B!squick
Smash Master
Battlefeild is Bowser's best neutral and he can survive Bowsercides during one of the many stages changes Delfino has...
But hey, your loss, not mine.
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Stage Counter Pick and Bans - Currently disscusing: DK
- Thread starter crewster
- Start date
But hey, your loss, not mine.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
I take bowser to Frigate. Of my 3 favorite counters, this is the one that doesn't help bowser. Plus his recovery is bad news on this stage, makes for easy edgeguarding.
kigbariom
Smash Lord
Yeah, It's hard to recover on Frigate, when it flips around and he didn't expect it, he's in trouble.
I don't think Delfino is a bad CP, I don't think it's that good either.
I don't think Delfino is a bad CP, I don't think it's that good either.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
The way I play frigate is as follows.
Frist transformation, play a camp game. Do everything you can to not get hit, pass up risky hits, take only sure hits. Once the stage starts to warn of a flip get super agressive. As agressive as you possibly can without using your double jump. When the stage flips, hope for a gimp, try to make it happen. When the stage resets, play a central stage control game with fireballs. Get agressive again at stage flip, rinse, repeat.
It works very well against characters you might take here, peach, DK, oli, bowser, snake, link, zss, a few others.
Frist transformation, play a camp game. Do everything you can to not get hit, pass up risky hits, take only sure hits. Once the stage starts to warn of a flip get super agressive. As agressive as you possibly can without using your double jump. When the stage flips, hope for a gimp, try to make it happen. When the stage resets, play a central stage control game with fireballs. Get agressive again at stage flip, rinse, repeat.
It works very well against characters you might take here, peach, DK, oli, bowser, snake, link, zss, a few others.
B!squick
Smash Master
Frigate is a small stage with platforms which generally = good news for Bowser.
TheRockSays
Smash Journeyman
i would counter pick rainbow cruise so he can't koopa hop 
B!squick
Smash Master
Good, but RC is good because Bowser has to move and jump around alot. You make it sound like Bowser's game revolves around Koopa Hopping.
PolMex23
Smash Champion
I still would take him to Battlefield, its my favorite stage.
Just my choice really. I **** hard core sex there
Just my choice really. I **** hard core sex there
kigbariom
Smash Lord
BF is my favorite stage too, It's great for hefty characters, they can't stand a chance against Luigi
B!squick
Smash Master
Okay. Anyone live near Florida that wants to... dare I say it... show me your moves?! I'm up for some Wifi matches and I play a decent Bowser.
TheRockSays
Smash Journeyman
well thats what they are going to do, if we pick a flat platform or koopa ledge :/Good, but RC is good because Bowser has to move and jump around alot. You make it sound like Bowser's game revolves around Koopa Hopping.
B!squick
Smash Master
And what, you think it isn't possible to Klaw Jump when there's platforms on the stage? The only reason why we usually don't is because we don't need too. It's better to just sit under platforms.
Besides, you have a completely horizontal projectile, just flick those if Bowser's jumping at you.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
Reopened by request.
PolMex23
Smash Champion
Final D for DK..yea, i said it....
An Delphino for Bowser
An Delphino for Bowser
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I hate Dk. I almost play DK on a slight regular basis. If you find Bum (Bum's easily best ranking player in most of EC/NY and best DK hands down) then you'll get slaughtered. I mean it too.
DK IMO is like 50:50 matchup at the very best, but very good DKs who know how to space very well, it's probably 4/6 or 45:55 DK's favor srsly.
Bans = Battlefield, Norfair, Lylat Cruise, Jungle Japes (!!!!), Brinstar (alot more but im lazy to list)
My reasons stands as follows
For Bf , for many obv reasons. DK benefits well anything with platforms, his utilt/upsmash/upair expose our blind spot from below. We get wrecked everywhere if we're on a platform. Not to mention his range is giant monster. maybe 45:55 / 4:6 in the neutrals platforms and others IMO
As for Norfair, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg82fgpS-3g&feature=channel_page @ 0:53. that's more of a good enough reason why not to choose this stage, if you want to get bair/upb'd wall'd to like 60% lol.
For jungle japes, he ****ing ***** the **** here. He has the home field advantage mangz. If he falls in the water, he'll ALWAYS recover in time because of his horizontal recovery. Don't **** with the ****ing ape. He kills early on sides zones.
For counter picks = FD, smashville, possibly Pokemon stadium 1 (?) , Frigate, RC (?)
anything flat to throw a projectile at him. FD works generally well because you have alot of room, it's easily to juggle trap him when he airdodges in front of you. As for RC, im not sure with this stage.
ill update this post abit later crewster, post this thread in their matchup thread kthnx
DK IMO is like 50:50 matchup at the very best, but very good DKs who know how to space very well, it's probably 4/6 or 45:55 DK's favor srsly.
Bans = Battlefield, Norfair, Lylat Cruise, Jungle Japes (!!!!), Brinstar (alot more but im lazy to list)
My reasons stands as follows
For Bf , for many obv reasons. DK benefits well anything with platforms, his utilt/upsmash/upair expose our blind spot from below. We get wrecked everywhere if we're on a platform. Not to mention his range is giant monster. maybe 45:55 / 4:6 in the neutrals platforms and others IMO
As for Norfair, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg82fgpS-3g&feature=channel_page @ 0:53. that's more of a good enough reason why not to choose this stage, if you want to get bair/upb'd wall'd to like 60% lol.
For jungle japes, he ****ing ***** the **** here. He has the home field advantage mangz. If he falls in the water, he'll ALWAYS recover in time because of his horizontal recovery. Don't **** with the ****ing ape. He kills early on sides zones.
For counter picks = FD, smashville, possibly Pokemon stadium 1 (?) , Frigate, RC (?)
anything flat to throw a projectile at him. FD works generally well because you have alot of room, it's easily to juggle trap him when he airdodges in front of you. As for RC, im not sure with this stage.
ill update this post abit later crewster, post this thread in their matchup thread kthnx
chic
Smash Ace
DK... Ban brinstar
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
lol go to DK's matchup thread, post this thread so they can come here and help with stage bans/cps.
Darknid
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 449
I'm a DK, not too good of one but I know DK pretty well. One thing I can say is you should abuse that tornado without being too obvious about it, because that's your only way to approach DK with any sort of remarkable speed. If they can't space you well, you have an advantage, but most DKs know how their spacing. Some do's and dont's
Do:
Abuse tornado, I hate that move and it's not so easy to intercept. Good to use the moment the DK player gets away from you after a combo, I especially hate being followed by that thing.
Recover HIIIIGH. His bair WOP will kill you very easily.
Abuse fireball, DK doesn't have a projectile. They probably won't damage him but they will keep him busy.
Powershield, you can punish DK with combos if you PS him(unless the attack was spaced very well)
Don't:
It's probably not a good idea to mess with him offstage, chances are you're not gimping him.
Do not be obvious when returning from a ledge, he'll kill you in an instant. Never underestimate that F smash or its range. Better to assume you're in its range and avoid it.
Don't stay on the ground, there's really nothing you can do to him on the ground.
Don't let him reach you.
Don't shield in anticipation of an attack. DK's grab game is deadly and he can also break your shield very quickly.
Basically, he will space you and laugh at your range the whole time, that is until you hit him with a combo. He is also one of the most physically gifted characters. He's faster than you in every way, and he weighs several tons. Don't let him play his game. Don't let him space you. If you have to, just stay completely away until you find a beautiful opening. DK will kill you in 5-8 hits, by the way.
Matchup is 55-45 Luigi IMO.
Stages..DK's best stages are Luigi's Mansion, Brinstar and Jungle Japes. I highly recommend banning Japes. I can't see you winning at all there. Ever. You won't be killing off the top any time soon and unless you land an F smash, you're not going to kill at all. Meanwhile, you die just as early to his punch, F smash, oh and if he grabs you he can kill you at like 30% by stage spiking you into the water. He stands on the middle platform and bounces you off the left one, and if done right you will land in the water and die before you can even jump out. If he grabs you, prepare to tech this.
Though, on Luigi's Mansion you're pretty boned too. Unless one of these two stages is banned, don't expect to beat DK on his CP.
Now, as for yours..Well, don't pick rainbow cruise, for one. Frigate is better. Don't pick corneria either. One grab and he can carry you over to a wall on RC or corneria and execute a grab infinite or a tilt infinite on you that leads into a D smash for an instant kill. I'd say pick frigate just because of that little area on the right. But once you do, stay the hell away from that area because he can gimp you there too. I really don't know what other stage would benefit you, DK is pretty adaptable.
So basically, he will space you and kill you early if you let him, recover very high or be gimped, and tornado is quite nice in this matchup. You can combo him hard too.
Stages:
BAN Japes, avoid Mansion, avoid Brinstar, avoid Norfair, avoid Delfino, avoid Distant Planet
CP Frigate, FD, SV
But I don't consider myself an expert. If another, more knowledgeable DK main contradicts me, take his word for it.
Do:
Abuse tornado, I hate that move and it's not so easy to intercept. Good to use the moment the DK player gets away from you after a combo, I especially hate being followed by that thing.
Recover HIIIIGH. His bair WOP will kill you very easily.
Abuse fireball, DK doesn't have a projectile. They probably won't damage him but they will keep him busy.
Powershield, you can punish DK with combos if you PS him(unless the attack was spaced very well)
Don't:
It's probably not a good idea to mess with him offstage, chances are you're not gimping him.
Do not be obvious when returning from a ledge, he'll kill you in an instant. Never underestimate that F smash or its range. Better to assume you're in its range and avoid it.
Don't stay on the ground, there's really nothing you can do to him on the ground.
Don't let him reach you.
Don't shield in anticipation of an attack. DK's grab game is deadly and he can also break your shield very quickly.
Basically, he will space you and laugh at your range the whole time, that is until you hit him with a combo. He is also one of the most physically gifted characters. He's faster than you in every way, and he weighs several tons. Don't let him play his game. Don't let him space you. If you have to, just stay completely away until you find a beautiful opening. DK will kill you in 5-8 hits, by the way.
Matchup is 55-45 Luigi IMO.
Stages..DK's best stages are Luigi's Mansion, Brinstar and Jungle Japes. I highly recommend banning Japes. I can't see you winning at all there. Ever. You won't be killing off the top any time soon and unless you land an F smash, you're not going to kill at all. Meanwhile, you die just as early to his punch, F smash, oh and if he grabs you he can kill you at like 30% by stage spiking you into the water. He stands on the middle platform and bounces you off the left one, and if done right you will land in the water and die before you can even jump out. If he grabs you, prepare to tech this.
Though, on Luigi's Mansion you're pretty boned too. Unless one of these two stages is banned, don't expect to beat DK on his CP.
Now, as for yours..Well, don't pick rainbow cruise, for one. Frigate is better. Don't pick corneria either. One grab and he can carry you over to a wall on RC or corneria and execute a grab infinite or a tilt infinite on you that leads into a D smash for an instant kill. I'd say pick frigate just because of that little area on the right. But once you do, stay the hell away from that area because he can gimp you there too. I really don't know what other stage would benefit you, DK is pretty adaptable.
So basically, he will space you and kill you early if you let him, recover very high or be gimped, and tornado is quite nice in this matchup. You can combo him hard too.
Stages:
BAN Japes, avoid Mansion, avoid Brinstar, avoid Norfair, avoid Delfino, avoid Distant Planet
CP Frigate, FD, SV
But I don't consider myself an expert. If another, more knowledgeable DK main contradicts me, take his word for it.
Veggi
Smash Champion
For bans it's obviously Jungle Japes because Luigi's giant vertical recovery doesn't mean much there and DK's up b can kill him off the right side of the stage if he feels like it. Luigi's KO options are worse, I can't say their bad because on a neutral stage it starts off at amazing. However, the high roof does hinder it a lot. From what I remember Luigi can angle his fsmash down to kill off the side, so that might be a good option. Luigi's mansion and Brinstar are good stages for DK, but against Luigi they don't seem that great. On Luigi's I'd imagine Luigi could make it a pain to approach unless DK went behind a pillar and tried to stalemate with his down b. Then Luigi could bounce him off the roof a couple hundred times, but DK could do the same to him, so I'm not sure.
Corneria I would suggest, but I'm sure every DK main is better at that stage than I am. Plus DK has a wall trap and can knock Luigi off the side boundaries easy. Green Greens would probably be the best bet because the platforms could help him a lot, he could use the apples to glide toss, control the bomb blocks with fire balls, he also has the recovery advantage. Plus Luigi is green and the stage is called "Green Greens", therefore Luigi would be hard to find.
Corneria I would suggest, but I'm sure every DK main is better at that stage than I am. Plus DK has a wall trap and can knock Luigi off the side boundaries easy. Green Greens would probably be the best bet because the platforms could help him a lot, he could use the apples to glide toss, control the bomb blocks with fire balls, he also has the recovery advantage. Plus Luigi is green and the stage is called "Green Greens", therefore Luigi would be hard to find.