squirtles side -b

[Hypethug]

Does anyone else think its dumb that squirtles side b has no super armor towards projectiles?

 

[MonkUnit]

Squirtle's sideB has 4% armor in all forms.

 

[Translucent]

Squirtle's side b is so good :/

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Squirtle's SideB is awesome. It's his best non-bubble move.

 

[Translucent]

I have to argue that taunt with shades is better than side-b. When he goes into his shell the shades are hidden.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

You can't see his shades during SideB? What kind of X-Ray vision do you have?

 

[Translucent]

Lol, what?

Anyways, side taunt is pretty cool. He balances on his tail and spins like the happy baller he is.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I personally think it'd make more sense for his glasses to come out on his Down taunt. That way it looks like he's pulling them out of his shell.

 

[Translucent]

He should just get them permanently because you should never ever get hit while playing squirtle. He's too small for anyone to see. :D

 

[Hypethug]

4% armor , that doesn't change the fact that every projectile stops it ,, nobody thinks squirtles side b shouldn't be stoped by Mario's fire ball or other things

 

[SpiderMad]

Well it stops Falco, any higher and it'll probably stop a lot of tilts and stuff. I think they purposely made it not THAT good of an option/move so he wouldn't turn into another 2.1 Sonic, who they deemed centralized too much on his spins.

 

[rbd]

Is anyone else having trouble constantly getting a hit after the initial side b one? I like how you pop out after hitting with it, but I rarely seem to be able to land an aerial during that time. Are there certain weights of characters it works better on, and is it very susceptible to DI?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I don't have much trouble with it. You do have to read their DI so you know which aerial to use, though. At certain %s they'll go too far for them to get hit, so you have to know when that is so you don't make yourself vulnerable by trying to chase them

 

[Dubforce]

Does anyone else think its dumb that squirtles side b has no super armor towards projectiles?

Well, his shellshift clinks with projectiles. If you feel pressured just shellshift into your opponents range and WD > ftilt.

 

[dettadeus]

Well, his shellshift clinks with projectiles. If you feel pressured just shellshift into your opponents range and WD > ftilt.

don't even have to waste time wavedashing

hydroftilt is a thing and covers about the same distance

 

[Dubforce]

don't even have to waste time wavedashing

hydroftilt is a thing and covers about the same distance

Pretty slick yeah. I just read about this on the boards and it seems nifty.

 

[traffic.]

Is anyone else having trouble constantly getting a hit after the initial side b one? I like how you pop out after hitting with it, but I rarely seem to be able to land an aerial during that time. Are there certain weights of characters it works better on, and is it very susceptible to DI?

nair or fair hit quite often, as well as the janky possibility of chaining side-b's back and forth at low %. it has more to do with timing than anything else, but they make pretty solid tech chases as well.

I have more problems with accidentally hopping off the edge and then aqua jetting to my certain doom.

 

[Dubforce]

My main SD (maybe only at this point) with withdrawal is starting it and offstage but really close and dropping into the ledge and bouncing off to me doom. It feels like it should go on the ledge but it starts moving down before it starts moving forward, which is lame.

 

[traffic.]

Yeah if you're really lucky you can pop aqua jet right off the wall and still grab the ledge, but it's a very frustrating thing to watch your turtle peg the wall and then aqua jet instead of cancel to surf back to safety. factor in the way up automatically triggers shell hop (with tap jump off) holding up out of safety with squirtle is a bad habit to try and break.

after a few hours of practice we've deduced that you can only chain side-b's fluently when your opponent misses their knockdown tech, however if they dont you can start to rack up some nice damage similar to shuffle combos by simply tech chasing left or right with a follow-up side-b, whenever they do tech you can opt out for a nair or a fair and continue being a bizzy boss.

 

[Dubforce]

Okay so i just found out that you can wallcling directly out of a canceled side-b. So thats nice. If you mess up the side-b, tap b and hold into the wall. Pretty nifty trick. Not a bad mindgame either.

Also, for general improvement (as I am a little behind most of you in general skill likely) I started to call out things I'm doing wrong or that I want to take out of my play. As in, I have a habit I want to break. Basically if someone shields right in front of me I will always jab > downtilt. I think I developed this as kind of a pressure > shieldpoke tool without realizing it. It works for that, but why not just grab, right? So every time I downtilt I say something outloud like "stop downtilting." This aided me in breaking the habit, or at least starting to.

Other things this has been helping me with today:
Messing up side-b
Rolling at dumb times
Using my double jump as soon as my hitstun is gone
Using dash attack as soon as I wavedash when I mean to ftilt.

Anyways. The point is that it helps me, so it might help you too. Even if you already have a solid playstyle, maybe it could help with adapting to squirtle.

 

[traffic.]

the wallcling bit is actually awesome, i will try and discipline that soon. as for developing strong habits, my friends and i have been gaming for a long time and are the first to yell at each other over the bad habits we see each other developing. always important to have a training partner that you can yell at each other without getting upset or taking it personally.

 

[Dubforce]

All my friends either don't play smash at a competitive level or they are already so far ahead of me that I couldn't possibly add to their playstyle. It sucks because I'm kind of like....singled out.

**** jacksonville.

 

[TheTTimeLives]

Other things this has been helping me with today:
Messing up side-b
Rolling at dumb times
Using my double jump as soon as my hitstun is gone
Using dash attack as soon as I wavedash when I mean to ftilt.

Yea we were all there at some point. With dumb rolling just learn how to take advantage of stronger options than roll (which mind you even in elite play is situationally useful.) Practice wavedashing out and into shield by taking advantage of the jump canceling, wavedash varying distances and patterns on command and remember that not only can you wave dash down to cancel all momentum but you can also crouch cancel and scoot (I dunno the term for this) by shielding early in your run to cancel all momentum. Get comfortable using this and than reintegrate rolls and you'll be golden.

Back on topic, albeit briefly.

Squirtle's side b is the #1 cause of death for me as a casual squirtle player. It's too risky to be used near the edge of any stage. If they sidestep, roll, jump, air-dodge etc you go straight off the edge and the spacing and timing to even get back to the edge is difficult and many times impossible. I also agree with comboing side b. I dunno if it's the momentum, the fact that I never know when it's gonna land and squirtle's gonna pop out or that I'm always worried about suiciding off the ledge but I just end up nairing or doing another side b every time.

 

[traffic.]

All my friends either don't play smash at a competitive level or they are already so far ahead of me that I couldn't possibly add to their playstyle. It sucks because I'm kind of like....singled out.

**** jacksonville.

If you have friends who are considerably better than you, ask them to help you practice. If they aren't jerks they should be more than excited to play a few 99 stock matches and help you work on your mechanics. I have a buddy who literally beat me every round for 34 hours straight, but by the end of it I was a much stronger player because I got to constantly practice certain situations repeatedly. Losing repeatedly to a stronger opponent is the best way to practice, as long as you are focusing on surviving longer and doing better every round. Take joy in the rounds you get 2 kills, and shake off the rounds you get JV5'ed. You will gain many useful skills losing repeatedly, you just have to shift your focus to "losing less" and "dying better" which seem funny at first, but end up being the most rewarding part of the game.

on topic edit- withdraw is a two-edged blade. it can be the most effective barrage of damage you have, and the thing that assuredly loses you the match. take it for what it is, you are stronger, but more vulnerable. you need to learn first how to not die with it every time you do, which of course means spending a lot of practice time over using and abusing it, but once you can control yourself without dying, switch focus to never using it at all until you have comfort with the rest of your skills. It's easy to over focus on using it because you want to use it better, but if it becomes the only attack you use, you will always die using it, because you cant possibly die doing anything else. when you learn how to use the rest of your arsenal effectively, the number of openings for a free withdraw will reveal themselves.

 

[K@$h]

one thing i have trouble is using the side-b as a recovery. i seen people be able to pop out of it and recover back on stage, and i can do that about 50% of the time. do you have to save your jump to be able to pop out of your side-b? or am i just not getting the timing down?

 

[Translucent]

You can press up-b to aqua jet upwards out of your side-b or you can choose to just press b to cancel it and you can use your double jump(if you have one) and then waterfall upwards to the ledge.

 

[bubbaking]

4% armor , that doesn't change the fact that every projectile stops it ,, nobody thinks squirtles side b shouldn't be stoped by Mario's fire ball or other things

I believe Squirt's WD goes through Falco's lasers and Sheik's needles (at least partially charged ones; I've done that myself), and those are two of the best projectiles in the game. It also goes through most jabs and stuff, so this move is good enough.

Basically if someone shields right in front of me I will always jab > downtilt. I think I developed this as kind of a pressure > shieldpoke tool without realizing it. It works for that, but why not just grab, right? So every time I downtilt I say something outloud like "stop downtilting." This aided me in breaking the habit, or at least starting to.

It's great that you figured to use grab like this! Just want to let you know that sometimes, dtilt is the better option because jab > grab is not a true shieldstring. It's a mix-up/frame-trap that can be spot-dodged or rolled out of (or upB'd easily if the opponent is Bowser or Pit). For this reason, you STILL might wanna throw in some dtilts every now and then. I know I do. Dtilt also sets up combos pretty nicely.

 

[jdmcwombat]

Shameless self promotion. Withdraw combo tutorial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPxcEq-amGs&t=1m26s

 

[Sai_]

I think all of his turtle forms are broken. ****ing armor.

 

[Burnsy]

lol. "Turtle forms"

 

[Oro?!]

All of his armor is extremely weak except for nair and fsmash, which are only marginally stronger. It doesn't take much to put squirtle into tumble which causes all of his armor (AND SHADES) to break except for nair/fsmash.

 

[Burnsy]

All of his armor is extremely weak except for nair and fsmash, which are only marginally stronger. It doesn't take much to put squirtle into tumble which causes all of his armor (AND SHADES) to break except for nair/fsmash.

Dsmash and Aquajet (side-b>A) both have the same medium armor as fsmash and Nair.

 

[Oro?!]

Actually I think aquajet has less armor than 2.5 when it was medium and squirtle was introduced, but you are right about dsmash.

 

[Burnsy]

Actually I think aquajet has less armor than 2.5 when it was medium and squirtle was introduced, but you are right about dsmash.

He still flashes blue when he uses aquajet. If its not medium armor, wouldn't that visual cue be a mistake? Light armor is supposed to be invisible.

Edit:
Checked the changelogs. The transition to 2.6 claimed that aquajet has medium armor while squirtle is in his shell, and this was not reported as changed in the 3.0 changelog. Another interesting factor that I was unaware of was that while fsmash, dsmash and Nair only have medium armor initially, the remainder of the moves have invisible light armor.

 

[Oro?!]

I'm fairly sure he doesn't anymore.

<cmart01>: I just looked at the pac and it has light armor and no flash

 

[Burnsy]

I'm fairly sure he doesn't anymore.

<cmart01>: I just looked at the pac and it has light armor and no flash

Ew, why wasn't this included in the changelog? One of the reasons I dont go combing through character files when an update drops is because I expect changelogs to be comprehensive. What other undocumented changes were there?

It's also frustrating because for months I've been recovering with a move thinking that it is safer to use than it actually is.

 

[Oro?!]

I'm pretty sure that was in the 2.6 changelog? Squirtle hasn't been on the receiving end of many changes either way, so that's always nice ~_~

 

[Burnsy]

I'm pretty sure that was in the 2.6 changelog? Squirtle hasn't been on the receiving end of many changes either way, so that's always nice ~_~

From the 2.6 changelog:

-Aqua Jet has Medium Armor while Squirtle is in his shell

Its a pretty important distinction. Should I be prepared to double check changes in bbox in the future?

 

[Daftatt]

I'm pretty sure withdraw DOES go through link's arrows usually. also the fact that withdraw get's interrupted by projectiles is lessened in significance because the move usually goes under projectiles.

 

[Oro?!]

Its a pretty important distinction. Should I be prepared to double check changes in bbox in the future?

Do YOU really think that is necessary? We try to compile everything, and it was clearly a mistake. There is no change that is intentionally left out of changelogs...