SSB64 on VC tournament or not??

[Skrlx]

you might have a point if all your stuff wasn't due to lack of skill

Do we have another pessimistic hypocrite like Lovage? What happened to your firm believe in not judging skill based on online play? Console is where the true skill shows, right?

I also really don't see how the gamecube controllers suck for shielding. I've never once heard a single complaint from Melee to Brawl players about the gamecube triggers not working well for perfect or otherwise shielding.

That's the thing, people who already DO play smash 64 via emulator or console are not used to using those type of shoulder pads for shielding. SSB64 doesn't utilize the sensitivity feature on those shoulder pads. I'm not sure where you got that information from that melee and brawl players don't have a problem with it. They might not have a problem exactly but they'll be surprised to find that there's no sensitivity.

But I bet you I can play Smash 64 wii for a good month and go back to the 64 version and play no differently

That's not the issue, mike. <_<
The issue is playing smash 64 with a gamecube controller and then trying to play Brawl or Melee with the same controller. I'm not talking about being COMPLETELY disorientated, but you will notice your game is a bit off in Melee or Brawl if you dedicate time to smash 64 with that same controller you use to play Melee or Brawl.


Brawl and Melee players can use the gamecube controllers if they like, all I'm saying is that I'll be using a n64 controller to play in VC.

 

[MiketheMike]

meh, i didnt bother reading anyways. just thought id share the experience =]

 

[Deleted member]

i dont see where i am being hypocritical and very impressive to memorize and keep to heart what I said like 3 months ago

im pretty sure its you who is being hypocritical since in your hax DI days you hacked your deadzone on a GAMECUBE controller to play 64 online

Also, with enough repetition you can easily adjust, rather than just complain like a noob and give up you can just play and adapt. You might be a little off when you switch between games.. for the first 10-20 minutes, maybe an hour at worst. Switching between games on the same controller won't completely **** up your muscle memory irreparably that you suddenly are unable to play melee ever again unless you are some weird dude

 

[ETWIST51294]

I actually do better switching from brawl/64 to melee.

I feel like the games fresh therefore I'm not bored therefore my techskill is better.:D But I'm weird I guess...

 

[SheerMadness]

Only thing that sucks bout ssb64 on a gamecube controller is l-canceling. I'm used to doing it twice real quick on the ssb64 controller but I'm used to doing it once for melee, which I've played competitive for 4 years. So I usually only L-cancel once on ssb64 cube controllers and miss a lot of l-cancels.

 

[Wenbobular]

I used a USB Gamecube adapter at one point...my only major gripe was it just wasn't suited for double lasering.
That, and it took so long to configure because the stupid shoulder buttons kept registering for every input I did.

 

[Fireblaster]

I also really don't see how the gamecube controllers suck for shielding. I've never once heard a single complaint from Melee to Brawl players about the gamecube triggers not working well for perfect or otherwise shielding.

It's not about the shielding, it's about everything else (The l-cancelling and teching). If I want to keep doing several short hop aerials constantly I can't just tap the shield button like I do on the n64 controller. Instead I have to ram the thing all the way down and let it go up all the way before my shielding animation even comes up for one frame. For Melee it's acceptable because L-cancelling doesn't take away all lag in melee and there is more leeway. Brawl is just stupid, don't ever mention it in an discussion about smash. It practically doesn't even count as a smash game.

 

[CRASHiC]

That's the thing, people who already DO play smash 64 via emulator or console are not used to using those type of shoulder pads for shielding. SSB64 doesn't utilize the sensitivity feature on those shoulder pads. I'm not sure where you got that information from that melee and brawl players don't have a problem with it. They might not have a problem exactly but they'll be surprised to find that there's no sensitivity.

Brawl doesn't have sensitivity either. There is no light shielding or anything of the sort.

If I want to keep doing several short hop aerials constantly I can't just tap the shield button like I do on the n64 controller. Instead I have to ram the thing all the way down and let it go up all the way before my shielding animation even comes up for one frame. For Melee it's acceptable because L-cancelling doesn't take away all lag in melee and there is more leeway.

After L canceling, Fox has about 2 frames on one of his aerials, that's 2 frames compared to 0 in smash 64. Its doable.

 

[SheerMadness]

It's a lot harder to parry with a gamecube controller too.

 

[Fireblaster]

Brawl doesn't have sensitivity either. There is no light shielding or anything of the sort.

Except brawl has no L-Cancelling of any form.

After L canceling, Fox has about 2 frames on one of his aerials, that's 2 frames compared to 0 in smash 64. Its doable.

You act like 2 frames is nothing.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I like Fireblaster for some reason...

 

[Skrlx]

i dont see where i am being hypocritical and very impressive to memorize and keep to heart what I said like 3 months ago

im pretty sure its you who is being hypocritical since in your hax DI days you hacked your deadzone on a GAMECUBE controller to play 64 online

Also, with enough repetition you can easily adjust, rather than just complain like a noob and give up you can just play and adapt. You might be a little off when you switch between games.. for the first 10-20 minutes, maybe an hour at worst. Switching between games on the same controller won't completely **** up your muscle memory irreparably that you suddenly are unable to play melee ever again unless you are some weird dude

your hax di argument would work if we were talking about DI issues, sadly, we're not.

also didn't you read?

I'm not talking about being COMPLETELY disorientated, but you will notice your game is a bit off in Melee or Brawl if you dedicate time to smash 64 with that same controller you use to play Melee or Brawl.

I'm not saying you're going to completely forget melee. You must not be good at smash in the first place if that happens.

Brawl doesn't have sensitivity either. There is no light shielding or anything of the sort.

I'm not really focusing on Brawl that much. You might have a point, though.

Anyways, I'm done arguing.

 

[DMoogle]

Hmmm, I wonder how big the difference would be if I DIed with a GC controller in SSB the same way I DI with the N64 controller.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

It's not about the shielding, it's about everything else (The l-cancelling and teching). If I want to keep doing several short hop aerials constantly I can't just tap the shield button like I do on the n64 controller. Instead I have to ram the thing all the way down and let it go up all the way before my shielding animation even comes up for one frame.

just take the springs out of the shoulder buttons, thats what i always do and it works wonders.


The GCN controler does take time to get used to but it works fine after a while.

 

[MiketheMike]

just take the springs out of the shoulder buttons, thats what i always do and it works wonders.


The GCN controler does take time to get used to but it works fine after a while.

agreed. and the picture and graphics are much much smoother! (was that mentioned earlier? im not reading any of this

 

[CRASHiC]

Except brawl has no L-Cancelling of any form.

There are hacks for it and no such complaints.

You act like 2 frames is nothing.

2 Frames in Melee is NOT enough to make a difference. It takes 6 frames to even register a thought. Things that are around the area of 2 frames are considered inhumanly possible to a large extent, see the theoretical Fox shine infinite and nearly everything in the technical assist Melee videos.

 

[Frogles]

There are hacks for it and no such complaints.

who the hell even uses l-cancel hacks? >_>

2 Frames in Melee is NOT enough to make a difference. It takes 6 frames to even register a thought. Things that are around the area of 2 frames are considered inhumanly possible to a large extent, see the theoretical Fox shine infinite and nearly everything in the technical assist Melee videos.

lol 2 frames is huge in every competitive game. things like blocking at the last moment and getting in your hit right before the opponent will be thrown off by any frame delay. a block at 0 frames can save you from something a block at 2 frames wont. these situations will always come up in fighters.

and how about powershielding in melee? ~_~

 

[CRASHiC]

If you can do something in 2 frames you can do it in 0. The separation between the two is not large enough to make a difference here. It is litter ally beyond the human mental range of even noticing the difference. My point was not its effects to gameplay but its effects on human precision and execution.

 

[Fireblaster]

There are hacks for it and no such complaints.

Then we're not talking about brawl anymore.

2 Frames in Melee is NOT enough to make a difference. It takes 6 frames to even register a thought. Things that are around the area of 2 frames are considered inhumanly possible to a large extent, see the theoretical Fox shine infinite and nearly everything in the technical assist Melee videos.

You're just talking out of your *** and using dumb examples. Fox's shine infinite isn't humanly impossible because it takes precise timing, it's due to the speed at which you must rapid fire.

If you can do something in 2 frames you can do it in 0. The separation between the two is not large enough to make a difference here. It is litter ally beyond the human mental range of even noticing the difference. My point was not its effects to gameplay but its effects on human precision and execution.

Boy, you sure do love making up crap that isn't true just to keep an argument going huh? Explain to me how any good ssb player will EASILY tell the difference between 2 to 3 frames of input delay, 3 to 4, 4 to 5, etc. I have a friend who is really good at MvC2 and goes to tournaments and he refuses to play on even slightly laggy HDTV's because just 1 frame of input delay can screw you up in that game.

You sound just like the douchebags that run around claiming "The human eye can't see higher than 24/30/40/60 frames per second so having higher fps than that is pointless HURR DURR"

 

[CRASHiC]

Then we're not talking about brawl anymore.

No but we are talking about playing a game with l canceling on the gamecube controller when it doesn't register the sensitive inputs.

You're just talking out of your *** and using dumb examples. Fox's shine infinite isn't humanly impossible because it takes precise timing, it's due to the speed at which you must rapid fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG1DLooq3Pc
at 0:28 we see something that is humanly impossible not because of the frames but because of the timing. Its amazing enough that Phanna can consistently do the super wave dash, but even this amount of timing is beyound his reach. There are MANY other examples within the video of humanly impossible timing.

Question: have you actually played the virtual consol release of this game? Have you given it time for you to learn the game on the gamecube controller? Or are you just

You're just talking out of your ***

Boy, you sure do love making up crap that isn't true just to keep an argument going huh? Explain to me how any good ssb player will EASILY tell the difference between 2 to 3 frames of input delay, 3 to 4, 4 to 5, etc. I have a friend who is really good at MvC2 and goes to tournaments and he refuses to play on even slightly laggy HDTV's because just 1 frame of input delay can screw you up in that game.

You sound just like the douchebags that run around claiming "The human eye can't see higher than 24/30/40/60 frames per second so having higher fps than that is pointless HURR DURR"

No inputs in this game are anything like Marvel Versus Capcom 2. The amount of timing and frame control and reflexes in MvC2 is far beyond any game.
Now, the way people can preform such things is they step beyond thought and go straight to muscle memory. The bypass several thought processes, similar to an atheliet or a musician of high technical caliber. My point that if you can preform a .1 second command you can preform a .09 second (or however many it is) second command just fine with the same equipment.

And no, there is no point of making a game beyound 60 frames per second because we can't see that. Its like painting with invisible paint.

 

[SheerMadness]

It takes 6 frames to even register a thought. Things that are around the area of 2 frames are considered inhumanly possible to a large extent, see the theoretical Fox shine infinite and nearly everything in the technical assist Melee videos.

Gotta disagree with you here man. Parrying in ssb64 has a 4 frame window. You have to input the parry up to 3 frames before being hit or the exact frame you get hit. If it takes 6 frames to even register a thought how could I parry pritty much any move I want fairly consistently, like I have been doing the past 2-3 years?

Long time online ssb64 are much better with distinguishing between very small frame windows than melee players, on average. And I'm not being biased, because I've played both games competitively for 4+ years. But online ssb64 players have been dealing with very small frame delay differences for so long that its really not very hard at all to notice the difference between, say, 2 frames and 4 frames.

But I do agree with you that cube controllers can be perfectly viable for competitive ssb64. Local smashers have had ssb64 hacked on to their Wii for a year now so I've had plenty of experience with ssb64 and cube controller. My only problems with it are missed L-cancels and parrying. But I'm sure If I practiced enough with it I'd get used to the timing for both.

 

[Fireblaster]

No but we are talking about playing a game with l canceling on the gamecube controller when it doesn't register the sensitive inputs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG1DLooq3Pc
at 0:28 we see something that is humanly impossible not because of the frames but because of the timing. Its amazing enough that Phanna can consistently do the super wave dash, but even this amount of timing is beyound his reach. There are MANY other examples within the video of humanly impossible timing.

Stop using horrible logic. Super wavedashing like that requires pressing the joystick in several directions really fast, and that's the reason it's so hard. It's like saying mustaches make you do evil things just because Stalin and Hitler both had mustaches. Players can be really amazing at timing and you're just hideously underestimating how limiting non-digital button control inputs can be.

Question: have you actually played the virtual consol release of this game? Have you given it time for you to learn the game on the gamecube controller? Or are you just

Nah, I just like to argue this long against random people for the lulz. Nothing better to do than to waste my time trying to employ logic on random strangers on a gaming forum, right?

No inputs in this game are anything like Marvel Versus Capcom 2. The amount of timing and frame control and reflexes in MvC2 is far beyond any game.
Now, the way people can preform such things is they step beyond thought and go straight to muscle memory. The bypass several thought processes, similar to an atheliet or a musician of high technical caliber. My point that if you can preform a .1 second command you can preform a .09 second (or however many it is) second command just fine with the same equipment.

You also seem to ignore that they use, I dunno, entirely DIFFERENT CONTROL TYPES that allow for the HUGE difference in control skill? MvC2 players use fight sticks which consists of digital sticks and digital buttons which allow for the most accurate control input any human can get for a 2d fighter in which a person can go from any input to the next without a problem. The Gamecube controller is riddled with a joystick that requires 2 fingers in an awkward holding position to be used with any actual fast speed, analog shield buttons that are used as digital buttons by being pressed all the way in, and has 3 different commands on the face buttons which require another awkward holding position if you want to rapidly switch between B moves and jumping.

Gamecube controllers is made for a lot of things. Being technical and accurate isn't one of them.

And no, there is no point of making a game beyound 60 frames per second because we can't see that. Its like painting with invisible paint.

I ****ing knew it, you ARE one of those people. I'll ask you nicely this time, please stop posting and spreading false information. The human eye can detect the difference between 60 FPS and anything higher, some people can even tell the difference up to 200 FPS. I have no idea where you ****ers got the idea that "Human eyes can't see past 60 FPS" crap, I really don't. You have no proof or basis for your stupid claims.

 

[Alphicans]

Crashic is right, it's inhuman to react less than .1 of a second, that's why there are re-dos in track and field races because they time how fast everyone reacts to the gun fire, and if it's under .1 seconds it was a lucky start, and they PREDICTED when the gun was going to fire.

Key word is predicted, and that is what Crashic is missing here. The reason you guys can do these inhuman things (based on reaction time) is because you're predicting things before they happen. There is no way you can react in 2 frames, it's humanly impossible, but it's possible to predict these things.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Continue .

 

[Deleted member]

2 frames (1/30 second delay) in any competitive game will eventually ultimately result in something happening that wouldn't have occurred if instead it was at 0 frames

especially in games such as ssb64 where tiny ****up leads to potential 0 to death combo, and playing this game for 3 years, there are many situations for both me and my opponent where if the delay was just 2 frames shorter we wouldn't have gotten hit/*****

 

[dandan]

Crashic is right, it's inhuman to react less than .1 of a second, that's why there are re-dos in track and field races because they time how fast everyone reacts to the gun fire, and if it's under .1 seconds it was a lucky start, and they PREDICTED when the gun was going to fire.

Key word is predicted, and that is what Crashic is missing here. The reason you guys can do these inhuman things (based on reaction time) is because you're predicting things before they happen. There is no way you can react in 2 frames, it's humanly impossible, but it's possible to predict these things.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Continue .

if i am not mistaken, the human reaction time is about 0.075 seconds.
but yes, you are right, predictions are used, and as such, frame delay really hampers play,
as you need not only consider your predictions, but also add the fact that your moves will occur later then normally.
or so i believe.

 

[XxHennersXx]

I got Smash 64 on my VC today. It looks AMAZING, it's so sharp now. However my L cancels are missing THOUGH you can use Z to L cancel and since it's a digital button instead of analog like L and R the timing is the same.

 

[Superstar]

The only reason we can't see 60FPS is because most monitors are capped at 60Hzs. I kicked up my monitor to 75hz and I sure as hell can tell the difference between that and 60.

64 feels comfy with a GCN controller...but that's probably because its a step up from the 360 controller. Either way, you can remove the springs to make it work well, but it doesn't stop the placement of b being far from jump. Though I think even Melee players also need to deal with that?

 

[Deleted member]

To those that have the VC n64 ssb


does it lag with 4 players?

 

[malva00]

Just finished playing it on the VC n64 controller is the best

 

[Deleted member]

The verdict of n64 VC (thanks to malva00)

It's the best version if you have a gamecube to n64 adapter

pros:
no lag in 4 player
better graphics

cons:
gamecube controller kinda sucks
some gameplay elements seem to be different (onix's rocks deflect diagonally off shield)

 

[Frogles]

cons:
some gameplay elements seem to be different (onix's rocks deflect diagonally off shield)

if thats true then you're better off getting an ssb64 injected wad. it uses the original rom.

 

[Wal-Marth]

The heck!? Onix? But as long as Mew is still a OHK I dont care much.