Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[perpetual ownage]

Captain Falcon is not yet revealed and most probably a starter. Think about it. Dedede is also starter and I agree with everything Homeless vagrant says.

 

[RegalBuster]

I bet everyone who was unlockable in the original will be unlockable again.

 

[perpetual ownage]

I bet everyone who was unlockable in the original will be unlockable again.

That is a possibility. I really doubt however, that the E 4 all roster is the starting roster for the finished game.

 

[Kirbynator23]

Very logical theory but one problem I noticed. On the very same update with that character selection screen there is also a pic that shows how Snake and Zelda are part of the fight yet they are not shown on that character screen.

 

[Kirbynator23]

Oh and since when was Sonic the 3rd party character not unlockable?

 

[A New England Winter]

See, this is all well and good, but I did some looking around, and I found this:

#251-260: Sakurai will make Snake (and all other guest, i.e. 3rd party, characters) into an unlockable character. Sakurai will also eventually reveal all the secret characters (most likely what he did when melee was released: give details on a single starting character every week until release, then after release, give details on one secret character every week until they've all been done).

This is from the translation thread SamuraiPanda made a good year ago, and he translated it from Sakurai himself on the old SmashBros. site. Now, I'm not saying it couldn't have changed, and we definitely haven't been getting any more Character updates in a long time, but pretty much everything else on that list of translated stuff has come to fruition.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

That was a translator's note. My very own commentary, not Sakurai's. Obviously, I couldn't predict the existence of the Dojo, so that comment is now null.

 

[papagenos]

i just think the biggest flaws in that being the strating roster are:

there's characters on the cover of the game who are missing.

a BETTER reason for zelda being left out is so that people couldn't see if she was shiek at the E for all demo.

and the dojo didn't say it was the starting roster. if the dojo does reveal the starting roster i assume that will be an important enough update to really announce it.

 

[Draenic gamer]

About the expanding Character selection screen, Marvel vs Capcom 2 did that exponentially. So I'm going to agree with you there.

 

[Masque]

See, this is all well and good, but I did some looking around, and I found this:

This is from the translation thread SamuraiPanda made a good year ago, and he translated it from Sakurai himself on the old SmashBros. site. Now, I'm not saying it couldn't have changed, and we definitely haven't been getting any more Character updates in a long time, but pretty much everything else on that list of translated stuff has come to fruition.

Clarifying what SamuraiPanda said, his note was in reference to how the Japanese Melee site was run. It was merely speculation as to how Sakurai would be revealing characters for Brawl, but it had no directly corroborating evidence behind it other than the pattern of the previous site. So Sakurai never reneged on an understood "deal," he just didn't do what he did last time.

 

[RandomGuy42]

Ah, didn't see this before.

Anyway, this looks to be proven wrong now, with Dedede being playable in the 3rd Co-op event.

 

[Boofer]

With all of these characters confirmed as playables in the first few events, it seems even more likely that they WILL be starters. Yay!

 

[blayde_axel]

With all of these characters confirmed as playables in the first few events, it seems even more likely that they WILL be starters. Yay!

Did we REALLY have any doubt? lol.

 

[Boofer]

Did we REALLY have any doubt? lol.

I didn't at first, but then people were like "twenty starters are too many" and "dedede will be unlockable." I was starting to think that maybe more than a few people on the dojo were unlockables, but I highly doubt it now.

I guess there's still a SLIM chance that they could be unlocked in SSE, but I don't think so...

 

[Fanewgie]

I didn't at first, but then people were like "twenty starters are too many" and "dedede will be unlockable." I was starting to think that maybe more than a few people on the dojo were unlockables, but I highly doubt it now.

I guess there's still a SLIM chance that they could be unlocked in SSE, but I don't think so...

I think 20 is an acceptable amount. 26 - the number recently theorized from CoroCoro - is most definitely not an acceptable (or even believable) amount, unless the final roster is going to stretch into the mid-40's, which I just don't see happening.

 

[RandomGuy42]

I was also on the "Dedede unlockable" train until the first Events update. This one is just further proof.

EDIT: And now that I look at it again, the "Master the Pokémon Tag Battle" event is co-op Event 2, which contains a playable Pokémon Trainer.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
Good point. Oh, and I'd like to state the fact that Kirby is in the very first event.

The only counter to this statement, would be if Event Mode was something you'd have to unlock.
...which I doubt.

EDIT:
And also, I'd like to make further note that Puke Green Charizard in the thumbnail of event 2 co-op is gross.

 

[SuperLink9]

Interesting theory. My theory was similar, but I thought that the starting roster was all of the characters on the Dojo excl. Sonic and Snake.

That would make 20, you can't get a better number than that.

I also agree with the box art problem. Sakurai said that "people will easily find out the unlockables from the internet" but what if they were purposefully having a media blackout? You can't media Blackout the box! If Pokémon Trainer, Wario and Kirby are on the box, that makes me doubt the theory. You never know though... not much more than a month until we'll know though hey?

Oh, and Event mode has Dedede in the first match. Unless Event mode is unlockable (not unlikely, even though Sakurai hasn't mentioned it) then that would make Dedede a starter character.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Yeah I see this conspiracy as dead. Still gotta give props to SP for at least defending his theory with real logic.

 

[JPSChampagne]

Forgive me if this has been said, as I didn't have the time to read through all 500+ replies, but I think this character select screen was just a good stand-in for the real one. A lot of the reasons certain characters were excluded from the demo have been forgotten by now.

For example. Lucas is absent because it would have spoiled that his moveset was replacing Ness. Wario wasn't there because his final smash hadn't been revealed yet. Also, from what I heard, Kirby wasn't included because of issues with his copy ability. For all we know, Zelda wasn't included because it would spoil Sheik.

As for Sonic's inclusion - Sakurai stated, in his comments about E For All, "The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable."

This implies that Sonic will, in fact, be unlockable upon the initial launch of the game.

The arrangement of characters also reminds me of the Melee demo, where characters were arranged in a radically different way than they were in the actual game.

While I think every character (besides Sonic) pictured here will be a starter, I think it is much more realistic to think that this was just a placeholder character selection screen, so as not to reveal the actual one, which may contain a character or two that we haven't been informed of yet.

 

[Corax The Cold]

heh im just poking fun at the title of this thread, i think the starting roster is already revealed on the dojo, cause its all the characters revealed so far

 

[Flaminglink]

On today's update Pokemon trainer was on event number 5, so will we unlock pokemon trainer early or is he a starting character? so the thoery does make more sense i guess. But on the other hand for Co op play pokemon trainer is event number 2 so it is possible that he is a starting character since he is on the box.

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

Well, I'd say today's update did a pretty good job of supporting the other side of the theory. All of these events are available from the beginning of the game and they all involve PLAYING as characters that are supposedly unlockable. I think that with all of these characters being playable so early in event mode (such as Kirby being in the very first one) helps to prove that many of these guys are indeed starters.

 

[soviet prince]

yeah this does help support this theory being false, heck you can be kirby if youplay the 1st event in co-op mode.

 

[General Diddy]

Unlocking Kirby just doesn't make sense.

 

[The Nerd]

Very well thought out theory, but the event mode updates, as you've already heard, wreck it pretty badly. Still, good job on explaining why the counter-arguments aren't valid, although I couldn't help but think it was wrong, simply due to the fact Kirby has been in the starting roster of two games, and it would be odd if they changed a character who has always been a started into an unlockable, but have the villain from the same franchise be a starter. Otherwise, good theory.

 

[Flaminglink]

Kirby is on the box art right?

 

[Super Smash Master]

This theory is false. Why does it make sense for Peach to be on the starting roster and Zelda not, when you have to choose which of them to save in the start of Subspace. Zelda obviously wasn't included, because she is a character with special properties (transformation). This is the same reason why Ice climbers (multi-characters), Lucas (psychic controls), pkmn trainer (transformation), etc.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
The theory isn't false, it's just unlikely.

Your comment about Lucas is just nonsense, and your comment about Zelda not being included because of her "special properties" is easily debunked with Samus. And I think the only reason no other characters were added to the demo list is because no other characters were completely finished yet. Or at least as far as non-spoiler characters go.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

^^^^
The theory isn't false, it's just unlikely.

Unless we have to unlock Co-op Events. This theory is pretty much False. as almost all of us hoped. (or maybe all of us?).

But theres still a chance for it to be true.

 

[soviet prince]

I am having a hard time believing it as well there to much things pointing the other way.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Most of the counter arguments revolve around analyzing Sakurai's past patterns. I have yet to see an indisputable statement completely proving the theoracy false. Sure, the theoracy may end being flat out wrong, we have no proof either way regarding the starting roster. Even Sakurai's past quotes are no longer credible since he changes things and repeals old ideas.

 

[omiz144]

What about the box art? The box art features Kirby, Pokemon Trainer, and Wario. Shouldn't the characters on the box itself, the first characters you see, be in the starting roster?

Just something to toss around.

 

[RegalBuster]

Everyone confirmed on the dogo(save Sonic) is a starting character.

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

Most of the counter arguments revolve around analyzing Sakurai's past patterns. I have yet to see an indisputable statement completely proving the theoracy false. Sure, the theoracy may end being flat out wrong, we have no proof either way regarding the starting roster. Even Sakurai's past quotes are no longer credible since he changes things and repeals old ideas.

Actually the main counter argument now revolves around a feature that's available from the beginning that features characters not shown in the roster screen. There are currently 10 events that are available from the start that feature Wario, Dedede, Pokemon Trainer, and Kirby playable as early as the 1st event. Of course it's not "definitive proof" but it is very incriminating evidence, which leads to the idea that MOST of the characters on the dojo are starters.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

It's a shame no one knows how to master debate in here. Same points, unnbacked ideas, foolish accusations... You people are using THEORIES to disprove a THEORY.

And for the last time, the theory CAN'T be claimed as false until Sakurai, God, and/or Brawl itself say otherwise.

That's why it's a theory. (or... rather, "theoracy".)

 

[Boofer]

Most of the counter arguments revolve around analyzing Sakurai's past patterns. I have yet to see an indisputable statement completely proving the theoracy false. Sure, the theoracy may end being flat out wrong, we have no proof either way regarding the starting roster. Even Sakurai's past quotes are no longer credible since he changes things and repeals old ideas.

Yeah, but what do you think is true? Nothing is absolute until he flat out tells us, but based on these updates the theory looks unlikely, UNLESS event matches are unlockable.

 

[xbrinkx]

Everyone confirmed on the dogo(save Sonic) is a starting character.

That is absolutely ludicrous. I'm tired of this. There won't be over 40 characters! I still think it's a stretch to say anywhere over 35 characters, but that's my opinion.

 

[soviet prince]

That is absolutely ludicrous. I'm tired of this. There won't be over 40 characters! I still think it's a stretch to say anywhere over 35 characters, but that's my opinion.

\
why does 40 characters seem so unreal to you for, anything less and it will seem unfilling.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I don't know. 35 characters seems about the most fair amount to me.

A little more, a little less... as long as it's close to 35.

I'll be content anywhere from 32+.