Data Stage Changes When Hazard Toggle is On

[ParanoidDrone]

We have footage of hazardless New Pork City of all stages now -- the Ultimate Chimera doesn't appear, the destructible floor on the bottom appears indestructible, and the swinging boat in the middle is stationary. Couldn't tell if the flying limo was present or not, although I'd assume not until proven otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWlyCF4tN-4

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I just saw that match, and I was about to post the same thing. I'll update the OP with this absolutely essential meta information.

 

[dav3yb]

It's certainly no hard confirmation, but watching the Wendy's Tailgate promo video, you get a brief clip of Rainbow Cruise. It could be because of how they updated the looks and redesigned some of the elements, but it certainly appears that the ship is completely stationary. (The feather oars on the sides still seems to move, but not quite like they did in melee/brawl)

https://youtu.be/x-gzq4plgYk?t=38

 

[Untouch]

https://twitter.com/Greward3
https://twitter.com/Marcbri

Some more info here.

 

[TreeBranch]

https://twitter.com/Greward3
https://twitter.com/Marcbri

Some more info here.

Huh, I guess some transforming stages transform, while others don't for some reason. I thought it might be determined by having a transform animation, but rainbow cruise and Skyloft both stay on the same platform anyway. I'm hoping this gets fixed in a patch. I was really looking forward to hazardous Delfino...

 

[ParanoidDrone]

There's a 1v1 hazards-off tournament going on here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjME4R9H_G8

Known so far from the stream and twitter people who saw other matches at the same event:
Pokemon Stadium: No transformations
Super Happy Tree: Still has the clouds.
Duck Hunt: No ducks/dog
Reset Bomb Forest: No transformations
Warioware: No transformations
Delfino Plaza: Still transforms
Hyrule Castle: No tornadoes
Mute City SNES: Static layout, ground still hurts you
Yoshi's Island: Middle platform doesn't tilt, no Shy Guys or Whimsical Support Ghost
Mushroom Kingdom: No change (???)
Living Room: No change (???)
Green Greens: No blocks/bomb blocks, no mention of Whispy Woods and apples
Jungle Japes: No Klaptrap, water still carries you offscreen
Unova Pokemon League: Flat + 2 platforms, Pokemon appear but do nothing
Dream Land: No wind
Boxing Ring: No change
Suzaku Castle: No change
Castle Siege: No transformations
Norfair: No lava
Figure-8 Circuit: No karts
Saffron City: No Pokemon
Town & City: No balloons, platforms do not move all the way to blast zone
Princess Peach's Castle: No Banzai Bill, no buttons for platforms, existing platforms static
Umbra Clock Tower: No platforms
Wily Castle: No platforms, no Yellow Devil
Distant Planet: Leaf platforms don't sink under player weight, no rain, no Bulborb, no pill flowers
Paper Mario: No transformations, no desk fan blowing wind
Tomodachi Life: No change
Dracula's Caste: "Static and good"
Kongo Falls: Rock still exists, stage doesn't sink under player weight, no logs getting stuck in waterfall
Bridge of Eldin: No King Bulblin or bomb
Mario Circuit: Still transforms, no Shy Guys, background is still dangerous
Moray Towers: No change
Skyloft: No transformations
Luigi's Mansion: Pillars can't be hit
Mushroom Kingdom U: No transformations
Frigate Orpheon: No fllipping
Golden Plains: No coins
Brinstar: Stage elements are indestructible, no acid
Gerudo Valley: Indestructible bridge, no Twinrova
Spirit Tracks: "Stage doesn't move at all" (relative to screen or tracks?), platforms sometimes float overhead
Shadow Moses Island: Indestructible walls
Coliseum: No platforms (boring...)
Wii Fit Studio: Two static platforms
The Summit: Still transforms, no fish, ice is unbreakable
Brinstar Depths: No Kraid, therefore static
Rainbow Cruise: Static stage, just the ship
Halberd: Combo Cannon does not attack, otherwise no change
Fountain of Dreams: Platforms are static
Pokemon Stadium 2: No transformations
3D Land: No spikes, otherwise no change
Smashville: Platform is static, no balloons
Wuhu Island: No transformations
Port Town Aero Dive: No racers, track is still dangerous when flying around
Kalos Pokemon League: No transformations
Arena Ferox: Starts at and remains in statues transformation
Pilotwings: Red plane only, background is still dangerous
Pirate Ship: No catapult, tornado, bombs, shipwreck, King of Red Lions, tilting
Corneria: No Arwings or laser
Venom: No Arwings
Final Destination: No change lol
Yoshi's Island Melee: Flip blocks don't react to attacks
Yoshi's Story: No Randall, no Shy Guys
Peach's Castle: No bumper, sliding platform is static
Balloon Fight: No bumpers/fish/lightning, stalactites are indestructible
Mario Maker: Inconclusive, need more data re: random layouts
Lylat Cruise: No tilting
Gamer: No 5-Volt, need more data re: random layouts
Tortimer Island: No fruit or sharks, layout still random
Kongo Jungle: No barrel, moving platforms are static and roughly level with top platforms
New Donk City Hall: Acts like Prism Tower, not all stops are used each cycle

 

[DaUsername]

Edit 2: Actual new information
Smashville: The floating platform doesn't move(!) The balloons are also gone.
Mushroom Kingdom 64: Balance platform in the middle is now gone, now POW blocks, No Piranha Plants, not sure if the pipes are useable
Mario Galaxy: Seems to be the same

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Sometime soon I'll update this thread with all known information. For now, I'm dropping this video as it contains quality information on two previously poorly documented stages:

We get our first look at hazardless Garden of Hope, and it's not quite what anyone expected. Absolutely none of the breakable objects are present at all... including the bridge! Also the weight platforms are present, unlike on MK64, but here they are completely immobile. The stage is also either completely huge (Charizard lives to 255%) or Lucario is just really bad in Ultimate, possibly both.

We also get a really clear look at no hazards Find Mii. The cage is just a constant wall, and that right island is really far away. It doesn't really do anything, but it looks like a pretty poor stage nonetheless.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I tell you what, I'm on pins and needles to learn about Magicant. Does that platform (you know the one) exist with hazards off?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I just updated the original post of this thread with all known information to my knowledge. It was a lot of work, but I was as clear and detailed as I could be about what all of these stages do so people can have maximum information. If I have made any mistakes, if you have information on a stage I list as unknown at the bottom, or if you can show some footage or elaborate on any of the stages with a TODO note, please let me know!

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I just updated the original post of this thread with all known information to my knowledge. It was a lot of work, but I was as clear and detailed as I could be about what all of these stages do so people can have maximum information. If I have made any mistakes, if you have information on a stage I list as unknown at the bottom, or if you can show some footage or elaborate on any of the stages with a TODO note, please let me know!

If memory serves, we have text (but not video) reports of Summit and Living Room with hazards off via Twitter from Spain. Summit reportedly still cycles, but the destructible ice block is non-interactive, the icicle never appears, and the fish is absent. Living Room is reportedly the same, including the blocks doing damage if they fall on your head.

I have no secondary supporting source for either of these so take that as you will.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

If memory serves, we have text (but not video) reports of Summit and Living Room with hazards off via Twitter from Spain. Summit reportedly still cycles, but the destructible ice block is non-interactive, the icicle never appears, and the fish is absent. Living Room is reportedly the same, including the blocks doing damage if they fall on your head.

I have no secondary supporting source for either of these so take that as you will.

Thanks, I'll add it similarly to how I added other stages we've only been told about and that I haven't directly seen.

I would also speculate, based on the pattern of stages we've seen, that the demo's random stage probably didn't have every stage on. I'm guessing the "Nintendo is weird about streaming these" EarthBound and Sonic stages weren't on, and it seems likely the super huge stages were off too which is why we somehow dodges all of Temple, The Great Cave Offensive, and Palutena's Temple (thank goodness some kind demo player chose New Pork City; as an EarthBound stage and a huge stage, we'd have no chance at seeing its behavior otherwise). A few of the stages we don't have here are probably coincidence and we'll see them in the future, but I'd speculate that most of them are simply not going to appear before release if future events use the same settings.

 

[DaUsername]

Looks like it's my time to shine.

Mushroom Kingdom 64: Pipes aren't enterable
Balloon Fight: Still has looping walkoffs, layout still random
Mario Bros.: No POW blocks, Enimies never spawn. Also, this stage now has looping walkoffs.
Pictochat 2: No drawings, making it a Final Destination clone
Midgar: No Materia, making it a Battlefield clone
Great Cave Offensive: No minecarts or treasure chests. There's still KO lava and spikes, though
Spear Pillar: Pokémon show up in the background, but they dont affect the match in any way
Flat Zone X: Stage stays in it's starting layout with the 3 randomized floating platforms
Big Blue: There are no cars, leaving just the road and the Falcon Flyer. The stages still moves like it did before, though
Tomodachi Life: The walls are gone, so you can see the whole stage at once
Hanenbow: Leaves don't move
75m: No Fireballs or springs, DK doesn't attack
Windy Hill Zone: Windmill doesn't move, floating springboards are gone
PAC-LAND: Fire hydrants don't shoot water, falling bridges don't fall, etc.

Haven't gotten around to testing the other stages yet.
Edit: Missed some stuff

 

[Luigifan18]

Does Mario Bros. have looping walkoffs with hazards on as well? It always bothered me that it didn't back in Brawl.

 

[DaUsername]

Got around to the rest of them.

Wii Fit: The platforms never leave, but they're still randomized and the still lower slightly when standing on them
Palutena's Temple: Platforms don't move, bridge is indestructible, springs and spikes are gone
Magicant: No Flying Man. Sky Runner, Dungeon Man, etc. never show up. Unfortunately, the cloud below the main platform is still there
Dream Land GB: Unchanged
Living Room: Unchanged
Temple: Unchanged

Let me know if I missed anything.

Does Mario Bros. have looping walkoffs with hazards on as well? It always bothered me that it didn't back in Brawl.

Yes.

 

[lordvaati]

Hazardless New Donk City is a crime against humanity and never should be played that way.

 

[Black_Ice_Gaming]

Dear All Smash Fans~



Okay so i’ve seen many ideas for a competitive smash ultimate and honestly I’m very disappointed with them. This is because we have a very unique opportunity in the fact that the competitive community has actually been thought of and not disregarded. So I have an idea on what a rule set can be all I need is for you to share this so everyone can see it. Now than before we begin i’d like to say from the bottom of my heart thank you for taking your time with this let us now begin.





~STOCK AND TIME~





Now after playing Ultimate since the midnight release of the game I’ve had an idea on how long matches will last after playing with others who are switching from playing other smash games competitively one coming from Melee the other two coming from Sm4sh and my self also coming from Melee. After playing for some time this is what we thought.

• 4 Stock

• 8 Minutes

This gives more than enough time for the match to play out and not be timed out nor have to few stock to were it would end to fast. This is the same rules as melee altho I could see the stock count changing to three as well. There really isn’t much to explain here so i’ll move on to the next subject.





~FINAL SMASH METER~





I think the Final Smash Meter (which i’ll now be referring to as FS Meter) should be tried if it is not it may never, if we banned it right away and what to try to later many will be reluctant to and it will be much harder to get people to have a open mind once the rules are finalized. Here are some of the key points about the meter I will explain more after it is listed.



#1).The FS Meter is similar to other fighting game Ultimate Moves.



#2).It gives variation to a fight.



#3.)Makes the game have more depth with how it can be used.



#4).From what i’ve seen it is not broken and every Final Smash can be avoided.



Now lets get into the first point most fighting games played competitively has some for of a Ultimate Move Street Fighter II, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs. Capcom, Injustice Gods Among Us. Their Ultimate moves from what i’ve found are completely aloud in competitive play. Now on to point two. The fights would have more variation with the visuals of the Final Smash along with players having a new move to use. As for point three its easy to explain ill do this one with a example first. Lets say that a Incineroar has their meter ready and than get launch off stage they could try using Incineroar’s Final Smash which would rush him forward allowing them to recover from what his poor recovery would consider death most the time. This is one of many examples on how it gives game play variation. Now for the final point four. The FS Meter Final Smash is overall weaker than one from a Smash Ball. Along with the fact that in this game they are meant to be more like Ultimate Moves I don’t see any that are busted. Now than this one is a bit incorrect not every character can doge every Final Smash like Little Mac trying to dodge Ice Climbers on Fountain Of Dreams. But overall a Pichu won’t beat a Bayonetta and just like match ups some are just better at dogging Final Smashes but overall the cast can all dodge a hefty amount of them but now lets move on to the next part.





~SPIRITS~





This will be fast but I thought I should still talk about it in case someone who supported for customs in Sm4sh was wondering. Its a easy no the Spirits give to much randomness and would take to long setting up at tournaments. Not only that but they can also allow a player to have a item like the Lip’s Stick. So overall the Spirits are a easy no, they should be banned we seen them in Sm4sh where they was the exact same in the form of customs.





~STAGE HAZARDS~





Now let us get a tad weird shall we? I’ll first say the rules than describe it and that is both have it on and off. Let me explain, so in Ultimate you have the ability to save rulesets so I say we should make two rulesets both being used in one tournament being swapped between i’ll start making my points now.



#1).More stages can be allowed.



#2).Lets stages be more unique.



And thats it but it makes a huge impact heres why. With stage hazards turned off the stages Dream Land, Fountain of Dreams, and Yoshi’s Story all becomes Battlefield with some differences around the bottoms of the stage and the blast zones but normal on Dream Lands a breeze will blow on Fountain of Dreams the platforms will rise and fall and on Yoshi’s Story Randle (That cloud) will go around the bottom of the stage on a timer. Along with that some other things are Pokemon Stadium not transforming Yoshi’s Island not having it’s top platform move or the side platforms show. Smashville not having its platform move the same goes for Town and City.



But even than we lose if we just leave hazards on because now stages that can be use with the hazards off now can’t because of their hazards like for example. Halberd firing lasers and canon balls, Reset Bomb Forest transforming the same goes for Castle Siege. PictoChat 2 now having drawings and WarioWare, Inc. playing it’s mini games.

So the solution is simple we make two save rule list one called “Ultimate Hazards On” and another named “Ultimate Hazards Off” with the rules being

• 4 Stock

• 8 Minutes

• FS Meter On

then one will have hazards on the other hazards off now we have the best of both the variation of stages like Fountain of dreams but more stages that would other wise be unusable like WarioWare, Inc.





~STAGE LIST HAZARDS ON~





This one will be short ill just list the stages I think should be able to be picked with the Hazard On rules.

• Omega/Battlefield Stages along with the original Battlefield and Final Destination.
• DreamLand
• Fountain of Dreams
• Yoshi’s Story
• Pokemon Stadium
• Lylat Cruise
• Yoshi’s Island
• Smashville
• Town and City
• Prism Tower
• Duck Hunt
• Umbra Clock Tower

And that is all for what I think should be aloud for competitive play with hazards on now granted the stage list can be changed if there are problems found.





~STAGE LIST HAZARDS OFF~





This one will also be short the same as the last a list of stages but this time with the rules of hazards off

• Battlefield/Battlefield Forms
• Final Destination/Omega
• Dream Land
• Green Greens
• Fountain of Dreams
• Yoshi’s Story
• Brinstar
• Pokemon Stadium
• Castle Siege
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Lylat Cruise
• Halberd
• Yoshi’s Island
• Frigate Orpheon
• WarioWare, Inc.
• Smashville
• Prism Tower
• Unova Pokemon League
• Reset Bomb Forest
• Find Mii
• PictoChat 2
• Mushroom Kingdom U
• Town and City
• Kalos Pokemon League
• Skyloft
• Duck Hunt
• Pilotwings
• Wuhu Island
• Wily Castle
• Midgar
• Umbra Clock Tower

Now there is one thong about this and its Stage Striking I believe if Player One strikes Battle Field than Player Two can’t pick Dream Land Yoshi’s Story, or Fountain of Dreams this rule will apply to any stages that are far to similar to one another.





~ENDING~





So with this I’ve said everything I have to say please make sure to share the post, message me, comment, and comment below if something is wrong with the rules or if there is misinformation. Along with that please make sure to share this everywhere you can if its not seen these rules can’t be taken into consideration and with that i’d like to say THANK YOU so much for your time and please have a wonderful day I truly hope you do.





Sincerely Black Ice Gaming~

 

[Idon]

I think the Final Smash Meter (which i’ll now be referring to as FS Meter) should be tried if it is not it may never, if we banned it right away and what to try to later many will be reluctant to and it will be much harder to get people to have a open mind once the rules are finalized. Here are some of the key points about the meter I will explain more after it is listed.

No, it's been tried.
We've seen enough. It's bad, and it has no place in the competitive scene. Every comparison with the FS meter with a super from another game is false equivalency and ignores every nuance in both games that makes it work for fighting games and completely and utterly fail in Smash.

 

[Black_Ice_Gaming]

No, it's been tried.
We've seen enough. It's bad, and it has no place in the competitive scene. Every comparison with the FS meter with a super from another game is false equivalency and ignores every nuance in both games that makes it work for fighting games and completely and utterly fail in Smash.

Oh okay than you for this I've not seen it tired in competitive apart from me and my group.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Oh okay than you for this I've not seen it tired in competitive apart from me and my group.

There was a pre-release invitational event in Spain about...a month ago now, I think, that was 1v1 items off hazardless stages. Final smashes completely dictated the pace of the matches, it was kind of ridiculous to watch.

 

[lordvaati]

Personally I would have been fine with the FS meter if there was a way for it to drain from lack of use/damage akin to Cloud and Little Mac's meters. Also the fact that an FS cannot clash with another one to cause disruption/negation hurts it too.

Really the final nail was from an interview awhile back where Sakurai said that the FS bar was made more for fun and not for serious play. The last time he said this was with custom moves in Sm4sh and we all know how that ended.