This thread shouldn't be locked.
We already have a thread about the trainer. However, this is practically FOUR characters in one, and the trainer himself doesn't actually do anything.
This is an amazingly complex "character".
So I think the Red thread should remain to be about general discussion concerning the character as a whole and the trainer, and how awesome it all is.
This thread is dedicated to the three different Pokemon.
General:
Switching:
Down Special Move: Pokémon change
Good job, Ivysaur! Come back!
The returning Pokémon tags the next Pokémon.
Charizard! I choose you!
They swap out in a set order: Squirtle→Ivysaur→Charizard.
-It seems that switching will take some time. This poses a potential danger to the Pokemon as the opponent can just anticipate the entry of the following Pokemon, charging up a Smash or something like it.
-You can't directly choose which of the two other Pokemon you want to switch to.
-It will probably be impossible to just switch out your Pokemon to protect it from a combo or from falling off the edge.
-It will be interesting to see how Sakurai will balance this, as switching is, unlike with Zelda/Sheik, a necessity:
Stamina:
"They all share the same damage meter, so they don’t recover from damage during Pokémon Change. But they also have another stat, which you might call stamina.
If you keep fighting with the same Pokémon, or if you change them out too often, it’s not so good for the Pokémon.
If you want to be a good Pokémon Trainer, you’ll need to learn these kinds of ins and outs."
The endearing last line aside, this makes it clear that you can't just treat this trio as one fighter and two trashy asides. You will have to use them all. Skipping through Pokemon to get back to your favourite again seems to be a no-no as well.
So how will Stamina work?
Apparently, after staying out for a certain time, or maybe after receiving a certain amount of damage, a Pokemon will start being exhausted. This might be shown by a signal somewhere that it's becoming exhausted, or it just shows in the behaviour of the Pokemon while standing still.
What will it do?
My guess is that the longer you keep an exhausted Pokemon in the battlefield, the more often it will happen that it becomes unresponsive for a second as it catches its breath.
Other possibilities are reduction of stats, which I don't see as ideal for some reason.
The different fighters:
Now this is where it gets interesting.
You have three starters from all three evolutionary phases.
If you went by the game, this would mean that Squirtle ain't got NOTHING on Charizard, who is completely evolved.
That is, unless their levels are radically different.
My guess is that it will be more like in the anime, where being evolved or not just kinda doesn't seem to be as important.
Chances are that all three Pokemon are, disregarding what will happen on the tournament level, balanced.
So what will their different strengths be? Squirtle's strength would usually be defense, but he's obviously lighter than Charizard, right?
Sakurai will have to be creative.
Here's my theories.
Squirtle:
Squirtle will be the balanced one. A combo artist.
He's shown next to Mario, which seems like a good comparison.
Look at the little guy's build.
He's compact and has short limbs. He also has a shell, which he's been known to withdraw into like a certain other turtley guy we know.
I believe that Squirtle's short limbs will allow him to strike with very quick attacks with medium strength, although it probably means he has a rather short reach.
Since Pokemon have rather little to work with in the games, the anime will probably be consulted as well. But it doesn't take an anime, I think, to realize that Squirtle seems rather bouncy. I think he will have decent aerial mobility and a very quick and overall good aerial game for edgeguarding and the like.
So all in all, I see Squirtle as the solid good-for-all Mario-type character who can combo well but usually relies on edgeguarding. He's also bound to have at least one projectile.
Here's some potential B moves for him:
^B: Rapid Spin
Self-explanatory. More vertical than Bowser's, light sideways knockback and a single hit only.
B: Bubble
A weak multi-hit thing somewhat like the Icies Blizzard or maybe Bowser's firebreath, but with somewhat different qualities overall.
>B: Water Gun
A projectile. Being water, this attack should deal little damage, but good knockback.
POTENTIAL FINAL SMASH: Hydro Pump
We don't know whether each of these guys has an own FS, but it's a possibility.
Judging by the anime, Squirtle's Hydro Pump consists of him withdrawing into his shell and spinning while spewing water REALLY hard.
Ivysaur:
Ivysaur will be a unique one. A trickster with great range, some random strong attacks and projectiles. Like Samus or Link!
He's seen running in the screenshot. Note how this is a quadruped being. In terms of mobility, I expect him to have a relatively fast dash on the ground, but to be a lousy jumper. No aerial combat for this one.
However, everyone who plays the games or knows the anime knows what sorts of tricks grass-type Pokemon have.
Bulbasaur, Ivysaur's pre-evolution, is known for Vine Whip, a whip attack with very long range, Razor Leaf, a leaf projectile with great critical hit rate and Solar Beam, a powerful move that requires charging up.
All these are bound to appear in the moveset, and I expect Vine Whip to be quite integral to the moveset as a whole. Thus my prediction that Ivysaur will be known for Marth-like range, albeit with far less power.
And can you say "extended grab"?
So all in all, Ivysaur is apt to be a fighter with a lot of tricks up his sleeve. With grass-type Pokemon, the possibilities are endless. Vine Whips for tilts. Status-affecting specials. Projectiles. And so on.
Possible B-moves:
^B: Sleep Powder
Like Jiggly
, Ivysaur will attempt to put his foes to sleep by spewing sleep powder out of his bud. This is slower than Jiggly's Sing, but has greater range.
Instead of using this to recovery, Ivysaur will use his extended Vine Whip grab to grab the edge by using Z in the air, like Link and Samus.
>B: Razor Leaf
A relatively powerful projectile with a somewhat irregular movement pattern. Also gives him a tiny bit more distance if used in the air, to aid recovery.
B: Leech Seed
Ivysaur will shoot out small seeds at random angles. If an enemy is hit by these, the seeds will pop open and grow into vines that quickly grow across the victim until they disappear soon afterwards. The victim will have 1% of damage dealt at the most three times over a period of about 5 seconds, each time with light stun time that allows Ivysaur to move in for an attack and to interrupt their combos.
Seeds that fall on the ground will still spread and make the ground harder to walk on for a moment.
POTENTIAL FINAL SMASH: Solar Beam
Ivysaur collects sunlight in his bud for moment.
When he's done, the energy shoots out again skywards, then, after a short moment of silence, several beams shoot randomly all over the stage.
Charizard:
What's left to say, Charizard will be the powerhouse in this trio.
Despite being very fast in the games, chances are this will not be the case here.
As seen in the screenshot, Charizard moves on his hind legs on the ground. Since he's not likely to suddenly start sliding, this will make him very immobile on the ground and consequently even slower than Bowser.
However, being a flying dragon, his aerial movement speed might make up for this.
Still, his movements will probably be clumsy and slow, which he'll have to make up for with some brute strength, range and his fiery breath.
And smooth looks. Oooh yeah.
^B: Fly
True to the HM, Charizard will fly upwards into the sky a great distancy... however, this doesn't help his recovery as much as it may seem, as he can't grab the edge while going up.
He slants backwards, then does a looping at the apex of his flight, to strike back down at a great speed. As he comes close to the point where he left off, he starts flying horizontally for a relatively long distance. The energy used in this change of direction after the momentum of the downward dash deals some heavy damage and knockback to anyone stupid enough to not make way for the dragon.
It's a mediocre move for recovery, but being so heavy and fast in the air with several jumps already, that's all he needs.
>B: Flamethrower
Good old flamethrower. Nice for edgeguarding. Unlike Bowsers, Charizard's can be used in the air a little longer if you use his momentum right, which lets you play fighter jet. \o_
B: Heat Wave
Charizard stands in place, stomps on the floor and growls, then makes a wave of heat surround him. Takes a bit to perform, but deals some really nice damage ( not a lot of knockback, though ).
FINAL SMASH AND STUFF: Blast Burn
Charizard is the only one of the three who can actually use his superduper attack.
I don't actually know what it does.
My guess would be that he creates a massive pillar of fire around himself that deals quite awesome damage AND knockback, for the trade-off of being harder to hit with than the other two.
Aaaand... that is all. Whew.
What do you guys think?
...and please don't lock it? =/
We already have a thread about the trainer. However, this is practically FOUR characters in one, and the trainer himself doesn't actually do anything.
This is an amazingly complex "character".
So I think the Red thread should remain to be about general discussion concerning the character as a whole and the trainer, and how awesome it all is.
This thread is dedicated to the three different Pokemon.
General:
Switching:
Down Special Move: Pokémon change
Good job, Ivysaur! Come back!
The returning Pokémon tags the next Pokémon.
Charizard! I choose you!
They swap out in a set order: Squirtle→Ivysaur→Charizard.
-It seems that switching will take some time. This poses a potential danger to the Pokemon as the opponent can just anticipate the entry of the following Pokemon, charging up a Smash or something like it.
-You can't directly choose which of the two other Pokemon you want to switch to.
-It will probably be impossible to just switch out your Pokemon to protect it from a combo or from falling off the edge.
-It will be interesting to see how Sakurai will balance this, as switching is, unlike with Zelda/Sheik, a necessity:
Stamina:
"They all share the same damage meter, so they don’t recover from damage during Pokémon Change. But they also have another stat, which you might call stamina.
If you keep fighting with the same Pokémon, or if you change them out too often, it’s not so good for the Pokémon.
If you want to be a good Pokémon Trainer, you’ll need to learn these kinds of ins and outs."
The endearing last line aside, this makes it clear that you can't just treat this trio as one fighter and two trashy asides. You will have to use them all. Skipping through Pokemon to get back to your favourite again seems to be a no-no as well.
So how will Stamina work?
Apparently, after staying out for a certain time, or maybe after receiving a certain amount of damage, a Pokemon will start being exhausted. This might be shown by a signal somewhere that it's becoming exhausted, or it just shows in the behaviour of the Pokemon while standing still.
What will it do?
My guess is that the longer you keep an exhausted Pokemon in the battlefield, the more often it will happen that it becomes unresponsive for a second as it catches its breath.
Other possibilities are reduction of stats, which I don't see as ideal for some reason.
The different fighters:
Now this is where it gets interesting.
You have three starters from all three evolutionary phases.
If you went by the game, this would mean that Squirtle ain't got NOTHING on Charizard, who is completely evolved.
That is, unless their levels are radically different.
My guess is that it will be more like in the anime, where being evolved or not just kinda doesn't seem to be as important.
Chances are that all three Pokemon are, disregarding what will happen on the tournament level, balanced.
So what will their different strengths be? Squirtle's strength would usually be defense, but he's obviously lighter than Charizard, right?
Sakurai will have to be creative.
Here's my theories.
Squirtle:
Squirtle will be the balanced one. A combo artist.
He's shown next to Mario, which seems like a good comparison.
Look at the little guy's build.
He's compact and has short limbs. He also has a shell, which he's been known to withdraw into like a certain other turtley guy we know.
I believe that Squirtle's short limbs will allow him to strike with very quick attacks with medium strength, although it probably means he has a rather short reach.
Since Pokemon have rather little to work with in the games, the anime will probably be consulted as well. But it doesn't take an anime, I think, to realize that Squirtle seems rather bouncy. I think he will have decent aerial mobility and a very quick and overall good aerial game for edgeguarding and the like.
So all in all, I see Squirtle as the solid good-for-all Mario-type character who can combo well but usually relies on edgeguarding. He's also bound to have at least one projectile.
Here's some potential B moves for him:
^B: Rapid Spin
Self-explanatory. More vertical than Bowser's, light sideways knockback and a single hit only.
B: Bubble
A weak multi-hit thing somewhat like the Icies Blizzard or maybe Bowser's firebreath, but with somewhat different qualities overall.
>B: Water Gun
A projectile. Being water, this attack should deal little damage, but good knockback.
POTENTIAL FINAL SMASH: Hydro Pump
We don't know whether each of these guys has an own FS, but it's a possibility.
Judging by the anime, Squirtle's Hydro Pump consists of him withdrawing into his shell and spinning while spewing water REALLY hard.
Ivysaur:
Ivysaur will be a unique one. A trickster with great range, some random strong attacks and projectiles. Like Samus or Link!
He's seen running in the screenshot. Note how this is a quadruped being. In terms of mobility, I expect him to have a relatively fast dash on the ground, but to be a lousy jumper. No aerial combat for this one.
However, everyone who plays the games or knows the anime knows what sorts of tricks grass-type Pokemon have.
Bulbasaur, Ivysaur's pre-evolution, is known for Vine Whip, a whip attack with very long range, Razor Leaf, a leaf projectile with great critical hit rate and Solar Beam, a powerful move that requires charging up.
All these are bound to appear in the moveset, and I expect Vine Whip to be quite integral to the moveset as a whole. Thus my prediction that Ivysaur will be known for Marth-like range, albeit with far less power.
And can you say "extended grab"?
So all in all, Ivysaur is apt to be a fighter with a lot of tricks up his sleeve. With grass-type Pokemon, the possibilities are endless. Vine Whips for tilts. Status-affecting specials. Projectiles. And so on.
Possible B-moves:
^B: Sleep Powder
Like Jiggly
who shall be axed!!!!!!11111
Instead of using this to recovery, Ivysaur will use his extended Vine Whip grab to grab the edge by using Z in the air, like Link and Samus.
>B: Razor Leaf
A relatively powerful projectile with a somewhat irregular movement pattern. Also gives him a tiny bit more distance if used in the air, to aid recovery.
B: Leech Seed
Ivysaur will shoot out small seeds at random angles. If an enemy is hit by these, the seeds will pop open and grow into vines that quickly grow across the victim until they disappear soon afterwards. The victim will have 1% of damage dealt at the most three times over a period of about 5 seconds, each time with light stun time that allows Ivysaur to move in for an attack and to interrupt their combos.
Seeds that fall on the ground will still spread and make the ground harder to walk on for a moment.
POTENTIAL FINAL SMASH: Solar Beam
Ivysaur collects sunlight in his bud for moment.
When he's done, the energy shoots out again skywards, then, after a short moment of silence, several beams shoot randomly all over the stage.
Charizard:
What's left to say, Charizard will be the powerhouse in this trio.
Despite being very fast in the games, chances are this will not be the case here.
As seen in the screenshot, Charizard moves on his hind legs on the ground. Since he's not likely to suddenly start sliding, this will make him very immobile on the ground and consequently even slower than Bowser.
However, being a flying dragon, his aerial movement speed might make up for this.
Still, his movements will probably be clumsy and slow, which he'll have to make up for with some brute strength, range and his fiery breath.
And smooth looks. Oooh yeah.
^B: Fly
True to the HM, Charizard will fly upwards into the sky a great distancy... however, this doesn't help his recovery as much as it may seem, as he can't grab the edge while going up.
He slants backwards, then does a looping at the apex of his flight, to strike back down at a great speed. As he comes close to the point where he left off, he starts flying horizontally for a relatively long distance. The energy used in this change of direction after the momentum of the downward dash deals some heavy damage and knockback to anyone stupid enough to not make way for the dragon.
It's a mediocre move for recovery, but being so heavy and fast in the air with several jumps already, that's all he needs.
>B: Flamethrower
Good old flamethrower. Nice for edgeguarding. Unlike Bowsers, Charizard's can be used in the air a little longer if you use his momentum right, which lets you play fighter jet. \o_
B: Heat Wave
Charizard stands in place, stomps on the floor and growls, then makes a wave of heat surround him. Takes a bit to perform, but deals some really nice damage ( not a lot of knockback, though ).
FINAL SMASH AND STUFF: Blast Burn
Charizard is the only one of the three who can actually use his superduper attack.
I don't actually know what it does.
My guess would be that he creates a massive pillar of fire around himself that deals quite awesome damage AND knockback, for the trade-off of being harder to hit with than the other two.
Aaaand... that is all. Whew.
What do you guys think?
...and please don't lock it? =/
