Spirited Away - Game Thread - Game Over!

[FateShirou]

Darkpit54
lay it on me
whats ur vote list looking like
how do you feel about laserguy

 

[Darkpit54]

it's feeding my paranoia of a swiss/laser/darkpit

hoo boy you're gonna have a field day with this post, sorry in advance ig

Oh I'm Kamji the Forge Spirit btw and I swap targets, informed busdriver variant as the targeters are informed that their selection was modified

First point I'll make is I'm almost positive that if either Laser or Frozen are scum, the other is not. Their views on powers seem too drastically opposed, as they probably should be. Frozen's role seems to me to be the most potentially dangerous one we have, and if he were scum he would probably want to keep it a secret if possible. Both are clearly logical enough and seemed to have thought over the utility of abilities enough that they definitely would have discussed this as scummates, and I'm fairly sure they would have agreed that it is much more powerful concealed, and I doubt a mass claim would have been suggested. Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but this part at least I feel pretty sure of.

With that being said, I think I like Laser this game. Open communication among town always feels very beneficial to me, and he seems to be trying to push for it, especially with roles and their use.

Anyway, current concept for the scumteam is Frozen, Sabrar, and (maybe?) Fate

I like bessie, Maven, Swiss and FrozenFlame. So my vote is 75% correct.

I'm still trying to evaluate whether purposefully sanctioning a demon might be a valid play but it requires the D1 flip.

darkpit I'm pretty sure sabrar was trying to get a read on swiss based on his speculation re: sabrar's strategical reasoning and/or swiss's eventual response if and when sabrar chose to actually explain his position

This interaction is especially odd to me because nothing in his post was directed at or mentioned swiss, and none of the later responses seemed to imply swiss was who he wanted to answer. Further, swiss was one of the ones in Sab's "town" list. Why would he prefer to hear from him over someone he clearly didn't have as positive of an opinion on yet? This logic puzzles me. I was too frazzled at thinking I'd messed something up at first, but either you're just really intent on getting swiss out or you two discussed it beforehand that this was the intention. Feels like it could be a slip.

Anyway, way beyond this, Frozen just feels generally sketchy? Telling Fate to keep his cards close to his chest without acknowledging the benefits that could come from discussing what his plans are, weird read on maven, and I just overall can't really get a handle on him. Xivii probably thanks I'm insane with all the rambling in my notes chat trying to figure him out lol. Tomorrow morning when I'm less tired and delusional I'll probably try to go find some more actual quotes of why I feel this way. Probably largely gut and "bad vibes" on top of everything else at the moment.

As for Sabrar, I keep turning over in my head if suggesting sanctioning a demon is too bold for a demon to do, or if it's exactly what one might do as it's likely to benefit them, and many are likely to see it as being too bold for them to do? I think it would be easy enough for a demon to sorta drop the bait in the one little sentence and see if anyone bites. But also seems to just be his style to theorize potential strategies like that from what everyone else has said, so maybe town him would do it too. Frozen's interaction with him afterwards was odd tho, and overall hasn't contributed too much yet to make me think he's town? Can anyone tell me ab his usual play, and if you think he would bring the topic up as a demon, regardless of if you think he is a demon or not?

I think I remember thinking something was off with both of their reads, too, but I'll need to go back and check.

I have the final member of the scumteam rn as Fate, largely because of his position in camparison to the others? Seems to be in a good place to potentially get "demon sanctioned" maybe, well distanced from Frozen but not the immediate target, and similar things like that. Opposite reads on me and Laser put them in a good position to not be grouped together. Obviously less sure on this one, but think it's a possibility. Especially because I've been thinking this for a while now:

I think you’re smarter than people are giving you credit for buddy

and because there's something else I've been wondering about

 

[Darkpit54]

i have forum mafia experience, dont remember my record from my MAL days but post MAL i am
1-0 as scum
1-3 as town

i never played in this kind of set up

FateShirou can you tell me about your MAL days? How long were you on there, a few years or just a couple games? How good would you say you are?

 

[Darkpit54]

Anyway, attempt number 1 at a readlist:

Spirits
Laser: See above. Good vibes? Helpful, genuine tone. Seems interested in boosting and continuing communication among town.
Swiss: Tone seems super natural. Kinda stresses me out but doesn't seem scummy. One of the main people driving conversation, which is always a plus
Bessie: More of a townlean than full on town? Helpful insight, and overall seems good intentioned. Maybe I'm just being disarmed by the dogs
Maven: Complete null. There's really almost nothing at all to work with here except the assertions by some others that he's definitely town. Gut tells me that scum wouldn't say that about a mate so early on? Opinion on him will probably be more made after toDay's flip or (ideally) more posts from him.
Somi: He stated that Sabrar's slot made "no impact on him". Ironically exactly how I feel about him. Probably due for a reread, even though that's what I just did. Overall meh?
Fate: Relationships with those I find scummy work well? Could be trying to pocket me? Plus just kinda scares me that I think everyone may be passing him off as a newbie when he seems to be probably pretty skilled. Needs more evaluation
Sabrar: See above post. May change if I read a previous game and find something similar to the sanctioning demons talk as town, but this is it for now
Frozen: See above post
Demons

 

[Darkpit54]

Probably should've bolded the names. Sorry guys. Anyway, about banishing and sanctioning.

Think I've probably made it pretty clear that as of now I'd banish Frozen, I think rn on top of everything else he'd also provide the most info out of the players that I find the sketchiest, which is always a plus in my book.

Sanctioning is much more complicated. I feel like the ideal strategy with sanctioning is a player that seems to be townie, but isn't necessarily the most helpful when scumhunting. We win the game by banishing demons, so I think we could benefit by leaving our best townies here and just sanctioning those we believe aren't demons. With this being said, I wish there was enough from Maven for me to believe he's town as much as some do, as he would be pretty much ideal for it. However, with things as they are right now, I would probably choose Bessie? I'm fairly confident they're town, but wouldn't be losing quite as much of a conversation driver as if we sanctioned Laser for example.

bessie I realized I forgot to ask earlier, but what pronouns should I use?

also, if you don't mind me asking, why did you choose to highlight sabrar? although I understand if you'd rather keep that secret for rn

 

[Darkpit54]

And with that, good night all. I hope any of that made sense lol

 

[Sabrar]

I'm just going to go with soul read for now. I will give me more detail after she's had the chance to post more and I can better gauge whether my intuition is correct.

Could you do this now please?

 

[bessie]

i mean technically if the votes reset, isnt that a change?
honestly you do make a good point about this
how does their role work, do votes get reset to 0, or?

I guess your interpretation that a reset is a change is valid. However, you being suspicious of Swiss for having this power is not, because the mod stated that the roles were randomized to the alignments.
[Note that I am making an assumption that this is not a ******* game and that everything in the OP is in modvoice and therefore true, but I have no reason to suspect otherwise.]

As for Sabrar, I keep turning over in my head if suggesting sanctioning a demon is too bold for a demon to do, or if it's exactly what one might do as it's likely to benefit them, and many are likely to see it as being too bold for them to do? I think it would be easy enough for a demon to sorta drop the bait in the one little sentence and see if anyone bites. But also seems to just be his style to theorize potential strategies like that from what everyone else has said, so maybe town him would do it too. Frozen's interaction with him afterwards was odd tho, and overall hasn't contributed too much yet to make me think he's town? Can anyone tell me ab his usual play, and if you think he would bring the topic up as a demon, regardless of if you think he is a demon or not?

It is Sabrar’s usual playstyle to try to find the most logical strategy to guarantee a win utilizing game mechanics and power roles, even if it is somewhat counterintuitive. I had the perfect example to link and just searched the Wayback Machine for it but alas it is not archived (X Men Mafia). I don’t have an example from this forum because most of the games here tend to be low in power roles, and have normal game mechanics. So I can see Sabrar theorizing about this in thread as any alignment.

bessie bessie I realized I forgot to ask earlier, but what pronouns should I use?

also, if you don't mind me asking, why did you choose to highlight sabrar? although I understand if you'd rather keep that secret for rn

She/her.

I picked Sabrar just because, and picking Sabrar was not in any way an alignment read. I have more gifts of equal or less utility so I didn’t see any reason not to use one for fun.

However, with things as they are right now, I would probably choose Bessie? I'm fairly confident they're town, but wouldn't be losing quite as much of a conversation driver as if we sanctioned Laser for example.

 

[Sabrar]

You didn't tell me you would be staying up waiting for me....

 

[Sabrar]

Why didn't you comment on LaserGuy's 'soul-read'?

 

[Sabrar]

Also what brought you to claim? I thought we could form an alliance against all the sheeps.

 

[bessie]

What am I supposed to comment on, a read with nothing to back it up? I guess I could have posted the pic of my dog glaring suspiciously. You know I do not put much stock in soul reads to begin with.

I claimed because.

 

[Swiss]

I like #205 re: the sanction thoughts

Catching up later

 

[Swiss]

@mod can we prod maven

 

[Xivii]

@mod can we prod maven

Maven was prodded ~13 hours ago. If he doesn't respond within 11 hours, a replacement will be sought.

 

[somitomi]

Quickfire responses

#165 Dislike Somi again. This is what, 3rd game with me? Yet acts me like suggesting an unreasonable lynch out of nowhere is uncharacteristic.

I don't have to like the suggestion you made just because it's something you normally do. Where did you even get the idea that I think it's uncharacteristic of you?

Now that it has been brought to your attention, what do you think of Sabrar?

I'll have to actually reread him. At this point he gets a generic "nulltown" for not doing anything out of the ordinary.

No i have not
i did not consider that until you brought it up

Wait, really?

This doesn’t make any sense. Immediately above this, you say “I wasn't, in fact in my initial post on the topic I basically ruled out scum claiming a made up power.” So how can you say you ruled out scum false claiming a power in your initial post, but later that you didn’t think of it before?

When I made the post that started this whole discussion, I assumed (without even thinking) that scum would claim their actual power. That's what I described as "basically ruling out", because on some subconscious level I discarded the other option. When Sabrar called me out on that assumption I had to stop and think about the reason I made it (and whether it was reasonable), because I genuinely haven't thought about it before.

Sanctioning is much more complicated. I feel like the ideal strategy with sanctioning is a player that seems to be townie, but isn't necessarily the most helpful when scumhunting. We win the game by banishing demons, so I think we could benefit by leaving our best townies here and just sanctioning those we believe aren't demons. With this being said, I wish there was enough from Maven for me to believe he's town as much as some do, as he would be pretty much ideal for it. However, with things as they are right now, I would probably choose Bessie? I'm fairly confident they're town, but wouldn't be losing quite as much of a conversation driver as if we sanctioned Laser for example.

I mostly like this idea, but it occured to me that Sanctioned players will have to vote if it comes to a Judgement Day, so we might need some scumhunting power there as well.

 

[FateShirou]

FateShirou can you tell me about your MAL days? How long were you on there, a few years or just a couple games? How good would you say you are?

Scum

Game v25: Akatsuki no Yona Mafia | Game End

myanimelist.net

i was pretty obvi here lul
i think town vig took me out in night
had to buss d1
lol

Game v23: Assassination Classroom Mafia | Game Over [Koro Sensei Wins]

Brought to you by Shinichi & Jack Phases: Vote Counts: Rules: Section I: General Game Guidelines You are not allowed to use any external communications (PM/IRC/etc.) to discuss the game, unless they are provided to you by the host and you are allowed to use them. Everything must be said in this...

myanimelist.net

town
terrible game for me, i had a strong role and missused it

 

[FateShirou]

Plus just kinda scares me that I think everyone may be passing him off as a newbie when he seems to be probably pretty skilled. Needs more evaluation

I have been pretty transparent about the amount of forum mafia games i have played and my experience level :/

Wait, really?

think about it
the only time a sanctioned player could work is during judgment day and only if they are spirit-aligned

 

[FateShirou]

vote not work, josh dang it

oh yea in those games on MAL
my name was Nightwing

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy would you characterize your play as passive so far this phase?

Not especially, no. I haven't gone full aggro on anyone, certainly, but I feel I have been pretty active and pretty upfront with my opinions of people. Can you talk a bit more about your read on me?

I'm also interested in your opinion if Darkpit's 202-205.

Could you do this now please?

I will write up my reads list a bit later today and will talk about bessie.

 

[Darkpit54]

It is Sabrar’s usual playstyle to try to find the most logical strategy to guarantee a win utilizing game mechanics and power roles, even if it is somewhat counterintuitive. I had the perfect example to link and just searched the Wayback Machine for it but alas it is not archived (X Men Mafia). I don’t have an example from this forum because most of the games here tend to be low in power roles, and have normal game mechanics. So I can see Sabrar theorizing about this in thread as any alignment.

She/her.

I picked Sabrar just because, and picking Sabrar was not in any way an alignment read. I have more gifts of equal or less utility so I didn’t see any reason not to use one for fun.

good to know, thanks

I mostly like this idea, but it occured to me that Sanctioned players will have to vote if it comes to a Judgement Day, so we might need some scumhunting power there as well.

Agree, although ideally this won't matter. This is another reason I think Bessie may be a good choice though, I feel like she's doing pretty well at scumreading without needing to ask direct questions

 

[Swiss]

There's definitely a 'type' of player that is good to sanction - analytical careful etc

But first and foremost - people that get their reads right.

 

[LaserGuy]

Reads:

FrozenFlame

From the very start of the game, I feel FrozenFlame has been very focused on solving. He's most consistently been presenting his positions on what he thinks of people, and has been asking good questions.

I went back and had a peek at Frozen's recent scumgames (Vanilla and TIL) and confirmed my suspicion that FrozenFlame's reads were a lot, hmmm, muddier? in those games. His thoughts were not as clear, and especially in Vanilla he spent a lot of time in the weeds arguing about claim mechanics, etc. whereas here he was not interested in this at all. In both of those games he was also not really thinking about a team solve or interactions between players and was more interested in just yeeting some lurker slots, whereas here he's come up with an early, if incorrect, idea for a solve, which I think reflects well on him. Comfortable Town.


Darkpit

The early claim from Darkpit felt natural and spontaneous and I get a strong townie vibe from it. Darkpit's content up to the most recent page is pretty light, though I feel his tone is fairly townie.

I really like his 202-205. I feel like there is a genuine process here and he's trying to work things out very well and his thoughts are easy to follow. I like his nuanced position on sanctioning. There's also one or two bits in here, like this line:

Xivii probably thanks I'm insane with all the rambling in my notes chat trying to figure him out lol.

that I feel are just really unlikely to ever come from scum. Comfortable Town.


Somitomi

Content is fairly light, but that's NAI for somi and it's still more to work with than his last game. His tone comes across as very comfortable, relaxed this game, which I like. Need to see more detailed reads for him to get a better sense of his position, but he's a Town lean.


FateShirou

Kind of ambivalent about this slot. I like the aggressive attitude and he's been putting out some reads, but the reasoning on them is weird and illogical to me. This might be some newbie weirdness but apparently he's played a handful of games so I feel like he probably should be passed this? My gut is Town but I think if I'm wrong about anyone it's most likely here. NullTown.


Maven

Maven is null like he always is. I'm assuming he will be replaced at this point.


Swiss

I don't like the fact that Swiss claimed he was going to suggest a mass claim in #8, but didn't actually engage in it until #101 after I prompted him, by which point the majority of players had already claimed spontaneously. Generally, my feeling is that townies tend to claim early and often and the spontaneous claimants are townie, whereas scum tend to reflexively feel the need to disguise their claims and are more uncomfortable with early claims. So I think Swiss' hesitation here is a bad look.

I feel like Swiss posting is a little more scatterbrained this game than his previous games. I find that his thoughts are a little more opaque, difficult to follow, which I don't like. Leaning scum


Sabrar

The bulk of his content this game has been focused on claim mechanics, and given that by the point he was really making any points on this, most of the players had already claimed, I feel like he's been spending a lot of time spinning his wheels and looking busy without really doing anything. As I commented in #142 and #144, while Sabrar can be quiet/lurky on D1 , his questions that he asks are usually very astute and show a thought process that I'm not seeing here.

I was thinking for awhile that the scumteam was going to be something like Sabrar/bessie/Swiss, but recent interactions make me think that Sabrar/bessie are probably not aligned. Leaning scum


bessie

bessie has a quite noticeable difference in tone between her Town and scum games. Her tone is usually quite lighthearted and exuberant and I don't get the same vibe for her in this game as in our two previous games where she was Town.

bessie's content this game is also quite fluffy. bessie's post count is always low, but she usually makes up for it by posting detailed, high-quality analysis. In this game, her posts are much more explanatory. She isn't trying to develop reads or push people, she's mostly just providing information. Take this post, for example. She: explains that Swiss' role is not suspicious because roles are randomized. Explains how Sabrar thinks about mechanics. Explains her reason for coloring Sabrar's vote (sort of). Posts a picture of her puppy. That's it. That's 1/5 of her whole game content. Her other posting for this game is similar: information over analysis. Likely scum.

Town
LaserGuy
FrozenFlame
Darkpit
somitomi
Fate
Maven === NULL
Swiss
Sabrar
bessie
Scum

##bessie

 

[LaserGuy]

This is another reason I think Bessie may be a good choice though, I feel like she's doing pretty well at scumreading without needing to ask direct questions

Where are you getting this impression from?

 

[FateShirou]

we should get through this banish phrase first dark pit amiibo

Kind of ambivalent about this slot. I like the aggressive attitude and he's been putting out some reads, but the reasoning on them is weird and illogical to me. This might be some newbie weirdness but apparently he's played a handful of games so I feel like he probably should be passed this? My gut is Town but I think if I'm wrong about anyone it's most likely here. NullTown.

why do you guys keep calling me a newbie
i played like 10 games already
im new to this board
jeez

 

[Darkpit54]

Where are you getting this impression from?

Honestly mostly her vibes, she seems

analytical careful etc

I really need to look back at her previous games, as well as those for sab.

we should get through this banish phrase first dark pit amiibo

Very much agree but I was asked a question so I'm going to answer it lol, plus I think it would be beneficial to at least be considering our plan going forward into the next phase

 

[Swiss]

No daily catch up from me - work too manic sorry guys - 12 hour days if I’m lucky

Will get one out tomorrow

 

[Swiss]

And remove Laser sus v2

New wagon

##bessie

 

[Swiss]

Though I am checking thread tonight at home so you can @ me and I’ll respond to easy posts

 

[Darkpit54]

recent interactions make me think that Sabrar/bessie are probably not aligned

If you had to guess right now, who would you say they might be aligned with? Is it that if bessie isn't scum you think sab probably is?

 

[Sabrar]

Take this post, for example.

Take this post and give it the same scrutiny.

 

[LaserGuy]

Take this post and give it the same scrutiny.

Um okay. This post contains more useful content than basically everything she has posted in this game so far. She talks with you about your reads. She talks about her evaluation of Swiss' early vig claim. She gives both helpful feedback to Tattertot but also notes that he is acting scummy. She questions my naked vote on somi. There are also two other points that she alludes to that she's thinking about Tattertot, but I'm not sure if it was obvious at the time of posting.

There is some other stuff that is fluff, there is some stuff that is explanatory, but the density of useful content in there is much higher.

 

[LaserGuy]

If you had to guess right now, who would you say they might be aligned with? Is it that if bessie isn't scum you think sab probably is?

I think there's a good chance of at least one scum in Sabrar/bessie. There are some interactions between Sabrar/Swiss that I think may be scum indicative; the interactions between Sabrar/bessie that are kind of a mixed bag. I haven't had any pings outside of that group except maybe between you and bessie.

 

[Sabrar]

That was a bessie joke, and like usual no one got it. I always play town, perhaps just not as well when I’m scum.

Explaining a joke, fluff in the sense that it does not drive the game forward.

Generally speaking I disagree with this statement. There have been games in the past where I had reads by the first page or two. And I think so have you. However, in this particular game I didn’t have many early pings.

General statement, does not drive the game forward. This is not the same as "She talks with you about your reads"

I used to pick a tunnel on page one all the time. Am I getting too old for this?

Fluff.

I’d rather you didn’t I like your dog.

Fluff.

You being annoyed by this made me laugh for a solid minute. Oh, and I have been giving it some serious thought. But I don’t expect you to comprehend anything that may be going on in my little puppy mind.

Fluff plus a comment that she's thinking about a specific issue. However lacking specifics it does not contain any content that could be used to read her or that would dive the game forward.

This is an interesting observation re Heury.

A comment that she's thinking about a specific issue. However lacking specifics it does not contain any content that could be used to read her or that would dive the game forward.

View attachment 307674

Fluff.

Yes Sabrar is annoyingly obstinate as any alignment.

Fluff.

Doctor can block. Also a vig (or a mafia pretending to be vig) might hit town.

Mechanic-talk, NAI, falls into the same category as "explains that Swiss' role is not suspicious because roles are randomized."

Yeah I was thinking about two reasons for claiming vig on page 1, and I didn’t think it was good for town to be discussing the power distribution that early in the game. This is also why I didn’t go after Heury for post #15.

A comment that she's thinking about a specific issue. However lacking specifics it does not contain any content that could be used to read her or that would dive the game forward.

Because I usually do.

Reply to a query, does not drive the game forward.

I’m going to treat this as a newbie comment even though you claim to have some experience, but this is a scummy position to take. If you are town, the best thing you can do to help town is to contribute to the conversation. You don’t need to worry about being right or wrong. We’re all wrong more often than not. You should talk things out, and you’re allowed to change your mind. The scummiest think you can do is sit back and watch, and let others present opinions you can use as your own.

Helping a perceived newbie, NAI, does not drive the game forward.

Hmm. Reasons? You know that I am always suspicious of a vote without reasons.

Questioning a vote. The single piece that you can characterize as driving the game forward.

You may be right with your soul-read but I think you are grossly misrepresenting bessie's content either because you're tunneling or deliberately.

 

[LaserGuy]

You may be right with your soul-read but I think you are grossly misrepresenting bessie's content either because you're tunneling or deliberately.

This has been a very interesting reaction from you. Your defense of bessie is noted.

As I said, the post I selected was representative, not exhaustive. You could pick any of her posts from this game and you would reach the same conclusion. You could not do the same in NewD3 or Wam's game.

 

[Sabrar]

As I said, the post I selected was representative, not exhaustive. You could pick any of her posts from this game and you would reach the same conclusion. You could not do the same in NewD3 or Wam's game.

Could be. However you should have brought this up instead of misrepresenting the linked post to fit your agenda.

 

[Xivii]

Vote Count [B1-4]

Swiss | 2/5 | FrozenFlame, FateShirou
bessie |2/5| Swiss, LaserGuy
LaserGuy | 1/5 | Sabrar

Not Voting: bessie, Maven, Darkpit, somitomi

Spoiler: History

sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi

som, unv
fro, swi

swi, las - already voting
shi, swi

las, bes
swi, bes

With 9 players in Limbo, it takes 5 to banish.
The deadline for Banish 1 is Friday, the 21st at 11:59 pm MT.

 

[LaserGuy]

Could be. However you should have brought this up instead of misrepresenting the linked post to fit your agenda.

Not every post, nor every comment needs to drive the game forward. You are not looking at the same things that I am.

General statement, does not drive the game forward. This is not the same as "She talks with you about your reads"

This is an opinion about the state of the game. It does not help drive the game forward, but it does help us understand what bessie is thinking about and why she is holding the position that she does. She is also stating an opinion about you, that you do indeed sometimes have reads early in the game and your suggestion that you do not is perhaps not entirely accurate. I don't care about whether a statement is general or specific. I care about whether the statement expresses some belief or opinion about something important. Or, cake points.

Helping a perceived newbie, NAI, does not drive the game forward.

She gives two useful points of information in this comment. She evaluates Tattertot's content is scummy. She is choosing not to count it against him too much because he is a newbie (though ultimately she does).

 

[Swiss]

Damn just realised it looks like I’ve tried to make a Bessie wagon to get heat off my back.

Zen be more careful with when you do those vote counts next time

 

[Swiss]

Laser what is your Sabrar read?