SSB Mod Project- Programming Oriantation welcomed!

[Alphalink]

Hey there!

I recently joined this forums, and now its bursting with enthusiasm as we try to do something never done before, mod Super Smash Bros. For now we have few people helping out with the game, but my ultimate goal is to be able to add characters, stages and items to the SSB ROMs.

Up till now the team is:

Alphalink:
Creator, programmer, 3D modeling, animation, texturing, etc.

Mask man:
researcher, ROM decoder

BHLMRO:
Texturing


I am in the process of learning C++. Its not that hard, but it'll be a while until I possess the skills needed to make a Modding application for SSB.

 

[Alphalink]

STATUS

Learning to Program

About Project

We are doing this for the love of Smash and our goal of expanding SSB!

TEXTURES

I'm also making textures for current characters so they look different. I will release them in packs, so after I am done with a few I'll post them.

Heres a picture of the first one I made (Thanks to Mask man for tech info)

 

[mask man]

i was thinking the same thing...im going to try using the sm64 ROM extender and see if it works with smash bros.


EDIT:

ermmmm the extender is screwing up.....lol
can someone else try this xD

also i have yet to find a good ROM dissasembler or hex editer.
i think we should use a hex editer instead though becouse dissasembling the ROM is to **** confusing

oh and i think my idea that the parts of stages have a value that says what the platfrom is,like the objects in m64 are,has a higher chance of being true becouse of how there are multiples of some platforms,(the 3 in dreamland,other 3 in battleground,the main platforms in the betas and dreamland,three in hyrule ect.)

 

[Alphalink]

keep trying to understand the code, if we achieve this, our next step is how to add to it.

 

[mask man]

erm,remember the gibberish from the text document?it doesnt have anything to do with the rom data.
we have yet to find the rom data,besides with some rom dissasemblers that dont make ANY sence.i think we should try a hex editer.

 

[Alphalink]

i dont even now what a hex editor is...

i dont even now what a hex is in ROM data...

 

[mask man]

ermmmmmmmm
you know how to count right?
in our way there are 10 digits, 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

in hex there are 16 digits

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F

cant realy explain that much...search hexadecmil on google

 

[Lanowen]

I've tried to edit ssb ROM data, I haven't found any way to do it using apps that can be found on the net.

Someone would probably have to do something totally new.

 

[mask man]

ya thats kinda what were trying,once you think of it,its not realy the similer to toads tool.
and i already have a few ideas on finding the polygon data,we just need a hex editer.

 

[180OP]

keep trying to understand the code, if we achieve this, our next step is how to add to it.

Can someone provide me/us to the links to the tools to show the code?

I've done a quite some programming and want to see if I can help in this project.

I got a hex editor from crack22.net I believe. Very difficult to read at least for me.

 

[mask man]

180Op he wastalking about a thing in a text document i im sure isnt the code...
sorry to have misled you,you have yet to find the code.

but its possible that its in there in the strange document thing...but i doubt it.
if you would like to exparement though just right click your ssb ROM go to open with and then find microsoft word.

 

[Alphalink]

found a helpful faq from non other than Wikipedia!



helps me understand how to do this a bit better

 

[Thino]

you can also ask for tip there : http://acmlm.no-ip.org/board/forum.php?id=19
I think some can help

 

[okaygo]

I lol'ed at the picture where you posted a ROM file opened inside of word, and said... I'm looking for the functions.

If your really wanting to edit the ROM, I suggest you start documenting it. I know a lot of values regarding gameplay can be found in the memory, hit boxes, damage, frame length, shield size, I'm sure there is a lot more.

The next thing you might want to do is start playing around with a hex editor, and trying to patch some memory addresses found inside the ROM.

You might want to look into how HAL creates there games, and where you could start reversing the protocol (in ASM) to dump models into a raw format. Chances are your going to need to know the following: C/C++, ASM, how an emulator works (which requires C), how the ROM works (which requires debugging), and a lot of patience, and dedication.

Also, from a coders perspective making a topic about modding SSB then going, 'lol, who can code to help me?' isn't really demonstrating a commitment to do much besides bug.

PS: Saying you know HTML, QBASIC, and Javascript is an analogy to reading an elementary book on rocks, and saying you know stuff about Earth Science.

- okaygo

 

[Nephiros]

^ reason why this will fail

(:

 

[okaygo]

I also forgot to add, if you guys are really serious about doing this just know that your going to have to write your own model exporter/importer which can be achieved by modifying an opensourced video plugin to parse calls made by the ROM to dump model data into a specific file format via conversion. You will also need a way to import model data back in (which isn't really hard IIRC).

You should START the project doing what I suggested, and ask questions about bits and pieces. Once you document the memory locations, you'll be able to write some pretty cool hacks in gameshark.

Asking for help in a 'do it for me' manner, will only get you trolls/flames. Asking viable questions such as ant-d did will start a discussion and point to a solution.

-okaygo

(I hope I don't discourage you guys, just keep in mind that modding a ROM requires a skillset in more than just Wordpad.)

PS: When that person posted the shot, and said 'hey look, its like SMASH BROTHERS but all mixed up', what you were seeing was an ASCII representation of the ROM header, most likely it had been Byte Swapped, I don't know as Wordpad isn't one my favorite tools for debugging.

 

[Alphalink]

I also forgot to add, if you guys are really serious about doing this just know that your going to have to write your own model exporter/importer which can be achieved by modifying an opensourced video plugin to parse calls made by the ROM to dump model data into a specific file format via conversion. You will also need a way to import model data back in (which isn't really hard IIRC).

You should START the project doing what I suggested, and ask questions about bits and pieces. Once you document the memory locations, you'll be able to write some pretty cool hacks in gameshark.

Asking for help in a 'do it for me' manner, will only get you trolls/flames. Asking viable questions such as ant-d did will start a discussion and point to a solution.

-okaygo

(I hope I don't discourage you guys, just keep in mind that modding a ROM requires a skillset in more than just Wordpad.)

PS: When that person posted the shot, and said 'hey look, its like SMASH BROTHERS but all mixed up', what you were seeing was an ASCII representation of the ROM header, most likely it had been Byte Swapped, I don't know as Wordpad isn't one my favorite tools for debugging.

I know exactly what you mean, we were not telling people to do the programming tech stuff for use, but if they could help us or give us tools that could aid us in the progress.

do you know programming,?? cause I you know any place with tutorials or such? cause your idea of a modified exporter is definitely a possible one. Frankly, I know NOTHING about programming.

What do you advise us to do first? Our goal is to make a model dumper of some sort like you said, but as I said, I have no programming exp, so I wouldnt now where to start.

 

[okaygo]

If you know nothing about programming, then you might want to start reading books. Anyways, I told you where to start... document the game, and document the memory locations.

 

[mask man]

i wander what the worled would be like if poeple read every post...
anyway i already stated that i was looking for a good hex editor to do just that,
erm well we already know how to edit the ROM data...erm atleast i thought we did...
alpha link... i thought you were going to be the programer?
and we know this will take a few years but im willing to keep going and not rest until i find a hex editor.
but i do thank you for pointing out your not trying to discaurage us.

 

[Alphalink]

yeah im programmer but I need orientation

im reading on how to program

 

[yoshi_fan]

This is gonna be Super Smash Mugen ...

 

[_kSo_]

LOL i didn't even know what mugen was until I just googled it

 

[Jigglymaster]

I'm very familiar with mugen. And seeing that not only you can program your own character but you can give it AI. Which means that you could also give these new characters AI or edit the original character's AI.

 

[mask man]

interesting...whats AI?

sounds like a programing lang i cant remember...
also lately i have been thinking.
what the heck are we going to do about making new B moves that arnt just melee attacks?
like projectiles?(samus's blaster,mario bros fire balls,links boomarange ect)
and the directionish stuff(like moves that send an enemy up,or spikes ect)
well that might be easy,
well and most other attack properties that arnt hitboxes and easy stuff?
the poerson using the program might have to program from scratch!and i was hopeing on making this like and easy interface...for n00bs and poeple that know crap about comps can make stuff easier.

but im sure the game probly has code thats something like this:

If (button and stuff crap that adds up to a uair move)
{
GoTo uair($charname)
EndIf
}
(more If crap here for the other moves)
:uairlink
(code for links uair attack)


also the GoTo thing goes to the part of the script with links uair info.
NOTICE: this stuff isnt real ROM code.

 

[mooseproduce]

"interesting...whats AI?"

ROOOOOOOOOOOOFL

It stands for artificial intelligence; basically it is the code that decides what enemies will do.



The thing about programming is that if you want to learn to do it, then you need to put this project on the shelf until you can. One does not learn to program while simultaneously making the first Smash Brothers mod ever any more than one tank cats into Mordor. Not to overdo the metaphor thing (someone said something applicable about rocks earlier), but what you're trying to do is like learning how to fly by jumping off a cliff. You want to know what you're doing first, and then jump off a - I mean, make a Smash mod.

 

[Zantetsu]

Well since im kinda helping out i say we add falco first. He wouldnt be to hard due to him having close moves to fox. All we would do is take fox's moves and switch the actions they do i guess :S

Why we shouldnt use other clones
---
Pichu = No one in ssb64 hurt themselfs on any attack so i dont know if we could make pichu

Roy = Marth isnt in it T_T

Ganon = To heavy and slow. Only playable with shuffles in melee

Doc = Really close to the same and the fair is the only big notice and since mario's fair is different in ssb then melee it wouldnt really work

Young link = No one wants a ****ing kid

W00t! 500 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mask man]

i agree with clones.plus i dont have melee.so i dont realy know a **** about it.
moose does have a point though...we need a programer other then alpha link since hes learning programing.

aslo i might be afl for about a month.chances are i wont find a hex editor within that time.

 

[Alphalink]

"interesting...whats AI?"

ROOOOOOOOOOOOFL

It stands for artificial intelligence; basically it is the code that decides what enemies will do.



The thing about programming is that if you want to learn to do it, then you need to put this project on the shelf until you can. One does not learn to program while simultaneously making the first Smash Brothers mod ever any more than one tank cats into Mordor. Not to overdo the metaphor thing (someone said something applicable about rocks earlier), but what you're trying to do is like learning how to fly by jumping off a cliff. You want to know what you're doing first, and then jump off a - I mean, make a Smash mod.

i agree

Im already learning C++, making very basic programs and learning its config and such


though on how to implement it for a smash mod and such is still too advanced

so dont expect this to be done anytime soon

 

[Nephiros]

interesting...whats AI?

sounds like a programing lang i cant remember...

HAHAHA OH WOW

 

[mask man]

oh right i havnt said anything about implanting AI.
well if you ask me i think these will be used for multiplayer more then against CPUs.
but if i by chance discover that code with the handy dandy hexy edity i might change it up a little see what happens.of course making user interface to use AI might be hard for someone to program.

 

[okaygo]

Before you bake a bread, you must gather all the ingredients and prepare dough...

- okaygo

 

[Zantetsu]

okaygo should join

 

[okaygo]

I would join, if there is a clear demonstration of 'progress'... but let's face it, they still can't figure out how to use a Hex Editor, and they think that they are going to find the 'source' deep within Notepad. If I joined, I would also have to learn a lot more about ROM hacking (although I do have a good contact list in this field) and I doubt the work load would be an even split. Not only that, but I got lots of things going on in my life right now... more important things.

 

[Alphalink]

yeah, dont worry, Im learning to program, and though it wont be a while until I have the expertise to do this, at least ill learn and eventually will be able to do this

 

[technomancer]

This would be a great learning experience for anyone familiar with C++ to get a look at the low level code and do something interesting. I'm interested as well, and I know how to do alot of what is listed but, well, I already bought melee lol

 

[mask man]

omg.
whats this?the 3rd time?
as stated many times.we know we havnt found the source code and we DONT HAVE A HE YET.

 

[mooseproduce]

Ganon = To heavy and slow. Only playable with shuffles in melee

Um, I'm sorry, is DK chopped chicken liver? Can you say "r-cancelling in the original Smash takes 3 frames instead of just halving them"?

 

[mask man]

dont you mean Z canceling?r canceling is in melee