Spin Lock

[Zenthewanderer]

This may have already been discovered, but after looking around I failed to see a post talking about it. Well, if everyone already knows about this and its simply under a different name, I'm sorry for missing it.

For those familiar with the Jab Lock, I'm sure you can already figure out what I'm reporting. While fighting on Green Hill Zone (Ironic, right? Sonic's stage.) this peculiar thing happened. I was up against a Bowser player (a friend of mine). I used the Spin Dash (Down-B version), after he missed a tech, and was able to lock him in the same fashion as the 'Jab Lock'. It lasted for the 2 seconds that my spin remained charged and looked pretty cool- for what that's worth.

The match was over 3 minutes so I couldn't save it and I haven't been able to do it again. If this is a known AT, how is this done? If not, well, I suppose I'll keep working on it. We were on the right side of the stage and uphill of me. I can only imagine it has to do with Bowser being a large target and the properties of Sonic's Spin Dash, but beyond that I'm not sure why I've never locked someone that way before. This is the first time I've encountered such a strange anomaly and felt the need to post it- so, like I said, my apologies if this is already well-known.

Please, enlighten me.

 

[~TBS~]

well, only on GHZ, Sonic's spindash has this weird property added to it. When you spindash all the way to the uphill side and press the A button, the spin dash "cancels" into the A attack. So, basically you spindash>hit bowser> pressed A> cancel into a jab.

This is kinda weird, and can be pretty weird the first time you do it. I was experimenting with this a week ago, and reproduced the same thing you did. But, IMO i dont think the character matters. If the spindash connects and you are at the uphill part, the enemy will be hit to the ground. This is when you cancelled the spindash into a jab for a jab lock. I dunno if this is well known, but its pretty darn fun. The time frame is pretty short AFAIK, but it is cool when you can do it.

 

[Trillion]

well, only on GHZ, Sonic's spindash has this weird property added to it. When you spindash all the way to the uphill side and press the A button, the spin dash "cancels" into the A attack. So, basically you spindash>hit bowser> pressed A> cancel into a jab.

This is kinda weird, and can be pretty weird the first time you do it. I was experimenting with this a week ago, and reproduced the same thing you did. But, IMO i dont think the character matters. If the spindash connects and you are at the uphill part, the enemy will be hit to the ground. This is when you cancelled the spindash into a jab for a jab lock. I dunno if this is well known, but its pretty darn fun. The time frame is pretty short AFAIK, but it is cool when you can do it.

I don't believe that this is what Zen is describing. I think what he is saying is that he was able to turn in the spindash and hit Bowser again before he could get up like spinning into him multiple times making a SPIN lock, not a JAB lock. He said it only lasted until the spin ended. So, I find this somewhat interesting. I'm curious how many times you were able to hit him with it. I'm assuming now more than 3 total hits. Still, this could be around what, 20% damage? Not too shabby and if you could spin through him in the lock a few times and then cancel it to a jab lock as SM5 is reffering to, then you could get a more damaging lock out of it overall. Either way, I think this is some nice info to know even if it is most likely going to be rather rare to occur and somewhat situational.

 

[Kinzer]

One, Spin Charge is Sonic's Down-B, you're referring to his rolling animation the Spin Dash Roll.

Second, is there by some chance that by some chance that SDR can trip people? If not then I suppose going uphill in ball form had made it so that the attack had just enough knockback to cause an unteched... how do I refer to as so... crash landing, anyway I can imagine these two happening next:

Either you keep rolling uphill with Bowser right there

OR

You roll back down the hill, and start to gain velocity I suppose.

I would like to know though, for curiosity reasons. Is it that by some chance a slow SDR has locking properties?

 

[Camalange]

Sounds like ASC.

GHZ's slope has weird wall properties, so maybe while Sonic was spindashing and hitting Bowser, while going up(?) [I think I read that right] making Sonic "fall off the wall", go into ASC, then get back on the slope and over again, making the lock.

It's probably more like SCROD, but without a moving platform.

 

[aeghrur]

Iirc, SDR slowed down enough becomes an ASC where you can shield cancel it or continues, something like that. ASC can do multiple hits. 2+2=22 :D

 

[Zenthewanderer]

Ah, 'Spin Charge'. My mistake. Yes, let me explain a bit better since there's some confusion.

It was not a case where the dash was canceled into a jab combo. Bowser was doing the typical Jab Lock bounce while being hit solely by Sonic's spinning body. I spent some time trying to do it again and manage to semi do it. The thing was, I did it while going in reverse this time. After hitting Bowser going uphill (and failing to Spin Lock), I turned Sonic around and did it for a second going downhill.

I haven't tried with other characters- only Bowser. It could work for others, but I don't know. I tried it training mode for a while before it occured to me that the Spin Lock could depend partly on it being dimished (stall moves.) After going back to a normal Brawl, the above instance took place . Either luck was on my side, or it was a case of being diminished. Honestly, I'm not sure. I'll try to save a replay of it at some point- while I have a youtube account I have no video capturing devices. My apologies.

 

[Trillion]

Well, Zen, I have a video capture device, so if you get a replay of it, you can send it to me and I will get it for you and upload it.

 

[Zenthewanderer]

Cool. Thanks Magnificent. I'll do my best to replicate it for a match.

Oh! Damage-wise. I forgot to answer this. I don't remember the exact amount, but I was surprised by how his percentage shot up. It went from 40-ish to 80-something. It was anywhere from 35% to 45%. Not bad, huh? It would be an impressive, though situational technique if I/we can figure it out. Although it'll probably just end up being a rare phenomenon...

Its possible I'm giving over too much in my estimate- but I'm not sure. A more conservative estimate would be somewhere around 30%. The second time I pulled it off I remember it only did about 10% or so. Either the first was a glitchy fluke or my mind is playing tricks on me. The thing is, I remember seeing a video that reminds me of the spin lock in terms of the damage jump. It was called 'Uber U-Turn' or something to that effect.

 

[Kinzer]

LOL!

Good stuff Sonic boards.

Yes you probably heard of or seen something called the SpinDash Uber-Turnaround (or SDRUT), but the mechanics work different. Your opponent has to be on the edge, and you have to hit with a direct SDR. Once that happens the shield pushback should knock them offstage and in normal circumstances they will ledgesnap after sometime, but you turn around somewhere before that and you get like a ASC/SDR hit.

Little to no relation to a lock non whatsoever.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

well, only on GHZ, Sonic's spindash has this weird property added to it. When you spindash all the way to the uphill side and press the A button, the spin dash "cancels" into the A attack. So, basically you spindash>hit bowser> pressed A> cancel into a jab.

Just wanted to mention that canceling a spin dash roll is possible on any sort of slope. Not just on GHZ. Also, you aren't limited to just jabs. Most people should know this already, though. Just mentioning for anyone who didn't know.

 

[aeghrur]

I still stick to the ASC multi-hit theory until I get a video that says otherwise. =/

 

[Kinzer]

Yo PD, if it really is possible can you tell me where else it works besides YI:M (maybe) and GHZ?

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Yo PD, if it really is possible can you tell me where else it works besides YI:M (maybe) and GHZ?

They seem to be pretty steep slopes. First stage that comes to mind is PS1. I think there's 1 or 2 spots it works on there. 1 is definitely on the mountain part of the stage. Another stage is RC. When the boat angles upwards, you can cancel the spin at the tip of it. If I'm not lazy later, I'll go and look for some more.

Edit: Works on Pirate Ship too when the ship angles upwards. So, it's probably just any steep slope.

 

[~TBS~]

They seem to be pretty steep slopes. First stage that comes to mind is PS1. I think there's 1 or 2 spots it works on there. 1 is definitely on the mountain part of the stage. Another stage is RC. When the boat angles upwards, you can cancel the spin at the tip of it. If I'm not lazy later, I'll go and look for some more.

d'oh, thanks for the clean up PD. where you been?

So, this can work on tourney viable stages? Yeah, i'll experiment also.

 

[Kinzer]

He's been up in the Steak Break Room.

That's too bad though PD, are there no stages that have that permanent design that allows Sonic to cancel his SDR?

If not, then you can include Pirate Ship when it has hit that rock.

 

[Tenki]

Yoshi's isle when the level is tilted upwards, single charge SC/SD. Rainbow Cruise pendulum platform.

Anyway, this sounds more like a case of too much spindash and move decay + most likely a low charge spindash, all together. =/

 

[aeghrur]

Yoshi's isle when the level is tilted upwards, single charge SC/SD. Rainbow Cruise pendulum platform.

Anyway, this sounds more like a case of too much spindash and move decay + most likely a low charge spindash, all together. =/

??? Mind explaining? I mean, doesn't an SDR go into an ASC if it's slowed enough?

 

[infomon]

Iirc, SDR slowed down enough becomes an ASC where you can shield cancel it or continues, something like that. ASC can do multiple hits. 2+2=22 :D

Yes, this. From the description, I'm almost sure of it.

It sounds like another way of pulling off a SCROD (aka SCROO). I'll try and experiment with this myself, when I'm able (which is next week -- yay finally I'll be able to bwawl again!).

Both hitting the enemy and moving up the slope can slow down the SDR enough that it becomes a rolling ASC. We don't know all the properties of the rASC, but I wonder if a slope could indeed convince it to become an SDR which could transform it again into a rASC.... or alternatively, hitting the enemy (or simply the hill at just the right time) slowed the SDR into a rASC which then did an ASC multi-hit combo because the enemy was SDI'ing into the ground and in front of the ASC. Perhaps some combination of both of those phenomena.

I don't know how the SDR didn't run out of speed, though. Tenki should know the details, because I might not have them right... SD or SC, upon release, has a 2-second timer until the move stops. However, if it gets slowed down (either as an SDR or I guess rASC) the "timer" gets decreased, right? Or is there just some speed at which the move stops early if it's going too slow?

There is much we still don't know about our side-B and down-B lol. Or at least, that I don't know.

Good find, I think!

 

[Kinzer]

What about rASC/SDR having Jab-locking properties if this guy is not bluffing (which I do believe he is not)?

Is that really just a part of the speed it's going at? What about the amount of decay? Could it both?

It's nice to know that you can score multiple hits off a rASC, but if it could lock people it would be more epic/lulzy.

 

[Tenki]

Doesn't slow SDR/ground ASC (the one that you can shield cancel) have like, no hitbox?

..maybe?

I don't know, try setting a bunch of grenades/landmines on the floor with Snake(s) and do a slow SDR through them, see what happens >.>;

 

[Kinzer]

Doesn't Snake's grenades fall on an incline while mines act on hurtbox not hitbox?

 

[Tenki]

oh that's right,ish

grenades trigger from you hitting them, and mines just act on proximity.

>__>;

iono, I'll mess around with this later this week and get things straightened out if noone else does.

Finals week <3

 

[infomon]

Doesn't slow SDR/ground ASC (the one that you can shield cancel) have like, no hitbox?

Slow SDR will go down to as low as a 4% hitbox (unstaled; actually I'm not sure if staling can bring it lower than that, but it probably can). However, ASC.... hmm. I'm not sure how rolling ASC works; like I'm not sure it should be a hitbox at all unless you're pushing forward? Maybe after connecting with it once then pushing forward can allow it to be at a speed where it can actually cause more ASC damage??? jeez this doesn't make any sense now that I think about it lol. He must've been going fast enough to cause damage......

slopes are weird o_O

Good luck on finals Tenki!!

 

[pokemon_legend]

ok I don't use sonic but I secondary him
anyway I've tryed it and I think it would be better just to do the jab lock

 

[Browny]

pfft ive never seen u use sonic lol.