Official Stage Discussion for Ike

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GhostUrsa
#1
Good afternoon everyone. I've been answering questions on other forum threads about good stages for specific characters to fight on when I discovered that we don't have an official Stage Discussion thread specifically for Ike. Now, I know there is a competitive specific thread similar to this on the Competitive Discussions forum, but it's pretty general and doesn't give players a good idea as to what stages are most beneficial to Ike. So, let me be the first to start the discussion.

Some ground rules for the discussion. First, no stage is currently off the table from discussion. I know there are plenty of veterans that hate some stages, or have seen some tournaments that have banned specific stages (like 75M). This is not a thread for picking Bans. Also there maybe some smaller tournaments that players will go to that don't have such restrictions, or gentlemen agreements have 2 players fighting on a stage that aren't your normal Starter/Counterpicks.

Try to keep your posts to what is good and/or not good about a stage for Ike. This will allow better criticism/debate on the stage than "This place sucks!" does. It will as help newer players who are going to tournaments figure out a good pick/counter pick.

Here are the current cliff notes I have on the stages currently discussed. They are a living documentation, so feel free to contest something that doesn't seem right.They have an overall rating out of 5 stars, a list of pros and cons as well as characters to fight/avoid there:
Pros
-Limited recovery options lets Eruption shine
-Less platforms, less destractions
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Large top blastzone makes U-smash and U-tilt kills harder, gives aerial focused opponents more breathing room.
-Sharking can get countered
-Lots of room for your opponent to manuver
-Characters with a good projectile game will make you work for your approach
-Limited recovery options makes staying unpredictable harder

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4link::4lucario::4samus::4tlink::4sonic::4megaman::4greninja::4robinm::4littlemac:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4diddy::4falco::4zss::4ryu::4lucas::4rob::4luigi::4mario::4villager::4shulk::4duckhunt::4gaw:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4myfriends::4charizard::4falcon::4ganondorf::4pikachu::4lucina::4marth::4metaknight::4yoshi::4feroy::4peach::4ness::4zelda::4dk::4olimar::4alph::rosalina::4pit::4darkpit::4bowser::4bowserjr::4sheik:
Pros
-Platform placement allows better High recovery edge guarding options
-Platform size allows for better frame traps, max size is just in our attack range for tilts
-Platforms allow us better mixups for our recoveries.
-Good size blastzones at all angles
-Lots of walk off attach options available, both on and off stage
-Dodging projectile users is a breeze
-Sharking is possible
Cons
-Characters with good aerial combos or far reaching up attacks can frame trap us too.
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform size gives benefit to characters with good dash options
-Characters with low landing lag get to use the platforms to extend their combos.
-We can't pressure opponents below us well when on a platform

Characters to avoid here: :4yoshi::4pikachu::rosalina:
Characters that are a gamble here: :4falco::4megaman::4falcon::4charizard::4rob::4lucas::4ness::4duckhunt::4mewtwo::4jigglypuff::4peach::4myfriends::4ryu::4dedede::4diddy::4sheik:
Characters to fight here: :4link::4tlink::4lucario::4greninja::4luigi::4mario::4kirby::4metaknight::4sonic::4samus::4villager::4littlemac::4gaw::4drmario::4dk::4ganondorf::4wiifit:
Pros
-Platform placement allows better High recovery edge guarding options
-Platform size allows for better frame traps, max size is just in our attack range for tilts
-Platforms allow us better mixups for our recoveries.
-Good size blastzones at all angles
-Lots of walk off attach options available, both on and off stage
-Dodging projectile users is a breeze
-Sharking is possible
-Whispy Wood's wind can hinder aerial dependant opponents that dance around on stage/mid-range off-stage
Cons
-Characters with good aerial combos or far reaching up attacks can frame trap us too.
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform size gives benefit to characters with good dash options
-Characters with low landing lag get to use the platforms to extend their combos.
-We can't pressure opponents below us well when on a platform
-Wind from Whispy Wood can throw off our mid-range recovery options.

Characters to avoid here: :4yoshi::4pikachu::rosalina:
Characters that are a gamble here: :4falco::4rob::4lucas::4ness::4duckhunt::4mewtwo::4jigglypuff::4peach::4myfriends::4ryu::4diddy::4sheik:
Characters to fight here: :4link::4tlink::4megaman::4lucario::4falcon::4greninja::4luigi::4mario::4kirby::4metaknight::4sonic::4samus::4villager::4littlemac::4gaw::4drmario::4dk::4dedede::4ganondorf::4charizard::4wiifit:
Pros
-Techable blast shield platforms next to bumper help with survivability, or setups for KO confirms
-Sharking is possible
-Uneven bridge allows us to dodge small, linear hitboxes easier
-Lower platform forces aggressiveness due to it's constant sliding state
Cons
-Techable blast shield platforms next to bumper help with opponent's survivability
-Sharking can get countered
-Lower platform requires accurate aim to get snap
-Characters can jump through sliding lower platform to pressure our shields with aerials
-Uneven bridge makes some of our tilts and possibly our grab harder to land

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4kirby::4jigglypuff::4metaknight::4pikachu:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4rob::4peach::4darkpit::4pit::4ness::4lucas::4mewtwo::4ryu::4bowserjr::4dedede::4villager:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4bowser::4fox::4falco::4gaw::4falcon::4charizard::4diddy::4dk::4drmario::4duckhunt::4mario::4marth::4luigi::4lucina::4lucario::4link::4littlemac::4myfriends::4ganondorf::4megaman::4mii::4olimar::4palutena::4pacman::4robinm::rosalina::4feroy::4samus::4sheik::4shulk::4sonic::4tlink::4wiifit::4wario::4yoshi::4zelda::4zss:
Pros
-High Ceilings make it hard to get combo KO'd early
-Tree gives us some extra landing platforms to recovery to against short jumpers
-Walled base platform makes it easier to line up for a spike or prevent sharking against Eruption
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Large top blastzone makes U-smash and U-tilt kills harder, gives light weights more breathing room
-Tree gives opponents with a good jump an easier way to chase us for a KO
-Wall clinging is possible to stall for time against Eruption, walls make Aether easier to spike
-The ducks can interrupt combos by delaying animations of attacks when hit
-Lots of room for your opponent to manuver
-Characters with a good projectile game will make you work for your approach
-Limited recovery options makes staying unpredictable harder

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4pikachu::4sheik::4rob::4peach::4ness:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4zss: :4tlink::4link::4miibrawl::4cloud::4diddy::4darkpit::4falcon::4duckhunt::4ryu::4feroy::4pit::4megaman::4mario:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4metaknight::4sonic::rosalina::4ganondorf::4myfriends::4littlemac::4zelda::4miigun::4miisword::4alph::4charizard::4bowserjr::4bowser::4shulk::4gaw::4palutena::4mewtwo::4marth::4luigi::4lucina::4lucas::4kirby::4jigglypuff::4greninja::4lucario::4drmario::4dk::4fox::4falco:

Wii U specific stage evaluations:
Pros
-Main platform is near the upper blastzone for easy KOs
-Lower platforms all have snapping ledges, giving advantage to those with good grasp of spacing
-Lower platforms have a smaller size, so attacking from max range is easier
-Two solid platforms at the bottom of the stage grant solid ground for Ike to play with
Cons
-Main platform is near upper blastzone and can be comboed to the side blastzone, so we can be KO'd easier
-Level is too large for Ike to lock in KOs with his Knockback
-All lower platforms can be jumped through, making Aether snap hard and aerial opponents gain more options
-Characters with good dash and close range options will beat out all but our jabs on the platforms
-Layout favors those who can gimp for their KOs at the bottom, which Ike isn't equiped to do

Notable Characters to avoid here::4kirby::4jigglypuff::4charizard::4rob::4falco::4palutena::rosalina::4metaknight::4pikachu::4peach::4ness:
Notable Characters that will be a gamble::4pit::4darkpit::4ryu::4samus::4sheik::4shulk::4lucas::4yoshi::4diddy::4dedede::4fox::4villager::4zss:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4lucario::4myfriends::4ganondorf::4robinm::4sonic::4tlink::4link::4mewtwo::4bowser::4dk::4luigi::4mario::4megaman::4zelda::4bowserjr:
Pros
-Platform height allows easier u-smash traps
-Tilting terrain throws off projectiles, juggles, Auto-cancel timing, edge game, etc.
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Nice ledges for snapping

Cons
-Terrain leaning throws off our tilts, juggle setups and Auto-cancels
-Sharking can get countered
-Platforms are a good height for aerial combo lovers
-Tilting of the ship could steal away our Aether recovery

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4peach::4ness::4pit::4darkpit::4jigglypuff::4metaknight::4diddy::4pikachu:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4sheik::rosalina::4falcon::4zss::4charizard::4kirby::4dedede::4lucas::4rob::4yoshi::4falco::4ryu::4miibrawl::4gaw::4dk::4drmario::4mario::4luigi:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4megaman::4link::4tlink::4lucario::4samus::4greninja::4marth::4lucina::4feroy::4bowser::4bowserjr::4ganondorf::4fox::4robinf::4zelda::4wario::4villager::4sonic::4wiifit::4miisword::4miigun::4olimar::4palutena::4pacman::4littlemac::4myfriends:
Pros
-Variation on the transition's destinations allow potential mixups to happen easier
-Most of the destinations have smaller side blastzones for easier edge guarding
-Rooftop destination has low ceiling blastzone for easy d-throw and up attack KOs
-Waterspiking is Boss!
-Projectile users will have a hard time hitting their target with all the varied terrain, especially with Ike's low crouch
-Sharking is possible on the transition platform
-Platform locations for the transitional arenas have some randomness that makes it hard to be frame trapped
Cons
-Base platform can be jumped through from underneath, throwing off our Aether snap and giving aerial fighters more pressure options
-Platform locations for the transitional arenas have some randomness that makes it hard to frame trap
-Our mobility in water leaves much to be desired
-Some locations have walk outs to the blastzone, giving combo users easier kill potential on us
-Waterspiking is near impossible to survive!

Characters to avoid here: :4pikachu::4kirby::4metaknight::4darkpit::4pit::4charizard::4jigglypuff::4luigi:
Characters that are a gamble here: :4falcon::4ganondorf::4ryu::4palutena::4peach::4rob::4diddy::4falco::4dedede::4olimar::4villager::4ness::4lucas::4mario:
Characters to fight here: :4link::4tlink::4lucina::4marth::4sheik::4feroy::4bowser::4bowserjr::4robinm::4mewtwo::4fox::4greninja::4myfriends::4littlemac::4sonic::4samus::4yoshi::4wiifit::4lucario::4gaw:
Pros
-Wide side blastzones give Ike more survivability
-Town locations have higher platforms to increase our edgeguarding reach
-High platform is close to the upper blastzone for some early KO potential
-City transformation has lower platforms for easier slow projectile dodging and frame trapping
-City Transformation has platforms that allow more off stage recovery room, and easy KOs with grabs
-Sharking is possible
Cons
-Main platform is a little large, favoring speedsters and zoners
-Sharking can get countered
-Town locations have higher platforms that make it difficult to frame trap with our U-smash/u-tilt
-High platform close to the upper blastzone grants characters with good vertical knockback easy KOs on us
-City transformations grant good jugglers platforms to jump off of
-City transformation has ledges close to side blastzone for easier KOs against us for brawlers

Characters to avoid here: :4sheik::4sonic::4diddy::4luigi:
Characters that are a gamble here: :4mewtwo::4pikachu::4yoshi::4zss::4lucario::4peach::4duckhunt::4miigun::4greninja::4falcon::4fox::4ness::4megaman::4rob::4gaw::4pit::4darkpit::4dedede::4feroy::4ryu::4mario:
Characters to fight here: :4bowser::4bowserjr::4ganondorf::4falco::4myfriends::4kirby::4jigglypuff::4link::4wiifit::4wario::4villager::4tlink::4shulk::4samus::rosalina::4zelda::4dk::4drmario::4charizard::4miibrawl::4miisword::4lucas::4lucina::4marth::4robinm::4olimar::4palutena::4pacman:
Pros
-Platform size is just right for Ike's spacing game
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Blastzones are too large to KO opponents reliably
-Sharking can get countered
-Too much room for your opponent to manuever
-Stalling with fast characters is possible
-Extra platforms make frame trapping harder, make edge-guarding options less reliable

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4sonic::4pikachu::4sheik::4falcon::4metaknight::4zss:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4diddy::4palutena::4shulk::4jigglypuff::4fox::4yoshi::4peach::4kirby::4dedede::4charizard::4rob::4darkpit::4pit::4lucas::4ness:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4bowser::4falco::4bowserjr::4ryu::4feroy::rosalina::4samus::4wario::4wiifit::4zelda::4megaman::4dk::4drmario::4duckhunt::4marth::4mario::4luigi::4lucina::4lucario::4link::4littlemac::4myfriends::4greninja::4gaw::4ganondorf::4mewtwo::4mii::4tlink::4robinm::4villager:
Pros
-Slightly smaller Blastzones allow for earlier KOs
-Sharking is possible
-Platform height allows walk-off options for Ike
-Can escape projectile camping with platform, can frame trap opponents with aerials
-Platform grants us more options for off-stage recovery
Cons
-Base platform distance allows projectiles to cover all of Ike's ground options
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform length makes U-smash traps harder to land, characters with fast projectiles can cover the platform
-Characters can jump through platform to pressure our shields with aerials, grants combo lovers extensions and more recovery options
-Aether's ending lag makes recovering on platform punishable

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4sheik::rosalina::4sonic::4falcon::4luigi::4rob::4metaknight::4ness:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4megaman::4kirby::4jigglypuff::4dedede::4darkpit::4pit::4mewtwo::4charizard::4falco::4lucas::4miibrawl::4pikachu::4ryu::4wiifit::4yoshi:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4bowser::4diddy::4bowserjr::4dk::4drmario::4duckhunt::4fox::4ganondorf::4gaw::4greninja::4myfriends::4littlemac::4link::4lucario::4lucina::4mario::4marth::4miigun::4miisword::4olimar::4palutena::4pacman::4peach::4robinm::4feroy::4samus::4shulk::4tlink::4wario::4zelda::4zss::4villager:
Pros
-Very low Blastzone for KO options
-Sharking is possible
-Platform placement allows us to avoid projectiles easily
-Can apply pressure to those on the platform with F-air or u-smash
Cons
-Very Low blastzone lets those with great Upward attack and throw options better KO options than us
-Sharking can get countered
-Lower platform during transformation can be jump through letting those with multiple jumps pressure us with no punishment
-Stage hazards on the deck of the Halberd can potentially hinder our momentum
-Transformation base requires more accuracy from us to get the snap.
-Halberd's deck gives speedsters a lot of room to manuever
-Walk-offs at the start, plus the speed at which the base rises could potentially cause problems for the unlucky
-Platform is large enough where it is harder to frame trap

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4rob::4metaknight::rosalina::4diddy::4charizard::4sonic::4peach::4zss:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4megaman::4sheik::4pit::4darkpit::4yoshi::4luigi::4kirby::4jigglypuff::4ness::4lucas::4ryu::4miibrawl::4littlemac::4pikachu::4yoshi::4shulk::4falco:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4bowser::4dedede::4dk::4fox::4greninja::4myfriends::4link::4lucario::4mario::4marth::4olimar::4samus::4tlink::4wiifit::4villager::4palutena::4zelda::4pacman::4falcon::4lucina::4miisword::4wario::4larry::4feroy::4robinm::4gaw::4ganondorf::4drmario::4duckhunt::4miigun:
Pros
-Platform size is just right for Ike's spacing game on the Battlements
-Sharking is possible on the Battlements and the Underground Cavern
-Battlements allow for Ike to have some creative platform play
-Uneven terrain in the Battlements and Underground Cavern can throw off combos/projectiles
-Main platform tipping in the Underground Cavern can throw off projectiles
-Throne Room statues intercept projectiles!
Cons
-Throne Room is a nightmare for Ike against good combo characters!
-Sharking can get countered
-Battlements lower ledge doesn't grant much for spike-proofing for Ike
-Uneven platform placement in the Throne Room and Battlements makes traditional pressure options difficult
-Size of the Throne Room allows faster opponents plenty of stalling.

Notable Characters to avoid here: :4sonic::4pikachu::4sheik::4falcon::4zss::4diddy::4lucas::4ness::4mario::4luigi:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here: :4peach::4pit::4darkpit::4metaknight::4kirby::4jigglypuff::rosalina::4villager::4villagerf::4littlemac::4fox:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4link::4robinm::4robinf::4rob::4myfriends::4lucina::4marth::4bowser::4mewtwo::4tlink::4wiifit::4wiifitm::4zelda::4samus:

3DS specific stage evaluations:
Pros
-Main platform is near the upper blastzone for easy KOs
-Lower platforms all have snapping ledges, giving advantage to those with good grasp of spacing
-Lower platforms have a smaller size, so attacking from max range is easier
Cons
-Main platform is near upper blastzone and can be comboed to the side blastzone, so we can be KO'd easier
-All lower platforms can be jumped through, making Aether snap hard and aerial opponents gain more options
-Characters with good dash and close range options will beat out all but our jabs on the platforms
-Layout favors those who can gimp for their KOs at the bottom, which Ike isn't equiped to do

Notable Characters to avoid here::4kirby::4jigglypuff::4charizard::4rob::4falco::4palutena::rosalina::4metaknight::4pikachu::4peach::4ness:
Notable Characters that will be a gamble::4pit::4darkpit::4ryu::4samus::4sheik::4shulk::4lucas::4yoshi::4diddy::4dedede::4fox::4villager::4zss:
Notable Characters to fight here: :4lucario::4myfriends::4ganondorf::4robinm::4sonic::4tlink::4link::4mewtwo::4bowser::4dk::4luigi::4mario::4megaman::4zelda::4bowserjr:
Pros
-Good layout for avoiding projectiles
-Easy frametrapping on side platforms
-High platform good distance for spaced attacks
-breaking side platform 'ligaments' allows off-stage mind games
-low ceiling blastzone allows for easy KOs
-lava can save us from falling KOs
Cons
-Eggs sacks in the middle of the main platform make Ike's attacks dangerous due to his superior range
-low ceiling blastzone allows characters with good up throws to KO us easier
-Lava can throw off our momentum when chasing a target
-Aether could cut tendons on the side platfroms while we are trying to land on them, as they have no snap.

Characters to avoid here: :4mewtwo::4ness::4luigi::4zss::4ryu:
Characters that are a gamble here: :4yoshi::4jigglypuff::4lucas::4mario::4sheik::4diddy::4metaknight::rosalina::4ganondorf::4falco::4rob::4miibrawl::4drmario::4charizard::4peach::4palutena:
Characters to fight here: :4myfriends::4link::4tlink::4megaman::4lucario::4dedede::4dk::4bowser::4sonic::4samus::4robinm::4zelda::4feroy::4lucina::4marth: :4fox::4bowserjr::4falcon::4darkpit::4pit::4pikachu::4wario::4wiifit::4shulk::4miigun::4miisword::4kirby::4littlemac::4duckhunt::4gaw::4pacman::4olimar:

What do you feel is a good stage for Ike?
 
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GhostUrsa
#2
I'll start by saying that Final Destination is an uphill battle for Ike. Though he's got free rain straight at an opponent with his QD, the long distance means he's open to projectiles. There isn't much to get in the way of Ike's mobility, but it also stresses his limited jump height when chasing after aerial targets. One good thing about the level is that Final Destination (and pretty much all Omega stages, for that matter) allow his Aether to go through the floor, allowing low recoveries to help keep his opponent away from the edge while he makes it to safety. The edges are also on the thinner side, making edge guarding with Eruption less risky in my experience.
 
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GhostUrsa
#3
Since Final Destination is kind of a stale environment, lets move on to Battlefield. This stage I feel give Ike plenty of love, especially if he is trying to hit targets that are above him. His exceptional reach with his U-smash, F-Smash, Aether and U-tilt grant some great surprise attacks when opponents go to use the platforms. Ike struggles when trying to hit opponents directly below him, as dropping directly down from the side platforms to the ground when attacking an opponent doesn't grant a lot of space to use anything but n-air. (And that still rarely gets a full swing.) It does grant some nice walk off attack options to go against projectile spammers, and dropping from the top platform allows an excellent stage spike opportunity.

Edge guarding becomes a bit of a mixed bag for Ike. Though Eruption has some depth for its use, it's not enough if used from a platform if the opponent recovers under him. It can make it slightly harder for an opponent to get behind him when using Eruption from the ground though, as most players will hit the platform before falling down in the hope to use its spacing to get around Eruption's range.

It does allow better offensive options against high and medium (or is it called middle?) approaches. The platforms naturally allow Ike to get more height when preventing high recoveries, and the platform allows 2 levels of walk-off edge guard tactics to help spice things up. ( I find spiking from a walk-off from the platform easier to hit with than from the ground. From the ground, I've heard B-air into the stage will work similar. Looking at the layout of Battlefield from the Smash Academy thread, that may only be possible when your opponent recovers from the right.)
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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Sansoldier
#4
With extra lag from QDing to platforms, I don't really practice many stages anymore. Pressuring platforms is also more difficult when the opponent doesn't edge slip anymore from a shielded attack.

2D stages such as Duck Hunt and the G&W Omega Stage helps prevent attacks that miss into the Z-axis. This may occur when both players are incredibly close to each other when attacking.

Low ceiling stages are double edged. Ike can uthrow->uair quite a few characters and rage dthrow can kill at a decent range, but he's vulnerable to getting KO'd off the top himself. I think that I prefer medium-sized stages vs. overly large or small ones.

I agree with your assessments on BF and FD. FD is a little better for us this time around with better air speed and being able to aether through the stage. I think we're alright on FD and probably have a bit of a better time than other heavyweights there, but there are many other characters that are good there.
 

Yoh

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#5
Well what you guys write confirms what I felt like until know, I still like BF more than FD, but it´s just a personal favor, I also think Ike is better on FD in this game.

I still like to play on Delfino in Smash 4, Ike is still good in the water, it´s just kinda difficult to get the spike hit this time around. He can ko pretty fast to the side in some transformations nair -> fair/bair. QD under the stage when it lands can be nice to suprise with an up smash or so, many people seem to underestimate the range.
He has some room for his spacing game since those platforms are not in the center of the stage and they can also give you a recovery option.
Halberd seems good, but I´m just to scared to pick it since other characters can easily ko you off the top if you miss uthrow uair.
 
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san.

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Sansoldier
#6
When you're in the water and they're next to you, jump+aether is the best option (performs aether nearly underwater). If they're in the water and you're jumping at them, fair is best, then dair (spike or side KO). If you're both in the water and they're far away, I'd aether at low percents or go for the fair at higher percents.
 
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LoganS97

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#7
I have noticed that i have best matches in the two battle fields in the wii u version, other than that stages with platforms are needed for a successful Ike
 
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GhostUrsa
#8
Sorry about the delay in changing stage topics. Life has been pretty busy. Lets move on to another stage. Delfino Plaza was mentioned, so let us start there. The randomness of the different destinations can both be beneficial or detrimental for Ike. Starting with the mobile platform that takes the fighters to different locations, you get quite a few of the same benefits that Ike has with Battlefield here as well.

With the lowest platform allowing for a fighter to jump through from the bottom though, Ike has to be careful. Ike's more limited vertical recovery can make it hard to attack an opponent from below the stage and recover without having an edge to snap to. Ike's body has to completely pass through the lower part of the stage to register as landing for such a surprise attack to work and have Ike recover. It's not the same as using Aether from below the stage in Battlefield or Final Destination, as he'll not naturally leap to the edge and snap.

As for the destinations, there are quite a few so I'll go over some of the ones found by the guys doing the Stage Analysis.

Most of the locations have a high upper blast zone but decent side blast zones. This makes it harder to go for top stage KO, but a well placed punish near the edge of the screen can make for lethal results. Since all of the destinations except for the Shine gate and 2 islands are walk-off areas, characters with long combos can prove troublesome for Ike. Areas like the Umbrellas and the Docks make it harder for these opponents to continue such an assault since they have lowered areas of the field, which can be used by Ike to get some decent combos if he bounces his opponents against those low walls with a well placed f-tilt or jab combo.

As for the island locations, the water is both a blessing and a curse. You have limited mobility, but can more easily survive blows that launch low. I was unaware of the ability to spike an opponent that is in the water to get them to KO against the low blast zone. This is something I hope to try personally, as it sounds like a great surprise. I can see it being hard to counter against a good spike character, like Captain Falcon or Ganondorf though.

With the Pillars, it can be hard to get back up on those pillars without being open for a punish, so great care must be made when fighting on them. Opponents with a good air game will have a better time fighting here than we will, though with the speed of n-airs and how well Ragnell destroys projectiles it will be harder for spammers to use the terrain to their advantage. They may have the high ground on some of the pillars, but most ranged attacks don't arch. This means Ike's notoriously low crouch can allow him to dodge ranged attacks without wasting time blocking or spot-dodging.

Lastly, we have the Shine Gate. This is an area I feel give Ike the most control, as it behaves similar to other arenas. He has all his edge-guarding capabilities available, and in my experience the blast zones seem the most balanced when it comes to the space it takes for Ike to KO with a well placed smash/tilt. I don't recall if you can Aether through the edges, unfortunately. It's been a while since I've fought in Deflino Plaza and had the Shine Gate show up.

What are your thoughts on the level? Anything I'm not taking into account? If you're curious where I'm getting the names for the different destinations, they are from the Smash Academy's Stage Research chain of threads. Specifically, this one. http://smashboards.com/threads/delfino-plaza-stage-research.383852/
 
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#9
When you're on the rooftop, you can get some easy kills at lower percents because the blast zone (relative to the edge of that part of the stage) is incredibly small.
 
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#10
Gaur Plains is an interesting stage, as whether it's a good level for Ike depends on the version of Smash you are playing. They both share a unique characteristic that is great for Ike, which is that the 'main' platform is high on the stage near the top blastzone. This will make it so that Ike's U-smash, d-throw and other upward launching attacks can kill at much lower %s than you'd normally see. This limitation is double edged, as Ike can be killed at earlier %s as well, though being a heavier character the edge of that blade is slightly dulled for us.

Both versions of Gaur Plains have the riskier parts of the level for Ike on the lower half of the screen, where all of the platforms can be snapped but most can be jumped through from the bottom. This makes Aether recoveries tricky since we'll have to rely on our own reflexes and aim to gain the snap compared to what we're familiar with in more traditional levels. When fighting on the lower platforms, gimps will be far more effective than we are familiar with so Ike will need to take care when fighting here. (Our more limited mobility in the air will give air focused combatants, like Peach, a major edge down there) A benefit of the platforms down there is that they are small without being too small, which allows Ike's reach to still be useful against opponents that aren't adapted to close quarter combat. (They could try to roll out of the way, but still be in range for f-tilt, d-tilt or a smash!) This isn't an ideal situation for characters that excel at close quarters though.

A unique setup to the 3DS version is that the stage is on the smaller side, which provides closer side blast zones. This allows Ike to be more aggressive with his knockback and throws towards the edges. A unique aspect of the Wii U version is that there a 2 platforms at the bottom of the stage that are solid columns down to the blast zone, so we can breath easier when trying to recover low due to the need for precision being alleviated for Aether recoveries. The Wii U version is much larger, which makes it so Ike will have a harder time going for side KOs.

Whether fighting high or low, this level is definitely a high-risk/high-reward type of level for all combatants. Ike is going to want to stay higher to lock in the easier KOs and abuse his muscles. With his limited ability to fight back against opponents below the platform he'll need to stay unpredictable in case an opponent tries to come at his feet. Staying low for Ike is riskier, as our aerial options are far more limited and easier to gimp. n-air will be a life saver down there to prevent projectiles from further reducing our maneuverability. QD will be of very limited use, both in the air and on the platforms. This makes it so Ike will be king on the main platform, so most of your work during a match maybe ideal to train your opponent to want to have the 'safety' of the extra mobility provided there.

Which leaves the elephant in the room, Metal Face. I bring this up last, as his presents makes fighting here on the Wii U version really difficult, though not unmanageable. Unlike Ripley or the Yellow Devil, he doesn't move around the stage which makes staying away from him easier. (He doesn't stick around nearly as long either!) He will still actively attack the players with projectiles though, which means that unless hoops are jumped through to exclude him using the 8-player smash setup this stage will really be seen more when matches are fought on the 3DS. If this level is available, it can be a good pick on the Wii U for Ike against lighter opponents (Launching power for that upper blast zone!) but there are more appropriate options to use for Ike in a 1v1 setting. (With pairs though, this level is much more palpable!)

What are your thoughts on this level, either the 3DS or Wii U versions? Is there anything I'm forgetting about the 3DS or Wii U version that you feel is important?
 

SoundChow

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#11
The best stages for Ike are Battlefield, Final Destination, and Delfino in my opinion. I think he does okay in Smashville, Town and City, Castle Siege, and Duck Hunt, and badly in Halberd (stupid ledge blocks aether on the second transformation). Battlefield is a good stage for a lot of heavyweights because of ledge drop aerials and platforms to escape projectiles. It's also a good stage for juggling characters like ZSS, Captain Falcon, Mario, etc. Because a lot of characters benefit from Battlefield, FD is usually the best stage to go to when against those characters. This is because of Ike's incredible aerial mobility and his ability to control most of FD by pressuring with his jumps. A lot of neutral is just trying to land nair without getting punished, and with all of FD's room you can mix up your approaches so your opponent won't know when to expect your attacks. A lot of people only expect short/full-hop ff-nair in front of them, but double jump fast-fall nair in front/behind your opponent is extremely effective also, because the opponent will usually drop shield expecting you to go for nair after the first jump. Of course if you're playing a mega man or a toon link, FD might not be your best stage choice, but remember that you can usually catch them off guard with a double jump ff-nair/empty hop behind them, and combo them from there. Delfino is kind of similar, it has a lot of room like FD and has platforms like Battlefield to help against projectiles. If someone you're playing against bans Battlefield and uses a projectile spammer, then Delfino is definitely one of your better stage choices.
 

Routa

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#12
As a 3DS Ike hero I have to say good stages for Ike are Arena Ferox and Brinstar.

Thanks to Ike's big brown *cough* dong *cough* he is able to hit through many "walls" and plathforms. Also when the stone statues come, they will "slow down" Ike's Smash attacks and let hitbox stat out for longer. Thanks to plathform layout Zoners aren't as a big problem as in FD.

Now to Brinstar. Lava is your friend. Ike can change the platform layout easily. You can get easy KOes if enemy gets hit by lava (Fair follow up). Also if I'm correct Brinstar doesn't have the highest upper blast-line which can be good think (early U-tilt KOs). Also Zoners suck in this stage so there is that.
 
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#13
One thing you do have to worry about in Brinstar is that your downward strike with Aether can cut through the 'egg sacks' that rest to the right of the center platform, which can cause an SD if you don't get intercepted. As Ragnell cuts a sack, the gap between the two sections of the main platform widen and makes this a self-perpetuating event. (D-smash can cause a similar issue, though recovering from such a fate is easier since the attack gets cancelled once the ground is gone) Cutting the tendons on the two side platforms can help/hinder recoveries on the stage, so care will need to be taken when edge-guarding or recovering. The low ceiling blastzone is definitely something that benefits Ike, as I've been able to KO unlucky opponents with as low as 50% from there with a good timed U-smash. Ike's heavier status makes it harder for your opponent to do the same with a good DI. You'll want to be careful against characters with a good u-throw, like MewTwo, as it is harder to get a good DI off of such moves since they don't arc at all.

The best stages for Ike are Battlefield, Final Destination, and Delfino in my opinion.
Personally, I think Final Destination is only ok for Ike. It's not bad, as you pointed out some benefits and I also touched on some benefits above. But the stage does benefits a lot of other characters more, and some of them are Ike's tougher MUs. With it's larger blast zones, it's harder for Ike to synch the KO and the lack of cover gives zoners and speedsters too much priority on the stage.
 
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#14
Knowing your stages is one of the cornerstones to a good match at a tournament. Don't want your opponent camping you from afar? Pick Battlefield and keep them close-quarters. Going against a R.O.B. who wants to get an earlier kill with UThrow? Try picking Final Destination. For all other purposes? Delfino Plaza gives you the edge with water kills.

There's a ton of combinations to consider. Campy characters like Falco and Mega Man want you at long-range with Duck Hunt and Final Destination to keep you at bay. Using platforms in Battlefield not only puts them at close-quarters, but you can also use the platforms to recover. By land-canceling Quick Draw properly, it truly makes the difference.

Town and City is generally a good stage for Ike as well. The platforms can make or break, however, hence the term generally. ROB can use the UThrow to his advantage, and Sonic can hop around all day with the platforms.

I feel there should be a list made for which characters to ban stages for. All are welcome to contribute.

But in general, I feel Ike's best stages for general circumstances are Battlefield and Delfino Plaza. If either of those are banned, Town and City and Castle Siege are feasible, as the first part of the latter keeps your opponent at close quarters. Lylat Cruise is also fairly good, but not against someone like Peach who can use the platforms to throw Turnips or prep you for a USmash.

So basically, when you add it, it could be <Character> and then <Stages to Ban> to keep them from picking them on you. Which ones give them the most advantage against Ike?

Also, I recommend banning Halberd right off the bat. Nearly any character can use the slope to avoid your hits and get in on you. The slope refers to the incline on either side of the main stage that players use to avoid USmashes, go under your bairs, and whatnot. If you're on the corners (higher side), this becomes a pain. Not to mention the single long platform becomes USmash bait, which is the same problem Ike has on Smashville. Multiple platforms are a much better deal for setups, but Halberd isn't doing us any favors.
 
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Splooshi Splashy

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#15
:4duckhunt:: FD & especially Walled Omegas (ex. Wii Fit Studio, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Woolly World, etc.), because not only do their lack of platforms make traversing his arsenal harder (your default Side B may hit the entirety of his arsenal, but your Side B ends when that happens, and if the dog's nearby when that happens, you're getting punished. Therefore, I'd say that Ike's default Side B loses to his entire arsenal, even Clay), but the dog has a wall-jump that improves his recovery when he reaches the wall, even if he's spent his 2nd jump getting there. Therefore, he gets to take bigger risks in going off-stage to edgeguard you. He also gets to wait longer before reaching the ledge, possibly either throwing off your Neutral B release timing or even being able to wait out your Neutral B.

:4bowserjr:: Kongo Jungle 64 & Lylat Cruise, because Side B Jump Cancels make his recovery better than yours, and Kongo's a big stage, making it harder to KO an already heavy character. Lylat's up 'n down leaning can make it tough for you to recover, which Jr has basically no problems handling (so long as you don't jab 1 him out of his non-Up 2, of course). There's less land for his Mechakoopa to have to roam in Kongo Jungle, which makes Jr's stage control there better, and while there's many platforms for you retreat above at Lylat Cruise, said platforms are where he wants you to be for UAir & FAir sharking, as well as USmashing when you're at KO percent.
 
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#17
I tend to ban fd for most projectile characters, as Ike tends to struggle with them.

But I ban town and city when playing characters with strong projectile game, and strong upsnashes, like Pikachu
 
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#18
Town and City is a stage pick I see quite a bit, and feel will be an excellent starting point for the next set of discussions. The base of the stage is of a good length, with wide enough blast to allow Ike to have ample time to recover without running the risk of having too much gap for recovery. The length still means Ike has to worry about speedsters and zoners, but the gap isn't so long that Ike can't hope to successfully close in on his opponent when the opportunity arises.

There are four transformations, 2 in the City and 2 in the Town, that have different platform layouts that can both help and hinder Ike. Both Town locations have ledges near the edge of the base, similar to Battlefield but with a slight difference. They are higher than expected, which means that Ike may have to double jump to get up on the ledges when chasing targets. This can be troublesome against opponents with Ike's reach, since hitting Ike while he's in the air trying to get on these ledges means Ike could get gimped depending on the hit. This extra height does allow Ike better ledge guarding against high recoveries, which makes intercepting the more aerial character more accessable. As for the remaining platform, one Town transformation has the ledge lower to the base while the other has it higher than the two edges. The lower platform allows for Ike's traditional platform play to be possible, and makes approaching zoners easier. The higher platform is a double edges sword, since it allows for easier kills off the top blast zone but works the same for Ike. Luckily, Ike's heavier size means that this is more threatening when fighting other heavies than the middle and light weights. (Care most be given against characters with moves that have great vertical knockback though, like MewTwo's U-throw or Luigi's U-smash.)

The two City transformations are where things get more interesting. One of the transformations has a double long platform in the center of the stage that is the same height up as the side platforms on Battlefield. The length allows for some interesting approach angles against zoners, and even allows zoners with a faster projectile to cover this platform with some decency. It becomes hard to approach with auto-cancelling f-air off of these due to the amount of space between the edge of the base and the platform. The length also grants speedsters some decent room to move, which can make it more difficult to punish them if they are fighting near the edge. Since it's smaller than the base, Ike's initial dash can cover enough ground to punish middle range whiffs and the height off the ground allows Ike to attack from the base to characters with the high ground easily. You'll want to take care with opponents with aerials that penetrate platforms though, like Game & Watch since Ike is tall enough to get clipped by his d-air.

The second City form has two platforms that are actually off stage, extremely close to the blast zone. These platforms are both a blessing and a curse. The give Ike an additional place to land, complimenting his sub-standard recovery and even allow Ike to punish would-be ledge guarders if he's fast enough since most opponents will need to chase him up there. The proximity to the blast zone also allows Ike's good grab game and tilt knockback to synch in KO's at low %s. The same can be said against Ike though, so great care must be given when on the offense or defense on these platforms. (Add in the walk-off effect possible when the platform is leaving, and Ike can have a bad time against combo brawlers) Another disadvantage is that it makes Ike's Eruption against lower recoveries harder to perform since most of the cast has recoveries that can reach that platform, sidestepping Ike all together. It is the right height for Ike to be able to use a short-hop F-air or B-air to take out unsuspecting targets (I find most people expect their opponent to get up on the ledge, so taking an aerial can throw them off!). I find that Aether can sometimes intercept the target and send them off into the blast zone at mid or high %s, especially if they are prone to Air dodging as you can catch them during the end or landing lag (Depending on where they are).

Is there anything I've missed? Got any good strategies on this stage you're willing to share with your fellow Greil Mercenaries?

Credit: I used the data found in the Stage Research set of threads to help assess this level. For those who want to look at the raw analysis, you can use this url here: http://smashboards.com/threads/town-city-stage-research.384428/
 

Mario766

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#20
I stil feel like Ike should never ban Battlefield unless you're facing ZSS, Falcon or Sheik. Even against Falcon I love BF because platforms help Ike a lot. There's some other lesser known match-ups and what to ban

DDD should never get Smashville, or even TnC. Take him to FD, or if you have counter-picks, go to Duck Hunt. He LOVES to ledge trap, smaller stages let him do it more.

Meta Knight should never get Halberd, everything else isn't that bad. MAYBE ban Delfino due to the low ceilings. Meta Knight really only kills off the top.

Falco can't really camp out Ike, lasers are too slow and have too much end lag. Taking him to long stages makes it harder for back air to kill and his vertical killing isn't amazing, down tilt is a good kill move but besides that he has up smash and up air which are both meh. Take him to big stages with good horizontal blast zones.

Take Fox to any large ceiling stage and make him work for his kills. It's more of what Fox does to Ike ON stage, not how he kills Ike. I'd probably take Fox to BF first game if possible, as Fox has too much space to work with on FD.

Rosalina you want a high ceiling stage. You REALLY can't get up air killed early. FD is okay, BF isn't great. Smashville is a decent first map. Probably ban Halberd and TnC.

Ban BF and SV against Sheik, TnC is a third choice. You want to read the player really and see what he is comfortable with.

Diddy isn't a bad match-up for us anymore. Take him to decent ceiling stage and ban Halberd/Delfino. TnC/SV/FD are good for the match-up IMO.

Luigi you want high ceiling map, ban TnC and Halberd, maybe Delfino.
 
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#21
We have definitely established that Ike's best stages are Battlefield and Delfino Plaza. In the event they get banned, we'll need to find another stronghold or reliable stage without running into one of the listed stages that supports the other character.

We have also established that Halberd and Smashville are the worst choices for Ike. With mild exceptions, ban these as soon as possible.

Duck Hunt's blast zones can make or break you. Players who utilize good DI will use this to survive your Bair at absurd percentages. However, if you know how to cause the Duck Hunt Dog to screw with your opponent, go with it.

Also, remember that the above are general. We need to find the exceptions, but right now, keep these in mind in case you've got a tournament coming up.
 
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#22
Everyone, be wary of picking Battlefield against Pikachu. He can use the platforms to gimmick combo you as well as Ike can against most of the roster. Smashville is a thriving place for Pikachu, so you're honestly best striking Battlefield and Smashville and going straight to Final Destination or Duck Hunt to take him down. Going Duck Hunt also saves you with the huge blast zones. If you can ban three, also pick Town and City or Lylat Cruise - preferably the latter since Town and City isn't as consistent with its platforms.

Neutral stages and flat lands like FD and Duck Hunt are a huge boon for you. Pikachu can't use Quick Attack cancels off the edges and can't gimmick combo you as well. He can't use Thunder Jolt to hit you under the platform and you have more room to get-in since they generally stick to the bottom of Battlefield and take stage control with their superior speed. Not to mention they have Utilt to hit you from their backside, which goes exceedingly fast and is hard to punish.

So against a Pikachu player, pick Delfino Plaza, Final Destination, or Duck Hunt.
 

Splooshi Splashy

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#23
I would like to amend my earlier post about Jr by saying that you should avoid going to Lylat against him, ONLY if he's running Side 3 or Down 2 or both, since Side 3 & Down 2 counteract the issues that his other Side & Down B moves have with that stage that I'll mention shortly. Otherwise feel free to take him there, where his default & Big Mechakoopas struggle with staying on the stage whenever it's stuck bouncing, and the slopes slow down his Kart Dashes (both Side 1 & 2). Recovering there is still going to be a problem for you, however. Especially if he goes deep for the edgeguard, which he's very much capable of, even at Lylat.
The real stage to try to block off against Jr is FD/Omegas, much like it is for DH, when customs are off at least, because default Mechas ruin your ground approaches if you fail to steal or KO it with moves like Dash Attacks, since there's no platforms to retreat to when Mechas are marching, and jumping over it will leave you open for UAir/FAir/NAir sharking.

As for Custom :4charizard: that's running 1311 or 1313, there's 3 stages that I'd definitely ban: Smashville, Castle Siege, and Delfino.
Why? Simple. Dragon Rush (Side 3) + Walkoffs/The 1 floating platform when it's near the edges + 10+% on you beforehand = Ridiculously Early KOs.
 

PyroTakun

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#24
So at Xanadu Lyalat is going to Counter-Pick, with Dreamland becoming a Neutral.

How do we feel about Ike on Dreamland? I haven't got a chance to try it out yet.
 
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#25
I have not yet, but I'll have a chance today. I'll update this post after I've had some time to play on Dreamland, and we'll start that as the next analysis.
 
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#26
Well here is my first impression about Dreamland.

Honestly, Dreamland feels like Battlefield only slightly bigger and the occasional wind gust, so a lot of stuff that applied to BF applies to DL as well.

Platform pressure via U-smash, Uair, Bair, Fair and the like is still a thing, platforms help us with the recovery mix up and we can do some walk off shenanigans.

The occasional wind gust kinda prevented me and my opponents to punish stuff that should be punished on other stages but other than that, really doesn't feel different.

I don't know about the Blastzone though. Is the Blastzone bigger than BF?
 
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san.

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#27
With our lowered landing lag, Dreamland is great for us. The tall platforms make it more difficult for shorter characters to pressure us, while we are left relatively unaffected. We can rising nair/uair onto platforms and extend the combo after that.

We aren't affected by the wind since our hitboxes are so large, while it may influence our opponent's.

Usmash fully covers the lower platforms, and uair nearly covers all of it as well.

Dreamland's blastzones are smaller than Battlefield's, making this stage really good for Ike. It may be his best stage.
 
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#28
I do like how Dreamland handles with Ike, though care should be taken into account when using QD for recovery. The wind can throw off our aim if it suddenly goes off when aiming for the ledge snap, or blow us over the base if we are trying to perform a slide landing. It's not a nasty detriment, since it effects our opponents as well but the light wind effect can make it so we'll have to compensate for sudden movements while airborne.

The platform heights do allow us to have more options with walk-off attacks, though it can be harder to hit shorter opponents with the extra drop range if your going off of muscle memory for our strikes. With a little forethought, we should be able to adjust accordingly during play. A player's acclimation speed will be important in this stage, since a smart opponent will be relying on the unpredictability of the stage to throw off Ike's early defense game.
 
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#30
Okay, so first question. Let's take Zero Suit Samus and Rosalina, for instance. I've learned from experience to not go Halberd against Rosalina. San tells me stages like Smashville and Battlefield are also bad choices, and go with FD instead. Neutral grounds will save you from the juggles.

ZSS is more or less a mystery though. I have fought even fewer good ZSS' than I have Rosalinas. I've had good experience with the usual Battlefield platform tricks, but I'm not sure if we should keep Delfino or what to ban.
 

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#31
To go into slightly more detail, Battlefield is good for both Ike and Rosalina, so you're still taking a risk. Smashville is also just meh, but it depends on how heavily the Rosalina utilizes the platform for camping.

Ike's best stages IMO:

Dreamland 64
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination (customs)

After this, there's a conglomerate of stages that are just decent for him, and usually personal experience trumps however good Ike may be on the rest. I don't like Smashville as much just because Ike can't aether through the undersides as easily. This makes recovering more of a chore.
 
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#32
I certainly wouldn't do Lylat Cruise on someone like Pikachu or Peach. I generally tend to avoid that one as much as possible.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be to make a list of the 3 stages we should ban per character. I contend that Town and City is a bad place to take Sonic, while @ Mario766 Mario766 insists on avoiding Duck Hunt, something I agree with completely. So to start the list, let's go with Sonic.

Stage ban list:

Sonic - Town & City, Duck Hunt, Final Destination

Town & City gives Sonic the above approach, while Duck Hunt can allow him to kill you quickly with Uair on the left side of the stage. Final Destination gives him leeway, but it's the least of the three evils since it's a straight-up neutral, and doesn't give Sonic the ability to set you up from far away and close in on you for using higher ground. Sonic also doesn't seem to get any sort of advantage if you play him on Halberd.

Rosalina - Town & City, Battlefield, Halberd

Town & City and Battlefield will allow Rosalina to set up deadly juggles with Uair. Ojama picked Halberd on me at a regional tournament once, so she seems to have an advantage there.

Mega Man - Town & City, Battlefield, Lylat maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLa5NskI8ug

Mega Man can use platform stages to juggle Uair on you. This can screw you over and kill you well below 100%.

ROB - Halberd, Smashville, Town & City

ROB can early-kill you with UThrow in the first two stages. In T&C, it's not as likely. Battlefield ruins his approach options.

None of these are final, as I would greatly appreciate feedback from San and the rest of the posters here. I picked three because, in tournaments, you're generally going to ban 2/3 stages against a single opponent. If we should add one more, that's also fine.

Pikachu - Lylat Cruise, Battlefield

I don't know what the third stage would be, but I have too much MU experience with Pikachu to not mention him. He can use Battlefield and Lylat Cruise for Quick Attack ledge-cancels and bounce around you all day. He also has as much combo ability as you, if not even more on the platforms. You are much better off going to Final Destination, or even Smashville if you have to.

Ness - Duck Hunt, Lylat Cruise

BAN DUCK HUNT ASAP. He can use PK Thunder to crash into the wall and use it again. This will screw up your Eruption timing horrifically. He'll also survive your best kills while getting you quickly with BThrow or take advantage of the stage's high ceiling to repeatedly PK Thunder you for juggles. Take out Lylat next so he can't screw up your approach while strengthening his own. The platform heights do very well for his shorthop Fairs, which all but match ours in range, but come out faster.
 
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Mario766

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#33
The main stage you want to take Sheik to is Battlefield. Avoid Smashville and maybe TnC. Smashville is a must ban, it's Sheik's best stage. Battlefield makes Bouncing Fish less safe. I'd leave Dreamland, Battlefield and Lylat open honestly.
Smashville is also Pikachu's worst stage, with FD as a second worst. Anything without platforms that are easily QAC able.
 
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Linkmario00

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Linkmario00
#34
Against Rosa, banning Delfino Plazahas the ppriority over T&C for me. The concept is the same as Halberd, she can kill at ridiculous low percent with Upair and the stage has more platform for Juggling
 
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OgnarPliskin
#35
Xaltis killed me at Delfino Plaza. His BThrow even killed me from one edge to the other at the fountain area.

I'm starting to think we have no business playing Falco on Battlefield. His hitboxes are pretty big and come out quickly, and his Bair has almost as much potency to combo and chase us as Pikachu's aerials do.
 
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TheNiddo
#36
As far as I'm aware, pretty much every MU out there should have Ike at least striking Smashville during the first round. There are very few, if any times where SV isn't a bad stage for us. Platform rarely helps us, stage too small for good spacing. Either Battlefield or FD are going to be better in most cases, and of course we should almost always be aiming for Dreamland 64 when possible.

The fact so many people bank on playing it constantly would also be in our favour. Would throw them off a bit.
 
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OgnarPliskin
#37
As far as I'm aware, pretty much every MU out there should have Ike at least striking Smashville during the first round. There are very few, if any times where SV isn't a bad stage for us. Platform rarely helps us, stage too small for good spacing. Either Battlefield or FD are going to be better in most cases, and of course we should almost always be aiming for Dreamland 64 when possible.

The fact so many people bank on playing it constantly would also be in our favour. Would throw them off a bit.
We have to go Smashville if a Pikachu player takes out Final Destination, though. We do not want to find his ledge-canceling gimmicks at Battlefield or Dream Land. It would be effective to create a list of characters to avoid on those stages.
 
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GhostUrsa
#38
I was testing last night to see how much of my memory was eschewed with old data from previous entries, and I can say that the wind does effect offstage characters. But they have to be at a height where Whispy Wood's trunk and some of his lower branches are level with them to be effected. (if you were to divide the visible arena into thirds, it would be the middle part.) Being higher or lower than this area has no effect, which means that using QD in an attempt to sliding-cancel on the ground or one of the platforms could be slightly harder when the wind is blowing while using QD for a high recovery or Aether for low recoveries is fine.

Luckily, the wind effect in Smash 4 has been toned down drastically from previous entries so it's not a large concern. But we'll have to take into account that about 5-10% more momentum is required to have the same distance when moving against the wind, and 5-10% less with it. (I'm ball-parking the percentages. With some more study and real statistics, I can give a more accurate amount. I'm just going off of the feel of using Ike on those stages) I tested how the wind works by going into training and seeing how much it affects Ike in a non-directional short hop on stage on both the base and the platforms, and then watching how it affects his non-directional double jump off stage for medium, and deep recoveries. (if I perform a short hop at the edge when the wind blows, it will blow me off stage, which made this test easy to do.)
 
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Quickbobhero
#39
I seem to have the most trouble in Battlefield, actually, especially against characters like ZSS and even just giant characters like Charizard. I just have no clue how to properly hit them if I'm above a platform as characters like these have an easy time hitting Ike if they are below him while I can't seem to punish them in this position myself.

Any tips you guys could give me to help me out would be greatly appreciated. :)
 
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OgnarPliskin
#40
I seem to have the most trouble in Battlefield, actually, especially against characters like ZSS and even just giant characters like Charizard. I just have no clue how to properly hit them if I'm above a platform as characters like these have an easy time hitting Ike if they are below him while I can't seem to punish them in this position myself.

Any tips you guys could give me to help me out would be greatly appreciated. :)
Bait them when you try to come down to ground level. You could also go for the ledge or even Aether your way downward so they can't juggle you. Avoid stages like Battlefield against juggle-friendly characters, like Rosalina. Most of all, take advantage of the stage. Knock someone onto a platform. If you read the knockdown and getup or their tech, follow up with a Bair. That's where your combo hits. You can use Fair when they're on the high platform since it hits now. Uair works as well. They have more problem with you on ground level than they do with you on the platforms. Trust me.

The thing about Battlefield is that people, like Falco, can't camp you. Unfortunately, unlike Brawl, Falco now benefits from Battlefield due his superior combo ability, so you're better off fighting him on FD or SV. But against most characters, it keeps them at close quarters, so you can use the most out of your spacing and platform followups for maximum damage.
 
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