SSB4: Smash Ball Tourney Legal? Poll & Discuss

[byebye]

As we all know, Nintendo just hosted a National Tourney that allows Smash Ball only item on one part of the tournament.
What do you think about that rule?

We can discuss here the pros and cons of allowing Smash Balls.

Cons:
- Smash Balls spawn on random times and random locations
- It tilts the balance (gives advantage characters who are fast / jump high / float / have aerial superiority and who has good Final Smahses)
- It is a strong comeback mechanic

Pros:
- It promotes play styles or characters who leans to be aggressive / offensive compared to being passive / campy
- It adds depth to the mid games, whether you can go for the smash ball or go for the opponent who is going for the smash ball
- It spices up the action, as neutral game suddenly changes and the situation becomes up tempo
- speeds up the game time for stock type games

For me, I think Smash Balls are good as a viewer since whenever a smash ball pops out, suddenly, things are more interesting to watch.

Thoughts?

Edit: Subject is copy-pasted from the Custom moves thread just to be consistent. Thanks to negativesteve for that.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

There's a reason the Smash Ball, and no items for that matter, have not been used in tournaments before. You touch base on it pretty well - faster characters who can navigate the map better will get a larger percentage of smash balls, an item which almost guarantees a stock advantage if used properly with any character. Certainly, it will be more interesting, but the loss in viability of characters that can't keep pace will likely result in less variety in matchups.

 

[byebye]

There's a reason the Smash Ball, and no items for that matter, have not been used in tournaments before. You touch base on it pretty well - faster characters who can navigate the map better will get a larger percentage of smash balls, an item which almost guarantees a stock advantage if used properly with any character. Certainly, it will be more interesting, but the loss in viability of characters that can't keep pace will likely result in less variety in matchups.

I agree with that point, though it's just another layer of match up variations.
If you look at it. Stage selection has a similar effect.
Some characters are strong in some stages over others. and that tilts the character balance similar to how smash ball affects them.

given that, it also affects smash balls in a way.
in FD, flying characters have an advantage in hitting the ball, but on Battlefield that has platforms, that advantages is lessened / negated.

 

[Problem2]

Smash Balls are so much more powerful than what your character is normally capable of, it quickly warps the meta around it. Having a good final smash and having a good way to break the smash ball are hugely important traits that out class footsies, edge guarding, kill sets... basically the entire rest of the game. Just watch that old set of Ken vs CPU from Evo 2008. For this reason, I don't even like Smash Balls on when playing with items on.

 

[Mikkelmann]

it should be allowed so when it happens every body can yell

when it happens

 

[Metarai]

I don't think it should be allowed, some character's final smashes are much powerful than others.

I agree with that point, though it's just another layer of match up variations.
If you look at it. Stage selection has a similar effect.
Some characters are strong in some stages over others. and that tilts the character balance similar to how smash ball affects them.

given that, it also affects smash balls in a way.
in FD, flying characters have an advantage in hitting the ball, but on Battlefield that has platforms, that advantages is lessened / negated.

Also, you can counterpick stages, but you can't counterpick final smashes.

 

[byebye]

Smash Balls are so much more powerful than what your character is normally capable of, it quickly warps the meta around it. Having a good final smash and having a good way to break the smash ball are hugely important traits that out class footsies, edge guarding, kill sets... basically the entire rest of the game. Just watch that old set of Ken vs CPU from Evo 2008. For this reason, I don't even like Smash Balls on when playing with items on.

I agree that the meta will change, but I wouldn't say that the capability to smash the smash ball out classes footsies, edge guarding etc.

I have been experimenting on it.
2 stocks, 3 minute matches. sometimes no smash balls appear, and at max, only 1 appear.

it is rare enough that if we are to pit 2 players.
1 using a character with a good way to break the smash ball
vs
1 using a character with good moveset for footsies and edge guarding.
the footsies and edge guarding will win.

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the game intensifies more as more options are being included in the decision making and reading.

when the ball appears
- how many stocks do we have left?
- how much percentage left?
- where is the ball?
- will my opponent go for the ball?
- will I go for the ball?
- will I go for the opponent going for the ball?
- should I out space the opponent so if I'm safe, I can go for the ball?
- is my opponent waiting for me to go for the ball and punish me for it?
- will I let my opponent attack the ball, then I'll wait to attack it for the last hit?

if you get the ball
- will I use it asap?
- will I continue to play as normal, and put pressure to my opponent to think that I'm going to use the ball anytime soon?
- how can use / setup the final smash so that I won't whiff?

if the opponent got the ball
- will I fight defensively to fish for a final smash whiff?
- will I fight aggressively, to try and bump the ball out?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

In a 4 stock match I could see it given the length of the match.
Otherwise it would have too large an impact.

 

[S2]

I'm not a huge fan given the lack of balance around Smash balls.

Official tournaments probably will always feature them since they're flashy. It's a big attack that looks cool to the casual spectator.

I love the concept of super moves, I just don't like the balance and how the smash ball works.

 

[Thinkaman]

Smash Balls are a bit of a Golden Snitch; their timing and behavior is largely random, and makes most the other gameplay totally irrelevant.

 

[byebye]

Now that the Smash Wii U live stream is done. We have another setting that can make this a bit more viable.
The item frequency setting.

Smash ball -> set to rarely

This will lessen the effect on balance, but still retains its PROS. which is to promote not to play campy / defensively.

It adds that good wrinkle in the matches' mind games, and it adds excitement for the viewers to.

 

[pidgezero_one]

could you imagine if this was a thing in brawl?

literally every match sanic dittos

 

[Alex Strife]

no way to run a tournament is wrong as long as you have fun.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

could you imagine if this was a thing in brawl?

literally every match sanic dittos

Was Sonic's smash something hard to deal with? I don't know if it was just the level of the people I play with, but it felt like roll dodging was enough to keep you from taking any damage from him and Pikachu.

 

[Metarai]

Was Sonic's smash something hard to deal with? I don't know if it was just the level of the people I play with, but it felt like roll dodging was enough to keep you from taking any damage from him and Pikachu.

Roll dodging works if the sonic is only decent at using his or her final smash since they will only go back and forth. However, a sonic who really knows what they are doing will follow you to the blast zone, leading to very fast kills.