Spruce's Doc Critique -- Update 2/11/09

[SpruceTengu]

Okay, massive refresh, one year later.

D-Pixel came to Conn for the weekend and we spent it knocking the virtual piss out of each other. As promised, there is copious recorded footage. Posted below you'll find the last few recorded this morning. Please comment, and.. yeah. There's no sound, so, I figure you can just listen to whatever you're into.

Doc/Samus matchup vids! Woot!

2/9/09:
Match 1

Match 2

Match 3

Match 4

Match 5

 

[Ronin686]

Don't short hop pill so much. You can't land cancel them...


Also, blue Doc is the best Doc :]

 

[abit_rusty]

Down throw to upsmash on marth at 0-low %s. Good use of pills when recovering, try doing full jump pills to a waveland and then downsmash or grab. Or waveland retreating.

 

[iankobe]

double post...-__-

 

[iankobe]

Don't afraid to approach. Control the tempo of the game. For a Doc-Marth match, if the Doc can't fully control the Marth, pretty much doc will lose. I've had a lot of experience in this match up, and here are my tips for you:

1) Place pills in the right places. Marth can't do anything when he's too far away from you. Approach with Pills-sex kicks and avoid his grabs.

2) Grab more. Doc's game is all grabbing. But you need to grab smart. I see you did some jab-grab which is very good. Try to grab in when he's 0% and Usmash from there. After that you can follow by utilts, or uairs and you'll combo him good if his DI sucks. Grab at 90-110%+ dthrow and follow by doc punch. That's pretty much a guarantee KO. Jab into dsmash works well if the spacing for grabbing isn't there.

3) Ftilt will help. I think I saw you did a lil bit of Ftilts, but do more! Ftilt is a great attack against Marth because it has really long range and give you space to follow after him.

4) Recovery. Know when to tornado and when not to. Recovering is a HUGE game in this match up. if you survive his Fsmash while having 100+ damage, shoot some pills out while in the air. Never leave yourself open. Air dodge works quite well also. If you can tech his Fsmash, abuse it. I survive many of the Fsmsah with techs and have a come back. So practice teching.

5) Interrupt Marth's recovery! Doc's bair is the best at gimping marth! Use it more and use it with mindgames. If Marth's below the edge while recovering, bair while on the edge. This is one of the best moves doc has. (tap C stick back TWICE to do it so that you'll have enough space to recover.)

Hope that helped and good luck.

 

[Aeth]

iankobe has a lot of handfull tips that you can use. Try to grab combo a lot. It will help and be agresive against marth. He has a lot more lag than doc. Just try to think of that. You play pretty good so keep moving on with it

 

[otg]

Stay close when fighting Marth, but be wary of his grabs. Most Marth's are Fsmash happy, so try to bait him into it, and punish his lag. Examples of stuff you can do: Dash in than wavedash back, Dash/wavedash in and spot dodge, Shield-> Wavedash out of shield -> grab/jab/dmash.

 

[SpruceTengu]

Updatebump.

 

[SpruceTengu]

Bump for D-Pixel

 

[D-pixel]

Dammit i hate Pills! 0-66% in like 30 seconds.

 

[Gorn.]

I think it'd be a good idea to change the title of the thread... but I digress.

D-Pix, honestly, frightens me. He is one hell of a fluid-Samus (fluid being the best way I can describe the liquid-like flow he's adopted as his means of movement and attack), and some of the bomb-jumped aerials are nothing short of horrifying (yet, like a train wreck or other things similarly unique and strangely gorgeous, haha, I certainly have to keep watching the carnage).

The Doc is as good as ever, bro. My biggest criticisms would be not so much that your style of play or tech ability was off (because I could never criticize you on tech -- you are far better at quick-style play than I am, without a doubt), but instead that sometimes a few of your moves looked irrational. I would attribute this to the woes of ailment but I think one of D-Pix's strongest suits is that he is, straight up, mentally overwhelming to play against. That being said, though, those moments were few and far in between. I LOVE the fading F-air, and your aerial game is solid.

Watching the fifth match, I have to say that your recovery is pretty **** remarkable (especially for Doc). The suicide F-air kill is awarded cool points. I have to say that the fifth game definitely looks to be your best -- picking up your sea legs, so to speak. My only minor criticisms is that sometimes you whip out unnecessary follow-up moves that may work on fast fallers, but D-Pix has DI'd out of. The ones that mostly come to mind are the running attack -> F-smash (opposite direction) and early use of the Down-B for recovery (not that it isn't useful, I just worry that he might still have time to strike you after you use it and make it moot). Those two small points aside, I can sincerely say that D-Pix isn't the only one of the two of you that plays fluidly -- your SHFFL'd aerial game is dirt sauce and you seem to be wavedashing quite a bit more than I remember.

We definitely gotta play soon, hah.

 

[eighteenspikes]

I just got back from a really busy night so I'll watch the rest later, but I saw game 1 and here are some napkin notes

- learn when to use dsmash, and use it a lot more often, game 1 at 3:11 was the biggest example, samus was ripe for a dsmash and you did a retreating dair for some reason?
- same with fair, this is how samus should die every time: multiple bairs gimp, caping grapple, caping upb into appropriate smash (probably almost always dsmash), or random fair/dsmash at high %. if samus is dying off the side to a bthrow youre letting her live too long. nair kind of works but its eh.
- I guess just work on punishing in general... you utilted her at 1:16... fsmash/fair/dsmash! you pilled her whiffed grab at 2:12, fair that *****!
- i liked pretty much all of your ftilts, nice
- mostly good use of pills too, but you go a little overboard sometimes (for my tastes, at least.... whatever works, works)
- quit doing down b as soon as you get hit off, its I guess better if you're going for SUPER MAXIMUM DISTANCE but otherwise it gives your opponent more time to set up an edgeguard, and at the same time you blow your only real stall move.
- be more alert when samus has her shot charged, and look for common "open" situations that provoke samus to fire it (and get ready to dodge/shield, or cape if youre ballsy cause you're a sitting duck if you whiff a cape at close range). i literally called when all 3 shots were gonna be fired and it made me sad to see you get hit by them

Well that's it for now. I hope these don't sound too negative, I'm just trying to give general helpful critique, I'll watch the rest tomorrow sometime. Keep reppin' Blue

 

[SpruceTengu]

Haha negative? Nah, just straightand honest. Thanks man, and yeah, to be honest I was thinking alot of the same things. The down-B thing i had never really considered; it's use was always more for height-gain for me, though I clearly have alot to learn. With the use of Fair--hell yes. My kobe game was WAY off this weekend, DPIX and I both knew it. I was much too jittery and by no means aggressive enough with all that. Bairs, too.

Could you possibly get more specific on when I should be throwing Dsmash and such? I used it mostly out of SHFFL'd upair, but I got the feeling I could be exploiting it a bit better.

Heh, again, no worries on negativity. You're still mah hero. : P