Stage Rule #2

[SaveMeJebus]

Strike from a full stage list down to three stages in best of three sets and five in best of five sets. The set will be played on the five stages remaining. DSR and no bans.

 

[Conviction]

Whatchu talkin bout Jebus?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Whatchu talkin bout Jebus?

It's pretty self explanatory

 

[Kink-Link5]

OR, and this is just, putting it out there, OR we could just have a better stagelist made of 7 stages, give 1 stage ban per player, and have the set play out on the remaining 5.

 

[Akaku94]

No. I had an idea like this, and it was quickly shot down because it destroys the counterpick system. If you only play on the three most neutral stages for that matchup, you have no reason to learn your bad stages, since you can just strike them every set.

I would recommend starting with every legal stage, flssing down to 1 for game 1, then doing traditional CPs with 2 bans for the remaining games.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

No. I had an idea like this, and it was quickly shot down because it destroys the counterpick system. If you only play on the three most neutral stages for that matchup, you have no reason to learn your bad stages, since you can just strike them every set.

I would recommend starting with every legal stage, flssing down to 1 for game 1, then doing traditional CPs with 2 bans for the remaining games.

Why should there even be such a thing as a counter pick system for stages? It does nothing but cause problems since the loser not only gets to choose his character but also his stage. If the stages get chosen first, we will no longer have this problem.

 

[Akaku94]

We should reform the system so you can't get Char and Stage CP together. Being able to pick what stage you play on is an integral part of the cp system, but admittedly having both is a little much...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

players still get to CP stages, it's just from a smaller stage list.

 

[Akaku94]

If you strike from a dozen or more down to 3 or 5, every stage there is going to be very close to neutral for that matchup. If you want to prevent hard counters in stages, add more bans (something you advocate strongly, I believe); more bans is a good idea if coupled with more stages.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

If you strike from a dozen or more down to 3 or 5, every stage there is going to be very close to neutral for that matchup.

What's wrong with that? The same thing is going to happen if you add more bans.

 

[Akaku94]

The difference is that you're banning everything but 3 or 5 stages, while with bans, you only ban down to 2 or 4 fewer than the full list...

 

[Tesh]

Off the top of my head, using Sonic, Pit and Wario, I could strike to include YI:B, Frigate and/or Delfino or something and have a strong CP regardless.

If you want something as close to neutral as possible, then just do character CPing only and strike for every single match.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I still think this is making it way more complicated than it has to be. With 7 good stages and the ability to strike out the strongest one in a particularly strong matchup (IC's on FD, MK on Halberd, etc), you keep the stages varied and relatively fair.

 

[Judo777]

How do you decide the order of stages after that? Also how would this factor into to possibly switching characters?

For instance lets say I play IC's and second GW, based off the initial game the other player plays Rob, so naturally I'm gonna want as badly as possible to keep the stages pretty flat, and for the sake of example he strikes awfully and we get FD, BF, SV, YI, PS1. This is a perfect stage list for IC's (at least as far as I know, pretend it is), and as a result the other play gets wrecked the first game and realizes how dumb the stages are, so he swaps to some character that ***** IC's (I realize such a character doesn't exist but lets say that it does) well that's ok I got my handy, dandy back up GW (who we'll say ***** this mystery character), but oh wait........ I struck stages for IC's, not for GW.......... so now I'm forced to go to stages not as powerful for GW, well this sucks.

Obviously this example was pretty inaccurate due to the characters not existing and GW being very good on those stage, but I think its clear that several scenarios like that could arise. How can you strike for stages for the whole set when you have no idea the selection of characters to be found.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If a player has the ability to efficiently and appropriately master 2 or more characters and win on your CP's, then it probably just means you aren't very good compared to them.

If Ice Climbers were really all that good on Battle Field and YI, I think we would be questioning the legality of them and not MK.

Also, **** that bull**** call on you pausing, Olimar was going to be hit by that U-smash anyway

 

[Akaku94]

G&W being good on a lot more stages than ICs is an inherent character strength. With a larger stagelist, you want a character that's good on more stages; it's common sense. With a small list, you want to find a character that can abuse what few stages there are (in the case of a 3-7 stage list, ICs or Olimar, for example).

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How do you decide the order of stages after that? Also how would this factor into to possibly switching characters?

For instance lets say I play IC's and second GW, based off the initial game the other player plays Rob, so naturally I'm gonna want as badly as possible to keep the stages pretty flat, and for the sake of example he strikes awfully and we get FD, BF, SV, YI, PS1. This is a perfect stage list for IC's (at least as far as I know, pretend it is), and as a result the other play gets wrecked the first game and realizes how dumb the stages are, so he swaps to some character that ***** IC's (I realize such a character doesn't exist but lets say that it does) well that's ok I got my handy, dandy back up GW (who we'll say ***** this mystery character), but oh wait........ I struck stages for IC's, not for GW.......... so now I'm forced to go to stages not as powerful for GW, well this sucks.

Obviously this example was pretty inaccurate due to the characters not existing and GW being very good on those stage, but I think its clear that several scenarios like that could arise. How can you strike for stages for the whole set when you have no idea the selection of characters to be found.

The order of the stages stays the same. After the first game, the loser CPs his stage and the winner chooses the character before the loser. The players are free to switch characters.

Secondaries should be taken into consideration when stage striking. There's almost no reason why you should ban stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise when you have a secondary character like G&W unless you aren't really comfortable on those stages.

 

[Judo777]

The order of the stages stays the same. After the first game, the loser CPs his stage and the winner chooses the character before the loser. The players are free to switch characters.

Secondaries should be taken into consideration when stage striking. There's almost no reason why you should ban stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise when you have a secondary character like G&W unless you aren't really comfortable on those stages.

Still a little confused. So you strike to 5 then is the order decided right then and there, or can they pick from that 5 in any order they choose?

Also I might want to not allow Brinstar if they play MK (tho irrelvant now you could sub MK for GW and pretend you play like DK).

I guess I just don't like the fact that I could be striking poorly because I am unaware of the secondaries they play and can't change my selection after we have struck initially.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Still a little confused. So you strike to 5 then is the order decided right then and there, or can they pick from that 5 in any order they choose?

Also I might want to not allow Brinstar if they play MK (tho irrelvant now you could sub MK for GW and pretend you play like DK).

I guess I just don't like the fact that I could be striking poorly because I am unaware of the secondaries they play and can't change my selection after we have struck initially.

You strike down to 5 stages. Those stages are going to be used for the rest of the set. The first stage can be agreed upon or they can strike down from the 5 stages.

If you don't know who your opponent second mains, there's always going to be that chance of you stage banning poorly or counter picking poorly. If your not sure about your opponent's secondaries, try striking your overall worse stages instead of your opponent's best stages.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Please don't say "Strike" if you mean "Ban," as the terms refer to different things. You ban a stage from a set, you strike down from the remaining ones.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You could also do five stages for best of three and seven for best of five go up to what ever number the TO/players prefer