my brother won't LET me go on my own first.

Though you can do co-op Subspace, I suppose. I still want to do it on my own first.

 

[Croco]

I believe they might show one more 3rd party to balance out the newcomers with the returning veterans.
12 and 12..
24 characters revealed before the game comes out sounds like a good number.

 

[Rsflone]

Remember if you go to the E for all update on the Dojo notices Sakurai stricktly says "the problem is Sonic, what to do, i guess since were going through all the trouble we might as well make him PLAYABLE" its under notices on the Dojo which explains why he is playable from the start why should they be able to play with him at e for all but not the final game when they buy it that just wouldnt make any sense?

 

[Thedude3445]

I agree with this. I don't get why people are rejecting it so much.

 

[Ameba]

And on another note, todays update hid the character select screen again when explaining the Team Battle Mode. I honestly believe the reason that the E for All demo screen was shown was because he wanted to show the unique features of the online mode selection screen, such as the "Seeking" box, stage and icon tabs, and 40 second timer, without breaking it up into seperate screens or making it look messy. I guess it appealed to him better to have some form of select screen there instead of a blurred-out mess, unless you have some better answer.

I completely agree with this point. The main reason why Sakurai included the demo roster in that screenshot is because he wanted to show the features of the online mode (such as the timer, the "Seeking" thingy, Item/Stage selection buttons, etc), but he didn't want to blurr out the entire roster. Why? Because it would look quite messy. A screenshot of the game is supposed to give us information in a clean and understandable way. I think Sakurai blurred out the roster in the "Names" update screenshot because he wanted to show us only this particular feature, and it wasn't necessary to show the entire screen. This screenshot doesn't look messy at all because it's a zoomed-in version of the character selection screen.

Isn't that kinda normally what people do with new games? Jump right into the single player mode?
They either go straight into the main story which may or may not have a ******-proof first level tutorial, or hop into tutorial mode (if the game has one).

I think people here are forgetting that Smash Bros. is a FIGHTING game. The first thing people want to try out once they get a fighting game is a mode where they can fight with the characters of the game. I know that the SSE has fighting elements inserted in it, but it is mainly a platformer where you have to get across several levels defeating enemies, entering doors, etc. On the other hand, VS. Mode is just fighting with the characters of the game, making it the mode that most people want to play because it's the heart of Smash Bros. Even Classic mode seems to be more suitable for a beginner than Adventure mode.

The more recent screenshot has a P2 Entry on the side there. But, the older screenshot is missing this:

So that could mean that they don’t always go back and update these pictures and/or that the co-op events mode is an unlockable mode (maybe after you play SSE through once with co-op?).

Maybe that happened because the P2 entry thing appears only when 2 or more controllers are connected into the Wii. Probably, in the 1P Events screenshot, Sakurai was playing with only one controller connected.

I hope my post was understandable, since my English is far from being perfect.

 

[xbrinkx]

I believe this has been said before, but this quote really does nothing but say that he's not going to prevent people from seeing hidden characters online. Imo, this statement almost fits in with the "anti-theory" more than the theocracy.

Look at the usage of the word "hidden" to describe the characters. Why is he using this word? If these characters are on the boxart AND on his own site, why would he say that they are "hidden?" It seems to me the proper word would be "unlockable," because we know that the two aren't synonymous.

Also, it makes no sense to call a character on the official boxart "hidden." Unlockable, maybe, but hidden? No way.

I thought the statement Sakurai made was saying that he was being more laid back about secret characters. -.-

From what I've been reading it seems like everyone hates SSE without even giving it a chance. C'mon guys, it's going to rock.

 

[SmashChu]

I am not saying that people cannot disagree. I just have yet to hear a convincing opposite theory that attempts to make sense of the recent updates. It seems that people are more interested in shredding small segments of the theoracy (in hopes of eventually tearing it all down) instead of proposing an overall rebuttal. I would be interested to see a well-structured argument revolving around the idea that all current DOJO characters are the starting roster. SP put a ton of thought into this theory, and it is quite stable as a result. The rebuttals are tiny disagreements, and somehow these all add up to SP being wrong. >_>

I think a lot of people here have brought evidence to disprove it.

But you know what, I'll take your challenge. I will make an large counter-argument. Just don't lock this topic before I do

 

[2007]

@SamuraiPanda:
ahhh... I get it now. I also read what you said about Sakurai not updating the old pictures that changed (BTW, somewhere around Meta-Knight's Final Smash the dimensions were changed from 450x329 to 450x315) and that is by all means true. Anyone who wants proof can go look at the july 12th update, where an omnious DECEMBER 3RD, 2007 still sits mocking those who see it.
in other words, good post. I still have doubts on the Kirby schi-bang, but you made valid points which, come February 10th, will make a fool out of me yet...
=2007=

 

[omiz144]

What about the latest update? The character selection on the team brawl section is not shown, opting for an awkward zoomed-in pic. If they already showed the starting roster, then why would they do that?

 

[VisetheStompy]

Sorry starting friends icon list, you may be the the list casual readers will assume is the starting friends icon list, but apparently you are not an important enough to argue against

R.I.P Friends Icon Page Argument =P

 

[lilparadise]

What about the latest update? The character selection on the team brawl section is not shown, opting for an awkward zoomed-in pic. If they already showed the starting roster, then why would they do that?

To zoom in on the colored flags just incase you couldn't clearly see them.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I think a lot of people here have brought evidence to disprove it.

But you know what, I'll take your challenge. I will make an large counter-argument. Just don't lock this topic before I do

I disagree with the word "evidence". No one has brought any hard evidence to the table suggesting that the theoracy has absolutely no credibility. Everyone brings pieces of opposing theories. SamuraiPanda came up with one large theory that engulfs the current state of things. He analyzed various elements and clumped them together in such a way that makes a lot of sense. Evidence would be Sakurai saying, "This is the E4All demo roster again. It is not the final starting roster." Instead, people are just analyzing updates (with the same amount of credibility as the theoracy itself) and say, "I see Kirby in the selection screen! Disproved!" Of course, people are presenting viable indications that disprove the theoracy, but no matter who presents a theory (or what the theory is about), enough people would gather with "contradicting evidence" to make it "not true". It's just the way things go.

Imagine for a second that someone posted a theory regarding Ice Climbers' return (someone probably did long ago). There were huge amounts of evidence against it. Not only did the ICs come from an incredibly unpopular game, there was even "evidence" of Sakurai saying that such veterans would not be returning. Lo and behold, they are now in the game. You have to keep an open mind when discussing theories. Again, I have yet to see any hard proof that makes the theoracy outright wrong.

Regardless, I do look forward to the few of you who decided to work on counter theories. I am very interested in theories that take into account everything Sakurai is doing on the DOJO, and I may read one that sways my opinion.

 

[xbrinkx]

You know, after much thought... I think this thread should be closed once and for all. No one seems to agree on anything.

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

Hey I don't know if this has been brought up before but about the whole Zelda unlockable by rescuing her thing, you can actually select her before that segment to fight off a wave of primids. It's one of the E 4 ALL vids where you can select between Mario, Kirby, Peach and Zelda.

 

[papagenos]

it's a neat theory and you can't PROV it wrong.

but use common sense, that isn't the starting roster.

it's not worth argueing because there are alot of things you can say to make the theory seem "weaker" but you can't yet prov that it isn't the starting roster. until we know what the starting roster is it can't be proven what it isn't.

the only reason you'd subscribe to this theory is cause you'd like to know the starting roster NOW but the fact is we just don't know yet, so just because you can make a really good arguement how this theory COULD be it, it doesn't make it the starting roster, especially with so many reasons why it shouldn't be. not that it isn't, just that logically this should not be the starting character selection screen.

the point is more that it could be, thats what samurai panda proved, thsi COULD be the startign selection screen. but if you step back stop trying to prov everything, you know deep down that they didn't show the roster yet.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

You know, after much thought... I think this thread should be closed once and for all. No one seems to agree on anything.

No way. Even with this thread open, stupid people were creating new threads about this thread. Locking this one would only cause a flood of other theory threads. >_<

@Jenkins: How does selecting someone mid-campaign relate to selecting them on the character select screen? If you watch the SSE vids closely, there is a special "select screen" for every instance (usually just 1 & 2). That seems to have no bearing on the main start roster.

 

[Bajef8]

I disagree with the word "evidence". No one has brought any hard evidence to the table suggesting that the theoracy has absolutely no credibility. Everyone brings pieces of opposing theories. SamuraiPanda came up with one large theory that engulfs the current state of things. He analyzed various elements and clumped them together in such a way that makes a lot of sense. Evidence would be Sakurai saying, "This is the E4All demo roster again. It is not the final starting roster." Instead, people are just analyzing updates (with the same amount of credibility as the theoracy itself) and say, "I see Kirby in the selection screen! Disproved!" Of course, people are presenting viable indications that disprove the theoracy, but no matter who presents a theory (or what the theory is about), enough people would gather with "contradicting evidence" to make it "not true". It's just the way things go.

Imagine for a second that someone posted a theory regarding Ice Climbers' return (someone probably did long ago). There were huge amounts of evidence against it. Not only did the ICs come from an incredibly unpopular game, there was even "evidence" of Sakurai saying that such veterans would not be returning. Lo and behold, they are now in the game. You have to keep an open mind when discussing theories. Again, I have yet to see any hard proof that makes the theoracy outright wrong.

Regardless, I do look forward to the few of you who decided to work on counter theories. I am very interested in theories that take into account everything Sakurai is doing on the DOJO, and I may read one that sways my opinion.

how were the ice climbers even thought to not return in the first place? what evidence was there against them returning? in my mind it was obvious they would return. they were unique and original.

 

[xbrinkx]

That actually sounds like it may be right. SamuraiPanda, DO NOT CLOSE THIS TRHEAD! It's not that I want a huge amount of bickering going on all the time, it's just that I hate floods of redone theories.

@papagenos
There's just as much to equal out weakening and strengthening. (Don't kill me) Btw, my common sense tells me that this'll be near to the starting roster. NEAR!

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I always knew the IC were staying. It was obvious. You had to have mental problems if you think they weren't returning.

AND... That is true, Jenkins, Zelda is selectable in another battle against the Primids, before the battle when SPanda argues she could be unlocked in.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It was a freaking example.

 

[Boofer]

I thought the statement Sakurai made was saying that he was being more laid back about secret characters. -.-

From what I've been reading it seems like everyone hates SSE without even giving it a chance. C'mon guys, it's going to rock.

He basically meant he wasn't going to prevent us from seeing those secret characters online. And then, Kirby nor Pokemon trainer would really be a secret character.

I believe this has been said before, but this quote really does nothing but say that he's not going to prevent people from seeing hidden characters online. Imo, this statement almost fits in with the "anti-theory" more than the theocracy.

Look at the usage of the word "hidden" to describe the characters. Why is he using this word? If these characters are on the boxart AND on his own site, why would he say that they are "hidden?" It seems to me the proper word would be "unlockable," because we know that the two aren't synonymous.

Also, it makes no sense to call a character on the official boxart "hidden." Unlockable, maybe, but hidden? No way.

Are there any other thoughts on this argument that I mentioned earlier? Edit: this is not directed at xbrinkx, but at anybody else in the thread.

 

[xbrinkx]

He basically meant he wasn't going to prevent us from seeing those secret characters online. And then, Kirby nor Pokemon trainer would really be a secret character.



Actually, this is before the match in which Panda claims that we unlock Zelda. This is at the beginning of the campaign, which could very well mean that she's already a selectable character in other modes.




Are there any other thoughts on this argument that I mentioned earlier?

... All I have to say is... Over analyzing statements. There's apparently some sort of distinct difference between hidden, secret and unlockable. What else am I going to say? It's not like we know whether characters are hidden and unlockable, so I just said what came to mind. But you didn't get my main point .

 

[Boofer]

... All I have to say is... Over analyzing statements. There's apparently some sort of distinct difference between hidden, secret and unlockable. What else am I going to say? It's not like we know whether characters are hidden and unlockable, so I just said what came to mind. But you didn't get my main point .

LOL, why the thumbs down? This whole thread is over analytical. Why is it that I get noted for it.

I'm just saying that no matter what, people on the box art should NOT be referred to as "hidden." Call it over analytical if you want, but I still say this quote wouldn't have existed if characters like Kirby, Zelda, and Pokemon trainer were secrets simply because they're either on the box art, or on the site..

Also, when I was asking about any other comments on that [small] argument, I wasn't specifically talking to you.

 

[ricydafrog]

i've been think about this ever since i heard it on smyn
even though i don't want it to happen i really have to agree with it. i also want to say this is the most flawless piece of speculation on the boards

-hops away

 

[WeeklyJumpman]

Sonic a starter...? nah.

 

[Grandeza]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up as I wont look through these pages but isnt kirby unlockable and metaknight starter the equivalent of luigi being starter and unlocking mario?

 

[SinisterLizard]

Here's a thought:

From the previous two games, we know that there are three "stages" of characters.

1. Playable - Basically, these are the characters you can select.
2. Locked - These are the blocks with question marks on them
3. Hidden - These are the empty spaces on the sides, SURPRISE! Characters!

This is a good point and you didn't even fully make it. In the past two games the starting roster screen was accompanied by squares with question marks in them, indicating locked characters. In the screen that Sakurai gave us, there are absolutely none. I would think that even if this was the starting roster (which I do doubt), there were at least be some blank squares. To have none seems silly and a blatant flag in the air that this isn't the starting screen.

You could make arguments of course to counter, but...bottom line: There is no more proof that this is the starting roster screen than the contrary, other than the fact that Sakurai showed it. But what you fail to see there is that he only says "You go straight to the character-selection screen." He didn't even go as far as to say that that was it, let alone that it was the starting roster.

And don't give me junk about "well, clearly it's obvious"...Sakurai went out of his way to tell us the Options menu was purple and the slider moves left and right, which were also clearly visible. I think that it's more than reasonable to assume he'd say "Here is the starting roster!" if it was actually it.

 

[gamer8]

Well, this isn't the starting roster, since in today's update Kirby was shown as a starter.

 

[Kio Iranez]

Well, this isn't the starting roster, since in today's update Kirby was shown as a starter.

It doesn't say anywhere that he is a starter. They only show him as being played.

 

[Xanderous]

There really isn't anything to back this theory up...it can hardly be called a theory, even. Just a guess.

A cool guess, but a guess nonetheless.

 

[DeuceBlade]

This is just them playing the demo, wth.

 

[SmashChu]

I disagree with the word "evidence". No one has brought any hard evidence to the table suggesting that the theoracy has absolutely no credibility. Everyone brings pieces of opposing theories. SamuraiPanda came up with one large theory that engulfs the current state of things. He analyzed various elements and clumped them together in such a way that makes a lot of sense. Evidence would be Sakurai saying, "This is the E4All demo roster again. It is not the final starting roster." Instead, people are just analyzing updates (with the same amount of credibility as the theoracy itself) and say, "I see Kirby in the selection screen! Disproved!" Of course, people are presenting viable indications that disprove the theoracy, but no matter who presents a theory (or what the theory is about), enough people would gather with "contradicting evidence" to make it "not true". It's just the way things go.

Imagine for a second that someone posted a theory regarding Ice Climbers' return (someone probably did long ago). There were huge amounts of evidence against it. Not only did the ICs come from an incredibly unpopular game, there was even "evidence" of Sakurai saying that such veterans would not be returning. Lo and behold, they are now in the game. You have to keep an open mind when discussing theories. Again, I have yet to see any hard proof that makes the theoracy outright wrong.

From Wikipedia.....
Evidence in its broadest sense, includes anything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion.

So yes, these things people have brought up are just as much evidence as SP's post. Just because it's brought into small chunks doesn't change that fact. However, one long idea does help bring it all together, were along it gets scattered. Someone saying something about No Kirby (and as long as it has reason) is evidence that discredits the theory. Just becuase it;s not TL;DR doesn't mean it's any less evidence then what SP has posted.

Although it seems a bit long compared to what I said.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Well, this isn't the starting roster, since in today's update Kirby was shown as a starter.

How is that proof he is a starter???

 

[SinisterLizard]

Does no one realize that Sakurai is programming this game? Imagine Debugger mode on steroids...He can change whatever he wants. He can display whatever characters he wants. He can put in the code for online mode on the demo version if he wants...it isn't hard. He's coding the game. Why does this have to be the final version if Sakurai didn't say it outright?

 

[Mad555]

I havent really looked at this thread much but i did hear it in SMYN, so I would like to say the Consipiracy Theoracy seems to be very resonable. SamuraiPanda, i think you caught on to something about Sakurai not caring about character spoilers anymore and i do think he might want us to play all the modes because there are problably good characters to unlock in almost all the modes.
Locking Red(PT) makes sense because he just dosent seem like a starter and right from the start when i heard of him & saw him on the dojo, i thought "Oh, he's definetly going to be locked". And i guess for Wario, we unlock him through Subspace.

Last of all, several people will go "WTF' after seeing Kirby locked (if he is). Same with Zelda.

 

[Luigi player]

This could be true and sounds very logically. I don't really get why people don't like it that way. Yeah, sure, you can't play immediately with PT, or someone else, but that makes me want to play SSE even more! I'd have no problem with this.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If you play 2 player event mode, you play as Mario and Kirby against Bowser and Kind Dedede...

 

[EDreams]

But not everyone does and it'd be completely ridiculous of Sakurai to decide that everyone must play the game in the exact way and fashion and order he deems right after Melee gave you so much choice about how to play and what order to play it in and never forced you to do anything you didn't want to do at all

I'm looking forward to SSE just as much as anyone else, but that sort of decision would be shooting yourself in the foot. You change gameplay elements, but you don't remove such a basic element of player choice, it makes no sense

Why? Nobody has offered ONE logical reason that Sakurai would make such a completely nonsensical decision that totally contradicts the decisions he made in the last game