SSB Creates: What If SSB Started on the Gamecube

[BonafideFella]

GAMEPLAY HOOK VOTES
1. KNEEOFJUSTICE99'S PITCH -- despite whatever editorial quibbling follows this opening, know that i am really invested in this pitch - i can imagine brawls particularly in their final moments becoming raucous with both players ricocheting off the walls before one eclipses the border.
i think my primary "grievance" would be the movesets itself - counting throws, if i understand the pitch correctly, each character would only really have fifteen or so moves in their repertoire. i don't think that's a fault of the pitch, mind you, rather a feature of that accessibility. with a pitch like this perhaps i'm just having trouble visualizing truncated movesets without, say, an idea of how movement works to carry those combos and make them engaging - ultimately i'm being pendantic because i'm earnestly invested. rah rah!
2: MY PITCH -- my pitch is moreso an impassioned argument for exaggerating the original tenets of smash 64's pitch document - that said I do think there's capabilities for fascinating gameplay with zonebreaking and wall bounces, evoking the tagfighters of yore. if it gets voted in, i'll be sure to clarify the semantical side of the gameplay with more precision!
3: PUPP135’S PITCH -- a more tempered approach merging 64 and melee but altogether one that i think has merit, especially if we’re able to recontextualize broader mechanics over time. i definitely think it’s well-considered all the more.

shoutout to master hero’s pitch! although im admittedly not a fan of traditional healthbars transplanted into smash’s gameplay as the sole gameplay style, there’s a TONNE of really fascinating and well-thought-out ideas — i have no doubt your contributions to the thread later will be invaluable :>

STAGE COUNT VOTES
1. MASTER HERO'S COUNT --
2. KNEEOFJUSTICE99'S COUNT --
3. PUPP135'S COUNT--
---
JOB 06 - MARIO & ANIMAL CROSSING ARENA SUBMISSIONS
JOB 06A - KALIMARI DESERT // {MARIO KART 64}

insofar as the mario series is concerned, especially at this time period - there's two hands' worth of valid candidates of representative settings. permit me to move askance of them and propose kalimari desert - headliner of mario kart 64's mushroom cup and its promotional material!
now, i do understand this may be a hard sell - mario kart 64 would be eclipsed by two generations {super circuit; double dash} before the launch date of this hypothetical game - but even now and ESPECIALLY then, kart 64's heralded as the premier title of the franchise. that and i think a course literally emblazoned with the "64" of the previous console generation would be a nice sentiment.
ideally the battle would take place atop the train {another flash of king of fighters inspiration!} as the locomotive veers around the perimeter of the racecourse, though i think passing by stationary platforms; billboards; buttes, etc. could service the track nicely. perhaps the tunnel could cut off the top blast zone temporarily, or item boxes could rustle onto the train from the cargo?

JOB 06B - THE WISHING WELL // {ANIMAL CROSSING}

the wishing well serves as a nice animal crossing stage for a few reasons - for want of one, it features trees prominently to display any change in seasons. to my understanding, the well in first-generation animal crossing serves as a communal hub area, allowing a swath of villager cameos. i'd imagine the central floating platform being built off the wishing well sculpture itself, with shrines on either side offer structural support for platforms.

JOB 07 - CHARACTER SUBMISSION
クチート // MAWILE -- {POKEMON}

allow me to run you, the viewer, through the characters i was originally going to submit

- lip, a small disjoint character with sneaky set-ups you wouldn't suspect from an innocuous-looking character​

- saki amamiya, a fast-paced rushdown character​

- gardevoir, a prominent somewhat-humanoid third-generation (at that point, contemporary) pokemon​

with this context, i do hope mawile makes a touch more sense in terms of fulfilling those niches. kneeofjustice99 posited pikachu NOT being the first pokemon representative - which to me indicates a chance to raise the star of another prominent, if comparatively obscure, pokemon.
i imagine them being a smaller; faster; and sneakier disjoint character with their jaw-like horns - not to mention having a third-gen pokemon would be lovely. another point of contention is that mawile's gen iii moveset consists of steel and dark-type moves primarily - representing the two types most first-gen pokemon straight-up cannot. that's pretty neat to me.
and a small heavyweight! a niche not even smash has caught up to yet in its monolithic state.

please, somebody resubmit ray mk down the line

 

[Louie G.]

JOB 07 - CHARACTER SUBMISSION
クチート // MAWILE -- {POKEMON}

I really like this idea! I'm gonna sit on my nomination a bit more, so I'll post formally tomorrow, but just wanted to be transparent about my alternative pitch for Pokemon - Jirachi, who would have been a real hot character around this time because of a movie in tow and status as Gen 3's mythical 'Mon. I feel like more of a 'pixie' style character would be interesting since we've never had anyone like Mew join our Smash before either. I might fall back on this if Pikachu and Mawile get passed on this round, but I think I'm gonna toss my support behind this one.

Also I mean, Mawile's design is just super fun. The idea of a character whose giant ponytail is effectively a crocodile mouth lends to instant fun moveset inspiration - it wouldn't be too much of a head-scratcher to understand why, in this universe, Mawile may have been the one to strike Sakurai's fancy.

I've got some more oddball picks I wanna toss out there (love your mention of Lip and Saki) but all the same I think we should consider accounting for essentials like Kirby and Fox... I'll sit back and see what a few other participants want to nominate, in hopes that will make my choice a bit easier.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Resubmitting Kirby

Stage Vote:

1. 26
2. 25
3. 24

 

[BonafideFella]

I really like this idea! I'm gonna sit on my nomination a bit more, so I'll post formally tomorrow, but just wanted to be transparent about my alternative pitch for Pokemon - Jirachi, who would have been a real hot character around this time because of a movie in tow and status as Gen 3's mythical 'Mon. I feel like more of a 'pixie' style character would be interesting since we've never had anyone like Mew join our Smash before either. I might fall back on this if Pikachu and Mawile get passed on this round, but I think I'm gonna toss my support behind this one.

this pitch rocks, especially seeing how doom desire can be translated -- i hope you know you got my support for this pitch too {!!}

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

1. Master Hero
2. Pupp
3. Knee

1. Bona
2. Master Hero
3. Knee

Job 4: Fox McCloud (Star Fox)

I think Fox is a good option, he is same from OG smash for base of his moveset

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Gameplay Vote

1. BonafideFella - The Zonebreaking mechanic genuinely sounds like something incredibly fun to mess around with, and the thoughts on how it'd be used in marketing really give the pitch a unique vibe. (And the art too... damn!)
2. Pupp135 - Sometimes, simplicity really is a good thing. I like the idea of deliberately not including elements like wavedashing - nothing against them, but this game having a more casual feel to it seems like it'd be really fitting, especially as the first title in a series.
3. Master Hero Sack-Of-Rye - This one feels similarly interesting in that I think it's a neat alternate look at Smash's gameplay as a whole. Not many notes, I think the idea of a healthbar is interesting in this context, though.

Some cool ideas from everyone, though!

Quick side note. I noticed Bonafide mentioned they had a few questions, and to be honest, my initial submission was a little light on details; that's entirely my own fault, and there's elements I sort of envisioned in my mind that just completely escaped the process of being put to screen. Here's a quick rundown;

• Yes, each character's moveset is on the more limited side, most likely not having that many attacks to work with - if we assume the neutral, up and down inputs apply, that means there's likely Ground!Light, Ground!Heavy, Air!Light, Air!Heavy and then grabs (which are always grounded), plus maybe special cases like getups and whatnot, so that's no more than 18 total moves. That being said; I think the simplicity of these toolkits would be a feature of the game's approachability, and in some senses, it also makes it easier to keep track of what you're working with while characters are ricocheting all over the screen.
• The trifecta between Attack > Grab > Shield is something I think should remain, but would need some work given how aerially focused things are. As a general rule, grabs/throws should be powerful "finishing" tools that you can use to catch your opponent off-guard, but I wouldn't have your shield work in the air; as for whether it'd take the form of an air-dodge or something akin to a "burst" mechanic to escape combos, I'm not entirely sure. (On a related note, there'd have to be repeating attack decay of some kind to alleviate infinites. They're not fun.)
• That aside, I think movement should be fast and fluid; far moreso than would be the case in most tradfighters (which was an element I think I kind of missed out in my initial pitch.) Animation Versus does a good job of encapsulating this; really fast-paced movement and a very fluid feel, but still sort of existing in the constraints of a tradfighter in terms of basic design (rather than focusing heavily on elements like platform management or edgeguarding as are the case in our Smash Bros.)

If I had to list key inspirations, I'm thinking something akin to Animation Versus or maybe even Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Very frantic, very fast-paced, very fun. Feel free to disregard all of this, though; I really ought to have included it the first time around.

Stage Vote

1. 24
2. 25
3. 26

Job #06:
Stage Name: Royal Raceway
Stage Origin: Mario Kart 64 (N64, 1996)

I think Bonafide's onto something by going with a Mario Kart track, but I'll effectively kill two birds with one stone with Royal Raceway - which is inspired by the starting area of Super Mario 64, featuring Peach's castle in the background as a major element. This might seem like a bit of an odd choice to go with at a glance, compared to the mainline series' fairly extensive pedigree by this point, but a big appeal of the Mario series is how its characters and world work well as an ensemble cast that can slot handily into any kind of role; and with the N64 and GCN having specifically been a huge period for Mario spinoffs, I think it's something that works quite well.

That being said, Royal Raceway's design would recieve some minor changes in lieu of the new hardware it's on; with some similarities to its appearance as we know it in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Taking place by the turn closest to the central lake, the stage would feature an overview of Peach's castle in the background nestled amongst the hills, while non-playable drivers from Super Mario Kart and Mario Kart Super Circuit would drive around the track. They wouldn't interfere with the fight, however - the stage's main gimmick relates to the stadium behind the field of play, which cheers on different characters during the fight using mini-CD quality audio.

Stage Name: Train Station
Stage Origin: Doubutsu no Mori (N64, 2000)

Where better to do battle than the roof of a moving train? The idea behind this is that it's specifically an environment that any Animal Crossing player would be familiar with, with the game starting on the train while you converse with its passengers. With this being an element featured as far back as the first game, and featured in a slightly larger role in the Gamecube release due to its ability to visit other towns, I reckon it's a cool stage choice.

The battle itself would take place on a train which, functionally, would work a little like our Spirit Tracks; there's the train at the front, a pair of passenger trains, and a flatbed that doesn't contain anything, providing some variety in height. The train's route is roughly circular, starting at the train station and then picking up speed around a mountain, eventually reaching a clearing which displays a town, another mountain into a tunnel, and then out into the train station again. In a similar manner to the last stage, this stage's gimmick doesn't play into gameplay, but visuals; trees and the environment will change based on the season in your console's memory, as will the time of day. This aside, the town featured in the clearing will (if applicable) match one stored in your memory card, and if there is one there, then the villagers waiting at the train station or featured as the train's passengers will match the villagers living at your town!

Job #05:
Fighter Name: Lip
Fighter Origin: Panel de Pon (SFC, 1995)

This might seem like an odd choice at a glance, but I think Lip's in a surprisingly good state for this era in particular. Panel de Pon may have been a Japan-exclusive at this time, but the series as a whole would be released with multiple titles in Western markets under the name Puzzle League - and with titles like the Satellaview series and Pokémon Puzzle League being fairly recent, not to mention the 2003 Nintendo Puzzle Collection including the original Panel de Pon, I think she's a solidly relevant dark horse candidate for the era.

This aside; I think representing a wide swathe of Nintendo's products would be an important way of getting variety in our character picks, and Lip feels like she'd fit right in alongside characters like K.K. (and potential future picks) as characters from more unorthodox sources for a fighting game, as well as being designed to appeal to different kinds of players. Being the game that features characters your dad would recognise (Mario), cool fighters to appeal to teens (Samus), weirdoes with a cartoonish look (Wario) and more casual players (K.K.), Lip fits right in as a character who'd appeal more to younger girls (which was part of the reason Panel de Pon was even included in Nintendo Puzzle Collection to begin with.)

All of that aside; I also think there's a lot of potential in Lip as a fighter. Her nature as a flower-themed fairy means there's tons of fun plant-based magic attacks you could give to her, and Lip's Stick would easily be one of the more unique weapons even if we didn't give it the poison effect most of us associate with it nowadays. This, coupled with her peppy personality and slight ineptitude at casting magic, would undoubtedly give her a really unique vibe.

(All of that being said, shoutout to Saki; I came this close to going with him, but I wouldn't want too many of our characters to fall into the same visual language? Could still totally be a fun candidate down the line, though.)

 

[BonafideFella]

Quick side note. I noticed Bonafide mentioned they had a few questions, and to be honest, my initial submission was a little light on details; that's entirely my own fault, and there's elements I sort of envisioned in my mind that just completely escaped the process of being put to screen. Here's a quick rundown;

• Yes, each character's moveset is on the more limited side, most likely not having that many attacks to work with - if we assume the neutral, up and down inputs apply, that means there's likely Ground!Light, Ground!Heavy, Air!Light, Air!Heavy and then grabs (which are always grounded), plus maybe special cases like getups and whatnot, so that's no more than 18 total moves. That being said; I think the simplicity of these toolkits would be a feature of the game's approachability, and in some senses, it also makes it easier to keep track of what you're working with while characters are ricocheting all over the screen.
• The trifecta between Attack > Grab > Shield is something I think should remain, but would need some work given how aerially focused things are. As a general rule, grabs/throws should be powerful "finishing" tools that you can use to catch your opponent off-guard, but I wouldn't have your shield work in the air; as for whether it'd take the form of an air-dodge or something akin to a "burst" mechanic to escape combos, I'm not entirely sure. (On a related note, there'd have to be repeating attack decay of some kind to alleviate infinites. They're not fun.)
• That aside, I think movement should be fast and fluid; far moreso than would be the case in most tradfighters (which was an element I think I kind of missed out in my initial pitch.) Animation Versus does a good job of encapsulating this; really fast-paced movement and a very fluid feel, but still sort of existing in the constraints of a tradfighter in terms of basic design (rather than focusing heavily on elements like platform management or edgeguarding as are the case in our Smash Bros.)

If I had to list key inspirations, I'm thinking something akin to Animation Versus or maybe even Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Very frantic, very fast-paced, very fun. Feel free to disregard all of this, though; I really ought to have included it the first time around.

no, please don't discount it! it elucidates a great deal of what i was curious about :> -- plus i admire gameplay write-ups on this site more than anything
i definitely vibe with how you describe movement, i think if each character has smaller move kits than giving each one a distinctive mobility tool {like wario careening off a wall if it hits it with a heavy, or samus entering morph ball form} would be really fun.

as for defense, it could just be my general antipathy towards burst mechanics - and the launchability mechanic you describe would make infinites WAY harder since knockback growth is tied to the recipient of the attack and not the attack itself if i understand correctly. if i may, i'd posit in the air activating some rebound parry {its kinda stupid}. effectively it's where you absorb the attacks' impact, fly backwards without damage but thrice the knockback, rebounding off the blast zone and collide with the opponent could be cool! its a high skill ceiling especially with DI but its also stupid enough for casual players to encourage offensive/defensive plays.

but ack, its not my pitch to riff on! thank you for the insight though, greatly appreciate it :> - the fluidity comparative to animation versus really solidifies it in my mind how those characters move

(( also great pitches - i also wrote a paragraph for lip and the overlap in the points made is VERY validating hehe }}

 

[ssbashworld]

I have no preference for our gameplay job.

Stage Count
1 Master Hero Sock-on-Rye - 26
2 BonafideFella - 25
3 Pupp135 - 24

Olimar (Pikmin)

Big new ip on gamecube that would have gotten its sequel earlier in the year we are releasing.

Mario Stage - Peachs Castle (as is in Smash)

Animal Crossing Stage - Village Stroll

Rather than focusing on a single area you will travel on a slow scrolling stage with occasional trees, rocks, pitfalls, buildings, etc serving as small obstacles. Once you reach the end of the village you turn around & go in reverse.

 

[darkvortex]

(Toon) Link

Part of the reason I (& perhaps others since Link is a surprising pick to not have added yet) is because i wasnt sure when we are releasing which effects the direction Zelda content may go. Now that we know i will commit to saying Wind Waker would be my choice for the focus for the series.

We do have a specific job coming up where we vote on which Link we're adding

 

[ssbashworld]

We do have a specific job coming up where we vote on which Link we're adding

Thanks, didnt realize that (although thinking about it it was weird that link didnt get nominated again yet), will change shortly.

 

[Otoad64]

Mario Stage: Shy Guy's Toybox

It may seem like an odd choice to choose a stage from Paper Mario, of all things, and that's because it kinda is, but I think it provides a unique and fun setting for a stage in this game, with different platforms made out of blocks, and even maybe General Guy appearing as a hazard in his tank. I'm not sure if the whole idea of the fighters being toys would still be a thing, but even if it's not, a crossover game like Smash essentially is a toybox for setting up dream matches between different characters, so this can kinda elevate that childlike aspect to it. Plus, elements from Paper Mario had been used in other Mario games around this time, like the Star Spirits and Whacka appearing in Mario Party 5 and 6 respectively, so it doesn't feel too out of place.

Animal Crossing Stage: Smashville

I suppose somebody's gotta do it. Though, despite K. K. Slider being playable already, I think it would be cool if he could still appear on the stage if he's not fighting. In general I think it'd be cool to have playable characters make stage cameos if they aren't in the match.