Stale Move Negation Questions

[pikmin.org]

1) Does SMN affect Olimar's Pikmin Throw? Even though the Pikmin don't deal direct damage (except the purple ones), does SMN affect the damage done by Pikmin that stick on?

2) I take it that Breaking parts of stages (popping the balloon in Smashville, breaking the pillars in Caste Siege) resets Stale Move Negation? Is this true? Was this intentional when designing the game?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

1) Yes.
2) what? do you mean that it counts towards the stale move counter? if so yes. And yeah, it's intentional.

 

[pikmin.org]

What I meant was, is there something special about breaking a breakable part of a stage that unstales your moves more than just spamming moves you aren't going to use? Like, I see people deliberately pop the balloon in Smashville in highly competetive games... There has to be some incentive, right?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Stale moves keeps track of the last 9 moves you used.

The most recent move on this counter is weakened the most, the oldest (number 9) is weakened the least.

A move located in all 9 slots in the counter is weakened quite dramatically.

If a move connects with ANYTHING, be it a stage element, player, shield, or the kind of invincibility that still has hitlag (not intangible like spot dodge, the kind you get when you spawn, if you don't get what I mean by this, pick Captain Falcon and knee someone while they're invincible after spawning), then it takes spot 1 on the counter, moving every move used before it one spot down.

There are some exceptions to this. Some moves that can be used very quickly in succession (such as Lucario's pummel) do not stale for every hit, only for every few hits, dependent on time. Other moves might have low knockback growth, such as a couple of throws, and thus do not stale. Some moves are weirder still, like Dedede's DThrow, and gain knockback (very slight amounts in D3's case) as they are staled, probably just to troll us.

Players attack stage elements because an advantage (slightly unstaling moves) with no risk whatsoever is very, very good.

 

[pikmin.org]

Ok, thanks for the answer!

 

[BirthNote]

Stale moves keeps track of the last 9 moves you used.

If a move connects with ANYTHING, be it a stage element, player, shield, or the kind of invincibility that still has hitlag (not intangible like spot dodge, the kind you get when you spawn, if you don't get what I mean by this, pick Captain Falcon and knee someone while they're invincible after spawning), then it takes spot 1 on the counter, moving every move used before it one spot down.

I thought that it didn't work on shields. A while ago, I saw a tutorial video on the Wii's Nintendo Channel about Brawl. In it, Stale Move Negation was called Move Decay, and the narrator basically said what you said--but mentioned that it doesn't work on shields. Everything else, other than a missed attack did effect the system.

 

[Beninator]

Does each color Pikmin have different SMN?

Do attacks like Raptor Boost and Kirby's Hammer have different SMN when used in the air?

 

[Blissard]

1) Does SMN affect Olimar's Pikmin Throw? Even though the Pikmin don't deal direct damage (except the purple ones), does SMN affect the damage done by Pikmin that stick on?

1) Yes.

The answer depends on exactly what you're asking about. Yes, everytime the Pikmin bites, a move goes into the SMN counter. But the Pikmin Latch damage is set, so white will always be 4% and red/blue/yellow 2%. HOWEVER the damage for Purple toss is not set, and can decay, lol. You'll notice that Oli isn't affected much by SMN cause his moves are always fresh from Pikmin Toss.

Does each color Pikmin have different SMN?

Nope, red usmash is the same as a blue usmash, and so on.

Fun fact:
Oli's yellow usmash has dramatically increased hitstun when it's stale, so if you're in a situation where your opponent is KO'ed but you can still stale your moves on something (Wario's bike, Castle Siege pillars), the usmash will eventually have enough hitstun (31 frames) for you to follow up with a Pikmin Pluck and then ANOTHER USMASH (of any color)!!!

EDIT:

I thought that it didn't work on shields.

You're correct, a hit on a shield doesn't go in the SMN counter. I forget the exact explanation (I'll try to locate the article on Move Decay) but it was something about how your character's attack hitbox didn't actually hit an object's hurtbox.

 

[pikmin.org]

Hey, do Taunts count as a move in your SMN queue?

 

[Blissard]

A taunt has no hitboxes and can't hit anything, so no. Luigi's taunt might actually though lol (his heel-scoff), and MAYBE Snake's box taunt. I'm actually not too sure on those 2 haha. Only 2 taunts in the game with damage iirc.

 

[pikmin.org]

yeah, that's exactly what i was thinking (about Luigi's taunt). Can anyone confirm/deny?

 

[MonkUnit]

luigi's taunt has a hitbox and isnt an article

i'd assume it goes into the stale move queue if you hit with it

 

[BirthNote]

You're correct, a hit on a shield doesn't go in the SMN counter. I forget the exact explanation (I'll try to locate the article on Move Decay) but it was something about how your character's attack hitbox didn't actually hit an object's hurtbox.

Thank you for clarifying that.

 

[FIREL]

yeah, that's exactly what i was thinking (about Luigi's taunt). Can anyone confirm/deny?

Doesnt go stale, it always does 2 damage and it has set knockback. Though im not sure if it can "refresh" other moves. I might test that out.

 

[UltiMario]

People pop the Balloon on Smashville because you unlock Megaman by popping it 1,000,000 times.

Trufax.