SSB4 Kill Throws

[Darches]

I couldn't find a list anywhere, so I made one. Characters are ordered by best throw power. There are some random side notes...

All throws were tested against Mario in Final Destination training, default spawn (3DS version). Percents are accurate within 5%. I only included relevant throws (tell me if I missed any). Note that up throws (and some special moves) work at full power anywhere and are more effective against light characters.

Kill ranges vary depending on grab distance, position, rage, aura, etc., so this is only a general guide to approximate throw power. Front throws and throws with poor scaling perform better at the very edge.

Remember to pummel! It's good for the soul.

What did we learn?
The GOOD heavies have kill throws.
Angry Lucario could be lethal.
Ness is still stupid.
Toon Link > Link.
Bowser and Charizard have the best reliable kill throws.
Olimar, Kirby, and R.O.B. have good up throws, while Wario and (Dark) Pit have good forward throws.
Ganondorf's Flame Choke can be hard to land and requires a read so it's not super amazing.
Broken characters don't need kill throws.
I don't support pay2win DLC, which is why I only have Roy's throws.

Aggressive players who hate shields should consider kill throws when choosing a main.

DLC: Since version 1.1.5, Ganondorf's sideb (Flame Choke) beats MANY of Bowser's options now and works as a 50/50 where Bowser's only option is to tech backwards. This means Ganon is a great matchup against Bowser. You can also edgeguard easily and do crazy combos like usmash/dthrow -> nair. I may be wrong, but a slick Ganondorf may be able to read a backwards sideb tech and punish with a dair -> aerial to deal unholy damage.

 

[arbustopachon]

Zard's u-throw gets destroyed by good di, it ends up killing later than M2s and Lucas.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Did you forget about Corrin?

 

[Nah]

Did you forget about Corrin?

He specifically ignored all DLC characters (except for Roy for some reason) because he's salty about them.

But for those wondering about Corrin kill throw percentages:

Uthrow DI in: 151%
Uthrow DI away: 156%

Dthrow DI in: 147%
Dthrow DI away: 175%

No DI is 151% and 157%, respectively. They were tested on Pit but he's like 2 units lighter than Mario so it's close enough.

 

[Darches]

I don't support pay2win, period. It's too bad, because I really wanted to play with Cloud. I mean, just look at my avatar. I had a taste of Cloud on a friend's Wii U, and he's as OP as I expected.

I got Roy because I had some extra money on my eShop account... Before the DLC was OP.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Zard's u-throw gets destroyed by good di, it ends up killing later than M2s and Lucas.

It's platform dependant but yeah all of this.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I don't support pay2win, period. It's too bad, because I really wanted to play with Cloud. I mean, just look at my avatar. I had a taste of Cloud on a friend's Wii U, and he's as OP as I expected.

I got Roy because I had some extra money on my eShop account... Before the DLC was OP.

How is Corrin pay to win when Marth and Diddy Kong are included from the start? Or Lucas, for that matter.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Lucario also can kill with UThrow iirc if he and a midweight are around 150%. At high Aura FThrow can kill at the edge, but I forgot the percents.

If you don't get DLC characters you will miss on potential exp and solo labbing will always be incomplete.

 

[Luigi player]

I'm guessing this is without DI, which will effect vertical KOs a bit depending on the angle the move hits (for some DI seems to help more? and for some others you can DI to make the angle you're launched at <~67° [example for the right side] so you're able to vector downwards).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm guessing this is without DI, which will effect vertical KOs a bit depending on the angle the move hits (for some DI seems to help more? and for some others you can DI to make the angle you're launched at <~67° [example for the right side] so you're able to vector downwards).

Looking at the percents most is without.

 

[L9999]

I don't support pay2win, period. It's too bad, because I really wanted to play with Cloud. I mean, just look at my avatar. I had a taste of Cloud on a friend's Wii U, and he's as OP as I expected.

I got Roy because I had some extra money on my eShop account... Before the DLC was OP.

If you are going to make a chart of best kill throws you need to include EVERY character you like it or not. Lucas, Mewtwo, Corrin, Roy, and Bayonetta have kill throws, whether they are DLC or not, they exist, and nothing you think will change it. Please don't be childish. If you wanted to play Cloud play him. If your friends are actually friends they will gitgud to beat you and keep things respectful. Before I entered college I wiped the floor with all of my friends with Ness and Lucina. Now they make me sweat because they grinded a lot. One of them made me sweat with freaking Pac-Man. Another thing, DLC is payed. Would you like to buy a character that sucks shoes? Of course not. I wouldn't because DLC in Mexico costs a lot. When Mewtwo was released he was low tier and no one liked him except Japanese players.

 

[Alpha Princess365]

Wow. It's pretty interesting how most characters have low powered (or no) kill throws at all. However if this were a set of the best. Mewtwo, Corrin and Bayonetta would defiantly be within the top. It's really sad Jiggs doesn't even have a kill throw.

 

[|RK|]

If you are going to make a chart of best kill throws you need to include EVERY character you like it or not. Lucas, Mewtwo, Corrin, Roy, and Bayonetta have kill throws, whether they are DLC or not, they exist, and nothing you think will change it. Please don't be childish. If you wanted to play Cloud play him. If your friends are actually friends they will gitgud to beat you and keep things respectful. Before I entered college I wiped the floor with all of my friends with Ness and Lucina. Now they make me sweat because they grinded a lot. One of them made me sweat with freaking Pac-Man. Another thing, DLC is payed. Would you like to buy a character that sucks shoes? Of course not. I wouldn't because DLC in Mexico costs a lot. When Mewtwo was released he was low tier and no one liked him except Japanese players.

I agree calling DLC "pay2win" is childish... But I will always be reluctant to call Bayonetta's fthrow a kill throw.

Ah, but I guess it starts being okay with rage involved.

 

[Rizen]

Does the 3DS have huge blast zones? I tried Link at 0% Uthrowing Mario, set to "control" on training mode, center of FD, Wii U version, and he died at 164%. It should be noted that Toon Link's kill throw is a Bthrow while Link's is a 90 degree Uthrow. At the edge TL's kills earlier but it can be DIed more and becomes less effective in other positions. Link's works anywhere. So it's not as simple as TL>Link's, although TL does have more power and earlier kill potential.

 

[arbustopachon]

Ds does have bigger blastzones, everything kills like 10% to 20% later.

 

[Delzethin]

Worth mentioning that Robin's bthrow becomes a lot more potent at the ledge, since it sends opponents toward the side blastzone instead of off the top. At the ledge, it kills around...I want to say 135 without rage?

I think it's also worth including kill confirms from throws as well. They lead to a kill from the same part of the weapon triangle, so to speak, so anyone looking out for a kill throw would also need to be aware of them.

 

[A Scrub]

I don't support pay2win DLC.

Kind of hard to take this seriously at all with a comment like that. That is seriously scrubby.

And the format of the document seems convoluted and difficult to read.

 

[Crystanium]

So, technically, Ness has the best back throw because he doesn't rely on aura.

I wish Samus would have kill throws. She is superhuman, after all, and she's wearing powered armor that amplifies her strength.

 

[Masonomace]

For the sake of additional thought put into the grab to get said throw, I probably would of added Shulk (Speed) throws from a standing position, but then make a note of, "This character's distance traveled during a pivot grab is ridiculous." That way when you see a kill percent for that test you'll know that it's at least going to be ~5% earlier with sliding pivot distance you travel. Even if the art reduces your damage thus reduces the overall knockback, that pivot slide makes up for it.

Otherwise yeah, this is kinda neat. Nowadays people like to mixup DI so that they can get a different throw to likely kill with, kinda like Bayo's doing Dthrow instead of Fthrow at ledge.

 

[Poisonous]

I'm curious how you got Bowser's Fthrow to kill at 145-150 and Wario's Fthrow to kill at 165.

Bowser's Fthrow:
Base damage: 12%
Angle: 45*
BKB: 60
KBG: 66

Wario's Fthrow:
Base damage: 12%
Angle: 45*
BKB: 60
KBG: 65

A 1* difference in KBG does not equal a 15-20% difference in kill power, I'm not sure how much I trust this document.

 

[MERPIS]

>Pops into thread to see what exact percent Mewtwo's throw's kil at
>Ignoring all DLC

This is incomplete without the DLC as people who have DLC mains are left in the dust here if they want to know the exact percent their throws actually kill at. No one cares if you hate DLC, you have to include them anyways because they are characters after all.

 

[Masonomace]

Honestly I'd be down to lab kill throws on Wii U. DI & no DI included, & DI mix-up (the time when you guess the other throws in mistake for being conditioned, thus dying earlier to said throw.)

 

[FamilyTeam]

Ds does have bigger blastzones, everything kills like 10% to 20% later.

Since this thread has been long bumped already, I guess I'll participate.
Yes, 3DS blastzones are way larger and there is no way to downplay that. On stages like Battlefield and FD (where the difference is most noticeable) I'd say it's closer to 20% later than it's 10%.
I legit did not know Dancing Blade and Up Tilt with Lucina were even supposed to be kill moves because I started on 3DS. There's also the fact that I FSmashed a Villager at 85% near the ledge once with Rage 2 FSmash and he survived (FD), and I once FSmashed default Shulk at the end of his room from ledge at 115% and he also miraculously survived (also FD)
Keep in mind that on Wii U, Lucina's FSmash starts killing heavyweights midstage at 115. You can't say the move was stale either since I'm one of the Lucinas lightest on FSmash usage around.


Relating this to the thread and the OP: This does change KO percent for throws significantly. Was it ever specificed which platform was this on? Which stage? Against which character? Looking at those percents, I'm tempted to say "Wii U", "Final Destionation" and "Mario".
In Science, experiments are only truly validated if they can be properly reproduced. Because of that, you need to make whatever you test as accurate and detailed as possible in every front, and this is sort of neither.

I wonder if I should even comment on your mentality towards DLC also. 7 DLC characters. 2 of them are blessed to be Top Tiers, 3 of them are high tiers, and 2 are mid tiers. Diddy is one of the characters that has the most majors under his belt and he's in the base game. I don't think you know what P2W really is. I still remember the days where every single DLC character released went through the same cycle of being considered Top 10 near launch, and then shoved near Bottom Tier for months before people started being reasonable towards them, and a lot of us thought the DLCs were just doomed to suck. Ryu kinda slowed down this trend and Cloud (to some extent Corrin too) went through kind of the opposite, were people thought they were okay Mid Tiers before they found out their stuff.
If you want P2W, you should play mobile games. Fire Emblem Heroes is P2W through and through unless you get extremely lucky, and that's one of the games of that type that's not as P2W as most others.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I'm curious how you got Bowser's Fthrow to kill at 145-150 and Wario's Fthrow to kill at 165.

Bowser's Fthrow:
Base damage: 12%
Angle: 45*
BKB: 60
KBG: 66

Wario's Fthrow:
Base damage: 12%
Angle: 45*
BKB: 60
KBG: 65

A 1* difference in KBG does not equal a 15-20% difference in kill power, I'm not sure how much I trust this document.

It's not the most accurate one.
In the doc, Marth/Lucina's Up-Throw are listed as 180%, while Roy's Up-Throw is at 185%.

Marcina's:

Base Dmg: 4
Angle: 93
BKB: 70
KBG: 120

Roy's:

Base Dmg: 6
Angle: 97
BKB: 60
KBG: 100


Now that's a 15% difference.

 

[MERPIS]

2 of them are blessed to be Top Tiers

Mewtwo bayo cloud. Guy I count 3.