Data SSBM Compendium of Knowledge

[Spak]

Also, someone has made a new guide for moonwalking since I posted that moonwalking needed to be added. I think the video does a pretty good job of explaining what a moonwalk is and how to do it. I just realized that moonwalking was in the 2007 edition, but the link with examples is broken.

 

[kingPiano]

What I find interesting about all the info out there about moon-walking is that it's all still quite vague and inefficient. As if it's just one big strain of people copying one person. ^ That video does a bit better of a job explaining.

Most guides just say dash by smashing the stick all the way left or right then down then hold back or semicircle back. They don't even mention how it's much more effective if you just quickly tilt the stick in the direction to start the dash (you don't even have to go but halfway) then you have less distance to move back to the opposite side for the moonwalk. It's also better to not go to the down position and instead go directly diagonal to the 4 or 8 o'clock positions respectively then go fully back and hold so you don't lose momentum (if you start with a dash it's more of a Z). Last, the timing is almost never mentioned. It's different for each character of course but from dash to back you want to be extremely fast (without going through neutral) and then you HAVE to hold back for as long as possible then dash again ASAP and repeat.

If you want to moonwalk right (the initial walk/dash is not necessary for some characters, but it helps):

Walk/Dash right > Dash left - 4 o'clock - hold 3 o'clock -------------------------- Dash left - 4 o'clock - hold 3 o'clock -------------------------- Dash left - 4 o'clock - hold 3 o'clock -------------------------- Dash left - 4 o'clock - hold 3 o'clock -----------------------------

Link is by far the easiest to learn, Falcon is the most pronounced, and Roy's is the swaggiest (but difficult). As all the guides mention it's much easier if you start by walking in the opposite direction the direction you will be moonwalking, you can start with a dash too but it seems to be less efficient.

 

[tauKhan]

@ kingPiano yeah most mw guides are horrible, and going straight lines is the right idea. However, 4 or 8 o'clock are a bit too high, you need to go lower, to the diagonal notches. This is because going through neutral isn't input requirement for smash turn out of dash at all. The turn happens if you make a smash input to the dark blue area in the picture below:

So to avoid turn you need to move the stick into the border area of the smash turn zone for a few frames before moving into the zone, so that the input is not 'smash input' anymore.This is easiest by just aiming at the diagonal notch or a bit below.

As all the guides mention it's much easier if you start by walking in the opposite direction the direction you will be moonwalking, and a dash in lieu of a walk will increase initial moonwalk momentum even more.

Dashing before the moonwalk usually increases the moonwalk initial momentum a lot less than walking, because turn done during dash (and thus dash back, which is turn -> dash) reduces your speed significantly. However smash turn out of walk doesn't reduce the speed same way. Some characters with high dash speed and low walk speed (like falcon) may net more speed from dd moonwalk, but I'm not sure about that, and will need others to confirm / refute (@ schmooblidon ?). Though there's a neat little trick that allows other chars as well to gain significant momentum out of dash for moonwalking: By dashing and releasing the stick, and waiting for the whole dash animation to end, you can do a not momentum canceling dash back after the first dash has completed. I sometimes use this trick to throw my opponent off in neutral, since the dash back is then slower than usual.

Also with many chars wd/wl yields the most momentum to start moonwalk with.

 

[kingPiano]

@ kingPiano yeah most mw guides are horrible, and going straight lines is the right idea. However, 4 or 8 o'clock are a bit too high, you need to go lower, to the diagonal notches. This is because going through neutral isn't input requirement for smash turn out of dash at all. The turn happens if you make a smash input to the dark blue area in the picture below:

So to avoid turn you need to move the stick into the border area of the smash turn zone for a few frames before moving into the zone, so that the input is not 'smash input' anymore.This is easiest by just aiming at the diagonal notch or a bit below.




Dashing before the moonwalk usually increases the moonwalk initial momentum a lot less than walking, because turn done during dash (and thus dash back, which is turn -> dash) reduces your speed significantly. However smash turn out of walk doesn't reduce the speed same way. Some characters with high dash speed and low walk speed (like falcon) may net more speed from dd moonwalk, but I'm not sure about that, and will need others to confirm / refute (@ schmooblidon ?). Though there's a neat little trick that allows other chars as well to gain significant momentum out of dash for moonwalking: By dashing and releasing the stick, and waiting for the whole dash animation to end, you can do a not momentum canceling dash back after the dash has completed. I sometimes use this trick to throw my opponent off in neutral, since the dash back is then slower than usual.

Also with many chars wd/wl yields the most momentum to start moonwalk with.

Yes I figured someone would get specific I didn't feel like saying 4:30 o'clock or 7:30 o'clock. But yes it's important to note, though with just a few seconds of trying it it would be clear to most that going EXACTLY 4 and 8 o'clock would yield mixed results. Thinking of the "semi-circle oblong shape" I find confuses people new to moonwalking, but it is the most precise way to do it.

 

[Stratocaster]

Shout-out to whatever mod gave this a sticky. In honor of that I will try to do some major updating soon. I have so much I want to do...

 

[schmooblidon]

From Dash, the first frame of Smash turn velocity is calculated as: (previousvelocity * 0.25) - traction, and if you are dashing back, that velocity will be repeated on the first frame of dash.

From Walk or Wait (wavedash or superwavedash or something), the first frame of Smash turn velocity is calculated as: previousvelocity - traction OR when previousvelocity is above the character's max walk speed is calculated as: previousvelocity - (2 * traction)

(all those formulas have a minimum of 0 btw)

So using falcon as an example, because he has amazing dash velocity (2.30) and pretty terrible maxwalk velocity (0.85)
From dash, his smashturn velocity is 0.495, from max walk (would have to wavedash beforehand to get it to max) smashturn velocity is 0.770, and from a perfect waveland smashturn velocity is 1.190. So even for falcon, who is a pretty extreme case, it's still better from walk/wavedash.

 

[Kadano]

Dash Frame Data

Data is like so
Character X - Y - Z (W)
X is the number of frames before a dash becomes a run when you hold the control stick over.
Y is the number of frames before you can fox trot.
Z is the total number of frames in the dash animation.
W is the number of frames to complete a wavedash, included for comparison's sake and is always jump start lag + 10
*fox trotting is when you dash the same direction you just dashed after the lag of one dash has almost finished and after the full run input window is over, which seems to be 20 frames across the board.
I'll give a full break-down of your dash options below

Organized by Viability (Tier List)

Fox 11 - 20 - 21 (13)
Falco 11 - 20 - 21 (15)
Sheik 7 - 20 - 21 (13)
Marth 15 - 20 - 27 (14)
Puff 12 - 20 - 23 (15)
Peach 15 - 20 - 21 (15)
C.Falcon 15 - 20 - 28 (14)
ICs 13 - 20 - 21 (13)

Doc 10 - 20 - 21 (14)
Pikachu 13 - 20 - 22 (13)
Samus 8 - 20 - 22 (13)
Ganon 15 - 20 - 28 (16)
Luigi 10 - 20 - 21 (14)
Mario 10 - 20 - 21 (14)

Y.Link 12 - 20 - 30 (14)
Link 12 - 20 - 30 (16)
DK 15 - 20 - 30 (15)
Yoshi 13 - 20 - 26 (15)
Zelda 15 - 20 - 22 (16)
Mewtwo 18 - 20 - 29 (15)
Roy 15 - 20 - 27 (15)
G&W 8 - 17 - 17 (14)

Ness 13 - 20 - 25 (14)
Bowser 13 - 20 - 28 (18)
Kirby 12 - 20 - 23 (13)
Pichu 13 - 20 - 22 (13)

By frames before entering run:
7 - Sheik
8 - Samus, G&W
9
10 - Mario, Luigi, Doc
11 - Fox, Falco
12 - Puff, Y.Link, Link, Kirby
13 - ICs, Pikachu, Yoshi, Ness, Bowser, Pichu
14
15 - Marth, Peach, C.Falcon, Ganon, DK, Zelda, Roy
16
17
18 - Mewtwo

Full Breakdown and how to use this information:
Options available in dash or running positions
During all times dash grab, jump, JC grab, JC Up smash, JC Up B, side B, wavedash, and sheild are available options
Frames 1-3: FSmash is also an available option (either direction! C-stick only for reverse FSmash). However, out out of a dash dance* this is not an option, only the first dash (or fox trot works too). Out of dash dance another dash dance, dash attack, or pivot are additional options.
Frames 4-X: Dash dance, dash attack, or pivot are additional options.
Frames X-Y: Dash dance, dash attack, pivot, enter run are additional options.
Frames Y-Z: Dash dance, dash attack, pivot, fox trot are additional options.
Running: dash attack, crouch**, all B moves, run stop, and run turn are additional options. Those last two are pretty bad options, crouch or wavedash is better.

*Dash dance is just to dash the opposite direction of the last dash.
**technically you move into run stop for at least 1 frame (if you do it right) then crouch.

A good note:
Holding the control stick controls the length of your dash. If you were to hold the control stick for 1 frame vs 15 frames, you will go considerably further when you hold it for 15 frames. However, If you hold it for two long, you will go into your run animation, which you may not want.

An example of using this data:
Say you want to move a fairly short distance and do an ftilt with Sheik, what is the fastest way to get the ftilt out (ignoring what will cover the most distance). Well wavedash will take 13 frames. Well by dashing, entering a run on frame 8, crouching takes 2 more frames, that leaves you with 10 frames until you can start the ftilt. This assumes frame perfection though, and while you can probably get pretty close to this because an instant crouch out of run isn't that hard, the ftilt probably will be. It's a close call but the wavedash is probably easier while the run and crouch method is more ideal.

Slight correction: From Y-Z, dash attack is not an option.

 

[Stratocaster]

Slight correction: From Y-Z, dash attack is not an option.

I assume you're right and corrected my post. Thanks.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

is there any planned update to the compendium for the beginning of 2016?

 

[Stratocaster]

I don't have any particular plans to update it.

 

[The Hunter]

haha "retire from smash". This is impossible!

 

[Salami Mommy]

Not sure if this is known or particularly useful but if you have a character who can use downB to item pull/throw, if they are able to fastfall and press down+B on the same frame they will throw an item at full fastfall speed. Missing by a frame means you will only throw at normal itemthrow falling speed.