Stage Discussion Thread - Now with all stages!

[rpotts]

I decided to create this thread after reading zen1's thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243847

This is meant to be an open forum discussion debating the strengths and shortcomings of various stages, as well discussing which stages favor/hinder certain characters and any other applicable ssb64 stage discussion.

Also, feel free to discuss how matchups vary from stage to stage, but try to keep posts that are simply discussing matchups in the New Match-up Chart http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241670

- - - Peach's Castle - - -

Fairness -

This map strongly favors characters with good recoveries such as pikachu and kirby.

Unique Features -

-Two wedges on either side of the map that frequently save characters from being KO'd
-Floating bumper above center platform that slowly moves left and right which can save characters from being star KO'd
-Bottom platform slides from the far left to far right and frequently inhibits characters from recovering as it slides away
-Only stage with no ledges

Strong Characters -

Pikachu, Kirby

Weak Characters -

Falcon, Link, Samus

Tournament Legality -

This map is legal for both singles and doubles

- - - Congo Jungle - - -​

​

Fairness -

This map aids characters with poor recoveries as the barrel cannon can be used if you are lucky and it is on the correct side of the stage.

Unique Features -

-Barrel Cannon under the stage
-Main platform allows players to pass through from under the stage, but players cannot fall through from the top.
-Two floating platforms in the middle of the stage that rotate clockwise
-Both ledges can be passed through which means there is no ledge DI (can someone confirm this?)

Strong Characters -

Kirby, Ness, Pikachu

Weak Characters -

Yoshi

Tournament Legality -

This stage is legal in both singles and doubles

- - - Hyrule Castle - - -​

Fairness -

This is a relatively fair stage as it aids all characters in comboing (although some more than others.) It can favor heavy characters because of its large size and distant blast zones and because the tornados kills lighter characters at noticeably lower percents.

Unique Features -

-Tornadoes that spawn at 4 different parts of the map. Any character that gets sucked into a tornado is spun around for a couple of seconds (allowing enemies to freely attack them) and then shot upwards and dealt 14% damage. Rarely, a tornado will spawn that moves noticeably faster than normal and homes in on characters.
-"**** Tent" located on right platform that can be used to deal devastating damage by repeatedly hitting/throwing enemies off of it and the middle platform wall.

Strong Characters -

This is debatable. I believe that all characters can use this stage to their advantage. Heavy characters can survive to great percents (especially with good DI.) Characters with good projectiles are also advantaged because, due to the stages size/layout, projectile camping is possible. Characters with good aerial combos are advantaged because of the large middle platform and **** tent.

Weak Characters -

See above

Tournament Legality -

This stage is legal for both singles and doubles

- - - Planet Zebes - - -​

Fairness -

This stage sucks. Lol, I will add more later.

Unique Features -

-Acid that rises up and down in a easily recognizable pattern. It first comes up above the main platform and the lowest floating platform. Then it lowers below main stage and once again rises above all but the highest platform leaving almost no room to fight. The acid deals considerable damage and can frequently cause a character to be star KO'd at high percents, especially when the acid is rising above the platforms.
-Floating elevator above the right ledge
-The main stage can be passed through from below, a necessary component because of the acid.

Strong Characters -

Kirby, his down-b stone is the only way to avoid being damaged by the acid (other than the starman item.) Characters with spikes can pull off acid combos and quickly get their opponents to very damage. Heavy characters can survive the acid longer, and characters with good recoveries can simply avoid the acid more easily.

Weak Characters -

Jigglypuff can almost always recover if she isn't spiked by using rising pounds, but the acid kills her at stupid low percents, as low as 40 or so when the acid rises above the platforms.

Tournament Legality -

This stage is banned in most tournaments in both singles and doubles.

- - - Mushroom Kingdom - - -​

Fairness -

Thoughts???

Unique Features -

-Walk-off sides, meaning players can KO themselves by reaching be side blast zones simply by walking past them.
-2 Pipes that players can travel through by standing on one of them and pushing down, there is a third one but it is simply an exit. The player will reappear out of one the other pipes, randomly. Piranha Plants will appear out of two of the pipes if no character is standing on them.
-POW Blocks that spawn at 4 locations around the stage. If a player attacks a POW Block all characters touching the ground will be dealt 20% damage and will suffer serious vertical knockback, frequently causing star KOs. POW Blocks cannot be attacked with projectiles.
-Two middle platforms that will fall if a character stands on one for too long (unless another character is on the other platform, thus balancing the weight.)

Strong Characters -

Discuss. Characters who rely on spikes to KO opponents are disadvantaged since the only low blast zone is usually covered by the two middle platforms.

Weak Characters -

Discuss.

Tournament Legality -

This stage is banned in both singles and doubles.

- - - Yoshi's Island - - -​

Fairness -

This map contains three floating clouds, one on the left, two on the right, that disappear after a few seconds of standing on them. They tend to promote camping and can cause lame deaths by standing on a cloud that a recovering opponent is trying to reach, causing it to disappear and your opponent to plummet to his death. Also not all characters can recover from the far right cloud, further causing camping and gimp killing.

Unique Features -

-3 disappearing clouds
-Is that the only unique feature or am I missing something?

Strong Characters -

Discuss

Weak Characters -

Link, Falcon and Samus can't recover from the far right cloud to the stage

Tournament Legality -

This stage is banned in both singles and doubles

- - - Dreamland - - -​

Fairness -

This stage is considered very fair by most players; the layout is simple and symmetrical. All characters can kill pretty easily because of the close blast zones on all sides.

Unique Features -

-Whispy Woods periodically blows to one side or the other, causing characters to slide towards the edge and a moderate pace. This can sometimes cause characters to slide off the edge and mistakenly attack (sometimes mashing R to grab and end up nairing.)
-It's the only map that is completely symmetrical 100% of the time. Congo Jungle and Peach's Castle are close but the have moving objects that break the symmetry.

Strong Characters -

This map can aid just about every character, discuss.

Weak Characters -

Discuss.

Tournament Legality -

This stage is legal in both singles and doubles.

- - - Sector Z - - -​

Credit for Z goes mostly to KoRoBeNiKi, i took his post and made some slight changes.

Fairness -

Due to how large the stage is, this stage is not tournament friendly. Characters can't kill well, the Arwing lasers deal 30 damage per hit and deal very high knockback, frequently hitting multiple times and KO'ing players. The length of the map in addition to the huge wing promote camping. The wing can also be used to enable crazy grab combos with most characters, notably DK and Ness.

Unique Features -

-Arwings that fly down the ship as well as across the map, from the background to the foreground or vice versa, shooting lasers.
-Largest stage in ssb64 with the highest ceiling
-2 separate relatively flat portions separated by a curved wall

Strong Characters -

Fox: due to laser camping and you can reflect the lasers
Falcon: long stretches for combos
Luigi: Easier to up b with the open space.
Jigglypuff: Rest is one of the only reliable killers on this stage. The size of the stage prevents early gimps
Ness: you can absorb the lasers with the Psychic Magnet
Link: Projectile camping and the size of the stage prevents recovery gimps

Weak Characters -
DK: Can't kill at all, no back throw gimps (I don't agree with this, any thoughts?)
Samus: More difficultly killing and too much space to deal with camping

Tournament Legality -

This stage is banned in both singles and doubles

- - - Saffron City - - -​

Fairness -

This map favors characters with spikes because of the many gaps between buildings that restrict recovering characters to a tiny horizontal area, making them sitting ducks to spikes.

Unique Features -

-Box at the right side of middle platform that houses Charmander, Porygon, Chansey, Electrode and Venusaur. The door will open at the beginning of the round and periodically throughout. If a player goes up to the box, or the door stays open for a certain period of time a Pokemon will randomly spawn.
-Two rising platforms on left side of the stage
-Two gaps in between buildings.

Strong Characters -

Discuss

Weak Characters -

Ness, because he can't recover with his PK Thunder 2 in between the buildings, the gap is too tight to loop the Thunder

Tournament Legality -

This stage is legal for both singles and doubles. Some tournaments allow Ness players to request another stage.

 

[Skrlx]

I like me some HYRULE CASTLE for rapetent comboz


- Near

 

[Daedatheus]

Mario also ***** on Peach's castle

 

[geezer]

What about Sector Z?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Samus is weak on Zebes? The fire helps samus's recovery and the lava leads to down air combos. Its weak for yoshi, link and ness. Link due to how heavy he is (lava combos), yoshi and ness because the lava prevents recoveries due to missed DJC's.

For geezer: he is not finished....but making a guide similar to his:

- - - Congo Jungle - - -


Fairness -

Due to how large the stage is, this stage is not tournament friendly. Characters can't kill well, the lasers are overpowered, and camping is promoted.

Unique Features -

-Star fox lasers
-Largest stage in ssb64 with the highest ceiling
-2 separate flat portions separated by a curved wall

Strong Characters -

Fox: due to laser camping and you can reflect the lasers
Falcon: long stretches for combos
Luigi: Easier to up b with the open space.
Jigglypuff: Rest is one of the only reliable killers on this stage. The size of the stage prevents early gimps
Kirby: Up tilt combo and the size of the stage.
Ness: you can absorb the lasers
Link: Projectile camping and the size of the stage prevents recovery gimps

Weak Characters -
DK: Can't kill at all, no back throw gimps
Samus: More difficultly killing and too much space to deal with camping

Tournament Legality -

This stage is illegal in both singles and doubles

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Wait what? Kongo Jungle is completely legal. Reading your description, it looks like you meant to say Sector Z.

As for Planet Zebes, it is legal in some tournaments. It is the Tournament Organizer's decision, but I believe most have it as a counterpick. The lava actually helps you more than kills you, as what would have been a spike to your death results in the lava saving you... unless your damage is high enough that you would die off the top, but really, you would have been dead anyways. Also, characters with bad recoveries live longer since they can use the lava to come back to the stage.

People hate this stage because the lava kills you... when it really ends up helping you more than anything.

 

[asianaussie]

I think Zebes is really, really hated a lot. Too much, probably. I'm not a fan, but I don't detest it either.

Acid combos are really fun (not if you're in them).I want to dispute the idea that Samus and Link have trouble on Zebes. Samus's moves are great on Zebes. Her playstyle is generally about damage stacking. The lava provides a force similar to Fox or Mario's U-Smash, and can be used for a nifty KO tool. Times where she'd otherwise plummet become recoveries with the acid and an Up-B. Use of the bomb is extremely fun with some prediction and the aid of acid. U-Smash and Up-B become ridiculous tool - D-Air > U-Smash adds 20-50%, which is difference between life and death with the threat of acid. Up-B is less powerful, but more consistent.

Link also gets some help from Zebes' acid - it can save you from an untimely low percentage gimp. Good use of Boomerang and (especially) Bombs subject off-edge foes to further damage from lava (as long as they aren't called Pikachu, Mario or Luigi). If you use D-Air immediately after dropping through the top platform while the lava rises, you can hit foes coming up, then land back on the top platform due to the bounce. This actually works quite well.

Not many characters lose out from Zebes, as Blue Yoshi said. I'd say Jiggs suffers the worst - acid kills early.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

i think samus stage is the best stage

 

[asianaussie]

Hey, a guy who likes Zebes :D

Good on you.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I love Zebes. My favourite character/legal stage combination is Kirby and Zebes.

 

[asianaussie]

Fun combination. D-Air and F-Smash are even more ridiculous on Zebes.

Mine is Mario and Saffron. Don't know why. I don't really play Mario much anyway :3

Or maybe DK and Dreamland.

 

[lordvaati]

so Zebes was a debatable counterpick? news to me. Also Luigi would be a strong character on MK, possibly, because if he SJPs a POW Block the opponent is almost always screwed. Ness, DK and Link might have a dis advantage because they would have the hardest time recovering if meteored/spiked in the middle of the stage.

 

[Zen Yore]

only a *** can like zebes

saffron city is too good
+ Ness on Dreamland = Win

 

[Skrlx]

Yoshi's Island is a campfest.


Also, if FD was availabe i'd play on that more than hyrule

 

[geezer]

I rather like Samus on Saffron.

 

[NixxxoN]

Yoshi's Island is a campfest.


Also, if FD was availabe i'd play on that more than hyrule

FD on 64 is too small but should be cool to play on it.

Sector Z sucks because of the shooting spacecrafts and the huge size.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I think FD in this game is too small

 

[rpotts]

so Zebes was a debatable counterpick? news to me. Also Luigi would be a strong character on MK, possibly, because if he SJPs a POW Block the opponent is almost always screwed. Ness, DK and Link might have a dis advantage because they would have the hardest time recovering if meteored/spiked in the middle of the stage.

Actually it doesn't matter what attack you use against the POW Block, it deals 20 damage no matter what. I agree about DK and Link being disadvantaged but not so much Ness because the middle area is wide enough to pull off a PK thunder 2. Plus the lower left side of the map has the fixed ceiling above it thats too good for utilt and uair/dair combos. There is no escape if the Ness can techchase.

 

[Deleted member]

lol at kirby having a good recovery

 

[rpotts]

lol at kirby having a good recovery

Although it's slow, predictable and interceptable he still has the highest recovery and one of the longest recoveries in the game. I'm assuming you were talking about me putting him in strong characters for Peach's castle, and I stand by that. He can usually recover to either the middle platform, the top or the moving platform on the bottom (sometimes he can even go under the map and recover on the other side.) I still think pik is stonger but Kirby's recover plus stupid good gimping makes him a good pick against many characters on Peach's castle.

Discuss

 

[Deleted member]

Whatever I think Kirby's recovery sucks on every stage


where's dreamland, the stage of gimping?

 

[Daedatheus]

lol at kirby having a good recovery

We have to rate by comparison. While his recovery is only deceptively "good" to n00bs who think more jumps=better recovery, he recovers more consistently than a lot of the cast. There's no doubt though, if he's recovering from a low position, he's ****ed.

Still, IMO his recovery is comparable to Jiggs's (but that depends on the situation), although it is worse than Samus's, Yoshi's, Mario's, Luigi's and Pika's.

 

[TANK64]

Yea- Sector Z without the massacring arwings would be super legit.

oh, and Zebes is the best!

 

[Deleted member]

We have to rate by comparison. While his recovery is only deceptively "good" to n00bs who think more jumps=better recovery, he recovers more consistently than a lot of the cast. There's no doubt though, if he's recovering from a low position, he's ****ed.

Still, IMO his recovery is comparable to Jiggs's (but that depends on the situation), although it is worse than Samus's, Yoshi's, Mario's, Luigi's and Pika's.

I don't think so, Jigg's recovering high often she can make it back but Kirby is different

 

[rpotts]

I don't think so, Jigg's recovering high often she can make it back but Kirby is different

Each of kirby's five jumps give vertical recovery, if Kirby is knocked up and away (as most attacks do) he can simply rise above edgeguarding opponents. His recovery isn't the best but it certainly covers a long distance.

 

[Deleted member]

Each of kirby's five jumps give vertical recovery, if Kirby is knocked up and away (as most attacks do) he can simply rise above edgeguarding opponents. His recovery isn't the best but it certainly covers a long distance.

its not that simple because kirby eventually has to come down


Jiggly can stay afloat for a really long time


Kirby's horizontal movement is pretty bad and if he is really far he is forced to probably Up-B. Anytime Kirby up-b's to recover he is extremely vulnerable

 

[asianaussie]

Kirby's recovery is still alright...it's just that Up-B is a really easy to intercept move.

Kirby's Neut-B > his Up-B :D

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Kirby's Neut-B > his Up-B :D

What if you're against a Pikachu, other Kirby, Ness, or Luigi (or other character with amazing vertical recovery when not edgeguarded)? Remember Kirby dies first, and therefore, the opponent always has a chance to recover. Sure, bad vertical recoveries like DK, Link, Samus, Falcon, Yoshi, and Puff will not be able to recover that high, but those mensioned above should survive if they time the jump properly. As for Mario and Fox, maybe. Also depends on the stage as well... as on Hyrule, not many will survive that... if any.

 

[asianaussie]

I was just joking :3

But in seriousness, if you were high enough to get an on-edge enemy with Neut B, chances are you can just N-Air to repel and then grab the edge. If they're off the edge and have a huge recovery, Neut B isn't something you can lose out from.

It is funny to use that and Yoshi's Neut B in recovery. It's even more fun when it works. His Neut B isn't used enough anyway - it's a setup for U-Smash against unsuspecting players, plus spitting enemies into tornadoes or charmanders is fun.

 

[House]

Images for topic should be taken from here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/Map.html

and here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/Yakumono.html

 

[Deleted member]

Dreamland definitely doesn't help everybody

favors most Top Tiers and Gimpers like DK

bad recovery people like Link get owned harder

the flow of Dreamland is mainly stupidly easy combos with Falcon or gimp heavy gameplay because stage is very small

I consider Hyrule to be more fair for all characters (most cases especially Link vs almost all the cast), but Dreamland's gameplay is very interesting too

 

[NixxxoN]

If you think Kirby has a bad recovery.... then you have a bad recovery skill probably!

Rise above edgeguarder..... protect yourself doing drills towards the opponent... His recovery is up there with the best (Pika, Mario, Luigi, Kirby) although it is prob the 4th best

 

[Daedatheus]

Rise above edgeguarder..... protect yourself doing drills towards the opponent...

If you're far enough away I just have to get on top of you.

If you're closer, I space properly to bait out a fair, then doublejump and bair you to death.

His recovery just isn't fast enough nor full of priority. He has no quick and "safe" ways to grab the edge as well. In many situations Samus is still better at recovering, but you're right, his is up there. It's just a cut below the best ones.

 

[NixxxoN]

I thought kirby's best way to recover is to do some mindgamez and do a surprise attack to the opponent with a drill

 

[Daedatheus]

I thought kirby's best way to recover is to do some mindgamez and do a surprise attack to the opponent with a drill

Once Kirby is on the stage his dair outprioritizes just about everything and that IS viable, but if he's offstage the opponent should be proactive in edgeguarding Kirby from the side or the top.

 

[Skrlx]

Battlefield would make a GREAT stage but the ledges suck for DI'ing into them to avoid death... in Battlefield if you DI into the ledges you go straight down

 

[MattNF]

it's probably possible to make your own stages with enough hacking

I recall some mario kart 64 players made their own stage a while back

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

For dreamland, as said, this stage greatly helps gimper

Strong Characters -

Falcon, Pikachu, Kirby, DK, Mario (?)

Weak Characters -

Link, Samus, Jigglypuff(?), Fox (?)

 

[Kefit]

Mushroom Kingdom favors characters with good dashgrabs. There is really no reason to play the stage by doing anything other than camping the right side and killing with a throw at zero percent.

Hyrule is definitely the most balanced stage in the game. I think that Zebes might actually be close, but no one plays it enough to confirm this thought.

Fox is definitely disadvantaged on Dreamland. He's too easily gimped, and his lasers aren't as effective in preventing gimping as they are on Hyrule.

Saffron is weird. It's also a camper's paradise. I've had standard five stock matches on the stage last for over ten minutes, and this just with regular space camping. Games with projectile camping and Jiggy/Kirby dair camping have gone on for close to 15 minutes.

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Korobeniki, I don't think Jiggly is that bad on Dreamland. She's pretty average there cause a lot of her game is also gimping and her recovery from above lets her survive most gimp attempts.

~ImNotPro